Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
PB26 wrote:I think, some japanese may correct me, HND is more business-like and focused in catch domestic connection whose went to other hubs, i.e ICN. NRT would become more connections and home of hybrid subsidiaries Air Japan and Zip Air.
PoorSailorsAir wrote:Is anyone able to summarize how ANA and JAL utilize NRT / HND in the post pandemic world?
I noticed starting this summer both carriers are flying JFK-HND 2X daily with no flight to NRT. JAL looks to be dropping ORD-NRT, while keeping ORD-HND.
With HND opening up to more international flights over the years, are they able to flow more international connections there as opposed to Japan O&D traffic?
Lamp1009 wrote:
It's a matter of timing and demand. The Japanese airlines are killing service to major US destinations from NRT right now because demand to China has been really slow to return. With NRT being a connections-focussed airport being an hour away from the city, it just doesn't make sense to fly to both Tokyo airports when demand (especially connecting traffic demand that NRT is focussed on) hasn't really returned. Plus, in addition to the Proximity advantage of Haneda, HND's slots are far more competitive than NRT's, and carriers have an incentive to use them or lose them
chunhimlai wrote:https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/7cb6fd8dfc2889541c854628fe855999f51f0ec1
(Japan)
Narita Airport Corporation consider building a single terminal to consolidate the existed 3 terminals.
Lamp1009 wrote:PoorSailorsAir wrote:Is anyone able to summarize how ANA and JAL utilize NRT / HND in the post pandemic world?
I noticed starting this summer both carriers are flying JFK-HND 2X daily with no flight to NRT. JAL looks to be dropping ORD-NRT, while keeping ORD-HND.
With HND opening up to more international flights over the years, are they able to flow more international connections there as opposed to Japan O&D traffic?
It's a matter of timing and demand. The Japanese airlines are killing service to major US destinations from NRT right now because demand to China has been really slow to return. With NRT being a connections-focussed airport being an hour away from the city, it just doesn't make sense to fly to both Tokyo airports when demand (especially connecting traffic demand that NRT is focussed on) hasn't really returned. Plus, in addition to the Proximity advantage of Haneda, HND's slots are far more competitive than NRT's, and carriers have an incentive to use them or lose them.
NRT flights will return, UA is already planning on bringing back its second LAX flight, DEN flight, and additional GUM flights this year, there's no reason NH won't do the same. I can't imagine JL and AA won't do the same once demand gets to the point where it makes sense to serve both airports.
More long term, I could honestly see the vast majority of flights being moved back to NRT in the future if that preclearance facility gets built. Sure, you lose half an hour getting to Narita over Haneda (more if you're coming from Yokohama or anywhere in Kanagawa prefecture), but you easily regain that time not having to re-clear security in the US, standing in a far worse immigration line at a US airport, and transferring to domestic terminals at many US airports. It would be a huge advantage for the vast majority of people, and I could see Japanese airlines especially pushing their Haneda slots to other destinations if that happened. HND under that scenario may only see service to EWR, ORD, JFK, SFO, LAX, and maybe IAD.
More generally, that preclearance facility really really should be built. Even now or in the near future during this lull of travel between Japan and the US, an insane number of flights happen daily:
HNL — 13 (1*UA, 3*NH, 3*JL, 1*DL, 1*ZG, 4*HA)
KOA — 2 (1*JL, 1*HA) (but seasonal and 3* weekly each)
GUM — 5 (4*UA, 1*JL)
SPN — 1 (1*UA)
LAX — 12 (2*UA, 3*NH, 2*JL, 2*AA, 1*SQ, 1*DL, 1*ZG)
SFO — 6 (2*UA, 2*NH, 2*JL)
SJC — 1 (1*ZG)
SAN — 1 (1*JL)
SEA — 3 (1*DL, 1*NH, 1*JL)
PDX — 1 (1*DL, currently suspended tho)
DEN — 1 (1*UA)
MSP — 1 (1*DL)
ORD — 5 (1*UA, 2*NH, 1*JL)
DFW — 3 (2*AA, 1*JL)
IAH — 2 (1*UA, 1*NH)
DTW — 1 (1*DL)
BOS — 1 (1*JAL)
EWR — 2 (2*UA)
JFK — 4 (2*NH, 2*JL)
IAD — 2 (1*UA, 1*NH)
ATL — 1 (1*DL)
While these are maxes for each route, this is still nearly 68 wide bodies of daily flights to the US...nearly 20K daily passengers each way. I don't know if there's any other city on earth outside of those in Canada or London UK that sees this many flights to the US
flyguy1 wrote:Lamp1009 wrote:PoorSailorsAir wrote:Is anyone able to summarize how ANA and JAL utilize NRT / HND in the post pandemic world?
