Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 13750
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:48 pm

waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Update on Jetstar's next A321LR's

OFS had its second test flight on 14 Feb, would think this would be delivered of the month
OFU had engines installed after painting and was spotted on 8 Feb, would think this isnt too far away from flight testing
OFV rolled out of final assembly on the 11 February


I do fond this interesting. Seeing AJ was saying Perth airport was stopping expansion, tho some of these aircraft could be used.

Doesn't Jetstar fly from Terminal 1 at Perth? So none of these are being used into South-East asia? Including say Jakarta which they couldn't get up an running with QF.
Just saying.


Yes JQ uses T1 for international. I would imagine that the A321LR and the A321XLR when delivered could open up several routes for either QF/JQ ex PER whether that could possibly be to PER-AKL, PER-BKK, PER-SGN, PER-HKG, PER-BLR to name a few

https://investor.qantas.com/FormBuilder ... ps.pfg.pdf

Regarding India, a couple of things I would like to add

Vistara has just taken delivery of their first A321LR and BLR-PER would be within reach with the A321LR

In Air India's massive order last week they indicated that they had plans to serve every major airport in the world so you would think AI would like at both BNE and PER in the future
 
a320fan
Posts: 1197
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:38 am

Flew out of SYD this morning and looking across at INTL there seemed to be significant delays on arrivals getting gate access. AA from LAX waited on the taxiway 50 minutes, JQ from DPS even longer than that, UA from LAX for over half an hour, and NZ from AKL was waiting when I departed. On Climbout from 34L it was pretty clear there were no empty gates at T1.
Regular occurrence? Or perhaps some leftover chaos from the weekends storm?
 
smi0006
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:04 am

a320fan wrote:
Flew out of SYD this morning and looking across at INTL there seemed to be significant delays on arrivals getting gate access. AA from LAX waited on the taxiway 50 minutes, JQ from DPS even longer than that, UA from LAX for over half an hour, and NZ from AKL was waiting when I departed. On Climbout from 34L it was pretty clear there were no empty gates at T1.
Regular occurrence? Or perhaps some leftover chaos from the weekends storm?


Regular occurrence during the morning peak - late arrivals or delays hog bays and it all falls apart from there….
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:08 am

smi0006 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Flew out of SYD this morning and looking across at INTL there seemed to be significant delays on arrivals getting gate access. AA from LAX waited on the taxiway 50 minutes, JQ from DPS even longer than that, UA from LAX for over half an hour, and NZ from AKL was waiting when I departed. On Climbout from 34L it was pretty clear there were no empty gates at T1.
Regular occurrence? Or perhaps some leftover chaos from the weekends storm?


Regular occurrence during the morning peak - late arrivals or delays hog bays and it all falls apart from there….

International Ops have quickly returned to pre-covid 1st wave levels with lack of bays, late on bay tows, the list goes on…
SWZ can’t come soon enough to provide some much needed relief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ArtV
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:29 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:16 am

EK413 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Flew out of SYD this morning and looking across at INTL there seemed to be significant delays on arrivals getting gate access. AA from LAX waited on the taxiway 50 minutes, JQ from DPS even longer than that, UA from LAX for over half an hour, and NZ from AKL was waiting when I departed. On Climbout from 34L it was pretty clear there were no empty gates at T1.
Regular occurrence? Or perhaps some leftover chaos from the weekends storm?


Regular occurrence during the morning peak - late arrivals or delays hog bays and it all falls apart from there….

International Ops have quickly returned to pre-covid 1st wave levels with lack of bays, late on bay tows, the list goes on…
SWZ can’t come soon enough to provide some much needed relief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Given that a significant part of the problem is staffing shortages across the board, i do hope that by the time SWZ comes on line that these issues (across the economy generally) have been resolved, or we will have an airport that is partly crippled before it starts.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:39 am

ArtV wrote:
EK413 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Regular occurrence during the morning peak - late arrivals or delays hog bays and it all falls apart from there….

International Ops have quickly returned to pre-covid 1st wave levels with lack of bays, late on bay tows, the list goes on…
SWZ can’t come soon enough to provide some much needed relief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Given that a significant part of the problem is staffing shortages across the board, i do hope that by the time SWZ comes on line that these issues (across the economy generally) have been resolved, or we will have an airport that is partly crippled before it starts.

