The Rest of Ohio Aviation - 2023

hOMSaR · Sun Jan 01, 2023 1:20 am

Welcome to the Rest of Ohio Aviation thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468521

DeltaRules · Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:20 am

Welcome to the 2023 regional thread for aviation in Ohio (except CLE- more on that later). This is seventh "annual" thread we've had where we've been able to have an ongoing regional hub for the Buckeye State and I'd like to thank everyone for continuing to keep these going and active.

Taking a lap around the state, the Ohio airports with/which could have scheduled service we primarily chat in these threads include:
-CVG (Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport)- DL Hub/Focus City, G4 & F9 Focus City, large DHL/major Amazon Air hub, Endeavor crew base. (Yes, it's in Kentucky, but it's Cincinnati's airport.

)
--LUK (Cincinnati Municipal Lunken Airport)- Home of Ultimate Air Shuttle.
-CMH (John Glenn Columbus International Airport)- Home of NetJets, Republic MX & crew base, Envoy MX base.
--LCK (Rickenbacker International Airport (Columbus))- Rapidly-developing international air cargo/logistics center, also served by G4.
-DAY (James M. Cox Dayton International Airport)- Home of PSA Airlines with a large MX and crew base, also houses an Air Wisconsin MX and F/A base.
-TOL (Toledo Express Airport)- Served by G4.
-CAK (Akron-Canton Airport)- Serves its own region and also acts as a secondary Cleveland airport.
-YNG (Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport)- No scheduled service now, but working on regaining passenger service.
-ILN (Wilmington Air Park)- Home of ABX/ATSG, Phoenix from the flames hub/sort facility for Amazon Air.
-HTS (Tri-State Airport, Huntington, WV)- Regional airport which serves southern Ohio, located across the Ohio River from Ironton.
-PKB (Mid-Ohio Valley Regional Airport, Parkersburg, WV)- EAS-served regional airport which advertises itself as an airport for Marietta.

While CVG and CMH generate a good bit of the discussion, there's also talk in this thread about the smaller airports, and that's the intended beauty of these threads- a community stream to keep track of what's going on in and around the state. If you find something interesting about a non-commercially served airport, again, share it! In recent years, we've also "adopted" airports in West Virginia which are a stone's throw from Ohio (HTS and PKB).

Previous threads:
-2022: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468521
-2021: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1455993
-2020: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437963
-2019: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411841
-2018- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382407&hilit=cle
-2017- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1351523
-Part 5- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607803

The reason we don't specifically include CLE in this series of threads is they've long had their own discussion (and, if memory serves, theirs came first and this was a response/supplement to that for the other airports). The newest CLE thread isn't up as of the time of this post, but if you'd like to chat CLE here, however, feel free!

brooklynchris13 · Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:50 am

Happy New Year everyone. And thank you DeltaRules for getting us started. May this year bring more passengers, more destinations, and more flights for all of the Airports and communities we call home. On a personal note, I am happy to share that it appears a new position at work will mean more flying for me as well as more opportunities for leisure travel, starting on Tuesday with an LGA flight. Thanks to everyone for the insight, wisdom, guesses, and everything else you share here. May 023 bring us all peace, joy, happiness, and TATL service at CMH!

brooklynchris13 · Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:52 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
Happy New Year everyone. And thank you DeltaRules for getting us started. May this year bring more passengers, more destinations, and more flights for all of the Airports and communities we call home. On a personal note, I am happy to share that it appears a new position at work will mean more flying for me as well as more opportunities for leisure travel, starting on Tuesday with an LGA flight.
Thanks to everyone for the insight, wisdom, guesses, and everything else you share here. And finally, I hope 2023 bring us all peace, joy, happiness, and TATL service at CMH!

CMHtraveler · Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:46 pm

Thank you DeltaRules for your excellent thread summary as always. Thought I’d check in on my CMH summary and wishlist items from January of last year:

AA- BOS and seasonal CUN added in 2021 and resumed JFK. Nothing new planned as far as we know. Wishlist item: I hope they will bring back LAX at some point in 2022.

Outcome: Still no LAX (wishlist item again), but a big boost in mainline (particularly to CLT/PHL) and no more 50-seaters in the schedule come spring. BOS and seasonal CUN going strong.

AC - YYZ returned in 2021. Nothing new planned currently. Wishlist item: YYZ goes at least 2x daily, seems likely at some point this summer.

Outcome:

AS - SEA went less than daily for winter. SEA 2x daily planned for summer 2022. Wishlist item: AS begins LAX with AA codeshare if AA doesn’t bring it back themselves, seems very unlikely as they serve very little east of the Mississippi from LAX.

Outcome: Nothing additional from AS this year but SEA upguaged to the 9MAX and 2x daily once again on the schedule for summer. Maybe they take a shot at LAX, SAN, or PDX at some point but seems very unlikely unless they do so at all midwest stations.

DL - Formally cut seasonal CUN and SLC in 2021, returned to JFK and BOS. Wishlist item: Return of SLC, but seems unlikely unless business traffic rebounds unexpectedly.

Outcome: No SLC, but everyone on that thread is predicting it comes back this year with airport construction complete. Would also be nice to see MSP upguaged to more/all mainline with SY entering the market.

F9 - Nothing added or cut in 2021. Announced the start of CUN and TPA in early 2022. Wishlist item: CUN sticks, good to see Mexico service more than 1x weekly.

Outcome: Surprise surprise, didn’t stick. Seems like F9 at CMH is always going to be DEN and MCO plus random dartboard routes for a few months at a time.

