I've never flown on a retro livery plane, so I have no first-hand experience of passenger reaction. I get that we enthusiasts think they're cool, but do average passengers get confused they are actually stepping aboard a TWA Airbus or a Reno Air 737? Or do they think a United plane in the old red, white and blue scheme is actually a plane from the 1970s?

Unfortunately, few passengers are aware of the exterior paint of their plane when they board. So many airport gates provide poor views of the aircraft anyway, and very few passengers are watching the aircraft arrive at the gate. At most, 1/3 of the passengers even have a window seat and can see outside; a small fraction of which may notice that the flap fairings or winglets are a different color.
Retro liveries are homages to the past, and sometimes nods to the avgeeks who notice and care. My sister, who has been dragged into the world of aviation by me and is more aware than the average civilian, just noticed last year that Southwest departed from the Canyon Blue scheme to the Heart livery. It's just not something of interest to most.

BWIAirport wrote:

Unfortunately, few passengers are aware of the exterior paint of their plane when they board. So many airport gates provide poor views of the aircraft anyway, and very few passengers are watching the aircraft arrive at the gate. At most, 1/3 of the passengers even have a window seat and can see outside; a small fraction of which may notice that the flap fairings or winglets are a different color.
Retro liveries are homages to the past

I imagine they are also convenient from an IP/trademark perspective.

When I was working as a wheelchair assistant at MSY, we had the AirCal retro pull up to the gate once. I overheard a passenger saying, oh, this must be American's new livery!
She (the passenger) was stunned when I brought up AirCal and how AA bought AirCal all those years ago. Wasn't even aware AirCal existed.

From that interaction, I can only assume there is mild confusion to passengers who do notice, but not much, since she was the only person I heard commenting.

AirCal was ingested in 1987, coming up on 36 years ago, so many flyers hadn't been born yet to know AirCal. PSA, Republic and Western went the previous year, with Allegheny and Piedmont well before that, so it's mostly us long-in-the tooth guys and gals that actually remember these companies. TWA was 2001, so there are people now of legal drinking age that weren't born yet.
I think the AA retrojets are indeed an homage to the company history, but I think more to extend inclusiveness to the employees that came onboard from the predecessor companies. The thing about the RenoAir version, is that it doesn't say RenoAir, as that was billboard on the fuselage. The current Sierra Nevada image on the tail isn't explained.
I'm very happy AA did the retrojet for my Air California/AirCal history, though I wish the fuselage was white, and correct. I flew the lightning bolt Astrojets in 1966, and worked for AA with the red white and blue, with the eagle on the tail, retiring before the current livery came out, so I'm happy with those retrojets as well.

Well let's just hope the airlines continue to bring us enthusiasts these liveries! Some of them are stunning, for example the TAP A321, the ElAl B787 and the Gulf Air B787. Oh and that LH B748 looks pretty amazing too! More please!!

Passengers don't typically notice or care. They're more for employee morale and keeping trademarks active.

Not a retro livery story, but I flew on WN’s Illinois One 738 on Christmas Eve from MDW to PIT a couple weeks ago.
I was quite excited and grabbed a couple pics as it pulled into the gate. Nobody seemed to notice until they saw me pull my phone out to take a picture at which point I noticed a couple other people taking pictures and commenting on the striking livery.
I think most people don’t notice/care but some may find the special and retro liveries interesting once it’s drawn to their attention.

It is not more confusing than when you board a KLM plane after booking your flight on DL website.

I flew ElAls retro 787. The inside was definitely more of a modern airliner than one from the 60s. It's also one of my favorite models in my collection

Not a retro, but I've also flown UAs Star Alliance 777 and 747 and you wouldn't know the difference between those and the same aircraft in the regular livery besides a plaque by the boarding door. Uniteds Star Wars plane however did have a Star Wars interior, but I haven't flown on it.