Problem within the aviation industry across the board is pay… once they start paying airline/airport staff accordingly then the staffing issues will hopefully be resolved…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
freshwater
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:04 am

EK413 wrote:
ArtV wrote:
EK413 wrote:
International Ops have quickly returned to pre-covid 1st wave levels with lack of bays, late on bay tows, the list goes on…
SWZ can’t come soon enough to provide some much needed relief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Given that a significant part of the problem is staffing shortages across the board, i do hope that by the time SWZ comes on line that these issues (across the economy generally) have been resolved, or we will have an airport that is partly crippled before it starts.

Problem within the aviation industry across the board is pay… once they start paying airline/airport staff accordingly then the staffing issues will hopefully be resolved…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And pay for quality and experience rather than some of the dead wood currently hanging around SYD
 
Aviator34ID
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:34 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:02 pm

A problem perhaps is there will never be any co-operation from unions to get rid of dead wood.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3653
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:16 pm

With the tightness in the labour market if you can't get a payrise right now you'll never get one.

Key problem in NSW is that the massive infrastructure spending and the lack of backpackers and seasonal workers means that the unskilled labour pool is pretty much tapped out. So even with increased pay it'll be difficult for airports to attract casual workers when their is easier, better paying and less physical work around.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:35 pm

Sydscott wrote:
With the tightness in the labour market if you can't get a payrise right now you'll never get one.

Key problem in NSW is that the massive infrastructure spending and the lack of backpackers and seasonal workers means that the unskilled labour pool is pretty much tapped out. So even with increased pay it'll be difficult for airports to attract casual workers when their is easier, better paying and less physical work around.

Exactly my point there are better paying less physical work out there.

A casual traffic controller (lollipop traffic controller what ever they are called) can earn up to $3000 a week!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3653
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:20 am

EK413 wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
With the tightness in the labour market if you can't get a payrise right now you'll never get one.

Key problem in NSW is that the massive infrastructure spending and the lack of backpackers and seasonal workers means that the unskilled labour pool is pretty much tapped out. So even with increased pay it'll be difficult for airports to attract casual workers when their is easier, better paying and less physical work around.

Exactly my point there are better paying less physical work out there.

A casual traffic controller (lollipop traffic controller what ever they are called) can earn up to $3000 a week!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where do I sign up? For that cash and less stress I'll take it!! haha
 
evanb
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:44 am

EK413 wrote:
Exactly my point there are better paying less physical work out there.

A casual traffic controller (lollipop traffic controller what ever they are called) can earn up to $3000 a week!


Ah, yes, the over generalisation of a tabloid paper that anyone could be earning $3000 per week doing very little. However, what that omits is that in order to earn $3000 a week, one has to work about 60 hours in the week, work the whole Saturday and Sunday in order to get overtime pay, and that you work outside, rain or shine, thunderstorm or 40 degree heat. What these articles also omit is that most of these jobs come with relatively limited hours that are beyond your control. It's tough to make $3000 a week as a traffic controller from a local school that pays for only two hours a day, only weekdays with no overtime.
 
evanb
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:51 am

EK413 wrote:
Regular occurrence during the morning peak - late arrivals or delays hog bays and it all falls apart from there….

International Ops have quickly returned to pre-covid 1st wave levels with lack of bays, late on bay tows, the list goes on…
SWZ can’t come soon enough to provide some much needed relief.[/quote]

I don't expect many of T1 customers to shift to SWZ, and certainly not a meaningful number to alleviate congestion at SYD. It'll be domestic ops that will shift to SWZ and those slots that become available as a result will immediately get taken up. For example, whatever flights JQ shift to SWZ will just be taken up by additional QF flights.
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1782
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:13 am

evanb wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Exactly my point there are better paying less physical work out there.

A casual traffic controller (lollipop traffic controller what ever they are called) can earn up to $3000 a week!


Ah, yes, the over generalisation of a tabloid paper that anyone could be earning $3000 per week doing very little. However, what that omits is that in order to earn $3000 a week, one has to work about 60 hours in the week, work the whole Saturday and Sunday in order to get overtime pay, and that you work outside, rain or shine, thunderstorm or 40 degree heat. What these articles also omit is that most of these jobs come with relatively limited hours that are beyond your control. It's tough to make $3000 a week as a traffic controller from a local school that pays for only two hours a day, only weekdays with no overtime.