MX - Started a host of routes in 2021. Cut ORF at least temporarily. Plans to start PBI in 2022. Wishlist item: Introduction of A220s brings at least one unserved west coast route such as SAN.

Outcome: Fits and starts, but some interesting plans for 2023. A west coast route was indeed announced, but not sure Orange County gets the checkmark as LAX is served by NK. Why don’t they try SAN or SAT?

NK - began LAX and PNS. Plan to resume MSY in 2022. Wishlist item: Can’t ask for much more but maybe 2x to LAX this summer if no one else hops on the route?

Outcome: big surprising cutback from the COVID expansion period due to pilot shortage, future uncertain with future B6 merger. MSY never restarted, but they remain the only option to LAX right now. Wishlist item is that all or the current routes stick around, whatever comes next.

WN - Returned DCA, HOU, and STL service in 2021. Big frequency increases planned for 2022 plus daily AUS in March. Wishlist item: Again, hard to envision much more but a return to OAK would be nice if UA doesn’t resume SFO.

Outcome: AUS seems to be doing well. Let’s keep the frequency restorations coming in 2023! West coast markets also remain elusive, maybe they take a shot at LAX or SAN?

UA - Added seasonal leisure routes like HHH, PWM, and RSW in 2021 Pushed back SFO repeatedly with a return in 2022 looking increasingly unlikely. Wishlist item: Bring back SFO. Also worth noting they experimented with mainline on many routes. Would be nice if IAH mainline stuck.

Outcome: SFO - . IAH (and more) mainline - . COVID-era summer leisure routes are gone but I’ll take daily SFO any day of the week. Could we see upguages or an additional frequency on this route in 2023 with the massive Intel project ramping up?

New entrants - B6 looks unlikely this coming year with AA adding BOS as part of the NEA. I Was convinced by quite a few posters on this thread that SY to MSP is a real possibility.

Outcome: SY - (thank you Crew and MLS charter contract), B6 - ?

Overall, the new lounge and new retail outlets are nice steps forward. No more ghost town to be sure. I don’t foresee TATL for a few more years but it should be an exciting year at CMH with traffic rebounding and a glimpse of the future new terminal imminent.

Have a wonderful new year everyone!

StuckinCMHland · Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:55 pm

Happy New year to everyone!

Glad to see the new thread again.

Wishes for CMH in 2023:

1. More progress on new terminal building.
2. Good news of International travel.
3. the chance to fly more often!

jplatts · Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:00 pm

Predictions for CVG in 2023:

AA adds CVG-LAX nonstop service
AA upgauging more flights out of CVG from regional jets to mainline
UA upgauging the remaining UA Express CVG-ORD/IAD nonstop flights that are still operated on 50-seat regional jets to bigger planes
WN increases CVG-MCO/PHX from Saturday-only nonstop service to daily nonstop service
WN resumes CVG-HOU nonstop service
G4 adds CVG-HOU nonstop service
CVG-SAN nonstop service is added by AS, G4, or MX

Predictions for CMH in 2023:

AA or DL resumes CMH-LAX nonstop service
WN CMH-DCA nonstop service increased from 1 daily nonstop to 2 daily nonstops due to the GSA contract that WN has on the CMH-DCA route through at least 9/30/2023
CMH-SAN nonstop service added by AS, MX, or WN
NK adds CMH-IAH nonstop service
F9 or MX adds CMH-LAS nonstop service

Predictions for DAY in 2023:

AA upgauges some of its DAY-DFW nonstop flights to mainline
DL resumes DAY-DTW/MSP nonstop service
UA resumes DAY-DEN nonstop service
G4 adds DAY-FLL/SRQ/SAV nonstop service
XP adds DAY-TPA nonstop service

jplatts · Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:38 am

There was a recent discussion regarding the future of DL's presence at CVG at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1478959.

If DL were to re-add CVG-DFW/IAH nonstop service, DL would likely re-add CVG-DFW/IAH on DL mainline aircraft with all of the DL nonstop flights out of DFW/DAL/IAH/HOU currently being operated on mainline aircraft.

CVG-BOS is the only DL Connection nonstop route that is operated out of CVG by YX, but DL CVG-BOS nonstop service is going to all-mainline starting on 1/10/2023. The other DL Connection nonstop routes out of CVG (CVG-AUS/DTW/MSP/LGA/JFK/EWR/DCA) are operated by 9E.

Of the markets that have lost DL nonstop service out of CVG in the last 3 years, BWI/CLT/ORD/BDL/MCI/RDU/STL still have some 9E-operated DL Connection nonstop flights (mostly to LGA/JFK plus RDU-AUS/EWR/DCA).

PHL doesn't currently have any 9E-operated DL Connection nonstop flights, but YX operates DL Connection PHL-BOS nonstop flights. PHL-BOS is also the only remaining DL Connection nonstop route out of PHL, and all of the other DL nonstop flights out of PHL are on DL mainline.

The majority of the current DL mainline nonstop flights out of CVG are on 160-seat Boeing 737-800 or larger aircraft. CVG-BOS/MSP are also the only DL nonstop routes out of CVG that have DL mainline nonstop flights on planes smaller than 157-seat A320's with DL going to be operating 109-seat A220-100's on CVG-BOS starting on 1/10/2023 and DL going to be operating 132-seat A319's on some of its CVG-MSP nonstop flights in Summer 2023.

