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evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:56 am

EK413 wrote:
Speaking of -VKL the aircraft is enroute MEL-PUS under go wing repaint works. Will be out of action for the next few weeks.


Indeed. And adding to my point. This is not a function of their approach to maintenance. This is a required scheduled maintenance event, not in any way linked to "preventative maintenance" or delaying MEL work. If they over schedule, it's their approach to scheduling, not maintenance.
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:06 am

sweetdreams wrote:
new FJ fares to everywhere starting with lowest fares that includes no checked bag. Sign of the times, recession kicking in & they need to have lower fares out there. How much luggage do you need to go to Fiji for a week ?


That's one hell of a leap of faith regarding it being due to a recession. Also, what recession? FWIW, not a single financial institution is prediction a negative quarter of economic growth in Australia this year, so nowhere close to a recession. I'd put this purely as a marketing/pricing strategy for FJ. It's common place in the US nowadays for the "basic economy fares" on some routes on mainline carriers. It's been around for several years and had nothing to do with recession but rather fare segmentation and price discrimination.

While one certainly doesn't need a lot of luggage for a week's holiday in Fiji, Fijian's traveling to Australia, including migrant workers, and Fijian Australians tend to carry a lot of shopping home with them. Same for expats in Fiji on the notorious "shopping runs".
 
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csturdiv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:51 am

news.com.au got out of their lane with that one. Their comfort zone is digging through social media and Reddit stories to write about amazing hacks that can be bought at Kmart or Big W and not with writing articles about anything relevant.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:44 pm

Speaking of QFLink fleet replacements, the Fokkers, Dash 8-200s and the 8-300s are getting on. I know they are have low rotations and nothing as old as the ZL Saabs but they're going to have to start making plans to move these along soon.
 
Fuling
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:46 pm

getluv wrote:
Speaking of QFLink fleet replacements, the Fokkers, Dash 8-200s and the 8-300s are getting on. I know they are have low rotations and nothing as old as the ZL Saabs but they're going to have to start making plans to move these along soon.


The only real replacement for the Dash 8-200 would be the ATR 42 (very close in dimensions with 6 extra seats) for the LDH services. No idea about the 8-300s. The A220-100 would be an ideal replacement for the Fokkers, but highly doubtful QF will invest that much into Network/the FIFO operations. Perhaps the E190 for the short to near term?
 
NZ516
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:18 pm

evanb wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
OQJ on its way now. Is this a normal spare few hours in the fleet plan? Or have things been jigged around a bit?


There is some short term slack in the fleet now that they're up to six active aircraft. The current schedule only requires five aircraft, but they have been utilising the sixth for some training flights. The schedule requirement will increase to six in March when SYD-HKG goes to A380.

Even then, there is some daytime slack with one of the five spending about 9 hours on the ground in SYD each day, although that would be a tight squeeze on an SYD-AKL-SYD turn.


The A380 also has a long layover in LAX where maintenance is carried out. Sometimes it arrives around 0700 and leave around 2300. The LHR layover is fairly long too around 0630-2100 but they have to use the slot times that they have.
 
NZ516
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:45 pm

Speaking of -VKL the aircraft is enroute MEL-PUS under go wing repaint works. Will be out of action for the next few weeks.


If JQ will be down one 787 for a few weeks and add in the line maintenance checks. They won't have enough slack in the fleet to cover the whole schedule so we might see rolling delays to all flying. Unless they substitute a 321 in lieu of a 787.
 
sweetdreams
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:49 pm

evanb wrote:
sweetdreams wrote:
new FJ fares to everywhere starting with lowest fares that includes no checked bag. Sign of the times, recession kicking in & they need to have lower fares out there. How much luggage do you need to go to Fiji for a week ?


That's one hell of a leap of faith regarding it being due to a recession. Also, what recession? FWIW, not a single financial institution is prediction a negative quarter of economic growth in Australia this year, so nowhere close to a recession. I'd put this purely as a marketing/pricing strategy for FJ. It's common place in the US nowadays for the "basic economy fares" on some routes on mainline carriers. It's been around for several years and had nothing to do with recession but rather fare segmentation and price discrimination.