I don't think I've ever seen a media article talking about what traffic controllers *can* earn which references a school crossing guard. That said, the reality is that base salary for traffic controllers is generally in the vicinity of $70k and, as you point out, it's the overtime and weekends that make it up to sometimes $3k/week ($156k/yr).

What your argument omits is that traffic controllers needn't finish school and can complete their training requirements in a matter of weeks. By contrast, for example, to become a paramedic requires (with, in a very small majority of cases, some exceptions) completion of year 12, a 3 year degree (with commensurate HECS debt) and a rigorous on-road transition training program. You then get to work 10-14 hour shifts outside in all weather, make complex life-and-death decisions (often alone) undertake hundreds of hours of CPD every year to maintain your certificate to practice (most of which duplicates the work you do and skills you use every day), pay back your HECS debt, and see things no human should ever have to see. And for that, even with allowances, extensive overtime and working up to 70 or 80 hours a week, you might just scrape into $90k a year. If the states can be bothered to adequately fund their ambulance service so you can get a job as a paramedic in the first place, which is a whole other issue all by itself. Similar goes for police, firefighters, nurses, teachers and more, and not all of those have the 'luxury' to top up their salary with large amounts of overtime.

Likewise, as per the original argument, ramp workers and others in the aviation industry are in the same situation as paramedics, if not worse (many aviation workers have trouble finding permanent full-time employment, for example), and are just as safety critical as a traffic controller.

I'm sure you can see more clearly which side the inequity exists on now. And no, I'm absolutely not trying to downplay the important role of traffic controllers.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3830
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:49 am

The airports and airlines really have no one to blame but themselves for their issues in finding staff. Probably advised by some "wet behind the ears" consultant from McKinseys, BCG etc, they seem to have believed they could downgrade the pay and conditions of non-customer facing staff without affecting the customer experience so vast swathes of maintenance and ground staff were retrenched and replaced by outsourced contractors.

These jobs have always been quite unpleasant in difficult conditions and with unusual hours but people were attracted as they got what they thought was a secure job with a large company and some decent ancillary benefits such as staff travel etc. Now these roles are outsourced, most of the benefits have been eliminated, the pay has been reduced, job security has been removed and shifts are now split so you may be required to be near the airport for over 12 hours to do 8 hours paid work. No wonder people have sought greener pastures.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:11 am

EK413 wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
With the tightness in the labour market if you can't get a payrise right now you'll never get one.

Key problem in NSW is that the massive infrastructure spending and the lack of backpackers and seasonal workers means that the unskilled labour pool is pretty much tapped out. So even with increased pay it'll be difficult for airports to attract casual workers when their is easier, better paying and less physical work around.

Exactly my point there are better paying less physical work out there.

A casual traffic controller (lollipop traffic controller what ever they are called) can earn up to $3000 a week!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here’s the article, take which ever way you wish.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... y-pay.html

Personally the pay level across a number of industries need to be reviewed and adjust accordingly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
vhebb
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:16 am

Numerous QF lounge upgrades announced both in Australia and overseas:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-london/
 
melpax
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:26 am

Bonza's first AVV flight today, now heading back home to MCY

https://www.flightradar24.com/BNZ570/2f46046e
 
smi0006
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:31 am

vhebb wrote:
Numerous QF lounge upgrades announced both in Australia and overseas:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-london/


Nice work - shame Melbourne isn’t changing location though…. They should have jumped at the Marhaba lounge, and EY lounge space when EK moved…

Auckland looks amazing, and good to see London get a dedicated F lounge! Just leave HNL as offershore lounges needing a refurb?

Great to see HBA getting some love! Hopefully next up SYD-Club and J lounge!
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3830
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:57 am

smi0006 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Numerous QF lounge upgrades announced both in Australia and overseas:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-london/


Nice work - shame Melbourne isn’t changing location though…. They should have jumped at the Marhaba lounge, and EY lounge space when EK moved…

Auckland looks amazing, and good to see London get a dedicated F lounge! Just leave HNL as offershore lounges needing a refurb?

Great to see HBA getting some love! Hopefully next up SYD-Club and J lounge!

I don't think the Marhaba Lounge is big enough. It is only about the same size of the QF F Lounge so probably wouldn't be enough for a lounge having to cover J Class, Gold FFs and Qantas Club members.