WN can likely more easily make CVG-DAL/HOU nonstop service work than DL could on CVG-DFW/IAH on DL mainline with WN able to use 143-seat 737-700's on CVG-DAL/HOU whereas DL would likely need to use 160-seat 737-800's or larger planes on CVG-DFW/IAH. WN also has hubs at both DAL and HOU along with a significant WN FF base in Texas to support WN CVG-DAL nonstop service and the return of WN CVG-HOU nonstop service.

There would also be connecting opportunities through DAL/HOU from CVG on WN if WN CVG-DAL/HOU nonstop service is added whereas DL would mostly be limited to CVG-DFW/IAH O&D if DL CVG-DFW/IAH nonstop service is re-added.

a320flyer · Mon Jan 02, 2023 4:25 am

There's virtually zero chance DL will re-add any of the regional routes as mainline. If any of these return, they will be on a CR9 for the 9E pilot base. DFW/ORD/RDU are the obvious choices (IAH could maybe make the cut), while the rest are likely too dependent on business demand. I'd assume a mainline CVG-MIA is a matter of when, not if, while CVG-CUN/PHX/SFO (also mainline) could return as well with nearly 100 mainline aircraft coming in this year. We'll have to see how quickly they are able to add capacity back to the core hubs.

I'd say the most likely returns are:
CVG-MIA/CUN/PHX/SFO (mainline)
CVG-DFW/ORD/RDU/IAH (regional)

Would be nice to see more than that, but some of the RJ routes had pretty low loads even before COVID. Even the above are stretches given that most are AA/UA hubs. I'd be happy if we even keep what they are flying now...

flyCMH · Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:13 am

CMHtraveler wrote:
Thank you DeltaRules for your excellent thread summary as always. Thought I’d check in on my CMH summary and wishlist items from January of last year:

Really great roundup of the previous year's list and what actually started, along with desires for 2023. Once again, my crystal ball mirrors yours nearly exactly. Below is what I wrote for last year and my hopes for 2023:

2022: AA - would love to see LAX added back as well a new nonstop to AUS. Hope the mainline upgauges continue to CLT and MIA through the year.

2023: no LAX or RDU in 2022, unfortunately. I'd also add RDU to the wishlist for 2023. However, with recent developments in the AA route network, I don't think adding P2P from CMH ranks very high on their priority list. That being said, I'm very pleased with the AA mainline upgauges seen throughout last year and hope they continue in 2023.

2022: AC - hope to see the route go to 2x daily in 2022.

2023: really glad to see AC back to pre-pandemic levels, despite a really tough summer operationally. Hope they continue to maintain in 2023.

AS - good to see the route go double-daily this summer. Would really like to see CMH-PDX added, at least seasonally, in lieu of a second SEA flight.

2023: so double daily only happened for a week or two in 2022, but seems to be a sure thing for this year. It'll be nice having both a morning and an evening option to the PNW. Anything other than SEA is an extreme long shot and would likely come along with a larger expansion of West Coast to East of the Mississippi by AS.

2022: DL - really bummed about the SLC cuts. Hopefully as 2022 rolls along, they find a way to bring SLC-CMH and other route back to the network. Not too confident we'll see CMH-RDU/LAX/SEA/CUN come back in 2022, if ever. Year-round mainline to MSP and the return of mainline DTW, at least seasonally, would be nice.

2023: Delta from CMH, along with most Midwest cities, was a disappointment in 2022. We did end up seeing mainline pop up to MSP and DTW for a few months and it looks like more solid mainline schedules to MSP are upcoming in 2023. With terminal construction nearing completion in SLC and LAX, it'd be nice to see both routes return from CMH in 2023. For existing service, I wish DL would bless us with a 757 to ATL, but they seem firmly committed to not sending anything bigger than a 739 to CMH. Additional frequencies to DTW would also be appreciated.

2022: F9 - glad they're adding something from CMH after years of route cuts and stagnation. Really hoping the TPA and CUN flights are successful. I'd really like to see more frequency from them: daily to DEN and MCO along with 4x weekly TPA and 2x weekly CUN would be nice.

2023: really bummed F9 can't seem to make anything work from CMH except DEN and MCO - and even those routes are served sporadically. The times I've seen them boarding or checking in, flights are full. Still holding out hope for more consistent service from them and maybe an attempt at an additional route in 2023.

2022: MX - lots of opportunities from Breeze in 2022. I hope their current network from CMH sticks and continues to grow. Similar to F9, additional frequencies to their current list of cities would be optimal, assuming the market can support it. I like the idea of the 220's allowing them to do a west coast jaunt from CMH. SAN, OAK, and PDX would be at the top of the list for me.

2023: Breeze has certainly had a lot of ups and downs in 2023. I love the bullish schedule they have in store for the summer. Hopefully these routes stick and they can build a solid flight schedule from CMH. Not really sure what else I'd like to see then fly...it would be nice if ORF could come back.

2022: NK - really happy with their growth since being introduced to the market. Not really seeing additional markets in 2022, but similar to F9 and MX, would like to see current cities that aren't daily already brought up to daily or near-daily schedules.

2023: NK will be tough to tell as they navigate their intended merger with jetBlue. Hoping for status quo with maintaining daily LAS and LAX along with seasonal Florida increases for Spring Break.

2022 WN - very satisfied with their commitment to the market. I'd like to see them do CMH-MCI and return CMH-OAK, but both markets probably aren't quite there yet as business traffic remains subdued and new terminal construction continues at MCI.

