BoeingGuy wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

That is horrible the way the passenger was treated. Would not fly American. They are awful and not customer service oriented. We need a passenger bill of rights. These big corporations do not care about people.

Nice of you to sat that without any of us knowing the facts. With so many of these stories, there is more to it. Plus, people have a habit of blaming other for their own poor judgement.

If I’m unable to lift my bag to the overhead bin then maybe I shouldn't bring it. But no, I’d rather blame the airline. No-one takes responsibility for themselves anymore. It’s always someone else’s fault.

After flying American it is not surprising to read they treated a cancer patient so poorly. It is gross we subsidize these massive corporations like American and then they treat passengers so poorly. So glad this made the news. We need the government to mandate more passenger protections in the U.S.

US GA's don't assist with baggage and it has been that way for decades. Back when I worked.for a carrier, the protocol was to call a baggage handler to assist with baggage but only if it was some sort of ACAA issue not just because the passenger couldn't lift it.

ZKCIF wrote:

I have a stupid question here (never worked for an airline, and that's a sincere question). In a narrowbody aircraft, I can understand that if Ryanair loses 1 out of 4 attendants, that's a huge deal as a 189-passenger plane cannot leave with 3 attendants. But their 77W have 304 seats. Does it make any real operational difference if it leaves not with (say) 14 but only 13 attendants except for the fact that the service is a bit slower and everyone's got a bit more workload? Is it really NOT allowed to leave legally?

Flights are legally required to have a certain amount of FAs before any passenger is on board. In the US it is 1 for every 50 installed seats or the number of FAs the airline use in the evacuation demonstration (if greater). Additionally, extra FAs are required for flights with extended duty time(§121.391 and §121.467).

Airlines rarely send more FAs than legally required. The only times I am aware of US airlines staffing more FAs than legally required is on premium transcons. DL will add 1 extra FA on premium transcons, AA will have 5 FAs on a 321T that is configured with 102 seats.

N1120A wrote:

There's a few things here to unpack.

2) If she received wheelchair assistance on board, why on earth didn't the person or people who wheeled her help? That IS part of their job.

It is not their job to lift bags either. The wheelchair people's job is to get the disabled passenger to/from their gate/seat not be their personal assistant. If you can't lift it or put it under your seat then it needs to be checked. Period.

It does speak volumes that no one on the plane offered to help this passenger; I suspect she behaved in a highly entitled manner.

usflyer msp wrote:

N1120A wrote:

There's a few things here to unpack.

2) If she received wheelchair assistance on board, why on earth didn't the person or people who wheeled her help? That IS part of their job.

It is not their job to lift bags either. The wheelchair people's job is to get the disabled passenger to/from their gate/seat not be their personal assistant. If you can't lift it or put it under your seat then it needs to be checked. Period.

It does speak volumes that no one on the plane offered to help this passenger; I suspect she behaved in a highly entitled manner.

How is it not their job? They certainly carry/wheel their bags for them.

questions wrote:

A lot of comments about potential injuries.

If FA’s are not “paid” while passengers are boarding, what is considered an on the job injury? When does that clock start?

It may fall under disability insurance which is slightly different to work comp

Pi7472000 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

That is horrible the way the passenger was treated. Would not fly American. They are awful and not customer service oriented. We need a passenger bill of rights. These big corporations do not care about people.

Nice of you to sat that without any of us knowing the facts. With so many of these stories, there is more to it. Plus, people have a habit of blaming other for their own poor judgement.

If I’m unable to lift my bag to the overhead bin then maybe I shouldn't bring it. But no, I’d rather blame the airline. No-one takes responsibility for themselves anymore. It’s always someone else’s fault.

After flying American it is not surprising to read they treated a cancer patient so poorly. It is gross we subsidize these massive corporations like American and then they treat passengers so poorly. So glad this made the news. We need the government to mandate more passenger protections in the U.S.

Funny, I have flown AA quite a bit and never had any of these issues with them. I flew AA to GUA most recently and the flights were quite nice.

Then again I’m not going around looking for things to complain about either. I’m also not looking to make a big spectacle in the media.

I also took responsibility for myself. I didn’t pack too heavy of a carry-on, then blame the airline that I can’t lift it. I didn’t book a foolishly short connection, then blame the airline because I missed my connection. I didn’t get to the airport way too late, then blame the airline that they wouldn’t let me board late. Etc, etc.

MDC862 wrote:

If you can't stow it, don't bring it.

I have seen many US crew members attempt to place the bags into bins and suffer an injury. If there are items needed during a flight bring a smaller bag.

I take it that lots of passengers must be suffering from injuries from lifting bags into bins as well, passengers are doing most of the lifting. With all those injuries to be expected I would assume several ambulances are on standby on each flight to take care of those injuries before departure. I have been on thousands of flights, and never seen anyone being injured on a flight by stowing a bag in the overhead bin, be it a passenger or a flight attendant.
I also take it, that outside of the US of A flight attendants would not hesitate to help a handicapped passenger stowing his or her bag. Most long range aircraft also have storage locations where no lifting is required either.
If that story is real, and attendants are not allowed to help out handicapped passengers since they may be injured, what happens if these same people have to open an aircraft door in an emergency that requires considerably more effort. They may get injured right there. Who are they going to sue?
So much for common sense...

N1120A wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

N1120A wrote:

There's a few things here to unpack.

2) If she received wheelchair assistance on board, why on earth didn't the person or people who wheeled her help? That IS part of their job.

It is not their job to lift bags either. The wheelchair people's job is to get the disabled passenger to/from their gate/seat not be their personal assistant. If you can't lift it or put it under your seat then it needs to be checked. Period.

It does speak volumes that no one on the plane offered to help this passenger; I suspect she behaved in a highly entitled manner.

How is it not their job? They certainly carry/wheel their bags for them.

Wheeling/transporting and lifting are two different things, just like they don't lift passengers.

MIflyer12 wrote:

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Its in their union contract they dont have to help. Its injury prevention. So the FA helps stow your overpacked heavy bag, gets injured right before departure. Flight canceled.

There's the quality of humanity and service professionalism: The contract says I don't have to.

Surely the FA could have found an able-bodied person to assist the passenger stowing a bag in an overhead.

Just so everyone is clear, if the Flight Attendant is injured (as has happened) and unable to work, it can be devastating. Not trying to sound nasty, but people are bringing way too much on the airplane and some do it with the expectation that everyone else should lift their bags for them. If you are unable to lift your bags (that you packed) that you managed to get all the way to the airplane then maybe consider checking them?

Heavierthanair wrote:

MDC862 wrote:

If you can't stow it, don't bring it.

I have seen many US crew members attempt to place the bags into bins and suffer an injury. If there are items needed during a flight bring a smaller bag.

I take it that lots of passengers must be suffering from injuries from lifting bags into bins as well, passengers are doing most of the lifting. With all those injuries to be expected I would assume several ambulances are on standby on each flight to take care of those injuries before departure. I have been on thousands of flights, and never seen anyone being injured on a flight by stowing a bag in the overhead bin, be it a passenger or a flight attendant.
I also take it, that outside of the US of A flight attendants would not hesitate to help a handicapped passenger stowing his or her bag. Most long range aircraft also have storage locations where no lifting is required either.
If that story is real, and attendants are not allowed to help out handicapped passengers since they may be injured, what happens if these same people have to open an aircraft door in an emergency that requires considerably more effort. They may get injured right there. Who are they going to sue?
So much for common sense...

In that "sense" you think an injured FA is going to be able to evacuate an aircraft....handicapped passengers and all?

BoeingGuy wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

Nice of you to sat that without any of us knowing the facts. With so many of these stories, there is more to it. Plus, people have a habit of blaming other for their own poor judgement.

If I’m unable to lift my bag to the overhead bin then maybe I shouldn't bring it. But no, I’d rather blame the airline. No-one takes responsibility for themselves anymore. It’s always someone else’s fault.

After flying American it is not surprising to read they treated a cancer patient so poorly. It is gross we subsidize these massive corporations like American and then they treat passengers so poorly. So glad this made the news. We need the government to mandate more passenger protections in the U.S.

Funny, I have flown AA quite a bit and never had any of these issues with them. I flew AA to GUA most recently and the flights were quite nice.

Then again I’m not going around looking for things to complain about either. I’m also not looking to make a big spectacle in the media.

I also took responsibility for myself. I didn’t pack too heavy of a carry-on, then blame the airline that I can’t lift it. I didn’t book a foolishly short connection, then blame the airline because I missed my connection. I didn’t get to the airport way too late, then blame the airline that they wouldn’t let me board late. Etc, etc.

Wow. You need to read the article instead of automatically blaming paying passengers. AA has received so much taxpayer funding and still treats passengers poorly.

Stories like this expose the horrible treatment passengers receive and things won't change without the media exposure. Why does AA sell short connections if they can't honor them? Would have been so easy to help this passenger and find a solution instead of what occurred. Sad to see the state of AA. We need much more government regulation to protect people like this passenger.

When an issue like this happens, usually the gate staff is called. I saw it multiple times. Gate agent comes in to deal with the bag. To either find a place for it or gate check it.
Does AA outsource gate handling in DEL?

It is very strange that none of the passengers helped.

Pi7472000 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

After flying American it is not surprising to read they treated a cancer patient so poorly. It is gross we subsidize these massive corporations like American and then they treat passengers so poorly. So glad this made the news. We need the government to mandate more passenger protections in the U.S.

Funny, I have flown AA quite a bit and never had any of these issues with them. I flew AA to GUA most recently and the flights were quite nice.

Then again I’m not going around looking for things to complain about either. I’m also not looking to make a big spectacle in the media.

I also took responsibility for myself. I didn’t pack too heavy of a carry-on, then blame the airline that I can’t lift it. I didn’t book a foolishly short connection, then blame the airline because I missed my connection. I didn’t get to the airport way too late, then blame the airline that they wouldn’t let me board late. Etc, etc.

Wow. You need to read the article instead of automatically blaming paying passengers. AA has received so much taxpayer funding and still treats passengers poorly.

Stories like this expose the horrible treatment passengers receive and things won't change without the media exposure. Why does AA sell short connections if they can't honor them? Would have been so easy to help this passenger and find a solution instead of what occurred. Sad to see the state of AA. We need much more government regulation to protect people like this passenger.

What exactly did the crew do that wrong and awful? They followed standard US rules and regulations and didn't kowtow to an entitled passenger. As I said, it speaks volumes that no passenger was willing to assist her even if just to avoid a delay.

I’m a little surprised at the reaction of some people.

The rule about not lifting a heavy carryon bag over one’s head into the overhead bin is to protect the Flight Attendant. If he/she is injured, she goes off duty with pay and starts a worker’s compensation investigation. It is tough on the F/A and expensive for the airline.

Yeah but, yeah but, everyone cries, the ME3 and some Asian airlines do it. The big difference is if a ME3 F/A is injured, she’s turfed, no pay, no help …… next. To those airlines, F/As are disposable. They have no unions, no compensation and no rights.

I’m honestly surprised that people feel that is the correct way to treat another human being.

I have seen that if the carryon bag is a reasonable size, the F/A assists. A few times, I have been called back during boarding to help. (I’m a competition body builder). But, i side with the feeling on here that if it is too heavy or cumbersome to handle, then maybe a passenger shouldn’t be carrying it.

I've seen AA go on a power trip a little too much unfortunately and it's a sorry state flying as a passenger with AA, I can totally understand the passengers gripe here as usually all airline crews provide assistance. Now if the AA flight attendants would have called for someone in the cabin to assist the passenger for stowing her luggage overhead it would have been good but has that been done here? I can confidently say no as AA flight attendants have been notorious for not utilizing their resources in a smart manner.

Some folks like to call AA FAs as kAArens and from here it's clear as to why

- Skyeye350

[twoid][/twoid]

JohanTally wrote:

Just out of curiosity what about all the passengers on the plane they all just sat there and watched this lady who needed assistance? If a fellow passenger asked me for help stowing a bag I wouldn't think twice. It seems as though there must be more to the story.

I have too- in 'first' class or what passes for it on US domestic flights. I can also understand that the flight attendants are probably discouraged from asking other passengers to assist. I suspect that they probably wanted her to put the bag under her seat. If she couldn't put it up without assistance, she would need it on arrival as well.
That said, all my colleagues who have been flying EU and ME airlines have all said the service is much better than US3.

DTWLAX wrote:

If this is true, very unprofessional behavior by the AA crew. I understand the crew does not need to stow bags for passengers but if somebody clearly is unable to do it, what is the harm in helping out?
I have observed this multiple times, flight attendants on US carriers do not help with stowing bags overhead but crew on many Asian and European carriers do that extra little bit to help passengers stow bags.

A few of the reasons why this happens. First I am sure is that their CBA specifically states they do NOT have to assist in stowing a bag in the overhead. Now after that is the myriad of state Workers Compensation laws which for flying crew can be a nightmare to navigate. In many cases the comp carrier can deny a claim for an injury incurred by doing work outside the scope of the employees work. In other words if my CBA specifically says putting a passengers bag in the overhead is NOT my job and I choose to help anyway and then say injure my shoulder the comp carrier will deny my claim due my injury being cause by an activity outside my scope of work and therefore not an "on the job" injury. I have personally seen this happen with a friend who was a CLE based FA for CO many years ago. It was exactly this scenario with an added bonus that the flight was EWR-IAH which now added CO's workers comp coverage in Ohio, New Jersey, and Texas all pointing at each other for who had jurisdiction. It took her almost a decade to get properly compensated by which time she had been out of work for so long she had to use her medical coverage to pay for the surgery and had to resign and change careers due no income replacement. She eventually sued and through litigation was eventually compensated, but by then her career had come to a premature end. This is why you'll hear the mantra, "I tough it, I tag it." Bottom line every airline will be happy to check any cases you cannot handle yourself so there is no reason for this to ever be an issue.

usflyer msp wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

Funny, I have flown AA quite a bit and never had any of these issues with them. I flew AA to GUA most recently and the flights were quite nice.

Then again I’m not going around looking for things to complain about either. I’m also not looking to make a big spectacle in the media.

I also took responsibility for myself. I didn’t pack too heavy of a carry-on, then blame the airline that I can’t lift it. I didn’t book a foolishly short connection, then blame the airline because I missed my connection. I didn’t get to the airport way too late, then blame the airline that they wouldn’t let me board late. Etc, etc.

Wow. You need to read the article instead of automatically blaming paying passengers. AA has received so much taxpayer funding and still treats passengers poorly.

Stories like this expose the horrible treatment passengers receive and things won't change without the media exposure. Why does AA sell short connections if they can't honor them? Would have been so easy to help this passenger and find a solution instead of what occurred. Sad to see the state of AA. We need much more government regulation to protect people like this passenger.

What exactly did the crew do that wrong and awful? They followed standard US rules and regulations and didn't kowtow to an entitled passenger. As I said, it speaks volumes that no passenger was willing to assist her even if just to avoid a delay.

Entitled passenger?!?! Not at all. Speaks volumes of the way AA treats passengers. This is a pattern and we need the media to report more stories like this to enact change. AA had so many options to help this passenger who has cancer. So many people bring carry-ons as AA charges for checked bags and people with medication needs must carry on as airlines lose luggage and then claim they are not responsible. Taking a passenger off a pane for this is a huge over reaction by AA and shows we need more passenger protections for these cases. The passenger should not have been asked to leave over a bag and it awful a paying customer was treated in such a manner.

Pi7472000 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Wow. You need to read the article instead of automatically blaming paying passengers. AA has received so much taxpayer funding and still treats passengers poorly.

Stories like this expose the horrible treatment passengers receive and things won't change without the media exposure. Why does AA sell short connections if they can't honor them? Would have been so easy to help this passenger and find a solution instead of what occurred. Sad to see the state of AA. We need much more government regulation to protect people like this passenger.

What exactly did the crew do that wrong and awful? They followed standard US rules and regulations and didn't kowtow to an entitled passenger. As I said, it speaks volumes that no passenger was willing to assist her even if just to avoid a delay.

Entitled passenger?!?! Not at all. Speaks volumes of the way AA treats passengers. This is a pattern and we need the media to report more stories like this to enact change. AA had so many options to help this passenger who has cancer. So many people bring carry-ons as AA charges for checked bags and people with medication needs must carry on as airlines lose luggage and then claim they are not responsible. Taking a passenger off a pane for this is a huge over reaction by AA and shows we need more passenger protections for these cases. The passenger should not have been asked to leave over a bag and it awful a paying customer was treated in such a manner.

She could have checked the bag at checkin and had a small bag for her medications to put under her seat. The first two bags are free on flights from India. If she threw a tantrum and treated the crew like servants as I suspect, she gets what she gets. It is a lot of paperwork to kick someone off an International flight so I highly doubt it was something minor.

Pi7472000 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Wow. You need to read the article instead of automatically blaming paying passengers. AA has received so much taxpayer funding and still treats passengers poorly.

Stories like this expose the horrible treatment passengers receive and things won't change without the media exposure. Why does AA sell short connections if they can't honor them? Would have been so easy to help this passenger and find a solution instead of what occurred. Sad to see the state of AA. We need much more government regulation to protect people like this passenger.

What exactly did the crew do that wrong and awful? They followed standard US rules and regulations and didn't kowtow to an entitled passenger. As I said, it speaks volumes that no passenger was willing to assist her even if just to avoid a delay.

Entitled passenger?!?! Not at all. Speaks volumes of the way AA treats passengers. This is a pattern and we need the media to report more stories like this to enact change. AA had so many options to help this passenger who has cancer. So many people bring carry-ons as AA charges for checked bags and people with medication needs must carry on as airlines lose luggage and then claim they are not responsible. Taking a passenger off a pane for this is a huge over reaction by AA and shows we need more passenger protections for these cases. The passenger should not have been asked to leave over a bag and it awful a paying customer was treated in such a manner.

I have cancer, too. So what? That doesn't make one entitled. Everyone has problems, it's called life. If you can't lift your bag, check it. I carry my meds in a sling pack, along with my passport, a book, cellphone charger and other small items.

Delta now has a gate area PA about "if you anticipate being unable to stow your bag please see an agent." Guessing they call a wheelchair assistance type contractor to do the lifting?

In my experience there are always other passengers willing to help older/disabled passengers. Shocking that AA crew thought offloading the pax was the only option.

johns624 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

What exactly did the crew do that wrong and awful? They followed standard US rules and regulations and didn't kowtow to an entitled passenger. As I said, it speaks volumes that no passenger was willing to assist her even if just to avoid a delay.

Entitled passenger?!?! Not at all. Speaks volumes of the way AA treats passengers. This is a pattern and we need the media to report more stories like this to enact change. AA had so many options to help this passenger who has cancer. So many people bring carry-ons as AA charges for checked bags and people with medication needs must carry on as airlines lose luggage and then claim they are not responsible. Taking a passenger off a pane for this is a huge over reaction by AA and shows we need more passenger protections for these cases. The passenger should not have been asked to leave over a bag and it awful a paying customer was treated in such a manner.

I have cancer, too. So what? That doesn't make one entitled. Everyone has problems, it's called life. If you can't lift your bag, check it. I carry my meds in a sling pack, along with my passport, a book, cellphone charger and other small items.

No, this particular crew and AA are entitled. Disgusting they thought offloading was the answer. Sad to see AA treat passengers with needs so poorly. It is gross corporations who get tax payer bailouts feel so entitled.

DLASFlyer wrote:

Delta now has a gate area PA about "if you anticipate being unable to stow your bag please see an agent." Guessing they call a wheelchair assistance type contractor to do the lifting?

In my experience there are always other passengers willing to help older/disabled passengers. Shocking that AA crew thought offloading the pax was the only option.

Exactly. Delta is much more customer focused and problem, solution oriented in my experience than AA.

AirplaneWizard wrote:

One should go out of their way to avoid US3 + AC when flying international if they prefer a more refined & higher quality of service. US3 also have higher airfares usually so people are paying higher airfare for worse service lol

To be fair I did see AC F/As helping pax with their bags.

Pi7472000 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Entitled passenger?!?! Not at all. Speaks volumes of the way AA treats passengers. This is a pattern and we need the media to report more stories like this to enact change. AA had so many options to help this passenger who has cancer. So many people bring carry-ons as AA charges for checked bags and people with medication needs must carry on as airlines lose luggage and then claim they are not responsible. Taking a passenger off a pane for this is a huge over reaction by AA and shows we need more passenger protections for these cases. The passenger should not have been asked to leave over a bag and it awful a paying customer was treated in such a manner.

I have cancer, too. So what? That doesn't make one entitled. Everyone has problems, it's called life. If you can't lift your bag, check it. I carry my meds in a sling pack, along with my passport, a book, cellphone charger and other small items.

No, this particular crew and AA are entitled. Disgusting they thought offloading was the answer. Sad to see AA treat passengers with needs so poorly. It is gross corporations who get tax payer bailouts feel so entitled.

Were you there?

DLASFlyer wrote:

Delta now has a gate area PA about "if you anticipate being unable to stow your bag please see an agent." Guessing they call a wheelchair assistance type contractor to do the lifting?

In my experience there are always other passengers willing to help older/disabled passengers. Shocking that AA crew thought offloading the pax was the only option.

I would have assumed the purpose of these announcements was to gate check the bags the passengers are unable to stow themselves.

Pi7472000 wrote:

DLASFlyer wrote:

Delta now has a gate area PA about "if you anticipate being unable to stow your bag please see an agent." Guessing they call a wheelchair assistance type contractor to do the lifting?

In my experience there are always other passengers willing to help older/disabled passengers. Shocking that AA crew thought offloading the pax was the only option.

Exactly. Delta is much more customer focused and problem, solution oriented in my experience than AA.

They make that announcement so they can gate check the bag. DL has the same restrictions.

Pi7472000 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Entitled passenger?!?! Not at all. Speaks volumes of the way AA treats passengers. This is a pattern and we need the media to report more stories like this to enact change. AA had so many options to help this passenger who has cancer. So many people bring carry-ons as AA charges for checked bags and people with medication needs must carry on as airlines lose luggage and then claim they are not responsible. Taking a passenger off a pane for this is a huge over reaction by AA and shows we need more passenger protections for these cases. The passenger should not have been asked to leave over a bag and it awful a paying customer was treated in such a manner.

I have cancer, too. So what? That doesn't make one entitled. Everyone has problems, it's called life. If you can't lift your bag, check it. I carry my meds in a sling pack, along with my passport, a book, cellphone charger and other small items.

No, this particular crew and AA are entitled. Disgusting they thought offloading was the answer. Sad to see AA treat passengers with needs so poorly. It is gross corporations who get tax payer bailouts feel so entitled.

Your responses are entirely reactionary. AA flies under the ACAA just like all other US carriers. In some way or another, we are required to assist customers with disabilities to accommodate their travel needs. There is also a role required by the ACAA called the CRO (Complaint Resolution Official). One must be available by phone 24/7 or in an airport at all times of operation. Even internationally. If ever there's a question of removing a customer from an aircraft for any reason, and the customer is claiming or apparently has a disability, a CRO must be involved, and they have the ultimate authority (even over the captain) to allow/deny travel. The decision to remove a disabled customer from an aircraft in my professional experience has always involved a conference call to headquarters, and a collaborative decision from all who have been involved in the incident. For a CRO to have determined that this customer needed to be pulled, things must have gotten pretty out of control, and we're clearly missing a whole half of the story. A half that AA obviously can't share currently, due to the ongoing investigation and their confidentiality obligations.

If we take this story at face value, then yes, horrible treatment by the crew, shame on AA, etc. But all we know is the claim and the outcome. That's not enough to make that determination.

DTWLAX wrote:

https://www.businesstoday.in/industry/aviation/story/new-york-bound-female-cancer-patient-offloaded-by-american-airlines-dgca-seeks-report-369050-2023-02-05
https://www.livemint.com/news/world/fai ... 19166.html

AA offloaded a NY bound cancer patient from DEL for not being unable to stow her bag in the overhead compartment. The article claims the passenger asked for assistance from the crew but was denied any help claiming it was not their job to stow bags.
Incident happened on AA293.
The Livemint article also states that the passenger recently had surgery and was wearing a brace that was visible.

If this is true, very unprofessional behavior by the AA crew. I understand the crew does not need to stow bags for passengers but if somebody clearly is unable to do it, what is the harm in helping out?
I have observed this multiple times, flight attendants on US carriers do not help with stowing bags overhead but crew on many Asian and European carriers do that extra little bit to help passengers stow bags.

Two years ago I was in an ankle boot and using a walker and I flew to PHX from DAL on WN. I left my folded up walker on the jetbridge and I had checked a rollaboard and had my backpack. The FA's on this flight were outstanding one grabbed my backpack and put it in an overhead and they would have assisted but I had no problem sliding in to one of the front bulkhead seats. When we got to PHX I was one of the last ones off the plane and one of the FA's had already got my backpack down for me. We do not know the whole story of what happened on this AA flight but on face value one of the FA's should have assisted the lady in stowing her bag.

BTV290 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

I have cancer, too. So what? That doesn't make one entitled. Everyone has problems, it's called life. If you can't lift your bag, check it. I carry my meds in a sling pack, along with my passport, a book, cellphone charger and other small items.

No, this particular crew and AA are entitled. Disgusting they thought offloading was the answer. Sad to see AA treat passengers with needs so poorly. It is gross corporations who get tax payer bailouts feel so entitled.

Your responses are entirely reactionary. AA flies under the ACAA just like all other US carriers. In some way or another, we are required to assist customers with disabilities to accommodate their travel needs. There is also a role required by the ACAA called the CRO (Complaint Resolution Official). One must be available by phone 24/7 or in an airport at all times of operation. Even internationally. If ever there's a question of removing a customer from an aircraft for any reason, and the customer is claiming or apparently has a disability, a CRO must be involved, and they have the ultimate authority (even over the captain) to allow/deny travel. The decision to remove a disabled customer from an aircraft in my professional experience has always involved a conference call to headquarters, and a collaborative decision from all who have been involved in the incident. For a CRO to have determined that this customer needed to be pulled, things must have gotten pretty out of control, and we're clearly missing a whole half of the story. A half that AA obviously can't share currently, due to the ongoing investigation and their confidentiality obligations.

If we take this story at face value, then yes, horrible treatment by the crew, shame on AA, etc. But all we know is the claim and the outcome. That's not enough to make that determination.

All accurate, except the CRO cannot override the captain on safety related issues.

Typical of service levels on AA, where the bare minimum is the best you can hope for... Why anyone would fly them long haul (unless using miles) is beyond me!

AngMoh wrote:

Unbelievable reactions here:
1) Talk as if this is a NYC to Boston shuttle: no it was not. This is someone travelling halfway around the world from Delhi to New York.
2) Talk as if someone checks in with just a huge cabin bag: it is DEL to JFK: everyone checks in lots of luggage and everyone has significant cabin luggage. Simple example: NYC is cold this time of the year (relatively to India) so extra clothing is definitely something you take with you.
3) Cabin crew helping with bags is completely normal on every single flight in Asia. If you are an AA crew with a contract which says "do not assist", then frankly speaking you are a far outlier in India. To India (this happened in Delphi, do not forget that), this is an absurd situation in the local context.
4) Does the contract "not required to help with bags" or "not allowed to help with bags"?

In the context of India, AA's lack of service and poor attitude was absurd and considering how India works, it is obvious this gets in the newspapers. No wonder Indians prefer to fly EK and QR.

Odd statement to say Indian’s prefer EK and QR when this Indian passenger chose AA. Maybe to Europe they prefer EK & QR. But AA & UA have no problem packing their flights full with Indian passengers every day.

There’s too much of this story we’re missing. A situation doesn’t go from “AA FA won’t help stow bag” to “distributive passenger removed from plane.” The part we’re missing is likely where the passenger went into full meltdown and lost it on the FA. Surely if it was as innocent as the FA wouldn’t help stow her bag some other individual wanting to get going with the flight would have jumped in and put it up in the overhead.

TW870 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Its in their union contract they dont have to help. Its injury prevention. So the FA helps stow your overpacked heavy bag, gets injured right before departure. Flight canceled.

There's the quality of humanity and service professionalism: The contract says I don't have to.

Surely the FA could have found an able-bodied person to assist the passenger stowing a bag in an overhead.

The union contract did not cause this. I was a union rep at United when I flew for them. The company required that flight attendants not stow bags in overhead bins due to liability for on the job injury, and flight attendant initial and recurrant training were very strict about this. It was United's workers comp program, and not the union, that mandated this policy. In a case such as the one described on AA293, standard procedure would involve helping find an able bodied passenger to help load the bag. Depending on aircraft type, you could also put the bag in a closet. But yes, if the bag was extremely heavy and the closets are full (due to strict weight limits enforced by FAA inspectors), there could be a situation where the bag could not make it onboard. I have a sense that there is more to the story than what is written, though.

While I would willing to offer a help but how bad people on the plane would feel about the FA and the airline?
An airlines' employee not willing to assist (for whatever reasons) but they invite their customers help to do the same thing......

CrewBunk wrote:

...I have seen that if the carryon bag is a reasonable size, the F/A assists. A few times, I have been called back during boarding to help. (I’m a competition body builder). But, i side with the feeling on here that if it is too heavy or cumbersome to handle, then maybe a passenger shouldn’t be carrying it.

No kidding. It is the same thing on Euro trains now too; attendants there just laugh. I am not a small guy and fit but some of these damn bags are 70+ pounds.

Another thought was could this bag not have been wheeled up to coat storage or something of that nature?

I know that this site is tend to be American centric, but try to see the case from the Asian point of view in general (by giving the benefit of the doubt that the passenger was not being a Karen at the time).

Most of us here in Asia (still) strongly believes that the US is "the greatest country on earth in all aspects". Maybe, (again, maybe) the customer thought 'Well, the FAs in our side of the world are super nice, helpful, and willing to provide assistance. Surely the FAs of the greatest country in the planet is going to be even nicer!". Note that nice and helpful that I mentioned here are not in that kind of 'you are here as my servant' type, but as in attentive.

Also, 99.9999% of all airline (including US airlines) always put something like 'our FAs are nice and ready to help you blablabla'. No one put in their website the line 'Yes, we are generally nice. But according to our union deal (or whatever it is), we can't help you lift your baggage even if we can see that you are having trouble lifting it". Plus, an FA asking other PAYING passenger to help another passenger while they just stand there and watch WILL NOT look good at all, no matter from which side of the planet you are. I personally wouldn't mind to do that if an FA that is smaller than me asked me to help them. I already did that many times and even helped a crew that is clearly struggling to arrange an overhead bin. But if a tall male FA (especially from a Western airline, where he is probably larger in size than most of us Asian) asked me to do that while he was just standing there watching, I will raise my eyebrow a bit since he's clearly more capable to do it better than me physically.

I'm a rather small guy myself (172 cm) and sometime I still encounter some issue reaching the OH bin. So I imagine that since most Asian women are generally in the 155-165cm range, it would be a problem to even reach the bin in a narrow body aircraft even if they are at a perfect health condition; let alone the bin on a wide body aircraft.

EA CO AS wrote:

All accurate, except the CRO cannot override the captain on safety related issues.

Sort of. At a certain point, the resolution is to pull the captain off the flight. Like for example I once dealt with a situation where the FAs demanded a customer be removed for intoxication. The customer was not--they were mildly autistic with some other neuromotor disabilities. Perfectly capable of self-care and solo travel, very friendly and compliant, just appeared under the influence of something if you didn't actually talk to him. The determination was made by me (the CRO) in conjunction with the customer control desk at headquarters that the customer could travel on the flight as intended. The flight attendants copped an attitude about it and the captain decided to back them up and still demand the customer be removed citing safety concerns. Back on the phone I went, and the determination was made to pull the crew off the flight and replace the whole crew. They were NOT pleased. So yes, the captain was not forced to transport the customer--but the way that was achieved was not as expected. At the end of the day, we still have to play by the ACAA, which again supports why I think we're missing so much of what happened here.

UPlog wrote:

Great sensational headline, but lets look at reality.

As crews we are told specifically not to lift bags(or boxes). Not only is there potential liability, but serious risk of on-the-job injury - with high cost for both employee and company.

Imagine if something happened to the FA, and the flight as result was canceled? I've witnessed an FA sprain and ankle, and flight as result get canceled as she was no longer fit for duty.

As they say - no good deed goes unpunished. Simple rule, dont lift passenger baggage.

Then you ought to find a new job. If as a crew member, you cannot lift a 15 lb bag 6 feet, how are you going to help in an emergency?

Best, Subramanian

And then they will cry about ceding market share to the ME3 (and others).

As an FA currently off on Workers Comp because I helped a passenger lift their bag overhead, I'd much rather be paying for my mortgage, groceries, car insurance with 100% of my guaranteed salary. Alas, when you're off here in Canada, it is only 60-70% of your wage. Times are tight around this household.

So, lifting a passenger's bag o' bricks and hurting myself has really impacted my life; not just physically but financially.

I started flying when we had to put pax bags up without question. Then, as I aged, I went to the "let's lift this bag together" plan and helped pax. Then, last month, I broke my rule during "proactive boarding" to ensure OTP and here I am. Off work and making a greatly reduced salary.

I get it when an FA declines to lift a bag. Since many airlines removed carry-on weight restrictions, you just don't know what you'll encounter during the once routine "clean and jerk" OHB packing.

*As an aside and in a sweeping generalization, the crews on Asian and ME carriers are often much younger and physically able to take such risks with their bodies that quickly recover. I was an FA at 20, I could too. Now I'm in my early 40s and my body says "Dude, you're not 20 anymore, don't do that!". And when I do hurt myself my body says "What did I just say?! I told you! Now go get the ibuprofen and ice"

* To the person that asked when the clock starts, usually about 60-90mins prior to departure.

So many Monday morning QBs here.

It takes a whole lot for me to off load a passenger.

I’m a pilot that will walk back and help stow a bag if a FA is unable.

You’re all here bashing the crew without any information. Maybe they were the most evil crew in the world like some of you are asserting, maybe there’s a lot more to the story, because it’s pretty darn uncommon to get off loaded due to a bag issue.

You know what does get you off loaded? Extreme non compliance plus a combative attitude. Judging by the persons reaction to not remedy the situation with the many agents that could quickly and expeditiously remedy a situation like this, and instead seeking out law enforcement and media solutions, I’m guessing there’s a loooot more not being made public here. But that’s just a hunch. For the record I don’t work for AA.

She should have flown Air India. It's sad how US airlines have gone from bad to worse.

Could no passenger help her? I would certainly have stepped in to help if I was a fellow passenger on that flight. That no one else would step in to help her is crazy. Just my $0.02

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:

Could no passenger help her? I would certainly have stepped in to help if I was a fellow passenger on that flight. That no one else would step in to help her is crazy. Just my $0.02

This is because you are hearing one side of a story.

c3000flyboy wrote:

I get it when an FA declines to lift a bag. Since many airlines removed carry-on weight restrictions, you just don't know what you'll encounter during the once routine "clean and jerk" OHB packing.

No weight restrictions for carry-on luggage, really? That's asking for trouble. Which airlines do this?

Ziyulu wrote:

She should have flown Air India. It's sad how US airlines have gone from bad to worse.

Yes,she should have! Problem solved.

From what I see in past years, majority of these cabin bags are far from what we could identify as 'hand luggage'. This should be picked at check-in.

AeroVega wrote:

c3000flyboy wrote:

I get it when an FA declines to lift a bag. Since many airlines removed carry-on weight restrictions, you just don't know what you'll encounter during the once routine "clean and jerk" OHB packing.

No weight restrictions for carry-on luggage, really? That's asking for trouble. Which airlines do this?

According to this: https://travel.usnews.com/features/carr ... s%20cabins.

The only American carriers that have a weight limit are Frontier, Hawaiian and Sun Country. The "big 3" and Southwest have no weight limit.

DTWLAX wrote:

https://www.businesstoday.in/industry/aviation/story/new-york-bound-female-cancer-patient-offloaded-by-american-airlines-dgca-seeks-report-369050-2023-02-05
https://www.livemint.com/news/world/fai ... 19166.html

AA offloaded a NY bound cancer patient from DEL for not being unable to stow her bag in the overhead compartment. The article claims the passenger asked for assistance from the crew but was denied any help claiming it was not their job to stow bags.
Incident happened on AA293.
The Livemint article also states that the passenger recently had surgery and was wearing a brace that was visible.

If this is true, very unprofessional behavior by the AA crew. I understand the crew does not need to stow bags for passengers but if somebody clearly is unable to do it, what is the harm in helping out?
I have observed this multiple times, flight attendants on US carriers do not help with stowing bags overhead but crew on many Asian and European carriers do that extra little bit to help passengers stow bags.

I have seen this, I think on UA just last month. Mid 30s, healthy FA tells elderly, 4 foot 8 woman “this isn’t my job.” So paying pax helped. I kind of get it, but at the end of the day you are in the hospitality industry. If you don’t know that, you might need additional training. My 2c.