I noticed starting this summer both carriers are flying JFK-HND 2X daily with no flight to NRT. JAL looks to be dropping ORD-NRT, while keeping ORD-HND.
With HND opening up to more international flights over the years, are they able to flow more international connections there as opposed to Japan O&D traffic?
It's a matter of timing and demand. The Japanese airlines are killing service to major US destinations from NRT right now because demand to China has been really slow to return. With NRT being a connections-focussed airport being an hour away from the city, it just doesn't make sense to fly to both Tokyo airports when demand (especially connecting traffic demand that NRT is focussed on) hasn't really returned. Plus, in addition to the Proximity advantage of Haneda, HND's slots are far more competitive than NRT's, and carriers have an incentive to use them or lose them.
NRT flights will return, UA is already planning on bringing back its second LAX flight, DEN flight, and additional GUM flights this year, there's no reason NH won't do the same. I can't imagine JL and AA won't do the same once demand gets to the point where it makes sense to serve both airports.
More long term, I could honestly see the vast majority of flights being moved back to NRT in the future if that preclearance facility gets built. Sure, you lose half an hour getting to Narita over Haneda (more if you're coming from Yokohama or anywhere in Kanagawa prefecture), but you easily regain that time not having to re-clear security in the US, standing in a far worse immigration line at a US airport, and transferring to domestic terminals at many US airports. It would be a huge advantage for the vast majority of people, and I could see Japanese airlines especially pushing their Haneda slots to other destinations if that happened. HND under that scenario may only see service to EWR, ORD, JFK, SFO, LAX, and maybe IAD.
More generally, that preclearance facility really really should be built. Even now or in the near future during this lull of travel between Japan and the US, an insane number of flights happen daily:
HNL — 13 (1*UA, 3*NH, 3*JL, 1*DL, 1*ZG, 4*HA)
KOA — 2 (1*JL, 1*HA) (but seasonal and 3* weekly each)
GUM — 5 (4*UA, 1*JL)
SPN — 1 (1*UA)
LAX — 12 (2*UA, 3*NH, 2*JL, 2*AA, 1*SQ, 1*DL, 1*ZG)
SFO — 6 (2*UA, 2*NH, 2*JL)
SJC — 1 (1*ZG)
SAN — 1 (1*JL)
SEA — 3 (1*DL, 1*NH, 1*JL)
PDX — 1 (1*DL, currently suspended tho)
DEN — 1 (1*UA)
MSP — 1 (1*DL)
ORD — 5 (1*UA, 2*NH, 1*JL)
DFW — 3 (2*AA, 1*JL)
IAH — 2 (1*UA, 1*NH)
DTW — 1 (1*DL)
BOS — 1 (1*JAL)
EWR — 2 (2*UA)
JFK — 4 (2*NH, 2*JL)
IAD — 2 (1*UA, 1*NH)
ATL — 1 (1*DL)
While these are maxes for each route, this is still nearly 68 wide bodies of daily flights to the US...nearly 20K daily passengers each way. I don't know if there's any other city on earth outside of those in Canada or London UK that sees this many flights to the US
Wow, so this might be the first time (ever?) that NRT does not have JFK service? Obviously there was a pause during COVID, but during normal times there has always been at least a few flights per week.
Lamp1009 wrote:More long term, I could honestly see the vast majority of flights being moved back to NRT in the future if that preclearance facility gets built. Sure, you lose half an hour getting to Narita over Haneda (more if you're coming from Yokohama or anywhere in Kanagawa prefecture), but you easily regain that time not having to re-clear security in the US, standing in a far worse immigration line at a US airport, and transferring to domestic terminals at many US airports. It would be a huge advantage for the vast majority of people, and I could see Japanese airlines especially pushing their Haneda slots to other destinations if that happened. HND under that scenario may only see service to EWR, ORD, JFK, SFO, LAX, and maybe IAD.