I flew on AC’s original retrojet a couple of times, the TCA 319 for AC’s 60th anniversary in 1997. I was probably the only one at the gate excited to see it. Interior was identical to any other AC 319 of the era. Thankfully the livery lives on, on one of the 223s. I think I also once caught a ride on the equally spectacular 65th anniversary AC 320. After about 6-7 years it was painted back into the standard livery…but that one wasn’t a retrojet. Hopefully AC do something retro for their 90th in 2027. A mainline double red cheat line 320 would be fitting given there will likely still be a few 320s in AC’s fleet by then. One can dream, but I doubt we’ll ever see an AC 737 In CP Air’s multimark Orange is Beautiful livery…I wonder if they’d need permission from CP Rail in order to do so lol.

I was pleasantly surprised when travelling with my family from Honolulu to Maui to find the Aloha retrojet (the one with the flower power 1960's colours on it) sitting on the concourse and to my amazed surprise it was our aircraft! My family thought my enthusiasm was wonderful but really didn't notice the plane much. I bought a key chain years later made from the scrapped fuselage of said aircraft.

Wingtips56 wrote:

AirCal was ingested in 1987, coming up on 36 years ago, so many flyers hadn't been born yet to know AirCal. PSA, Republic and Western went the previous year, with Allegheny and Piedmont well before that, so it's mostly us long-in-the tooth guys and gals that actually remember these companies. TWA was 2001, so there are people now of legal drinking age that weren't born yet.

Two years after that for Piedmont (into USAir)--1989. And PSA into USAir was the previous year--1988. Western into Delta was '87. Republic into Northwest, '86. Lots of acquisitions in the USA in the second half of the '80s. Ozark into TWA was the other notable one, also '86.

LaunchDetected wrote:

It is not more confusing than when you board a KLM plane after booking your flight on DL website.

Maybe they forgot to read the part that very clearly said “Operated by KLM” in the booking and reservation.

BoeingGuy wrote:

LaunchDetected wrote:

It is not more confusing than when you board a KLM plane after booking your flight on DL website.

Maybe they forgot to read the part that very clearly said “Operated by KLM” in the booking and reservation.

I have a coworker who booked a trip from PDX to LIM via LAX last year and was super confused, almost to the point of missing his flight, that there was nowhere to check in for LATAM at PDX. Bought his flight on Kiwi or something - LATAM operated by DL on the PDX-LAX leg.

He’s smart in a lot of things, but not so much reading the fine print. Hate to know how he’d react to a retro livery if he even noticed.

I flew on the new Herbert D. Kelleher this past Sunday from OGG-SJC. Aside from a few pax in the gate area going “ooooh look a 49ers plane!” it was just another flight on a WN 737.

I was excited though!

I’m always interested if interiors of special logo aircraft’s have plaques etc. I know the UA 320 does…

I’ve flown a few.
DL738/752/764, AF 772, KL 190/739 Skyteam - nothing inside
DL BCRF 764, ACS 764 - nothing inside
Skywest 35th Ann CR9 - had a plaque

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:

I get that we enthusiasts think they're cool, but do average passengers get confused they are actually stepping aboard a TWA Airbus or a Reno Air 737? Or do they think a United plane in the old red, white and blue scheme is actually a plane from the 1970s?

Good question that I had asked myself as well. I even wondered if- as you asked as well- if passengers might think „oh nooo, they want to put us in that old plane!!“

Interesting first hand info about the female passenger who thought it‘s a new livery…

During my first business trip after Corona I was sitting at a gate in Jakarta with three colleagues when a Garuda A 330 with mask on the cone section showed up.


I noticed my colleagues but they just had a quick look before continuing the conversation. Absolutely no interest…

A couple of years back my partner and I flew the British Airways BEA retro jet from LHR-EDI. On this occasion there was not the excuse of nobody could see the plane from the gate as we were using a hard stand and boarding stairs. All the passengers were bussed to the plane and could marvel in its 1960s retro livery. Sadly, I was the only one who was excited, and the long boarding queue at the stairs allowed Mrs. BritishB747 to get a few photographs of me in front of the plane.

In short, even when the passengers could see the plane and the livery, they didn't seem in the least bit interested.

I believe more people notice than most users here would expect. Especially when a livery or the operating carrier is different from what they booked.
Last year I was booked on Ryanair CAG-PMI. The flight was operated by Lauda Europe with A320. It was standing next to a FR B738 at the gate, so some passengers were actually confused and inquired, that it is the wrong plane there are boarding. The gate agent was pretty annoyed about the discussion, as those passengers were holding up the boarding.

Not being an avgeek does not mean they don't know what they are flying on. I've talked to many "normies" that have absolutely no interest in aviation, but quite a lot of them could differentiate between airlines and even some airplane types.

conaly wrote:

I believe more people notice than most users here would expect. Especially when a livery or the operating carrier is different from what they booked.
Last year I was booked on Ryanair CAG-PMI. The flight was operated by Lauda Europe with A320. It was standing next to a FR B738 at the gate, so some passengers were actually confused and inquired, that it is the wrong plane there are boarding. The gate agent was pretty annoyed about the discussion, as those passengers were holding up the boarding.

Not being an avgeek does not mean they don't know what they are flying on. I've talked to many "normies" that have absolutely no interest in aviation, but quite a lot of them could differentiate between airlines and even some airplane types.

I friend of mine had booked an Eurowings flight from FRA to Jerez in Spain and was extremely confused when the bus stopped in front of a Finnair A 320. I am sure that quite a lot of passengers asked if this is the correct aircraft, something like "we want to fly southwards, so is the aircraft that has huge FINNAIR letters on its fuselage the correct aircraft to board?!?!"

I think it also makes for some cheap marketing PR, at least a few pics on IG or tweets.

As on the "old livery, old plane" I can imagine the uproar if it was painted on a turboprop

I think frequent travelers will notice and know what it is when they spot a classic / retro livery. The average person who flies once every 2nd year will have no idea what's going on. But those people will rarely notice any changes anyway.
But I do believe the airlines would benefit from making a bigger deal out of these liveries than what they're currently doing. A notice in aviation magazines or forums isn't enough. Make a plaque inside the cabin, announce it at the gate when boarding, or by the crew after boarding.

JetBuddy wrote:

I think frequent travelers will notice and know what it is when they spot a classic / retro livery. The average person who flies once every 2nd year will have no idea what's going on. But those people will rarely notice any changes anyway.
But I do believe the airlines would benefit from making a bigger deal out of these liveries than what they're currently doing. A notice in aviation magazines or forums isn't enough. Make a plaque inside the cabin, announce it at the gate when boarding, or by the crew after boarding.

Totally agree, though for us old farts I can see some "discussion" about how much better TWA was than AA etc

What would be interesting is if one of the airlines managed to persuade CSX to allow them to do a Pan Am retro jet, when it was Guilford there was no chance of that happening, CSX may be a different ball game.

As an person that mostly flies AA now domestically I try to avoid DFW if I can, but my wife or assistant know that if we are headed that way I get the window seat and not to even bother trying to talk to me until the door is open as I will be looking out of the window looking for the retro liveries.

I do wish AA had gone with the Globe livery over the dual stripe, but I can understand why (cost).

I flew on the British Airways Negus 757, G-CPET during it's brief tenure in 2010. It was in fact it's last regular revenue service (EDI-LHR) and there was a big fuss made over it by the crew and staff. Their 757 fleet manager was in the cabin going round talking to passengers and handing out certificates. Some passengers were of course enthusiasts and ex flight or cabin crew but the impression I got was that most of the pax found it interesting and novel to be on this little piece of history in the air.

Just like how passengers say they are on an old plane because they see an ashtray in the lavatory.

I flew from TPE to SFO in the early 2000s and it was on China Airlines. The plane said Mandarin Airlines and I was confused.

I doubt there's much confusion since, as has been already said upthread, most pax don't have any idea of the livery on the aircraft and don't care/think about it.

There are so many more which could be done and I wish would be, but the one that pisses me off is the GF bird. WHO at GF decided to make what was the purple color band gold? Hardly a retro/heritage jet if it's not accurate at such a basic level, and it's a shame because it was a wonderful livery.

cathay747 wrote:

There are so many more which could be done and I wish would be, but the one that pisses me off is the GF bird. WHO at GF decided to make what was the purple color band gold? Hardly a retro/heritage jet if it's not accurate at such a basic level, and it's a shame because it was a wonderful livery.

Politics is the reason. That dark purple represented Qatar (who use to be a part owner of Gulf Air). That is of course no longer the case, and Bahrain and Qatar haven’t had the strongest of relationships in recent years.

The AA retrojets of PMAA brands are more egregious. They just painted the base color the same grey as normal AA instead of white out of sheer laziness/cost savings.

I flew on Reno Air livery to Puerto Rico. Didn't know I was Reno Air livery until I noticed a sign with Reno Air on it

Qantas has a couple of 737s in retro liveries.

All their 737 forward galley bulkheads feature the Qantas logo. On the retro fleet, the current logo is swapped for the classic flying Kangaroo logo from the 1940s to 1980s. It's a nice touch to differentiate the retro fleet in the cabin.

Qantas also uses rear stairs boarding. The retro livery certainly gets noticed in that situation.

As some have mentioned, the retro liveries get some extra attention from pax when the inside of the cabin is different in some ways then they are used to. I recall when Hawaiian had two (three?) A330's in the Moana movie scheme. Not exactly "retro" by definition, but the inside of the cabins had all sorts of designs on the overhead bins which the other aircraft in the fleet did not. So more likely to realize something is "special" about it

flyaa757 wrote:

I’m always interested if interiors of special logo aircraft’s have plaques etc. I know the UA 320 does…

I’ve flown a few.
DL738/752/764, AF 772, KL 190/739 Skyteam - nothing inside
DL BCRF 764, ACS 764 - nothing inside
Skywest 35th Ann CR9 - had a plaque

The AS "Starliner" had special touches in the interior.

I flew on the Herbert D Kelleher -700 a few years ago. The other retro was across the ramp and a few people said "Wow those planes must be so old, I haven't seen a brown Southwest in years!"

Of the people I know, most people don't even know what airline they are flying until they look at the booking on the way to the airport, let alone the type of aircraft or how it is painted. We know, because we have an interest.

I totally miss Reno Air but the Reno Air livery on the AA 737 is totally and absolutely hideous. That livery was designed for the Maddogs only. It looks terrible on the 737s.

BWIAirport wrote:

Unfortunately, few passengers are aware of the exterior paint of their plane when they board. So many airport gates provide poor views of the aircraft anyway, and very few passengers are watching the aircraft arrive at the gate. At most, 1/3 of the passengers even have a window seat and can see outside; a small fraction of which may notice that the flap fairings or winglets are a different color.
Retro liveries are homages to the past, and sometimes nods to the avgeeks who notice and care. My sister, who has been dragged into the world of aviation by me and is more aware than the average civilian, just noticed last year that Southwest departed from the Canyon Blue scheme to the Heart livery. It's just not something of interest to most.

Very well said. I don't even know why they spend money painting retro liveries. As an AvGeek, I thank airlines for doing it but it's definitely not useful.

Most paxs are so clueless they seem to think Group 1 means Group 9.

I did run into one instance where an unexpected livery caused confusion. I flew on one of the first American Eagle flights after AA started allowing carriers other than MQ to operate under the brand. Not all the CRJs received their new paint so OO operated the flights with plane painted in their house livery. Walking to the aircraft using the ramp system at the infamous Gate 44 remote terminal at LAX, several passengers paused when they saw the plane with "SKYWEST" on the side. Took some convincing from the flight attendant to persuade people they were going to board the correct plane.

A bit of a stretch from the thread topic, but I've wondered similar questions as to passenger thoughts with either 1) all white planes with no logo (such as Virgin Australia's 737-700's that were recently purchased that were rapidly put into service without paint work) or 2) the plane comes to the gate very dirty.
I know a common response is "most people don't notice the exterior of the plane at all" but I think anxious flyers definitely take notice

Wingtips56 wrote:

I'm very happy AA did the retrojet for my Air California/AirCal history, though I wish the fuselage was white, and correct.

I'm not a fan of the grey instead of the white, but I understand it from an ease-of-maintenance standpoint.

I think it would be nice to also introduce a few splashes of the retro colour scheme inside, to raise the awareness.

I would LOVE to see DL get into the retro bandwagon but they are so brand-sensative I doubt it would happen. Think about a Widget A350 or Western beer can 321. Maybe Herman the Goose and blue Southern worms on a couple 737s. I doubt they would paint a Red Tail because it's too soon. One can dream ....

Italianflyer wrote:

I would LOVE to see DL get into the retro bandwagon but they are so brand-sensative I doubt it would happen. Think about a Widget A350 or Western beer can 321. Maybe Herman the Goose and blue Southern worms on a couple 737s. I doubt they would paint a Red Tail because it's too soon. One can dream ....

Go farther back--a Northeast 'Yellowbird' A220 or a C&S 717! But I agree, Delta for whatever reason doesn't do 'retros' outside of their own historic scheme.

mga707 wrote:

Italianflyer wrote:

I would LOVE to see DL get into the retro bandwagon but they are so brand-sensative I doubt it would happen. Think about a Widget A350 or Western beer can 321. Maybe Herman the Goose and blue Southern worms on a couple 737s. I doubt they would paint a Red Tail because it's too soon. One can dream ....

Go farther back--a Northeast 'Yellowbird' A220 or a C&S 717! But I agree, Delta for whatever reason doesn't do 'retros' outside of their own historic scheme.

Best of all: a Western Indian Head-liveried 763! I have a drawing done by an artist known for "fantasy liveries" saved on my hard drive but no way to post it here sadly...it's gorgeous. But yeah, a NE Yellowbird...wow! And being a fan of NC (my first flight was on them) I'd really love to see Herman for sure. But as you said, DL for some odd reason really doesn't want to go down this road. So sad.

cathay747 wrote:

mga707 wrote:

Italianflyer wrote:

I would LOVE to see DL get into the retro bandwagon but they are so brand-sensative I doubt it would happen. Think about a Widget A350 or Western beer can 321. Maybe Herman the Goose and blue Southern worms on a couple 737s. I doubt they would paint a Red Tail because it's too soon. One can dream ....

Go farther back--a Northeast 'Yellowbird' A220 or a C&S 717! But I agree, Delta for whatever reason doesn't do 'retros' outside of their own historic scheme.

Best of all: a Western Indian Head-liveried 763! I have a drawing done by an artist known for "fantasy liveries" saved on my hard drive but no way to post it here sadly...it's gorgeous. But yeah, a NE Yellowbird...wow! And being a fan of NC (my first flight was on them) I'd really love to see Herman for sure. But as you said, DL for some odd reason really doesn't want to go down this road. So sad.

Ed Bastian has gone on record to say that while he's in charge, there will be no retro liveries, as they would dilute the brand.

Some of them should convert their whole fleet back to retro. Many current liveries are blah, hence United, American. I realize that modern airliners are no longer made of aluminum that can be nicely polished, but AA's polished skin with the longitudinal stripes is one of the best looking ever.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/America ... 0wBw%3D%3D

lxman1 wrote:

Some of them should convert their whole fleet back to retro. Many current liveries are blah, hence United, American. I realize that modern airliners are no longer made of aluminum that can be nicely polished, but AA's polished skin with the longitudinal stripes is one of the best looking ever.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/America ... 0wBw%3D%3D

The only transport category jets that could not have polished aluminum are the 787 and A350

Nothing more confusing than Jet Blue painting one of their aircraft in a ‘retro’ livery that they never used ?


Sort of ‘if we had been around a long time ago this would have been our paint scheme’