After the effort on the MEL Qantas Club, I wouldn't expect much for SYD or HBA.
 
vhebb
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:37 am

QF HNL lounge got a little make over recently.
 
JJWess
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:09 am

So are they relocating the QF Intl Business lounge in Syd, or will it remain in the same location but just somehow bigger?
 
qf002
Posts: 3748
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:58 am

JJWess wrote:
So are they relocating the QF Intl Business lounge in Syd, or will it remain in the same location but just somehow bigger?


Same location, bigger footprint. Exactly how they will expand the footprint is not yet clear but the press release refers to airport redevelopment plans so clearly there will be some work involved.
 
moa999
Posts: 1283
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:10 pm

I think QF Syd J is related to expansion of the terminal I to the former freight bays.

Equally in MEL, QF will be taking over the former CX space in the basement.
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 1588
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:36 pm

Scoot will suspend their SIN-OOL services indefinitely as from July 2023. It seems that OOL didn't meet expectations to continue past the AAIF subsidised period.

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/pdf/ ... fy2223.pdf (Page 5)
 
smi0006
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:15 pm

tullamarine wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Numerous QF lounge upgrades announced both in Australia and overseas:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-london/


Nice work - shame Melbourne isn’t changing location though…. They should have jumped at the Marhaba lounge, and EY lounge space when EK moved…

Auckland looks amazing, and good to see London get a dedicated F lounge! Just leave HNL as offershore lounges needing a refurb?

Great to see HBA getting some love! Hopefully next up SYD-Club and J lounge!

I don't think the Marhaba Lounge is big enough. It is only about the same size of the QF F Lounge so probably wouldn't be enough for a lounge having to cover J Class, Gold FFs and Qantas Club members.

After the effort on the MEL Qantas Club, I wouldn't expect much for SYD or HBA.


Sorry I meant the combined EY/Marhaba space. When MEL expended the third floor for EY/EK lounges would have been ideal for QF - but they were unwilling to pay the rent increase…. I wonder if they will take over the CX lounge now? Surprises me they keep a lounge open in MEL.

I don’t mind the MEL- Club, is what it is. HBA is so dire feels like a zoo enclosure couldn’t be any worse than it it is now!
 
mrkerr7474
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:49 pm

moa999 wrote:
I think QF Syd J is related to expansion of the terminal I to the former freight bays.

Equally in MEL, QF will be taking over the former CX space in the basement.


Where did the freighter flights move to?

It's a pity QF couldn't find room upstairs at MEL to create a new lounge with at least a single window to the outside world
 
zkncj
Posts: 5064
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:51 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
Scoot will suspend their SIN-OOL services indefinitely as from July 2023. It seems that OOL didn't meet expectations to continue past the AAIF subsidised period.

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/pdf/ ... fy2223.pdf (Page 5)


Interesting so the hope of D7 returning to OOL, must be pretty low now too?
 
User avatar
Goodbye
Posts: 1002
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 1:41 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:37 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
Scoot will suspend their SIN-OOL services indefinitely as from July 2023. It seems that OOL didn't meet expectations to continue past the AAIF subsidised period.

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/pdf/ ... fy2223.pdf (Page 5)


Oh wow, SE QLD really is languishing quite a bit now with the diminishing number of routes to SE Asia.
 
evanb
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:48 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen a media article talking about what traffic controllers *can* earn which references a school crossing guard. That said, the reality is that base salary for traffic controllers is generally in the vicinity of $70k and, as you point out, it's the overtime and weekends that make it up to sometimes $3k/week ($156k/yr).

What your argument omits is that traffic controllers needn't finish school and can complete their training requirements in a matter of weeks. By contrast, for example, to become a paramedic requires (with, in a very small majority of cases, some exceptions) completion of year 12, a 3 year degree (with commensurate HECS debt) and a rigorous on-road transition training program. You then get to work 10-14 hour shifts outside in all weather, make complex life-and-death decisions (often alone) undertake hundreds of hours of CPD every year to maintain your certificate to practice (most of which duplicates the work you do and skills you use every day), pay back your HECS debt, and see things no human should ever have to see. And for that, even with allowances, extensive overtime and working up to 70 or 80 hours a week, you might just scrape into $90k a year. If the states can be bothered to adequately fund their ambulance service so you can get a job as a paramedic in the first place, which is a whole other issue all by itself. Similar goes for police, firefighters, nurses, teachers and more, and not all of those have the 'luxury' to top up their salary with large amounts of overtime.