While one certainly doesn't need a lot of luggage for a week's holiday in Fiji, Fijian's traveling to Australia, including migrant workers, and Fijian Australians tend to carry a lot of shopping home with them. Same for expats in Fiji on the notorious "shopping runs".
like real estate agents, financial institutions want you to keep spending money. They will say anything that promotes that silly idea.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:27 am

Fuling wrote:
getluv wrote:
Speaking of QFLink fleet replacements, the Fokkers, Dash 8-200s and the 8-300s are getting on. I know they are have low rotations and nothing as old as the ZL Saabs but they're going to have to start making plans to move these along soon.


The only real replacement for the Dash 8-200 would be the ATR 42 (very close in dimensions with 6 extra seats) for the LDH services. No idea about the 8-300s. The A220-100 would be an ideal replacement for the Fokkers, but highly doubtful QF will invest that much into Network/the FIFO operations. Perhaps the E190 for the short to near term?


I wonder for the Dash why not hold off for a 5-10 years and go electric? Regionals is the only place it could work, seems a replacement now would be awkwardly.

How old are the F-100s compared to the 717? I’m surprised the 717 don’t end their days out west. A220 seems expensive for rather low utilisation. Maybe send older 320s out there? Over capacity can be offset but lower ownership costs?

I do wonder how Alliance ownership will play out - how many F100s do they have too? How is that QF takeover progressing?
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:39 am

smi0006 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
getluv wrote:
Speaking of QFLink fleet replacements, the Fokkers, Dash 8-200s and the 8-300s are getting on. I know they are have low rotations and nothing as old as the ZL Saabs but they're going to have to start making plans to move these along soon.


The only real replacement for the Dash 8-200 would be the ATR 42 (very close in dimensions with 6 extra seats) for the LDH services. No idea about the 8-300s. The A220-100 would be an ideal replacement for the Fokkers, but highly doubtful QF will invest that much into Network/the FIFO operations. Perhaps the E190 for the short to near term?


I wonder for the Dash why not hold off for a 5-10 years and go electric? Regionals is the only place it could work, seems a replacement now would be awkwardly.

How old are the F-100s compared to the 717? I’m surprised the 717 don’t end their days out west. A220 seems expensive for rather low utilisation. Maybe send older 320s out there? Over capacity can be offset but lower ownership costs?

I do wonder how Alliance ownership will play out - how many F100s do they have too? How is that QF takeover progressing?


Agree about the A220's being too expensive to the mining flights and how often they'd be sitting idle.

A little surprised some bargain basement A319s have turned up in WA as yet, realising there isn't a significant cost difference to an A320, but if an A320 is too big, then a subfleet of half a dozen A319s could be an option to bridge the gap, and have commonality for a few years.
VA has pretty much done the same with the Boeing option on 700s from KLM
 
NZ516
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:12 am

https://simpleflying.com/qantas-interna ... -analyzed/

Having a look at Qantas international operations.
AKL gets the most flights followed by SIN and then CHC is in 3rd place. About 1 in 5 of Qantas international departures is to AKL. The 737 is the most used internationally.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:37 am

I did a rough calculation, but I think the QF Group might have more seats between AU and NZ than NZ this coming winter before even factoring in the LA and EK codeshares.
 
JJWess
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:56 pm

Do we have any updates on QF's first A220? I assume that's still on track to be delivered this year...?
 
NZ516
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:59 pm

getluv wrote:
I did a rough calculation, but I think the QF Group might have more seats between AU and NZ than NZ this coming winter before even factoring in the LA and EK codeshares.


Just even though CHC they are already ahead currently with QF at 28 pw, NZ 23 pw and JQ 8 pw Tasman flights. This is of course before EK return next month.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:44 pm

tullamarine wrote:
The Rumour File on 3AW this suggested announced that Jetstar has advised customers that it will cease flying to Vietnam (SGN) from late May. Not sure if this is just MEL-SGN or SYD also.

This has been clarified by Jetstar. JQ will continue to serve SGN from MEL and SYD. It is 3K which is ceasing services to SGN from SIN. 3K continues to shrink.
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:33 am

JJWess wrote:
Do we have any updates on QF's first A220? I assume that's still on track to be delivered this year...?


Very much in motion. Sim to be delivered soon and I’ve heard that a few pilots are already trained.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:44 am

tullamarine wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The Rumour File on 3AW this suggested announced that Jetstar has advised customers that it will cease flying to Vietnam (SGN) from late May. Not sure if this is just MEL-SGN or SYD also.

This has been clarified by Jetstar. JQ will continue to serve SGN from MEL and SYD. It is 3K which is ceasing services to SGN from SIN. 3K continues to shrink.


For QF, does 3K serve any strategic purpose anymore?
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:35 am

qf2220 wrote:
For QF, does 3K serve any strategic purpose anymore?


Certainly not a strategic purpose. However, it is an independent subsidiary in which their stake is only 49%, so they have limited control apart from the franchise agreement.
 
utaussiefan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:36 am

qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The Rumour File on 3AW this suggested announced that Jetstar has advised customers that it will cease flying to Vietnam (SGN) from late May. Not sure if this is just MEL-SGN or SYD also.

This has been clarified by Jetstar. JQ will continue to serve SGN from MEL and SYD. It is 3K which is ceasing services to SGN from SIN. 3K continues to shrink.


For QF, does 3K serve any strategic purpose anymore?

With the loss of Jetstar Pacific, there's very little feed into 3K now and with six airlines flying the route, not surprised they dropped it. Jetstar Asia probably only serves the small token transfers onto key Asian destinations such as the capital cities in Asia. It certainly lost its place post COVID.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:19 am

JQi Australian ops could theoretically take over SIN-HKT and BKK using the A321LRs (ex-ADL and/or PER) as a scissor hub operation with the JQ 787 from MEL.

There could be (minimal) theoretical connections from the East Coast on QF mainline (involving a Bus Transfer from T1 to T4) but any potential customers from the QF flights from the East Coast would be minimal at best when there are also the JQ MEL-BKK and SYD-HKT flights, despite both being less than daily.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:22 am

qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The Rumour File on 3AW this suggested announced that Jetstar has advised customers that it will cease flying to Vietnam (SGN) from late May. Not sure if this is just MEL-SGN or SYD also.

This has been clarified by Jetstar. JQ will continue to serve SGN from MEL and SYD. It is 3K which is ceasing services to SGN from SIN. 3K continues to shrink.


For QF, does 3K serve any strategic purpose anymore?


A token one.

For perspective, I think Jetstar Japan is 3x the fleet size of what Jetstar Asia has been reduced to.

Connections from QF to 3K in SIN are going to be slightly more inconvenient from next month too, when 3K (and JQ) move to SIN T4.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:48 am

Obzerva wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
This has been clarified by Jetstar. JQ will continue to serve SGN from MEL and SYD. It is 3K which is ceasing services to SGN from SIN. 3K continues to shrink.


For QF, does 3K serve any strategic purpose anymore?


A token one.

For perspective, I think Jetstar Japan is 3x the fleet size of what Jetstar Asia has been reduced to.

Connections from QF to 3K in SIN are going to be slightly more inconvenient from next month too, when 3K (and JQ) move to SIN T4.


3K was set up with a strategic purpose of being able to offer connections from QFs SIN hub that if would be otherwise be unable to offer on a P2P basis. Im sure with the arrival of the long haul A321s QF might be able to offer more of those P2P services.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:47 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

For QF, does 3K serve any strategic purpose anymore?


A token one.

For perspective, I think Jetstar Japan is 3x the fleet size of what Jetstar Asia has been reduced to.

Connections from QF to 3K in SIN are going to be slightly more inconvenient from next month too, when 3K (and JQ) move to SIN T4.


3K was set up with a strategic purpose of being able to offer connections from QFs SIN hub that if would be otherwise be unable to offer on a P2P basis. Im sure with the arrival of the long haul A321s QF might be able to offer more of those P2P services.


I'd say more likely JQ themselves with their A321LRs from ADL/PER or CNS as a scissor hub operation if QF 'Group' plans to retain some SE Asia 'Beach/Holiday' connections in SIN.
Last edited by SCFlyer on Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:48 am

evanb wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
For QF, does 3K serve any strategic purpose anymore?


Certainly not a strategic purpose. However, it is an independent subsidiary in which their stake is only 49%, so they have limited control apart from the franchise agreement.


QF leases them the aircraft too no? So withdraw the franchise agreement and the aircraft, theres not much left to write off and walk away from, if it came to that?
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:15 am

qf2220 wrote:
QF leases them the aircraft too no? So withdraw the franchise agreement and the aircraft, theres not much left to write off and walk away from, if it came to that?


Either leades or sub-leased. They've already taken quite a few back in the last few years. For the time being, as long as they're not having to provide cash flow they'll probably just leave it up to Westbrook, but I don't see QF putting anything else into it. They impaired the entire value of Jetstar Asia in the 2021 financial year, so they have already taken the hit.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:04 am

evanb wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
QF leases them the aircraft too no? So withdraw the franchise agreement and the aircraft, theres not much left to write off and walk away from, if it came to that?


Either leades or sub-leased. They've already taken quite a few back in the last few years. For the time being, as long as they're not having to provide cash flow they'll probably just leave it up to Westbrook, but I don't see QF putting anything else into it. They impaired the entire value of Jetstar Asia in the 2021 financial year, so they have already taken the hit.


Honestly a real shame, it gave a lot of reach to QF and really make SIN into a hub that not many other airlines have overseas in this day and age.

That being said with Scoot constantly rising, Airasia and all the other lowcost airlines in the region from T’way, Zipair, GBA, Vietjet etc its increasingly harder for them to compete for a pie that whilst growing again had shrunk so much due to covid.

For SIN based QFFs it was great to have lounge access and I always had a soft spot for the OKA route as it allowed through ticketing to KIX and NRT with Jetstar japan.

Part of SGN being dropped is maybe also due to the demise of Jetstar pacific.
 
YSSYplanespoter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:27 am

Get this: VPD took off from DRW this afternoon after its diversion a few days ago. 1.5 hrs into its flight, it's now returning to DRW......
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:31 am

YSSYplanespoter wrote:
Get this: VPD took off from DRW this afternoon after its diversion a few days ago. 1.5 hrs into its flight, it's now returning to DRW......


Someone read her the comment on another forum that said it's being scrapped in Europe!? She really doesn't wanna leave, huh!

JJWess wrote:
Do we have any updates on QF's first A220? I assume that's still on track to be delivered this year...?


I was told a couple of weeks ago first delivery in October with a total of 4 frames expected in 2023. Internal source so I assume it is correct, but do take it with a pinch of salt. Supply chain issues haven't been kind to A220 production either.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:39 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
YSSYplanespoter wrote:
Get this: VPD took off from DRW this afternoon after its diversion a few days ago. 1.5 hrs into its flight, it's now returning to DRW......


Someone read her the comment on another forum that said it's being scrapped in Europe!? She really doesn't wanna leave, huh!

JJWess wrote:
Do we have any updates on QF's first A220? I assume that's still on track to be delivered this year...?


I was told a couple of weeks ago first delivery in October with a total of 4 frames expected in 2023. Internal source so I assume it is correct, but do take it with a pinch of salt. Supply chain issues haven't been kind to A220 production either.


ex-VPD was reported to be going to Qatar Airways, but with the kiss and makeup between QR and Airbus in regards to the A350 order, even that aircraft's future is still in question.
 
a320fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:05 am

SCFlyer wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:

A token one.

For perspective, I think Jetstar Japan is 3x the fleet size of what Jetstar Asia has been reduced to.

Connections from QF to 3K in SIN are going to be slightly more inconvenient from next month too, when 3K (and JQ) move to SIN T4.


3K was set up with a strategic purpose of being able to offer connections from QFs SIN hub that if would be otherwise be unable to offer on a P2P basis. Im sure with the arrival of the long haul A321s QF might be able to offer more of those P2P services.


I'd say more likely JQ themselves with their A321LRs from ADL/PER or CNS as a scissor hub operation if QF 'Group' plans to retain some SE Asia 'Beach/Holiday' connections in SIN.


JQ tried a scissor hub in DRW around 2010is. It didn’t last too long.
 
JJWess
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:17 am

 
tsurumaru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:41 am

JJWess wrote:
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/adelaide-airport-chief-outlines-grand-plan-to-fly-direct-to-37-major-world-cities/news-story/dda019f53102984c19734f2b3ddbf22a

Anyone got access?


Not able to read the article either, but considering Adelaide already has regular services to 30 or so airports, an extra seven destinations isn't at all unrealistic. A few domestic adds and a couple of new international routes sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Any word on when Cathay will return?
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:47 am

Most 'wish-list' routes will likely will have to be negotiated with the airlines in question and funded 'in partnership' with the State of South Australia and Adelaide Airport through that state's Aviation Funds.
 
tsurumaru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:05 am

Bonza's fourth MAX (VH-UKH) has touched down in MCY and will be used to start flights from their second base in MEL. Bonza have gone for something a bit less 'ocker' and have named -UKH 'Malc', albeit for a rather sad reason.

https://www.facebook.com/flybonza/

jrfspa320 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

For QF, does 3K serve any strategic purpose anymore?


A token one.

For perspective, I think Jetstar Japan is 3x the fleet size of what Jetstar Asia has been reduced to.

Connections from QF to 3K in SIN are going to be slightly more inconvenient from next month too, when 3K (and JQ) move to SIN T4.


3K was set up with a strategic purpose of being able to offer connections from QFs SIN hub that if would be otherwise be unable to offer on a P2P basis. Im sure with the arrival of the long haul A321s QF might be able to offer more of those P2P services.


Not only this, but 3K's role as a feeder for other airlines has also diminished in recent years. Airlines like BA and AY can now funnel traffic through other hubs like DOH, and EK now do routes like Phuket and SGN direct - no need for a connection in SIN anymore.
 
monteycarlos
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:06 am

We haven't seen the last of 3K.
 
tsurumaru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:08 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Most 'wish-list' routes will likely will have to be negotiated with the airlines in question and funded 'in partnership' with the State of South Australia and Adelaide Airport through that state's Aviation Funds.


An opportunity for Bonza perhaps? They need to send their planes somewhere!
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:11 am

monteycarlos wrote:
We haven't seen the last of 3K.


Please go on....
 
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flyingphil
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:40 am

Not sure if this is old news.. but

x 2 BONZA 737 MAX8's at Tucson, AZ
    N9521B c/n 60388
    N959NQ c/n 61862

Image

https://flic.kr/p/2ohxeN3
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:57 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Honestly a real shame, it gave a lot of reach to QF and really make SIN into a hub that not many other airlines have overseas in this day and age.

That being said with Scoot constantly rising, Airasia and all the other lowcost airlines in the region from T’way, Zipair, GBA, Vietjet etc its increasingly harder for them to compete for a pie that whilst growing again had shrunk so much due to covid.

For SIN based QFFs it was great to have lounge access and I always had a soft spot for the OKA route as it allowed through ticketing to KIX and NRT with Jetstar japan.

Part of SGN being dropped is maybe also due to the demise of Jetstar pacific.


Agreed, although the market and QF have changed so much since its establishment. Consider that within a few years after its establishment, QF were routing daily SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-SIN-LHR and SYD-FRA-FRA through SIN, supplementing it with connecting PER-SIN, BNE-SIN and ADL-SIN. JQ were also feeding CNS-SIN, DRW-SIN, MEL-SIN and PER-SIN. In addition, BNE extended onto BOM! So SIN was in a good position to feed to and from additional regional routes, and advance from being a scissor hub.

But the world and market changed entirely. They dropped FRA and switched LHR flights to DXB. The ADL flight and extension to BOM was dropped. Scaled up SYD-CGK and SYD-MNL over time. All this reduced the critical mass and couldn't be supplemented by connecting traffic from third party airlines which they had less control of capacity and revenue management.

A point you highlight is that 3K was never able to build a legitimately independent low cost operation that could compete. Like Scoot (and Tiger) they could not really compete with AirAsia, Lion, Batik Air, Cebu Pacific, IndiGo, VietJet Air, etc who will always beat Scoot, Tiger and Jetstar Asia on cost structure. Even SQ folded Tiger into Scoot, and Scoot has been a mechanism for SQ to shift its own cost base.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:04 am

evanb wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Honestly a real shame, it gave a lot of reach to QF and really make SIN into a hub that not many other airlines have overseas in this day and age.

That being said with Scoot constantly rising, Airasia and all the other lowcost airlines in the region from T’way, Zipair, GBA, Vietjet etc its increasingly harder for them to compete for a pie that whilst growing again had shrunk so much due to covid.

For SIN based QFFs it was great to have lounge access and I always had a soft spot for the OKA route as it allowed through ticketing to KIX and NRT with Jetstar japan.

Part of SGN being dropped is maybe also due to the demise of Jetstar pacific.


Agreed, although the market and QF have changed so much since its establishment. Consider that within a few years after its establishment, QF were routing daily SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-SIN-LHR and SYD-FRA-FRA through SIN, supplementing it with connecting PER-SIN, BNE-SIN and ADL-SIN. JQ were also feeding CNS-SIN, DRW-SIN, MEL-SIN and PER-SIN. In addition, BNE extended onto BOM! So SIN was in a good position to feed to and from additional regional routes, and advance from being a scissor hub.

But the world and market changed entirely. They dropped FRA and switched LHR flights to DXB. The ADL flight and extension to BOM was dropped. Scaled up SYD-CGK and SYD-MNL over time. All this reduced the critical mass and couldn't be supplemented by connecting traffic from third party airlines which they had less control of capacity and revenue management.

A point you highlight is that 3K was never able to build a legitimately independent low cost operation that could compete. Like Scoot (and Tiger) they could not really compete with AirAsia, Lion, Batik Air, Cebu Pacific, IndiGo, VietJet Air, etc who will always beat Scoot, Tiger and Jetstar Asia on cost structure. Even SQ folded Tiger into Scoot, and Scoot has been a mechanism for SQ to shift its own cost base.

QF had an opportunity to set up SIN as a secondary hub but unfortunately lost the opportunity though, admittedly, it wasn't all their fault.. SIN was even encouraging it at one stage and wasn't really protecting SQ with a completely Open Skies policy.

RedQ was the initial strategy but it was doomed from the start as SQ would have always moved to crush a full-service carrier on its own turf. 3K was a logical vehicle but the ownership structure meant it was always under-invested. SQ also responded aggressively pouring resources into Scoot with both new 787 and A320NEOs acquired. In 2018, the QF SIN Scissor Hub strategy further fell apart when 9W went under and QF has never really satisfactorily filled the gap that left them with.

What is left is not without some use though it doesn't seem any of the owners are particularly interested and the forced move to T4 so Scoot can occupy the space in T1 seems to suggest that SIN has decided to side with the home-team.
 
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EK413
Posts: 6109
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:58 am

Sydney currently being hammered with heavy rain and thunderstorms.

QF28 SCL-SYD diverting to NTL
QF136 CHC-SYD diverting to BNE
QF164 WLG-SYD diverting to BNE
QF470 MEL-SYD returning to MEL
QF104 HNL-SYD holding
QF648 PER-SYD holding
QF190 TBU-SYD holding
QF545 BNE-SYD holding

QR908 DOH-SYD diverting to MEL
SQ241 SIN-SYD holding has since landed on rwy25

VA875 MEL-SYD holding
VA1420 CNS-SYD holding
JQ526 MEL-SYD holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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qf2220
Posts: 2491
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:02 am

At REX flight from Wagga hanging out over the upper Hunter Valley too. I've been on a S340 in weather like this. It's not pretty!
 
getluv
Posts: 697
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:03 am

The ownership structure of 3K was problematic, but to be fair, QF has had a number of financial issues over the past 15 years that they didn’t have the capital to really push the brand to scale. However, I actually think it’s a good thing that QF didn’t throw more money into it. AirAsia still makes huge losses despite record revenue, Scoot has just started making a profit again, but still lags the full parent by a country mile.

IMO, RedQ was the way to go. Targeting the rising middle-upper class across Asia would have made more sense.
 
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EK413
Posts: 6109
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:10 am

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mrkerr7474
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:10 am

EK413 wrote:
Sydney currently being hammered with heavy rain and thunderstorms.

QF28 SCL-SYD diverting to NTL
QF136 CHC-SYD diverting to BNE
QF164 WLG-SYD diverting to BNE
QF470 MEL-SYD returning to MEL
QF104 HNL-SYD holding
QF648 PER-SYD holding
QF190 TBU-SYD holding
QF545 BNE-SYD holding

QR908 DOH-SYD diverting to MEL
SQ241 SIN-SYD holding has since landed on rwy25

VA875 MEL-SYD holding
VA1420 CNS-SYD holding
JQ526 MEL-SYD holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


QF164 diverting to CFS (Coffs Harbour) according to flightradar24. I note the last flight there was 4pm local time, would anyone even be there to assist with the divert?
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 6109
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:13 am

mrkerr7474 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Sydney currently being hammered with heavy rain and thunderstorms.

QF28 SCL-SYD diverting to NTL
QF136 CHC-SYD diverting to BNE
QF164 WLG-SYD diverting to BNE
QF470 MEL-SYD returning to MEL
QF104 HNL-SYD holding
QF648 PER-SYD holding
QF190 TBU-SYD holding
QF545 BNE-SYD holding

QR908 DOH-SYD diverting to MEL
SQ241 SIN-SYD holding has since landed on rwy25

VA875 MEL-SYD holding
VA1420 CNS-SYD holding
JQ526 MEL-SYD holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


QF164 diverting to CFS (Coffs Harbour) according to flightradar24. I note the last flight there was 4pm local time, would anyone even be there to assist with the divert?

Thanks for the update, was hard to predict where the QF Tasman’s are diverting. The QF28 opting to divert to NTL indicates they were low on fuel otherwise BNE would’ve been the better option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 6109
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:13 am

mrkerr7474 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Sydney currently being hammered with heavy rain and thunderstorms.

QF28 SCL-SYD diverting to NTL
QF136 CHC-SYD diverting to BNE
QF164 WLG-SYD diverting to BNE
QF470 MEL-SYD returning to MEL
QF104 HNL-SYD holding
QF648 PER-SYD holding
QF190 TBU-SYD holding
QF545 BNE-SYD holding

QR908 DOH-SYD diverting to MEL
SQ241 SIN-SYD holding has since landed on rwy25

VA875 MEL-SYD holding
VA1420 CNS-SYD holding
JQ526 MEL-SYD holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


QF164 diverting to CFS (Coffs Harbour) according to flightradar24. I note the last flight there was 4pm local time, would anyone even be there to assist with the divert?

Thanks for the update, was hard to predict where the QF Tasman’s are diverting. The QF28 opting to divert to NTL indicates they were low on fuel otherwise BNE would’ve been the better option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mrkerr7474
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:21 am

EK413 wrote:
mrkerr7474 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Sydney currently being hammered with heavy rain and thunderstorms.

QF28 SCL-SYD diverting to NTL
QF136 CHC-SYD diverting to BNE
QF164 WLG-SYD diverting to BNE
QF470 MEL-SYD returning to MEL
QF104 HNL-SYD holding
QF648 PER-SYD holding
QF190 TBU-SYD holding
QF545 BNE-SYD holding

QR908 DOH-SYD diverting to MEL
SQ241 SIN-SYD holding has since landed on rwy25

VA875 MEL-SYD holding
VA1420 CNS-SYD holding
JQ526 MEL-SYD holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


QF164 diverting to CFS (Coffs Harbour) according to flightradar24. I note the last flight there was 4pm local time, would anyone even be there to assist with the divert?

Thanks for the update, was hard to predict where the QF Tasman’s are diverting. The QF28 opting to divert to NTL indicates they were low on fuel otherwise BNE would’ve been the better option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Definitely would be difficult to predict. Seems like an interesting alternative with the QF136 heading to BNE as a divert.

Weather slightly improved? Seems a few planes taking off now and others starting descent into SYD
 
User avatar
csturdiv
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:33 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:30 am

EK413 wrote:
Sydney currently being hammered with heavy rain and thunderstorms.

QF28 SCL-SYD diverting to NTL
QF136 CHC-SYD diverting to BNE
QF164 WLG-SYD diverting to BNE
QF470 MEL-SYD returning to MEL
QF104 HNL-SYD holding
QF648 PER-SYD holding
QF190 TBU-SYD holding
QF545 BNE-SYD holding

QR908 DOH-SYD diverting to MEL
SQ241 SIN-SYD holding has since landed on rwy25

VA875 MEL-SYD holding
VA1420 CNS-SYD holding
JQ526 MEL-SYD holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Crazy, I don't live too far from SYD, just two stops away (if the trains are running) and it is dark here, but no rain.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:31 am

EK413 wrote:
mrkerr7474 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Sydney currently being hammered with heavy rain and thunderstorms.

QF28 SCL-SYD diverting to NTL
QF136 CHC-SYD diverting to BNE
QF164 WLG-SYD diverting to BNE
QF470 MEL-SYD returning to MEL
QF104 HNL-SYD holding
QF648 PER-SYD holding
QF190 TBU-SYD holding
QF545 BNE-SYD holding

QR908 DOH-SYD diverting to MEL
SQ241 SIN-SYD holding has since landed on rwy25

VA875 MEL-SYD holding
VA1420 CNS-SYD holding
JQ526 MEL-SYD holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


QF164 diverting to CFS (Coffs Harbour) according to flightradar24. I note the last flight there was 4pm local time, would anyone even be there to assist with the divert?

Thanks for the update, was hard to predict where the QF Tasman’s are diverting. The QF28 opting to divert to NTL indicates they were low on fuel otherwise BNE would’ve been the better option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interested to know why Brisbane would be better. It's a storm and it will pass and it's nowhere near curfew. It'll be a 15 minute jaunt down to SYD.

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