2023: too bad Southwest finished the year so dismally. They really did well not only re-establishing service, but AUS was a big add/success for the year. Their summer schedule looks excellent as far as destinations and frequencies. Similar to last year, hopeful for an MCI frequency once the new terminal development allows for it.

2022: UA - fingers crossed for a return of CMH-SFO in 2022. With transpac traffic still depressed, it's going to be hard for that one to come back without it. In the meantime, hoping CMH-DEN all-mainline continues along with consistent mainline adds to other hubs, particularly IAH.

2023: never though WN would be a bright spot from CMH. Daily flights returned to SFO and mainline now dominates the schedule. Really not too much more to want from the airline in 2023 except for additional frequencies (it really irks me how they'll randomly take away the early morning IAD flight for no reason).

2022: New entrants - as much as I'd like to see them in CMH, B6 is likely not in the cards for 2022. Likewise I can't see any transatlantic flight out of CMH in 2022 or anytime until more business traffic returns. SY would make a nice addition to the local market with 4x weekly to MSP. Would love to see Contour come in and do something similar as in IND with flights to MKE, BDL, MCI, etc. But with continued depressed business and convention travel, this likely will remain just a dream.

2023: Glad to see SY make a go at the local market. Hopefully they can make it a lucrative addition along with the MLS flying. Can't really see any other potential new entrants to the market, from either CMH or LCK.

The prospects of a transatlantic flight from CMH have basically been eroded away with EI starting CLE and BA starting CVG. The only hope for a flight across the pond would be with a fringe airline. But carriers that fit test bill like Norse or Play or Level are just skimming from huge markets like NYC and MCO to places in Europe. As the markets around us mature, and business continues to recover, maybe there will be a case for a transatlantic flight to CMH.

cmhman · Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:34 am

My hopes/predictions:
New terminal: renderings and options first quarter of year.

AA: continued mainline, maybe mainline to LGA. Return of LAX but doubtful. No new routes unless they take a chance on AUS.

BA: just kidding

DL: more of the same, maybe SLC? Maybe LAX. DL has been disappointing.

AS: double SEA this summer is planned and hope it goes this year. Otherwise nothing else. Just don’t see PDX or other west coast.

SY: hope it to do well and maybe get 4x next year like PIT.

UA: continued mainline to all including EWR. Any chance they add LAX? Would probably hurt SFO. Maybe 2x SFO eventually.

NK: hard to say with the merger coming. Was hoping they’d add more destinations but I’d settle for not losing anymore.

AC: YUL would be cool.

MX: had begun to wonder about them. But seems they’re still committed to trying things. Hope some stick and increase flights.

WN: don’t expect much but would love to see MCI, LAC and OAK. Maybe seasonal SJU.

Happy New Year!

cledaybuck · Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:23 am

jplatts wrote:
Predictions for CVG in 2023:
AA adds CVG-LAX nonstop service
AA upgauging more flights out of CVG from regional jets to mainline
UA upgauging the remaining UA Express CVG-ORD/IAD nonstop flights that are still operated on 50-seat regional jets to bigger planes
WN increases CVG-MCO/PHX from Saturday-only nonstop service to daily nonstop service
WN resumes CVG-HOU nonstop service
G4 adds CVG-HOU nonstop service
CVG-SAN nonstop service is added by AS, G4, or MX

Predictions for CMH in 2023:
AA or DL resumes CMH-LAX nonstop service
WN CMH-DCA nonstop service increased from 1 daily nonstop to 2 daily nonstops due to the GSA contract that WN has on the CMH-DCA route through at least 9/30/2023
CMH-SAN nonstop service added by AS, MX, or WN
NK adds CMH-IAH nonstop service
F9 or MX adds CMH-LAS nonstop service

Predictions for DAY in 2023:
AA upgauges some of its DAY-DFW nonstop flights to mainline
DL resumes DAY-DTW/MSP nonstop service
UA resumes DAY-DEN nonstop service
G4 adds DAY-FLL/SRQ/SAV nonstop service
XP adds DAY-TPA nonstop service

This feels more like a wish list than a prediction. We will be lucky if half of this happens.

boscmh · Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:38 am

I'd like to see traffic meet and surpass 2019 levels, it feels like peer airports are there already but CMH is stuck at about 89% - the WN meltdown certainly won't help the december numbers either

Jgsushi · Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:30 pm

Does anyone know if AC is planning on retiring their CRJ200 fleet any time soon? With a relatively small fleet size of 15 and most of them entering their 19th year, I wonder if AC is going to retire them sometime in the next few years. As the pilot shortage rolls in and 50 seaters are slowly disappearing, I wonder what the replacement aircraft would be. The 2X daily frequency suggests they could fill a larger aircraft once a day, maybe with an E175 or something.

DeltaRules · Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:15 am

UA's CMH-ORD goes to 4x mainline late Spring/early Summer per the United Network thread.

flycmh2009 · Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:25 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
UA's CMH-ORD goes to 4x mainline late Spring/early Summer per the United Network thread.

Nice! Hope that becomes permanent. Might be less frequency, but the upgauge to mainline is preferred. Would like to see 1 or 2 mainline frequencies sneak in to/from EWR. And nixing the 50 seat flying from IAD as well. Throwing some random dates in for late spring, seeing some higher frequencies with more regional flying (specifically YX) to PHL, DCA, etc. Interesting to see how things trend going forward.