Likewise, as per the original argument, ramp workers and others in the aviation industry are in the same situation as paramedics, if not worse (many aviation workers have trouble finding permanent full-time employment, for example), and are just as safety critical as a traffic controller.

I'm sure you can see more clearly which side the inequity exists on now. And no, I'm absolutely not trying to downplay the important role of traffic controllers.


I think you missed my point. I'm not making a comparison. I'm simply suggesting an article from news.com.au (yes, that is verbatim the $3k/week can be found) that highlighted one individual doesn't represent earnings in the sector. One person did well to get a higher rate of pay and then exploit that with dramatically more hours and overtime than is normal. This is not replicable as a generalisation whereas the salaries and hours you noted is replicable as a generalisation in those other sectors.

Rather than going down the path of what people can earn and the hours they can work, I prefer to look at actual data. The ABS Labor Market Insights data (a little dated sometimes) shows that only 48% of people employed as Road Traffic Controllers work full-time hours, median age is 45 years (significantly higher than the average). They don't have average earnings, but Indeed shows average hourly pay is in the low 30s per hour rather than the mid-40s that the lovely young lady in the news.com.au was earning. The ABS Labor Market Insights data shows that Ambulance Officers and Paramedics had full time hours, earning an average weekly earnings before tax of $2,333. Assuming the low 30s that Indeed mention (say $33), one would need to work 70 hours per week to do that (maybe 60 with overtime), yet only 48% of Road Traffic Controllers have full time hours. Doesn't seem that - as a generalisation - Road Traffic Controllers are going to be earning near Ambulance Officers and Paramedics. Given the general tightness in the labor market, it's unlikely that if they were all earning $3k/week that this wage would persist.

I do agree that there are huge inequities in the labor market at the moment. A challenge is that you can get a 187, 190, 407, 482, 489, 491 and 494 visa as a paramedics so labor supply can be fulfilled by immigrants, but that the old pathways for unskilled labor (like road traffic controllers) are still undersupplied.
 
NZ516
Posts: 2119
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:59 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
Scoot will suspend their SIN-OOL services indefinitely as from July 2023. It seems that OOL didn't meet expectations to continue past the AAIF subsidised period.

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/pdf/ ... fy2223.pdf (Page 5)


It's a real shame for OOL to lose this link to SIN. They could have tried a 321 if the demand was too low for a 787. Instead of pulling out completely.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 1010
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:08 pm

NZ516 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Scoot will suspend their SIN-OOL services indefinitely as from July 2023. It seems that OOL didn't meet expectations to continue past the AAIF subsidised period.

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/pdf/ ... fy2223.pdf (Page 5)


It's a real shame for OOL to lose this link to SIN. They could have tried a 321 if the demand was too low for a 787. Instead of pulling out completely.


TR only have the standard A321NEO in a dense layout, don't think it could do OOL-SIN without significant restrictions.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:10 pm

zkncj wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Scoot will suspend their SIN-OOL services indefinitely as from July 2023. It seems that OOL didn't meet expectations to continue past the AAIF subsidised period.

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/pdf/ ... fy2223.pdf (Page 5)


Interesting so the hope of D7 returning to OOL, must be pretty low now too?


Just tried a random date in August on the AirAsia website, they're selling tickets on the OOL-KUL flight currently.
 
JJWess
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:36 pm

"Meanwhile, seat designs for the Project Sunrise planes will be revealed later this week, Joyce said."
Found this in the 9 News article for the lounge expansion.
Do we know which day this week this is set to happen? I believe QF are also announcing their profits as well...?
 
utaussiefan
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:26 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:24 am

JJWess wrote:
"Meanwhile, seat designs for the Project Sunrise planes will be revealed later this week, Joyce said."
Found this in the 9 News article for the lounge expansion.
Do we know which day this week this is set to happen? I believe QF are also announcing their profits as well...?

I believe it's the 23rd February, tomorrow.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3830
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:47 am

utaussiefan wrote:
JJWess wrote:
"Meanwhile, seat designs for the Project Sunrise planes will be revealed later this week, Joyce said."
Found this in the 9 News article for the lounge expansion.
Do we know which day this week this is set to happen? I believe QF are also announcing their profits as well...?

I believe it's the 23rd February, tomorrow.

