I'm beginning to think that someone at JQ may need pick up the phone right now and ring Boeing or some lessor and lease some more 787s..... for the long-term as well..... This is quite frankly, ridiculous.

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

I'm beginning to think that someone at JQ may need pick up the phone right now and ring Boeing or some lessor and lease some more 787s..... for the long-term as well..... This is quite frankly, ridiculous.

You think they have not? Just because they have not brought in any new aircraft, doesn't mean they have not looked or tried.

NTLDaz wrote:

RyanairGuru wrote:

EK413 wrote:

Exactly

A number of JQ B788 routes operate wing to wing with QF mainline such as SYD-HNL, SYD-ICN, SYD-HNL.

The remaining routes MEL/SYD-HKT, MEL-BKK, MEL/SYD-SGN, MEL-SIN, are within range of the XLR’s OR probably QF could take over routes such as MEL-HNL.


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I don’t want to sound elitist, but Hawaii is rapidly moving beyond the reach of Jetstar’s demographic with AUD under 70 US cents. I’m sure HNL will hang around while they still have 787s, but don’t think that keeping the 787s and/or replacing them with something else that can make HNL would be as much of a priority as ir would have been a few years ago.

Given the cost savings to Jetstar (viewed in isolation) from a single fleet, coupled with the group-wide capital saving of moving those to Qantas rather than ordering new aircraft, HNL would need to be generating serious profits to justify the cost of keeping those aircraft at Jetstar. I really doubt HNL could be that lucrative in the current market.

I reckon there may be plenty of people ( like me ) who would rather spend their money on the ground at their destination than on the flight. 10 hours on a packed JQ flight may suck but if the savings are decent it is worth doing.

This isn't the first time and won't be the last time that the AUD sucks but people still jump on JQ to HNL.

Sure, I’m in the same group, flew Jetstar to Hawaii for the cost saving over Qantas, and Hawaiian for that matter. That wasn’t really my point, and I acknowledge I phrased it badly. I trying to say that demand to Hawaii was likely down overall, and that this one route alone was not ‘worth’ the added expense if all else was equal.

smi0006 wrote:

RyanairGuru wrote:

EK413 wrote:

Exactly

A number of JQ B788 routes operate wing to wing with QF mainline such as SYD-HNL, SYD-ICN, SYD-HNL.

The remaining routes MEL/SYD-HKT, MEL-BKK, MEL/SYD-SGN, MEL-SIN, are within range of the XLR’s OR probably QF could take over routes such as MEL-HNL.


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I don’t want to sound elitist, but Hawaii is rapidly moving beyond the reach of Jetstar’s demographic with AUD under 70 US cents. I’m sure HNL will hang around while they still have 787s, but don’t think that keeping the 787s and/or replacing them with something else that can make HNL would be as much of a priority as ir would have been a few years ago.

Given the cost savings to Jetstar (viewed in isolation) from a single fleet, coupled with the group-wide capital saving of moving those to Qantas rather than ordering new aircraft, HNL would need to be generating serious profits to justify the cost of keeping those aircraft at Jetstar. I really doubt HNL could be that lucrative in the current market.

I would be cautious around savings - I’ve heard multiple examples of ‘group costs’ vs QF / JQ - I believe HNL, BKK, DPS airport managers look after both carriers etc. I’d imagine it’s the same parts pool, and maybe engineering contracts (they would be mad if it wasn’t).

Surely it’s not just HNL - but BKK, NRT, that also require the capacity? Isn’t JQ 788 - 21J 314Y and the 321LR - 232 at nearly 100seats + cargo difference hardly like for like capacity wise. I still see a role for the 788 at JQ, I do wonder what the technical specs are like.

But I do feel QF are at a crunch for capacity, so curious to see what levers they do decide to pull!

By savings I was mostly referring to pilots, with the efficiency of a single pilot group on low(er) narrow body wages. Maintenance would also be a saving, as - in Australia at least - Jetstar engineering is completely separate.

Jetstar will undoubtedly be leaving revenue on the table by switching to an all-A321 fleet, there can be no doubt about that, but that isn’t the relevant question. The question is whether the revenue forgone (or more accurately profit forgone) is more than the operating cost of the 787 at Jetstar and the capital cost of a new fleet for Qantas. I suggest that it is difficult to answer that question affirmatively.