FlyingRocks · Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:08 am

Jgsushi wrote:
Does anyone know if AC is planning on retiring their CRJ200 fleet any time soon? With a relatively small fleet size of 15 and most of them entering their 19th year, I wonder if AC is going to retire them sometime in the next few years. As the pilot shortage rolls in and 50 seaters are slowly disappearing, I wonder what the replacement aircraft would be. The 2X daily frequency suggests they could fill a larger aircraft once a day, maybe with an E175 or something.

I don't know. However, I could also see the replacement aircraft be a Q400, it has two more seats and there are more of them than the E175 in Air Canada express' fleet. I could see these being used 2X daily but probably more so in the summer.

a320flyer · Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:48 pm

FlyingRocks wrote:
Jgsushi wrote:
Does anyone know if AC is planning on retiring their CRJ200 fleet any time soon? With a relatively small fleet size of 15 and most of them entering their 19th year, I wonder if AC is going to retire them sometime in the next few years. As the pilot shortage rolls in and 50 seaters are slowly disappearing, I wonder what the replacement aircraft would be. The 2X daily frequency suggests they could fill a larger aircraft once a day, maybe with an E175 or something.

I don't know. However, I could also see the replacement aircraft be a Q400, it has two more seats and there are more of them than the E175 in Air Canada express' fleet. I could see these being used 2X daily but probably more so in the summer.

CMH-YYZ is going to 2xCR9. They’re doing this in IND as well. CVG/PIT-YYZ are still at 3x/CR2, but likely the same will happen on those eventually as well.

CMHMarc787 · Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:37 pm

a320flyer wrote:
FlyingRocks wrote:
Jgsushi wrote:
Does anyone know if AC is planning on retiring their CRJ200 fleet any time soon? With a relatively small fleet size of 15 and most of them entering their 19th year, I wonder if AC is going to retire them sometime in the next few years. As the pilot shortage rolls in and 50 seaters are slowly disappearing, I wonder what the replacement aircraft would be. The 2X daily frequency suggests they could fill a larger aircraft once a day, maybe with an E175 or something.

I don't know. However, I could also see the replacement aircraft be a Q400, it has two more seats and there are more of them than the E175 in Air Canada express' fleet. I could see these being used 2X daily but probably more so in the summer.

CMH-YYZ is going to 2xCR9. They’re doing this in IND as well. CVG/PIT-YYZ are still at 3x/CR2, but likely the same will happen on those eventually as well.

Love that AC is going to the CR9 - welcome to the larger Canadian metal.

Side, yet somewhat relevant, question: Can anyone say why B30 (AC's gate) does not have a jetway? I've always been curious.

DeltaRules · Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:15 am

Cross-posting this link to track schedule changes from the previous thread, courtesy of Midwestindy: https://www.flightsfrom.com/explorer/MS ... 07-16#/BTV

"It updates late, so changes made over the weekend (or even normally 1-2+ weeks in the past) won't be reflected. i.e. You can use it to see what did or didn't change over the weekend or over previous weekends (airlines update over the weekend)."

CMHMarc787 wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
FlyingRocks wrote:

I don't know. However, I could also see the replacement aircraft be a Q400, it has two more seats and there are more of them than the E175 in Air Canada express' fleet. I could see these being used 2X daily but probably more so in the summer.

CMH-YYZ is going to 2xCR9. They’re doing this in IND as well. CVG/PIT-YYZ are still at 3x/CR2, but likely the same will happen on those eventually as well.

Love that AC is going to the CR9 - welcome to the larger Canadian metal.

Side, yet somewhat relevant, question: Can anyone say why B30 (AC's gate) does not have a jetway? I've always been curious.

Good to hear about AC- looking forward to seeing the CR9s in town. Not sure about B30- FlyCMH?

flyCMH · Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:49 am

"Gate" B30 is only a stairwell leading rampside. It shares a boarding area with B29 and B31, which have bridges attached. I don't think there's room to install a bridge at where the B30 stand is located without taking from B29, which can swing between 2 lead-in lines. I guess AC has been fine keeping the ground-level boarding via the B30 stairwell rather than lease/share another open gate.

Jgsushi · Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:21 pm

a320flyer wrote:
FlyingRocks wrote:
Jgsushi wrote:
Does anyone know if AC is planning on retiring their CRJ200 fleet any time soon? With a relatively small fleet size of 15 and most of them entering their 19th year, I wonder if AC is going to retire them sometime in the next few years. As the pilot shortage rolls in and 50 seaters are slowly disappearing, I wonder what the replacement aircraft would be. The 2X daily frequency suggests they could fill a larger aircraft once a day, maybe with an E175 or something.

I don't know. However, I could also see the replacement aircraft be a Q400, it has two more seats and there are more of them than the E175 in Air Canada express' fleet. I could see these being used 2X daily but probably more so in the summer.

CMH-YYZ is going to 2xCR9. They’re doing this in IND as well. CVG/PIT-YYZ are still at 3x/CR2, but likely the same will happen on those eventually as well.

If true, that’s exciting! Do you have a link or some source we can look at?

a320flyer · Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:01 pm

Jgsushi wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
FlyingRocks wrote:

I don't know. However, I could also see the replacement aircraft be a Q400, it has two more seats and there are more of them than the E175 in Air Canada express' fleet. I could see these being used 2X daily but probably more so in the summer.

CMH-YYZ is going to 2xCR9. They’re doing this in IND as well. CVG/PIT-YYZ are still at 3x/CR2, but likely the same will happen on those eventually as well.

If true, that’s exciting! Do you have a link or some source we can look at?

Already loaded in their schedule, begins May 1, 2023.

Jshank83 · Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:52 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Jgsushi wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
CMH-YYZ is going to 2xCR9. They’re doing this in IND as well. CVG/PIT-YYZ are still at 3x/CR2, but likely the same will happen on those eventually as well.

If true, that’s exciting! Do you have a link or some source we can look at?

Already loaded in their schedule, begins May 1, 2023.

I’m seeing 1x900 and 1x200

Jgsushi · Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:42 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
Jgsushi wrote:
If true, that’s exciting! Do you have a link or some source we can look at?

Already loaded in their schedule, begins May 1, 2023.

I’m seeing 1x900 and 1x200

That would mean 24 fewer seats per day than the 3X CRJ2 CMH normally sees. The CRJ9s generally have better seats and some in flight entertainment, however, so perhaps it’s for the better.

yoshoward12 · Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:17 pm

cmhman wrote:
My hopes/predictions:
New terminal: renderings and options first quarter of year.

AA: continued mainline, maybe mainline to LGA. Return of LAX but doubtful. No new routes unless they take a chance on AUS.

BA: just kidding

DL: more of the same, maybe SLC? Maybe LAX. DL has been disappointing.

AS: double SEA this summer is planned and hope it goes this year. Otherwise nothing else. Just don’t see PDX or other west coast.

SY: hope it to do well and maybe get 4x next year like PIT.

UA: continued mainline to all including EWR. Any chance they add LAX? Would probably hurt SFO. Maybe 2x SFO eventually.

NK: hard to say with the merger coming. Was hoping they’d add more destinations but I’d settle for not losing anymore.

AC: YUL would be cool.

MX: had begun to wonder about them. But seems they’re still committed to trying things. Hope some stick and increase flights.

WN: don’t expect much but would love to see MCI, LAC and OAK. Maybe seasonal SJU.

Happy New Year!

Unfortunately, I do not think United would do CMH-LAX. Any aircraft would be better utilized flying to a hub, and connecting. United doesn’t really mess with eastern mid-sized cities to LAX routes (there are a few exceptions like BWI). Any hope would lie within DL or AA, but with Spirit flying to LAX now, they may have captured a nice chunk of the market, although an AA A319 would be nice.

As far as Breeze is concerned, I think they just have a lot of capital and just like to just try things out, but I personally don’t take them seriously.

jplatts · Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:20 pm

yoshoward12 wrote:
Unfortunately, I do not think United would do CMH-LAX. Any aircraft would be better utilized flying to a hub, and connecting. United doesn’t really mess with eastern mid-sized cities to LAX routes (there are a few exceptions like BWI).

I agree that UA is unlikely to add CMH-LAX nonstop service with ORD and CLE being the only Midwest cities that currently have UA nonstop service to LAX.

If UA were to add nonstop service to LAX from additional Midwest cities, it would most likely be from Midwest cities west of Chicago such as MCI, MSN, and STL.

jplatts · Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:51 pm

DAY can likely support XP nonstop service to BWI with FL/WN having a good amount of O&D traffic on DAY-BWI nonstop flights back when FL/WN served BWI nonstop from DAY.

The O&D PDEW of DAY-BWI was 86 passengers/day in 2015 (the last full year of WN DAY-BWI nonstop service), but WN was offering connections to more markets through BWI from DAY than FL did prior to the WN-FL merger.

The O&D PDEW of DAY-BWI was 124 passengers/day back in 2013 when DAY-BWI nonstop service was still being operated on AirTran metal.

There are also only a handful of markets in the contiguous U.S. with stronger O&D demand to the Baltimore/Washington region than DAY-DCA/IAD/BWI that doesn't currently have WN nonstop service to BWI such as BTV, DSM, ELP, HSV, TYS, PDX, SMF, SFO/OAK/SJC, and SEA.

XP adding DAY-BWI nonstop service would also likely lead to lower fares on AA DAY-DCA nonstop flights.

CMHtraveler · Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:38 pm

Agenda is out for next week’s CRAA board meeting. Sadly not much to look at visually regarding the new terminal, however there is some progress evident from the resolutions going before the Board:

- A firm has been selected for project management (Jacobsen/Daniels who have been hired for a lot of big airport projects including ORD modernization and DTW expansion).

- Land is being sold to Avis to move their service center at CMH, which currently sits in the new terminal footprint. This is part of what the Board resolution describes as a “phased clearing” of the area.

Shouldn’t be too long before we get a look at what is being planned!

https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 4-2023.pdf

flyCMH · Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:54 pm

CRAA board minutes are out with 2022 total: 7.46 million pax through CMH and 293,000 pax through LCK for a combined total of 7.75 million.

https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 4-2023.pdf

CBF article reporting the CRAA numbers:

John Glenn Columbus International, Rickenbacker airports saw passenger traffic increase in 2022

By Amanda Tonoli – Staff reporter , Columbus Business First
Jan 24, 2023 Updated Jan 24, 2023, 2:28pm EST

Air traffic through Columbus is continuing to climb toward pre-pandemic levels.

In 2022, John Glenn Columbus International Airport and Rickenbacker International Airport's passenger terminal saw an estimated 7.75 million passengers, a 27% increase over 2021's 6.12 million passengers, according to the Columbus Regional Airport Authority.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... rease.html

DeltaRules · Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:30 am

flyCMH wrote:
CRAA board minutes are out with 2022 total: 7.46 million pax through CMH and 293,000 pax through LCK for a combined total of 7.75 million.

https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 4-2023.pdf

CBF article reporting the CRAA numbers:

John Glenn Columbus International, Rickenbacker airports saw passenger traffic increase in 2022

By Amanda Tonoli – Staff reporter , Columbus Business First
Jan 24, 2023 Updated Jan 24, 2023, 2:28pm EST

Air traffic through Columbus is continuing to climb toward pre-pandemic levels.

In 2022, John Glenn Columbus International Airport and Rickenbacker International Airport's passenger terminal saw an estimated 7.75 million passengers, a 27% increase over 2021's 6.12 million passengers, according to the Columbus Regional Airport Authority.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... rease.html

The Air Service Committee finally did something and one of their bullet points is:

"Update on air service announcements, passenger travel volumes and target airlines"

Alright, let's play the game. Besides B6 and XP, who's left? I'd assume at this point they're targeting TATL carriers.

NoTime · Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:56 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
CRAA board minutes are out with 2022 total: 7.46 million pax through CMH and 293,000 pax through LCK for a combined total of 7.75 million.

https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 4-2023.pdf

CBF article reporting the CRAA numbers:

John Glenn Columbus International, Rickenbacker airports saw passenger traffic increase in 2022

By Amanda Tonoli – Staff reporter , Columbus Business First
Jan 24, 2023 Updated Jan 24, 2023, 2:28pm EST

Air traffic through Columbus is continuing to climb toward pre-pandemic levels.

In 2022, John Glenn Columbus International Airport and Rickenbacker International Airport's passenger terminal saw an estimated 7.75 million passengers, a 27% increase over 2021's 6.12 million passengers, according to the Columbus Regional Airport Authority.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... rease.html

The Air Service Committee finally did something and one of their bullet points is:

"Update on air service announcements, passenger travel volumes and target airlines"

Alright, let's play the game. Besides B6 and XP, who's left? I'd assume at this point they're targeting TATL carriers.

My money would be on B6. If it's TATL, then I guess the usual suspects are in play. But, what about the other direction with Northern Pacific? I haven't kept up with their progress, but I think they're going to start service this year? (And I saw some speculation about possible weekly markets a while back, and I think the usual midwest-non-ORD/DTW airports were in the mix.)

Very, very unlikely, I know...

cmhman · Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:25 pm

I sometimes plane watch at CMH at lunch. I noticed that DL typically parks their 738/9 at C55. Recently though it has been going into C56. Any reason for that? Just curious. The Residnece Inn is a perfect place to watch the north RW. No such good place for the south RW.

CMHtraveler · Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:47 pm

NoTime wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
CRAA board minutes are out with 2022 total: 7.46 million pax through CMH and 293,000 pax through LCK for a combined total of 7.75 million.

https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 4-2023.pdf

CBF article reporting the CRAA numbers:

John Glenn Columbus International, Rickenbacker airports saw passenger traffic increase in 2022

By Amanda Tonoli – Staff reporter , Columbus Business First
Jan 24, 2023 Updated Jan 24, 2023, 2:28pm EST

Air traffic through Columbus is continuing to climb toward pre-pandemic levels.

In 2022, John Glenn Columbus International Airport and Rickenbacker International Airport's passenger terminal saw an estimated 7.75 million passengers, a 27% increase over 2021's 6.12 million passengers, according to the Columbus Regional Airport Authority.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... rease.html

The Air Service Committee finally did something and one of their bullet points is:

"Update on air service announcements, passenger travel volumes and target airlines"

Alright, let's play the game. Besides B6 and XP, who's left? I'd assume at this point they're targeting TATL carriers.

My money would be on B6. If it's TATL, then I guess the usual suspects are in play. But, what about the other direction with Northern Pacific? I haven't kept up with their progress, but I think they're going to start service this year? (And I saw some speculation about possible weekly markets a while back, and I think the usual midwest-non-ORD/DTW airports were in the mix.)

Very, very unlikely, I know...

They will always be talking TATL with the likes of BA and the Atlantic ULCCs, but it is probably going to require a few more years of growth before anyone bites (particularly with the CVG announcement). The region is growing quickly, it’s just a matter of time.

As far as B6, I think the best bet for CMH is that the merger is approved with NK and they keep LAX, and maybe take over BOS from AA depending on what happens with required NEA divestments. Encouragingly, NK bumped CMH-LAX back up to daily for next month after initially cutting it to 4x weekly.

CVGspottekass · Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:21 am

I noticed that CVG to Seattle is no longer 2x daily on Alaska and Delta this summer instead it is 1x a day on both carriers which is unfortunate.

CMHtraveler · Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:31 pm

CMH social media put up a promo for the Vacation Express flights to CUN Sundays beginning Feb 19. Does anyone know who is running those this year? Is it Viva Aerobus again? Interesting that they continue to return with AA and WN both on the route seasonally.

flyCMH · Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:06 am

CMHtraveler wrote:
CMH social media put up a promo for the Vacation Express flights to CUN Sundays beginning Feb 19. Does anyone know who is running those this year? Is it Viva Aerobus again? Interesting that they continue to return with AA and WN both on the route seasonally.

I saw that too. Just tried to book a trip via their website and the service will indeed be provided by Viva Aerobus. It is nice to see this service constantly resume. Too bad F9 couldn't make the route work with their twice weekly service.

CMHtraveler · Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:08 am

flyCMH wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
CMH social media put up a promo for the Vacation Express flights to CUN Sundays beginning Feb 19. Does anyone know who is running those this year? Is it Viva Aerobus again? Interesting that they continue to return with AA and WN both on the route seasonally.

I saw that too. Just tried to book a trip via their website and the service will indeed be provided by Viva Aerobus. It is nice to see this service constantly resume. Too bad F9 couldn't make the route work with their twice weekly service.

Agreed about F9, but I will say it’s nice to see the Viva Aerobus planes parked at C terminal on weekends, something a bit different!

Jshank83 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:15 am

flyCMH wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
CMH social media put up a promo for the Vacation Express flights to CUN Sundays beginning Feb 19. Does anyone know who is running those this year? Is it Viva Aerobus again? Interesting that they continue to return with AA and WN both on the route seasonally.

I saw that too. Just tried to book a trip via their website and the service will indeed be provided by Viva Aerobus. It is nice to see this service constantly resume. Too bad F9 couldn't make the route work with their twice weekly service.

Vacation express lists all their charter flights/carriers on their website under flight schedule

https://www.vacationexpress.com/flight-schedule/

cmhman · Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:14 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
CMH social media put up a promo for the Vacation Express flights to CUN Sundays beginning Feb 19. Does anyone know who is running those this year? Is it Viva Aerobus again? Interesting that they continue to return with AA and WN both on the route seasonally.

CVG has 4 destinations via Vacation Express. Wow. CMH just gets the one.

flyCMH · Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:46 pm

cmhman wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
CMH social media put up a promo for the Vacation Express flights to CUN Sundays beginning Feb 19. Does anyone know who is running those this year? Is it Viva Aerobus again? Interesting that they continue to return with AA and WN both on the route seasonally.

CVG has 4 destinations via Vacation Express. Wow. CMH just gets the one.

Interestingly, that's how it's been historically since Apple Vacation ran a lot of the charters to international warm weather destinations. CMH-CUN has only ever been 1x weekly as long as I can remember. CVG and CLE always had more charters going to CUN, PUJ, and I think additional destinations in the Caribbean and Mexico such as MBJ and PVR. USA3000 took over a lot of those flights and sold seats to Apple and, after they folded, I think they've been going to airlines like F9, VB, etc. for their vacation packages.

flyCMH · Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:51 pm

Heads up, CMH spotters. Delta upgauged a ATL-CMH-ATL turn for today from a 739 to a 752:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KCMH

Still wishing they'd grace us with a 757 on a regular basis, but understand that realistically probably won't happen.

ChasChandler · Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:15 pm

flyCMH wrote:
Heads up, CMH spotters. Delta upgauged a ATL-CMH-ATL turn for today from a 739 to a 752:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KCMH

Still wishing they'd grace us with a 757 on a regular basis, but understand that realistically probably won't happen.

757 is my favorite plane. Overpowered to the max and the sound those engines make on take off is unforgettably beautiful.

plinth857 · Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:26 pm

Flying out of CAK tomorrow for the first time since the pandemic. I'm glad CAK has some GSA City Pair contracts; it's a decent alternative to CLE when the GSA contract results in a carrier with sub-optimal options out of CLE.

Is there still an open Great Lakes Brewing Company location out there? I may go early if there is.

brn2Bwld92 · Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:27 pm

flyCMH wrote:
Heads up, CMH spotters. Delta upgauged a ATL-CMH-ATL turn for today from a 739 to a 752:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KCMH

Still wishing they'd grace us with a 757 on a regular basis, but understand that realistically probably won't happen.

Wondering if that's because DL2767 from this morning still has yet to depart and they needed to get pax to ATL. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KCMH/KATL

SgtBarone · Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:45 pm

plinth857 wrote:
Flying out of CAK tomorrow for the first time since the pandemic. I'm glad CAK has some GSA City Pair contracts; it's a decent alternative to CLE when the GSA contract results in a carrier with sub-optimal options out of CLE.

Is there still an open Great Lakes Brewing Company location out there? I may go early if there is.

Yes, it either opens at 11 AM or 12 PM depending on the day. There's also a Royal Docks taproom that opens at 8 AM.

DeltaRules · Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:35 pm

flyCMH wrote:
Heads up, CMH spotters. Delta upgauged a ATL-CMH-ATL turn for today from a 739 to a 752:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KCMH

Still wishing they'd grace us with a 757 on a regular basis, but understand that realistically probably won't happen.

I still don't understand how CMH doesn't get them and places like ORF and RIC do.

cmhman · Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:08 pm

flyCMH wrote:
Heads up, CMH spotters. Delta upgauged a ATL-CMH-ATL turn for today from a 739 to a 752:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KCMH

Still wishing they'd grace us with a 757 on a regular basis, but understand that realistically probably won't happen.

Saw it on approach. Wasn't sure what it was, but knew it was bigger than what we normally see.

ChasChandler · Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:11 pm

Not directly CMH related, but there was a video on A.Net showing the new Kansas City terminal set to open up soon and I'll bet it's within a percent or two of what CMH will look like. If you're interested, the new terminal part of the video starts around 9:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHLwPdUA0q0

beertrucker · Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:21 am

ChasChandler wrote:
Not directly CMH related, but there was a video on A.Net showing the new Kansas City terminal set to open up soon and I'll bet it's within a percent or two of what CMH will look like. If you're interested, the new terminal part of the video starts around 9:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHLwPdUA0q0

How many gates are they calling for at CMH?

I also would assume they will mix in some wide body gates for charters or subs or possible international flights airlines. I remember the original idea was just a one year two sided concourse. I am really looking forward to see what they come up with. Even if they pick one I hope we can see the ideas that were rejected. Just for fun to see what the option were they picked from.

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