It's the end of half-year reporting season so results are coming in a bit of a rush. Both QF (QAN) and NZ (AIZ) are reporting tomorrow. Alliance (AQZ) reported last week. ZL (REX) hasn't reported yet; there are no details on their website as to when they will report but it has to be by 28/2. As it is not listed at the moment, VA does not report results though they will definitely release them in the next few months if they choose to IPO this year.
 
getluv
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:50 am

QF will want to drown out their "huge" profit result tomorrow with distractions like seat designs.
 
JJWess
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:20 am

I wonder if we’ll get any route announcements… PER-CDG anyone? ;)
 
smi0006
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:22 am

tullamarine wrote:
utaussiefan wrote:
JJWess wrote:
"Meanwhile, seat designs for the Project Sunrise planes will be revealed later this week, Joyce said."
Found this in the 9 News article for the lounge expansion.
Do we know which day this week this is set to happen? I believe QF are also announcing their profits as well...?

I believe it's the 23rd February, tomorrow.

It's the end of half-year reporting season so results are coming in a bit of a rush. Both QF (QAN) and NZ (AIZ) are reporting tomorrow. Alliance (AQZ) reported last week. ZL (REX) hasn't reported yet; there are no details on their website as to when they will report but it has to be by 28/2. As it is not listed at the moment, VA does not report results though they will definitely release them in the next few months if they choose to IPO this year.


Hope QF also reveal the seats and cabin for the A220, but knowing QF they also will want to store some good news stories as a distraction from the next crisis.

Do fleet announcements get made mid year? Could we see some movement on the 789 options? Interesting the lounge details were released before the bumped profits…. Deffs cushioning the blow, and I suspect more announcements tomorrow too!
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3830
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:37 am

getluv wrote:
QF will want to drown out their "huge" profit result tomorrow with distractions like seat designs.

The politics of reporting a large profit may be tricky. You can expect calls from unions for better pay deals in upcoming negotiations and also calls from other groups asking if QF are going to pay back some of the government subsidies it received in 2020 and 2021.

There will also be the inevitable comments about low company tax payments which are often pretty ill-informed given QF will be offsetting against the accrued tax losses from the COVID years.

Finally, it is likely the shareholders will be looking for some clear guidance on when dividends will resume. The share price has recovered well in the past year but long-term shareholders have received growth well under that of the wider market as well as QAN didn't pay a dividend between 2009 and 2015 and hasn't paid a dividend since 2019 and has been criticised for share buybacks that have favored some of the many.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 13750
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:38 am

Effective 26 Mar 23, china Eastern to increase MEL to daily

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230221-mumel
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2509
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:45 am

tullamarine wrote:
and has been criticised for share buybacks that have favored some of the many.


Non aviation topic, but how does this work? Aren't share buy backs available to all shareholders?
 
smi0006
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:03 am

tullamarine wrote:
utaussiefan wrote:
JJWess wrote:
"Meanwhile, seat designs for the Project Sunrise planes will be revealed later this week, Joyce said."
Found this in the 9 News article for the lounge expansion.
Do we know which day this week this is set to happen? I believe QF are also announcing their profits as well...?

I believe it's the 23rd February, tomorrow.

It's the end of half-year reporting season so results are coming in a bit of a rush. Both QF (QAN) and NZ (AIZ) are reporting tomorrow. Alliance (AQZ) reported last week. ZL (REX) hasn't reported yet; there are no details on their website as to when they will report but it has to be by 28/2. As it is not listed at the moment, VA does not report results though they will definitely release them in the next few months if they choose to IPO this year.


Hope QF also reveal the seats and cabin for the A220, but knowing QF they also will want to store some good news stories as a distraction from the next crisis.

Do fleet announcements get made mid year? Could we see some movement on the 789 options? Interesting the lounge details were released before the bumped profits…. Deffs cushioning the blow, and I suspect more announcements tomorrow too!
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3830
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:14 am

qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
and has been criticised for share buybacks that have favored some of the many.


Non aviation topic, but how does this work? Aren't share buy backs available to all shareholders?