LondonXtreme wrote:When will NH move the internatinal flights to HND T2? T3 is becoming overcrowded now if NH still stays.
LondonXtreme wrote:When will NH move the internatinal flights to HND T2? T3 is becoming overcrowded now if NH still stays.
Lamp1009 wrote:LondonXtreme wrote:When will NH move the internatinal flights to HND T2? T3 is becoming overcrowded now if NH still stays.
2 questions:
1. T2 has international immigration and customs facilities that are still operable?
2. Why would only NH move? I would assume they'd want their *A partners to also move to T2 if they do as well. AC, UA, EWR, LH, EVA...they all would benefit from being in the same facility. Seems like way too much metal for that terminal.
Lamp1009 wrote:PoorSailorsAir wrote:Is anyone able to summarize how ANA and JAL utilize NRT / HND in the post pandemic world?
I noticed starting this summer both carriers are flying JFK-HND 2X daily with no flight to NRT. JAL looks to be dropping ORD-NRT, while keeping ORD-HND.
With HND opening up to more international flights over the years, are they able to flow more international connections there as opposed to Japan O&D traffic?
It's a matter of timing and demand. The Japanese airlines are killing service to major US destinations from NRT right now because demand to China has been really slow to return. With NRT being a connections-focussed airport being an hour away from the city, it just doesn't make sense to fly to both Tokyo airports when demand (especially connecting traffic demand that NRT is focussed on) hasn't really returned. Plus, in addition to the Proximity advantage of Haneda, HND's slots are far more competitive than NRT's, and carriers have an incentive to use them or lose them.
NRT flights will return, UA is already planning on bringing back its second LAX flight, DEN flight, and additional GUM flights this year, there's no reason NH won't do the same. I can't imagine JL and AA won't do the same once demand gets to the point where it makes sense to serve both airports.
More long term, I could honestly see the vast majority of flights being moved back to NRT in the future if that preclearance facility gets built. Sure, you lose half an hour getting to Narita over Haneda (more if you're coming from Yokohama or anywhere in Kanagawa prefecture), but you easily regain that time not having to re-clear security in the US, standing in a far worse immigration line at a US airport, and transferring to domestic terminals at many US airports. It would be a huge advantage for the vast majority of people, and I could see Japanese airlines especially pushing their Haneda slots to other destinations if that happened. HND under that scenario may only see service to EWR, ORD, JFK, SFO, LAX, and maybe IAD.
More generally, that preclearance facility really really should be built. Even now or in the near future during this lull of travel between Japan and the US, an insane number of flights happen daily:
HNL — 13 (1*UA, 3*NH, 3*JL, 1*DL, 1*ZG, 4*HA)
KOA — 2 (1*JL, 1*HA) (but seasonal and 3* weekly each)
GUM — 5 (4*UA, 1*JL)
SPN — 1 (1*UA)
LAX — 12 (2*UA, 3*NH, 2*JL, 2*AA, 1*SQ, 1*DL, 1*ZG)
SFO — 6 (2*UA, 2*NH, 2*JL)
SJC — 1 (1*ZG)
SAN — 1 (1*JL)
SEA — 3 (1*DL, 1*NH, 1*JL)
PDX — 1 (1*DL, currently suspended tho)
DEN — 1 (1*UA)
MSP — 1 (1*DL)
ORD — 5 (1*UA, 2*NH, 1*JL)
DFW — 3 (2*AA, 1*JL)
IAH — 2 (1*UA, 1*NH)
DTW — 1 (1*DL)
BOS — 1 (1*JAL)
EWR — 2 (2*UA)
JFK — 4 (2*NH, 2*JL)
IAD — 2 (1*UA, 1*NH)
ATL — 1 (1*DL)
While these are maxes for each route, this is still nearly 68 wide bodies of daily flights to the US...nearly 20K daily passengers each way. I don't know if there's any other city on earth outside of those in Canada or London UK that sees this many flights to the US
UPlog wrote:Narita to build a new logistics center.
New 70 hectare facility to be open by 2029.
https://www.aircargonews.net/cargo-airp ... velopment/
LAXdude1023 wrote:Regarding NGO, if DL can't make it work from DTW, no airline can from the 48.
jplatts wrote:LAXdude1023 wrote:Regarding NGO, if DL can't make it work from DTW, no airline can from the 48.
JL might possibly be able to make NGO-SEA nonstop service work due to SEA's geographical location in the northwest corner of the contiguous U.S. along with the connecting feed that JL would have onto NGO-SEA from AA/AS flights.
JL would also be able to capture more Japanese point-of-sale traffic on NGO-SEA than DL could on NGO-DTW due to the partnerships that JL has with AA/AS along with JL having a much bigger FF base in Japan than DL does.
NGO-based JL FF's would also have plenty of options for redeeming JL Mileage Bank miles in the event that JL discontinues NGO-SEA nonstop service, whereas the former DL FF base in Greater Nagoya has limited options for redeeming DL SkyMiles.
LAXintl wrote:JAL posted FY2022 financials.
Like ANA it also returned to profitability, but with a smaller ¥32.7 billion profit.
One announcement today, was after 13-years will get back into widebody freighter game with 3 converted 767s serving East Asia markets from early 2024.
https://www.jal.com/en/investor/library ... rning.html
https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/16532813 ... name=small
TheRedBaron wrote:Fedex Almost Crashed today. due to strong winds
https://twitter.com/Mexnexus/status/165 ... 96738?s=20
TC957 wrote:Virgin Australia to launch CNS - HND flights from 28 June initially with 737-700 VH-VBY & VBZ. Is this a new record for the longest non-Max 737NG service ?
TC957 wrote:Virgin Australia to launch CNS - HND flights from 28 June initially with 737-700 VH-VBY & VBZ. Is this a new record for the longest non-Max 737NG service ?
InnsbruckFlyer wrote:Just curious about the setup ANA has with Air Japan. Seemingly all of their 767s and 787s are operated by Air Japan. Does this mean that Air Japan has a separate pilot pool than ANA? Or is this similar to what Austrian Airlines had a while back with all their aircraft operated by Tyrolean due to a labor dispute? Either way, why does ANA do this?
LAXPolaris wrote:Is it realistic to expect any additional flights between the US and other cities in Japan besides Tokyo? Believe Osaka is the only other city with direct flights (correct me if I’m missing any) and there are a relatively small amount of flights between the US and Osaka. Is there any room for growth here? Say UA to add an additional flight to KIX?
jplatts wrote:LAXPolaris wrote:Is it realistic to expect any additional flights between the US and other cities in Japan besides Tokyo? Believe Osaka is the only other city with direct flights (correct me if I’m missing any) and there are a relatively small amount of flights between the US and Osaka. Is there any room for growth here? Say UA to add an additional flight to KIX?
I previously mentioned the possibility of JL adding SEA-KIX nonstop service with
(a) Kyoto-based Nintendo having its North American headquarters in Redmond, WA,
(b) a few other Japanese companies with their global headquarters in the Kansai region such as Panasonic and Omron having a presence in Greater Seattle,
(c) JL being able to target its FF base in the Kansai region and the AS FF base in the Pacific Northwest, and
(d) the connections that JL would be able to offer onto AS and AA flights out of SEA from SEA-KIX if JL adds SEA-KIX nonstop service.
LAXPolaris wrote:Is it realistic to expect any additional flights between the US and other cities in Japan besides Tokyo? Believe Osaka is the only other city with direct flights (correct me if I’m missing any) and there are a relatively small amount of flights between the US and Osaka. Is there any room for growth here? Say UA to add an additional flight to KIX?
c933103 wrote:LAXPolaris wrote:Is it realistic to expect any additional flights between the US and other cities in Japan besides Tokyo? Believe Osaka is the only other city with direct flights (correct me if I’m missing any) and there are a relatively small amount of flights between the US and Osaka. Is there any room for growth here? Say UA to add an additional flight to KIX?
There's also NGO-DTW
In term of possibility I guess Hokkaido's CTS might have some potential seasonal demand? But how many is that?
LAXintl wrote:Not going to happen. JAL can barely sustain KIX-LAX the largest US mainland Japan market with having reduced it to 3x weekly.
United similarly limps along on SFO-KIX which is often the non-rev dream flight.
c933103 wrote:So since KIX before covid was going to hit capacity restriction and it seems like the trend is resuming, as they planned internationalizing Kobe airport, there are also people who suggested high speed rail connection to Tokushima for Tokushima airport to act as additional relieve capacity for KIX? But isn't Tokushima airport a bit too far away?