Narita and Osaka don’t need a 787 sized aircraft as such, and in fact 7, 10, or 14, weekly frequencies cold more closely match supply with seasonal demand fluctuations, reducing seasonal over-capacity and avoiding the need to dump so many seat sales in off-season. They’re not making money on $400 return to Japan. At that point they have only lost the ‘business class’ seats. Cargo can be moved on Qantas, and if it can’t then that’s more revenue/profit forgone which might start to weigh in favour of keeping the 787s.

This equally applies to BKK, SIN, SGN, ICN, with SGN being they only market not served by Qantas, and therefore the loss of cargo capacity potentially being a concern. Qantas flew cargo only flights to SGN during Covid, so clearly cargo demand is there. But again, the question is not whether Jetstar would take in less money, they will, but whether that loss is less than other costs.

From the other side of the coin, Qantas have 10 A333s and 16 A332s. Replacing those with 13 788s and 20-25 A321XLRs would be hard to walk past from a cost perspective. I would genuinely love for Qantas to order 30-40 789s or A359s to replace the A330s and allow for further growth, but I don’t think that’s likely. Even with a new widebody order to replace some A330s, I think A321s would still replace some of them. Only 13 788s would probably be sub-optimal from a fleet perspective, even with making some Asia routes double-daily with A321s, but for better or for worse ‘sub-optimal’ is how Qantas’ fleet often is. It would be a shortsighted decision to reduce capex, with longer term limitations, but that’s pretty standard for Joyce’s Qantas.

I actually would like to be wrong, but I honestly don’t think we can dismiss the possibility out of hand.

JQ only have 11 788s.

QF would still need additional widebodies even if they assumed all of JQs 788 frames and received the XLRs.

QF 321XLR routes are likely to be focussed on dipping their toe in restarting thinner leisure routes to Asia like ADL-SIN.

Depending on the final layout, QF 788s would probably replace the A330s some transcon, India, China, BNE-LAX, SYD-HNL, adding additional capacity to current routes and restarting routes that didn’t fail but because QF don’t have the capacity anymore (SYD-KIX).

SCFlyer wrote:

selected for P2F conversion for Qantas freight.

I was off the boards when this decision came out. What is the thinking on how these will fit in the fleet and what does it mean for the rest of the fleet? I assume the 763 will be retired and these will replace and grow its role? The Atlas freighters will stay for a while yet yeah?

Haven’t seen it posted here yet, but VH-EBL has returned to service wearing the “Pride is in the air” livery in celebration of the Sydney WorldPride and Mardi Gras later this month. Looks fantastic in person.

qf789 wrote:

EK415 has diverted to PER, lining up for finals right now

Medical? Looks like they were close to LEA.

tullamarine wrote:

Delays and cancellations continue at JQ International. At least JQ44 got out of DPS today after yet another cancellation yesterday. It is still running over 3 hours late and has been downgraded for today to a A321LR; not sure what happens to those that have paid for Jetstar Business Class when this happens, probably another useless credit voucher. I assume the downgrade has given engineers a decent time to fix whatever ails the scheduled 788 so there is a chance of some timetable integrity going forward.

I'm actually connecting onto JQ44 to get home from Indonesia on the weekend. Looking at what's been going on for the past week, I've told my wife to not necessarily expect me home within 12 hours of the schedule.

My parents have experience of JQ swapping out the 788 to 321 from DPS to Mel in Business - and the answer is JQ do nothing until you call them and make a fuss. My parents were allocated middle and aisle seats on the 321, after a lot of back and forth and multiple calls they got 1 emergency exit row seat, food credit on the flight, and a credit for the difference in cost of business to economy - but only after they made contact with JQ - who did not notify of any change.

I still have no answer from JQ either regarding my group bookings for next month where our flights have been cancelled and put onto QF - still no reference # that QF can help with seat and baggage (we have 8 sets of golf clubs)

qf2220 wrote:

SCFlyer wrote:

selected for P2F conversion for Qantas freight.

I was off the boards when this decision came out. What is the thinking on how these will fit in the fleet and what does it mean for the rest of the fleet? I assume the 763 will be retired and these will replace and grow its role? The Atlas freighters will stay for a while yet yeah?

Yes, the 763 will be retired/sold once the 2 A332P2F freighters have joined the fleet.

The A330F was naturally selected as QF have A330s in the fleet so engineering can be handled within existing resources and the cost of conversion extended the life of owned fleet that now have a low value in the secondhand market. The A330Fs have both greater range and payload capacity compared with the 763F they are replacing.

The Atlas 747 wet-leases will remain for the foreseeable future as these are used for long range freight (principally USA) whereas the A330Fs will be more targetted towards Tasman and Asian services. The only logical replacement for the Atlas 747s would be 777Fs but, as QF do not have engineering expertise for 777s, these would also probably be a wet-lease arrangement.

evanb wrote:

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

I'm beginning to think that someone at JQ may need pick up the phone right now and ring Boeing or some lessor and lease some more 787s..... for the long-term as well..... This is quite frankly, ridiculous.

You think they have not? Just because they have not brought in any new aircraft, doesn't mean they have not looked or tried.

Given how they can't even tell other authorities what aircraft type they're using on particular flights, I'm going with 'no'.

getluv wrote:

QF 321XLR routes are likely to be focussed on dipping their toe in restarting thinner leisure routes to Asia like ADL-SIN.

The initial QF 321XLRs have been specced with J recliners in a 20J 160Y config.
And will likely go on the domestic golden triangle.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ness-class

Remember Qantas 737-800s started arriving en-mass in 2002 after Ansett's collapse when they picked up cancelled AA aircraft. These aircraft air getting old too.

moa999 wrote:

getluv wrote:

QF 321XLR routes are likely to be focussed on dipping their toe in restarting thinner leisure routes to Asia like ADL-SIN.

The initial QF 321XLRs have been specced with J recliners in a 20J 160Y config.
And will likely go on the domestic golden triangle.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ness-class

Remember Qantas 737-800s started arriving en-mass in 2002 after Ansett's collapse when they picked up cancelled AA aircraft. These aircraft air getting old too.

Yes, the initial XLRs will be domestically configured and will replace the VX* series 738s and potentially some of the original Cityflyer A332s of which there will only be 3 once EBE goes for conversion as EBD looks like it has been already retired.

rgrassick wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Delays and cancellations continue at JQ International. At least JQ44 got out of DPS today after yet another cancellation yesterday. It is still running over 3 hours late and has been downgraded for today to a A321LR; not sure what happens to those that have paid for Jetstar Business Class when this happens, probably another useless credit voucher. I assume the downgrade has given engineers a decent time to fix whatever ails the scheduled 788 so there is a chance of some timetable integrity going forward.

I'm actually connecting onto JQ44 to get home from Indonesia on the weekend. Looking at what's been going on for the past week, I've told my wife to not necessarily expect me home within 12 hours of the schedule.

My parents have experience of JQ swapping out the 788 to 321 from DPS to Mel in Business - and the answer is JQ do nothing until you call them and make a fuss. My parents were allocated middle and aisle seats on the 321, after a lot of back and forth and multiple calls they got 1 emergency exit row seat, food credit on the flight, and a credit for the difference in cost of business to economy - but only after they made contact with JQ - who did not notify of any change.

I still have no answer from JQ either regarding my group bookings for next month where our flights have been cancelled and put onto QF - still no reference # that QF can help with seat and baggage (we have 8 sets of golf clubs)

What a shock....not. I am consistently bemused by how deliberately poor JQ's customer service is. It is like they actively go out of their way to be difficult. It is not new but has been there since AJ was leading JQ. In some respects, he has encouraged some of the same behaviour in the wider QF since.

I do feel sorry for the JQ staff who cannot hide behind a website and an unanswered telephone and have to actually come face-to-face with customers. It must be incredibly depressing to be forced to deliver such poor service.

QF744ER wrote:

qf2048 wrote:

Currently an extra QF SYD-SIN in flight. QF 83, a B789 (ZNJ)

Believe it’s heading to SIAEC at Changi for a maintenance check, some of the other 789’s have had their checks performed there in the past.

Speaking of 789’s I saw the wings on ZNA again recently, they look absolutely shocking on the upper surfaces.

Flying schedule has EBB and QPG set to return to service this month also. Interestingly EBB is set to rejoin the fleet just days before EBE is withdrawn for P2F conversion in Europe.

Air New Zealand have or had the same problems. They have been had a number of aircraft in the States having the problem rectified,

evanb wrote:

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

I'm beginning to think that someone at JQ may need pick up the phone right now and ring Boeing or some lessor and lease some more 787s..... for the long-term as well..... This is quite frankly, ridiculous.

You think they have not? Just because they have not brought in any new aircraft, doesn't mean they have not looked or tried.

Please stop making excuses all the time for QFs and JQ poor performances. The 787 operation seems to collapse on pretty much a monthly basis. Jetstar seem to be beyond hopeless.

tullamarine wrote:

Delays and cancellations continue at JQ International. At least JQ44 got out of DPS today after yet another cancellation yesterday. It is still running over 3 hours late and has been downgraded for today to a A321LR; not sure what happens to those that have paid for Jetstar Business Class when this happens, probably another useless credit voucher. I assume the downgrade has given engineers a decent time to fix whatever ails the scheduled 788 so there is a chance of some timetable integrity going forward.

I'm actually connecting onto JQ44 to get home from Indonesia on the weekend. Looking at what's been going on for the past week, I've told my wife to not necessarily expect me home within 12 hours of the schedule.

Another day, another delay. 788 is back operating JQ44 today but it is departing at least 3.5 hours late.

Meanwhile JQ58 to BNE is running 10 hours late and now won't depart until 11.20PM DPS time. This plane would normally do JQ57 back to DPS tomorrow and become tomorrow's JQ44. It is likely there will be a knock-on delay and both JQ57 and JQ44 will again be late tomorrow.

Does anyone know how the Rex 737 ops are doing?

tullamarine wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Delays and cancellations continue at JQ International. At least JQ44 got out of DPS today after yet another cancellation yesterday. It is still running over 3 hours late and has been downgraded for today to a A321LR; not sure what happens to those that have paid for Jetstar Business Class when this happens, probably another useless credit voucher. I assume the downgrade has given engineers a decent time to fix whatever ails the scheduled 788 so there is a chance of some timetable integrity going forward.

I'm actually connecting onto JQ44 to get home from Indonesia on the weekend. Looking at what's been going on for the past week, I've told my wife to not necessarily expect me home within 12 hours of the schedule.

Another day, another delay. 788 is back operating JQ44 today but it is departing at least 3.5 hours late.

Meanwhile JQ58 to BNE is running 10 hours late and now won't depart until 11.20PM DPS time. This plane would normally do JQ57 back to DPS tomorrow and become tomorrow's JQ44. It is likely there will be a knock-on delay and both JQ57 and JQ44 will again be late tomorrow.

A321NEO’s on DPS are looking more and more promising with increased frequency from SYD,MEL & probably BNE.


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tullamarine wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Delays and cancellations continue at JQ International. At least JQ44 got out of DPS today after yet another cancellation yesterday. It is still running over 3 hours late and has been downgraded for today to a A321LR; not sure what happens to those that have paid for Jetstar Business Class when this happens, probably another useless credit voucher. I assume the downgrade has given engineers a decent time to fix whatever ails the scheduled 788 so there is a chance of some timetable integrity going forward.

I'm actually connecting onto JQ44 to get home from Indonesia on the weekend. Looking at what's been going on for the past week, I've told my wife to not necessarily expect me home within 12 hours of the schedule.

Another day, another delay. 788 is back operating JQ44 today but it is departing at least 3.5 hours late.

Meanwhile JQ58 to BNE is running 10 hours late and now won't depart until 11.20PM DPS time. This plane would normally do JQ57 back to DPS tomorrow and become tomorrow's JQ44. It is likely there will be a knock-on delay and both JQ57 and JQ44 will again be late tomorrow.

JQ44 did end up taking off 4 hours late but changed to a A321LR again. It is fair to say Jetstar's international scheduling is purely advisory at this point. If nothing else, the A321LRs seem pretty reliable so far.

QF81 BLR-SYD ended up in CBR this afternoon. I assume SYD was effected by storms as there were plenty of aircraft doing doughnuts.

tullamarine wrote:

rgrassick wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Delays and cancellations continue at JQ International. At least JQ44 got out of DPS today after yet another cancellation yesterday. It is still running over 3 hours late and has been downgraded for today to a A321LR; not sure what happens to those that have paid for Jetstar Business Class when this happens, probably another useless credit voucher. I assume the downgrade has given engineers a decent time to fix whatever ails the scheduled 788 so there is a chance of some timetable integrity going forward.

I'm actually connecting onto JQ44 to get home from Indonesia on the weekend. Looking at what's been going on for the past week, I've told my wife to not necessarily expect me home within 12 hours of the schedule.

My parents have experience of JQ swapping out the 788 to 321 from DPS to Mel in Business - and the answer is JQ do nothing until you call them and make a fuss. My parents were allocated middle and aisle seats on the 321, after a lot of back and forth and multiple calls they got 1 emergency exit row seat, food credit on the flight, and a credit for the difference in cost of business to economy - but only after they made contact with JQ - who did not notify of any change.

I still have no answer from JQ either regarding my group bookings for next month where our flights have been cancelled and put onto QF - still no reference # that QF can help with seat and baggage (we have 8 sets of golf clubs)

What a shock....not. I am consistently bemused by how deliberately poor JQ's customer service is. It is like they actively go out of their way to be difficult. It is not new but has been there since AJ was leading JQ. In some respects, he has encouraged some of the same behaviour in the wider QF since.

I do feel sorry for the JQ staff who cannot hide behind a website and an unanswered telephone and have to actually come face-to-face with customers. It must be incredibly depressing to be forced to deliver such poor service.

It’s early days, so we might end up pleasantly surprised, but Bonza could make Jetstar look like the gospel of IRROPS recovery every time it rains in Maroochydore.

By the end of the year. Qantas should have 4 more 380s back in service, 4 more 330s back in service and 3 brand new 789s. So that is 11 more wide bodies than they have presently. They could still open up new routes with the capacity coming on stream. They have existing planned routes set to return SFO and JFK plus the seasonal FCO using the 789s.
While CDG and ORD could both start with two 789s taken off the MEL-LAX when they return this route to the 380. Perhaps more 330 routes could return as well eg KIX or PVG?

NZ516 wrote:

By the end of the year. Qantas should have 4 more 380s back in service, 4 more 330s back in service and 3 brand new 789s. So that is 11 more wide bodies than they have presently. They could still open up new routes with the capacity coming on stream. They have existing planned routes set to return SFO and JFK plus the seasonal FCO using the 789s.
While CDG and ORD could both start with two 789s taken off the MEL-LAX when they return this route to the 380. Perhaps more 330 routes could return as well eg KIX or PVG?

PVG will depend on when corporate travel starts returning to China, which will take longer than VFR traffic. I’m sure it will return at some point, though. Depending on how Hong Kong demand goes, which is still a bit of an unknown, resuming BNE-HKG is likely still on a long-list.

I read elsewhere on this site that the US3 + Hawaiian have all said that demand ex-Japan has not returned as quickly as anticipated. I’m not sure if that’s the same for Australia, but if it is then KIX is likely still 12-18 months away. I think it will return though, especially if they are committed to never returning to NRT, as they TYO has gone from 747 + 2x A330 to just 2x A330. I think CTS will also return seasonally, as there was just so much demand for skiing in Japan before Covid, and that will return eventually. Maybe for summer 2024/25, although it could even come back for 2023/24 if Japan demand is booming again.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but NZ's PER-AKL flight operated by Wamos has been extended.
Wamos will be doing the flying under the end of October.

NZ516 wrote:

By the end of the year. Qantas should have 4 more 380s back in service, 4 more 330s back in service and 3 brand new 789s. So that is 11 more wide bodies than they have presently. They could still open up new routes with the capacity coming on stream. They have existing planned routes set to return SFO and JFK plus the seasonal FCO using the 789s.
While CDG and ORD could both start with two 789s taken off the MEL-LAX when they return this route to the 380. Perhaps more 330 routes could return as well eg KIX or PVG?

The routes that are 3pw would probably see some frequency additions before new routes no? Eg SCL is still way down from its 4pw 744ER capacity and was always touted as a daily 789 route and JFK was a daily route ex LAX so 3pw sounds lower than it should be too.

NZ516 wrote:

By the end of the year. Qantas should have 4 more 380s back in service, 4 more 330s back in service and 3 brand new 789s. So that is 11 more wide bodies than they have presently. They could still open up new routes with the capacity coming on stream. They have existing planned routes set to return SFO and JFK plus the seasonal FCO using the 789s.
While CDG and ORD could both start with two 789s taken off the MEL-LAX when they return this route to the 380. Perhaps more 330 routes could return as well eg KIX or PVG?

I dont think there are 4 more A330s to come back, does that include the ones going for freighter conversion?

QF A330’s: QPG, which flew a couple of days ago, and Maybe EBD to come back, but I’m hearing rumours it’s too far gone too economically reactivate. Also EBB is being reactivated at the moment, but it just replaces EBE which goes for conversion. So 1 more A330 in the fleet, with an outside chance of 2.

Whatsaptudo wrote:

QF A330’s: QPG, which flew a couple of days ago, and Maybe EBD to come back, but I’m hearing rumours it’s too far gone too economically reactivate. Also EBB is being deactivated at the moment, but it just replaces EBE which goes for conversion. So 1 more A330 in the fleet, with an outside chance of 2.

During covid the parked A330s were stored locally, I know a lot of them went to Avalon, not ideal for long term storage. I dont know why QF didnt explore ASP for instance, SYD, AVV are too wet for a/c storage. Do you know the specific issues with EBD?

jrfspa320 wrote:

Whatsaptudo wrote:

QF A330’s: QPG, which flew a couple of days ago, and Maybe EBD to come back, but I’m hearing rumours it’s too far gone too economically reactivate. Also EBB is being deactivated at the moment, but it just replaces EBE which goes for conversion. So 1 more A330 in the fleet, with an outside chance of 2.

During covid the parked A330s were stored locally, I know a lot of them went to Avalon, not ideal for long term storage. I dont know why QF didnt explore ASP for instance, SYD, AVV are too wet for a/c storage. Do you know the specific issues with EBD?

No I don’t, sorry.

Whatsaptudo wrote:

QF A330’s: QPG, which flew a couple of days ago, and Maybe EBD to come back, but I’m hearing rumours it’s too far gone too economically reactivate. Also EBB is being reactivated at the moment, but it just replaces EBE which goes for conversion. So 1 more A330 in the fleet, with an outside chance of 2.

I find it pretty shocking if EBD has deteriorated due to poor storage? Heads would roll if that was the case - the board wouldn't want to see an asset written off due to negligence? Surely there isnt another explanation for its issues?

qf2220 wrote:

Whatsaptudo wrote:

QF A330’s: QPG, which flew a couple of days ago, and Maybe EBD to come back, but I’m hearing rumours it’s too far gone too economically reactivate. Also EBB is being reactivated at the moment, but it just replaces EBE which goes for conversion. So 1 more A330 in the fleet, with an outside chance of 2.

I find it pretty shocking if EBD has deteriorated due to poor storage? Heads would roll if that was the case - the board wouldn't want to see an asset written off due to negligence? Surely there isnt another explanation for its issues?

It may be that it is due for an expensive C or D check and it makes more sense to scrap EBD and use her for parts. That is not unusual for older planes.

As a Cityflyer A332, she will be amongst the first retired anyway so an expensive maintenance check probably doesn't make economic sense if it is only going to remain in the fleet for the next couple of years. It is expected the Cityflyer A332s, alongside the oldest 738s (VX* series) will be replaced by the first batch of A321XLRs.

tullamarine wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

SCFlyer wrote:

selected for P2F conversion for Qantas freight.

I was off the boards when this decision came out. What is the thinking on how these will fit in the fleet and what does it mean for the rest of the fleet? I assume the 763 will be retired and these will replace and grow its role? The Atlas freighters will stay for a while yet yeah?

Yes, the 763 will be retired/sold once the 2 A332P2F freighters have joined the fleet.

The A330F was naturally selected as QF have A330s in the fleet so engineering can be handled within existing resources and the cost of conversion extended the life of owned fleet that now have a low value in the secondhand market. The A330Fs have both greater range and payload capacity compared with the 763F they are replacing.

The Atlas 747 wet-leases will remain for the foreseeable future as these are used for long range freight (principally USA) whereas the A330Fs will be more targetted towards Tasman and Asian services. The only logical replacement for the Atlas 747s would be 777Fs but, as QF do not have engineering expertise for 777s, these would also probably be a wet-lease arrangement.

There are rumours that there will eventually be at least 4 330 p2f’s in the Qantas freight fleet. The logical step would be to add 2 A350F once they are available, circa 2025. There would be commonality with the QF 350ULR and allow QF to take the Atlas work in house. The Qantas Freight pilot group could fly both the 330 and 350 as a common type.

A fleet of 6 widebodys would well and truly cover any capacity lost with the introduction of the 321ULR on Asian routes.

jrfspa320 wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

By the end of the year. Qantas should have 4 more 380s back in service, 4 more 330s back in service and 3 brand new 789s. So that is 11 more wide bodies than they have presently. They could still open up new routes with the capacity coming on stream. They have existing planned routes set to return SFO and JFK plus the seasonal FCO using the 789s.
While CDG and ORD could both start with two 789s taken off the MEL-LAX when they return this route to the 380. Perhaps more 330 routes could return as well eg KIX or PVG?

I dont think there are 4 more A330s to come back, does that include the ones going for freighter conversion?

Yes I think it's less than 4 now. I see this page has been updated again showing 3 parked 330s.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Qantas

tullamarine wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

Whatsaptudo wrote:

QF A330’s: QPG, which flew a couple of days ago, and Maybe EBD to come back, but I’m hearing rumours it’s too far gone too economically reactivate. Also EBB is being reactivated at the moment, but it just replaces EBE which goes for conversion. So 1 more A330 in the fleet, with an outside chance of 2.

I find it pretty shocking if EBD has deteriorated due to poor storage? Heads would roll if that was the case - the board wouldn't want to see an asset written off due to negligence? Surely there isnt another explanation for its issues?

It may be that it is due for an expensive C or D check and it makes more sense to scrap EBD and use her for parts. That is not unusual for older planes.

As a Cityflyer A332, she will be amongst the first retired anyway so an expensive maintenance check probably doesn't make economic sense if it is only going to remain in the fleet for the next couple of years. It is expected the Cityflyer A332s, alongside the oldest 738s (VX* series) will be replaced by the first batch of A321XLRs.

"Too far gone" and "expensive C or D" check sound like two different things to me though...

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

evanb wrote:

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

I'm beginning to think that someone at JQ may need pick up the phone right now and ring Boeing or some lessor and lease some more 787s..... for the long-term as well..... This is quite frankly, ridiculous.

You think they have not? Just because they have not brought in any new aircraft, doesn't mean they have not looked or tried.

Given how they can't even tell other authorities what aircraft type they're using on particular flights, I'm going with 'no'.

They've literally issued several RFPs for acquisitions in recent years, the first which resulted in the A350-1000s order, which included significant engagement with Boeing through a two year period until the finalisation of the A350-1000 order in May 2022. Soon after that they issues another RFP for the A330 replacement which Boeing are competing for. This is in addition to the narrow body RFPs during the same time. They've been in constant engagement with both Airbus and Boeing for several years regarding new aircraft orders.

Also, give Airbus and Boeing some credit too. It's not like they just sit back and wait. They constantly engage with airlines regarding needs, opportunities, developments, etc.

qf2220 wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

I find it pretty shocking if EBD has deteriorated due to poor storage? Heads would roll if that was the case - the board wouldn't want to see an asset written off due to negligence? Surely there isnt another explanation for its issues?

It may be that it is due for an expensive C or D check and it makes more sense to scrap EBD and use her for parts. That is not unusual for older planes.

As a Cityflyer A332, she will be amongst the first retired anyway so an expensive maintenance check probably doesn't make economic sense if it is only going to remain in the fleet for the next couple of years. It is expected the Cityflyer A332s, alongside the oldest 738s (VX* series) will be replaced by the first batch of A321XLRs.

"Too far gone" and "expensive C or D" check sound like two different things to me though...

Just to add something into the mix: an A330 which has done a lot of short haul flights like EBD has a relatively high number of cycles which shortens some inspection, maintenance and/or replacement intervals for various systems and parts that are linked to cycles rather than or in addition to age or flight hours.

NZ516 wrote:

jrfspa320 wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

By the end of the year. Qantas should have 4 more 380s back in service, 4 more 330s back in service and 3 brand new 789s. So that is 11 more wide bodies than they have presently. They could still open up new routes with the capacity coming on stream. They have existing planned routes set to return SFO and JFK plus the seasonal FCO using the 789s.
While CDG and ORD could both start with two 789s taken off the MEL-LAX when they return this route to the 380. Perhaps more 330 routes could return as well eg KIX or PVG?

I dont think there are 4 more A330s to come back, does that include the ones going for freighter conversion?

Yes I think it's less than 4 now. I see this page has been updated again showing 3 parked 330s.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Qantas

Mind blowing how many B747’s & B767’s QF operated.

Must ask why only 1 A351?


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jrfspa320 wrote:

Whatsaptudo wrote:

QF A330’s: QPG, which flew a couple of days ago, and Maybe EBD to come back, but I’m hearing rumours it’s too far gone too economically reactivate. Also EBB is being deactivated at the moment, but it just replaces EBE which goes for conversion. So 1 more A330 in the fleet, with an outside chance of 2.

During covid the parked A330s were stored locally, I know a lot of them went to Avalon, not ideal for long term storage. I dont know why QF didnt explore ASP for instance, SYD, AVV are too wet for a/c storage. Do you know the specific issues with EBD?

NZ parked 3x 77W’s in AKL, for close to 3 years and you think that would be not a ideal port to store aircraft. Those 3x 77W’s are all back in service now, after around 6 weeks to get them back into service. The 77Ws that went to the US for storage, have taken more work to come back into service.

Although I understand the 77W’s in AKL, NZ did allot of work on them and kept them in a near ready state. Which might of help?

qf2220 wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

I find it pretty shocking if EBD has deteriorated due to poor storage? Heads would roll if that was the case - the board wouldn't want to see an asset written off due to negligence? Surely there isnt another explanation for its issues?

It may be that it is due for an expensive C or D check and it makes more sense to scrap EBD and use her for parts. That is not unusual for older planes.

As a Cityflyer A332, she will be amongst the first retired anyway so an expensive maintenance check probably doesn't make economic sense if it is only going to remain in the fleet for the next couple of years. It is expected the Cityflyer A332s, alongside the oldest 738s (VX* series) will be replaced by the first batch of A321XLRs.

"Too far gone" and "expensive C or D" check sound like two different things to me though...

Those are only the rumours words. I honestly don’t know why EBD won’t be reactivated, if it’s actually true, but the rumour is it will never fly again. I hope they find a way to get it reactivated, but reading between the lines (A380 to HKG replacing the A330 until the next 787 arrives etc………) it looks like something hasn’t gone to plan.

VH-VUE is showing stored on Planespotters, FR24 shows it flew to Seletar on the 26th. In for maintenance or has it been withdrawn from service?

Whatsaptudo wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

It may be that it is due for an expensive C or D check and it makes more sense to scrap EBD and use her for parts. That is not unusual for older planes.

As a Cityflyer A332, she will be amongst the first retired anyway so an expensive maintenance check probably doesn't make economic sense if it is only going to remain in the fleet for the next couple of years. It is expected the Cityflyer A332s, alongside the oldest 738s (VX* series) will be replaced by the first batch of A321XLRs.

"Too far gone" and "expensive C or D" check sound like two different things to me though...

Those are only the rumours words. I honestly don’t know why EBD won’t be reactivated, if it’s actually true, but the rumour is it will never fly again. I hope they find a way to get it reactivated, but reading between the lines (A380 to HKG replacing the A330 until the next 787 arrives etc………) it looks like something hasn’t gone to plan.

On another forum, someone from QF maintenance in PER wrote that after EBB comes out, EBD is meant to into the hangar.

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

Whatsaptudo wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

"Too far gone" and "expensive C or D" check sound like two different things to me though...

Those are only the rumours words. I honestly don’t know why EBD won’t be reactivated, if it’s actually true, but the rumour is it will never fly again. I hope they find a way to get it reactivated, but reading between the lines (A380 to HKG replacing the A330 until the next 787 arrives etc………) it looks like something hasn’t gone to plan.

On another forum, someone from QF maintenance in PER wrote that after EBB comes out, EBD is meant to into the hangar.

Awesome. Fingers crossed. If EBD gets back in the air, that’s 2 more A330’s into the pax fleet at the most. The 4 mentioned by the earlier poster presumably include the 2 freighters.

There are 3 A330’s to return (EBB, EBD and QPG)

a320fan wrote:

VH-VUE is showing stored on Planespotters, FR24 shows it flew to Seletar on the 26th. In for maintenance or has it been withdrawn from service?

Heavy maintenance in AUH, replaced VUZ that was there previously.