You're right, all shareholders can participate in a buyback but the payment structure tends to favour institutional shareholders whereas "mum and dad" shareholders would prefer to receive excess capital in the form of franked dividends. Qantas isn't alone in this criticism; many companies have been criticised for buybacks even more so where the buyback is funded by borrowed funds which has been very common in USA though less so in Australia.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3830
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:24 am

The Australian (paywall) is reporting that AJ has announced that QF international services will definitely have WiFi internet coverage from late 2025 when Sunrise services commence. He says it could possibly happen earlier on other planes earlier but gives no guarantee claiming it depends on launch of new satellites. He further reaffirms that WiFi will remain free of charge for all passengers which is very different from most other airlines who either charge everyone or only provide it free for F, J and high tier passengers.

Interestingly, QF could offer WiFi on some international services already being those operated by 738s or domestic A332s whilst they are flying over the Australian landmass but choose not to.
 
moa999
Posts: 1283
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:35 am

QF had previously said it would use ViaSat3 satellites, which is a constellation of three sats that has been delayed multiple times.

Americas sat schedule for 8 April on a SpaceX Falcon Heavy from Florida
EMEA scheduled for Q3 2023 on a ULA Ariane 6 from Florida.

And the final Asian sat sometime in 2024 on an Arianespace Ariane 6 from French Guiana.
(Note that the first Ariane 6 rocket isbyet to launch)
 
getluv
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:49 am

JJWess wrote:
I wonder if we’ll get any route announcements… PER-CDG anyone? ;)

If this happens, the news is probably embargoed.
 
evanb
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:01 am

tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
and has been criticised for share buybacks that have favored some of the many.


Non aviation topic, but how does this work? Aren't share buy backs available to all shareholders?

You're right, all shareholders can participate in a buyback but the payment structure tends to favour institutional shareholders whereas "mum and dad" shareholders would prefer to receive excess capital in the form of franked dividends. Qantas isn't alone in this criticism; many companies have been criticised for buybacks even more so where the buyback is funded by borrowed funds which has been very common in USA though less so in Australia.


How so? Share buybacks are purchased on the open market, not through a book build, so I don't see how it favours institutions. But who are those institutions anyway? They're generally just the shares that "mum and dad" own through their index tracker funds and supers, managed by "institutions" (sometimes at incredibly hefty fees, but that is a seperate issue). The advantage for "mum and dad" is that buybacks allow you to decide when to effectively chose whether or not to de facto reinvest the company's excess capital in the company pre-tax rather than being forced to take dividends which generates a taxable event. With buybacks, you can chose to hold on to your shares and not generate a taxable event. Also, which companies are borrowing to conduct buybacks? The prevalence of buybacks has increased because of the relative tax treatment but in an era (last decade or two) where companies have been criticised for sitting on large cash piles. Buybacks are ultimately a function of tax policy, but as someone who wants to reinvest rather than take dividends (for now), I'd rather companies conduct buybacks and I can chose when to sell.

The Qantas buyback attracts unfair criticism. In June 2020, fearing a catastrophic cash flow situation, Qantas went to market and raised approximately A$1.4 billion of cash by issuing a large number of new shares. Given that shares were trading at less than A$ 4 per share, it was an incredibly desperate act and showed how broken the debt market and aircraft securitisation was at the time. 2021 played out better than airlines had expected and Qantas had been successful in selling non core assets like the Mascot property (for A$ 800 million in October 2021) and debt markets and aircraft securitisation had begun to function a little better. They no longer needed this capital that they'd raised at incredible low share prices. In August 2022, they planned to return $A 400 million to shareholders through a buyback to reduce the dilution that the 2020 capita raise had caused. The share price at the time was still in the low $4 range, so it made sense to reduce the effects of the 2020 capital dilution. Four months later they cancelled the program a quarter of the way through since the share price had risen to above $5. At that price, it didn't make sense so Qantas used that capital to reduce some debt instead.
 
User avatar
Velocity7
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:22 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Scoot will suspend their SIN-OOL services indefinitely as from July 2023. It seems that OOL didn't meet expectations to continue past the AAIF subsidised period.

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/pdf/ ... fy2223.pdf (Page 5)


Scoot have operated to OOL since 2012 no? I think any AAIF would have long expired unless a new deal was done? Somewhat surprising - appears they gave it a good go
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2023

Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:45 am

QF A380 VH-OQH positioning SYD-LAX. Sources indicate this will allow QF to rotate the fleet & have an ops spare in LAX

Flight QF6013 from Sydney to Los Angeles
https://fr24.com/QFA6013/2f4905bc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos