Great news for the 220, having customers come back for repeat buys. Second order of 23 after DL?

I'm genuinely surprised that they didn't order a handful more 789's with this announcement. Even with the A380's coming back in and 3 new 789's being delivered this year I'd have thought a small topup would be required given the strength of the International market and the timeline for delivery of new 789's.

Good to see 3K getting a couple of new aircraft as well. As I speculated in another thread here 3K is short of capacity and isn't at critical mass for sustainable profit. another couple of A320's will help shift it towards that.

Sydscott wrote:

I'm genuinely surprised that they didn't order a handful more 789's with this announcement. Even with the A380's coming back in and 3 new 789's being delivered this year I'd have thought a small topup would be required given the strength of the International market and the timeline for delivery of new 789's.

Good to see 3K getting a couple of new aircraft as well. As I speculated in another thread here 3K is short of capacity and isn't at critical mass for sustainable profit. another couple of A320's will help shift it towards that.

The A330 renewal program is probably where we would likely expect to see 789 orders if theyre going to happen (especially as it seems that there are not any to be had at the moment anyway). Not sure when that is going to be finalised though, any ideas?

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

qf2220 wrote:

Sydscott wrote:

I'm genuinely surprised that they didn't order a handful more 789's with this announcement. Even with the A380's coming back in and 3 new 789's being delivered this year I'd have thought a small topup would be required given the strength of the International market and the timeline for delivery of new 789's.

Good to see 3K getting a couple of new aircraft as well. As I speculated in another thread here 3K is short of capacity and isn't at critical mass for sustainable profit. another couple of A320's will help shift it towards that.

The A330 renewal program is probably where we would likely expect to see 789 orders if theyre going to happen (especially as it seems that there are not any to be had at the moment anyway). Not sure when that is going to be finalised though, any ideas?

Scroll to slide 27 and 28 on the link for their fleet update. But in short they're spending US $5 billion between now and the end of FY26 on aircraft. So I don't see where an A330 replacement can be slotted in with that level of capex happening.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20230223/ ... b5nzj5.pdf

Also interesting that QF mainline is slotted to receive the A321XLR before JQ does.

Also interesting that QF mainline is slotted to receive the A321XLR before JQ does.

Probably not surprising as these XLRs will replace the oldest VX* series 738 which are now 21 years old and probably the remaining 3 Cityflyer A332s (20 years). Both the JQ A320 (Av. age 12 years) and VA 738 (11 years) fleets have been turned over more than the mainline QF 738 (14.5 years) fleet

Excellent news, they'll be able to afford more customer service staff so that when you phone up it won't be a three hour wait anymore!

Nice to hear about more A220s also.

qf789 wrote:

Qantas has announced their first half results today

1.43 billion underlying before tax
Source 5 319/320 for Network
Exercise 9 purchase rights for 9 A220-300 for delivery F26 and FY27
Three additions 3 A321P2F
2 A320's for 3K

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... ar-result/

Qantas has also unveiled first and business class products for A350

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... for-a350s/

Very interesting and some surprising moves - but also shows the flexibility of the combined order books for Jetstar, and QF!

So QF will eventually have a 12 - 321F?

9 additional A220 is an increase on the 717s so either eventual replacement for E190 and usage on smaller 738 routes. Interesting to see where they are deployed.

How many Alliance E190s are they up to? 30 - very curious where they end up, hopefully they get a bit of an interior refresh now.

Amazing to see 3K back up to size! Hopefully with a bit more expansion, and greater integration between SIN and Japan with Jetstar Japan.

319 for network is interesting!! Wonder if this is a F100 replacement?

No 789 top up to me sounds like it will form part of the 330 replacement- hopefully with an announcement at end of year results.

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

It is following the trend of having doors and doesn't look too dissimilar to QR's Qsuite. I have never seen a complaint about it being 'claustrophobic', so I don't think that's going to be an issue here.

9 additional A220 is an increase on the 717s so either eventual replacement for E190 and usage on smaller 738 routes. Interesting to see where they are deployed

Yes, I assume the A223 will also replace some 738 routes where the 738 is perhaps a little too big.

How many Alliance E190s are they up to? 30 - very curious where they end up, hopefully they get a bit of an interior refresh now.

I assume QF are exploiting QQ's lower cost base rather than opening up new routes with higher cost A223s. Along with the A319s for Network, they will replace the remaining F100s. I do wonder if the E90s are partly a stopgap measure apart from their use in FIFO. Most of the planes acquired by QQ are around 16 years old so not exactly young. You can't imagine them being around for more than 6 years except for FIFO.

Amazing to see 3K back up to size! Hopefully with a bit more expansion, and greater integration between SIN and Japan with Jetstar Japan.

Not sure how much Jetstar Asia can operate with Jetstar Japan. Tokyo and Singapore are quite far apart, nearly the same distance as MEL-SIN so a fleet of A320s is not ideal when competitors like TR will be operating 787s.

319 for network is interesting!! Wonder if this is a F100 replacement?

You would think so. It is a similar strategy to that adopted by QQ (cheap secondhand E90s) and VA (cheap secondhand 73Gs) to replace their F100s.

tullamarine wrote:

319 for network is interesting!! Wonder if this is a F100 replacement?

You would think so. It is a similar strategy to that adopted by QQ (cheap secondhand E90s) and VA (cheap secondhand 73Gs) to replace their F100s.

Indeed and the 319 has much better runway performance which is needed for a few ports that the F100s can get into.

Nice to see 3K growing again. Hopefully they will get some new A321Ns too

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

Keeping all of those light upholstered tones looking clean is going to be a nightmare.

tullamarine wrote:

9 additional A220 is an increase on the 717s so either eventual replacement for E190 and usage on smaller 738 routes. Interesting to see where they are deployed

Yes, I assume the A223 will also replace some 738 routes where the 738 is perhaps a little too big.

How many Alliance E190s are they up to? 30 - very curious where they end up, hopefully they get a bit of an interior refresh now.

I assume QF are exploiting QQ's lower cost base rather than opening up new routes with higher cost A223s. Along with the A319s for Network, they will replace the remaining F100s. I do wonder if the E90s are partly a stopgap measure apart from their use in FIFO. Most of the planes acquired by QQ are around 16 years old so not exactly young. You can't imagine them being around for more than 6 years except for FIFO.

Amazing to see 3K back up to size! Hopefully with a bit more expansion, and greater integration between SIN and Japan with Jetstar Japan.

Not sure how much Jetstar Asia can operate with Jetstar Japan. Tokyo and Singapore are quite far apart, nearly the same distance as MEL-SIN so a fleet of A320s is not ideal when competitors like TR will be operating 787s.

319 for network is interesting!! Wonder if this is a F100 replacement?

You would think so. It is a similar strategy to that adopted by QQ (cheap secondhand E90s) and VA (cheap secondhand 73Gs) to replace their F100s.

Oh sorry regard 3K and Jetstar Japan - The Japanese fleet got a few 321LRs ahead of JQ in AU, was thinking they maybe or use, but on reflection in this dense a layout the 321LR may not be able to make it.

When is the first A220 due to arrive in AU?

Any idea where they might get the A319s from? Many IAE powered birds sitting on the open market?

tullamarine wrote:

Also interesting that QF mainline is slotted to receive the A321XLR before JQ does.

Probably not surprising as these XLRs will replace the oldest VX* series 738 which are now 21 years old and probably the remaining 3 Cityflyer A332s (20 years). Both the JQ A320 (Av. age 12 years) and VA 738 (11 years) fleets have been turned over more than the mainline QF 738 (14.5 years) fleet

I'd have also thought that they would want to get them into service and gain customer feedback before they commit to an A330 replacement because if a bunch of A321's in combination from both JQ and QF can replace capacity of A330's then you need less of a widebody order.

bwwt wrote:

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

It is following the trend of having doors and doesn't look too dissimilar to QR's Qsuite. I have never seen a complaint about it being 'claustrophobic', so I don't think that's going to be an issue here.

I thought the same. It's aspiring to be Qsuite, which is supposedly the 'best' offering right now, so don't think 'claustophobia' will be an issue! By all accounts, privacy is where it's at in the 'best' J offerings (and what's sought), not access to a window. A window is just a bonus.

When is the first A220 due to arrive in AU?

Q4 of this calendar year I believe. 5 will be delivered before the end of FY24.

Any idea where they might get the A319s from? Many IAE powered birds sitting on the open market?

They will be spoilt for choice so should get a good deal. They might do something like what VA has done with KL for their 73Gs and acquire the whole batch from someone like BA who is replacing their A319s with A320NEOs.

I'd have also thought that they would want to get them into service and gain customer feedback before they commit to an A330 replacement because if a bunch of A321's in combination from both JQ and QF can replace capacity of A330's then you need less of a widebody order.

I think they already know they won't need as many widebodies for domestic services. They no longer have to compete for over-luxurious J class widebodies with VA on trans-continental so they probably won't be replaced on a like-for-like basis. The increasing size of the A321P2F fleet suggests they are going to use a dedicated freighter fleet to replace the previous underbelly capability of the A332s domestically.

accentra wrote:

bwwt wrote:

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

It is following the trend of having doors and doesn't look too dissimilar to QR's Qsuite. I have never seen a complaint about it being 'claustrophobic', so I don't think that's going to be an issue here.

I thought the same. It's aspiring to be Qsuite, which is supposedly the 'best' offering right now, so don't think 'claustophobia' will be an issue! By all accounts, privacy is where it's at in the 'best' J offerings (and what's sought), not access to a window. A window is just a bonus.

I think the door will feel claustrophobic on those seats where the bed is right next to the door. On the other 50% where the table is between the bed and the door, it will not be so much of an issue. It seems from existing airlines that not everyone closes the doors anyway and those that do only seem to do it whilst sleeping.

Sydscott wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

Sydscott wrote:

I'm genuinely surprised that they didn't order a handful more 789's with this announcement. Even with the A380's coming back in and 3 new 789's being delivered this year I'd have thought a small topup would be required given the strength of the International market and the timeline for delivery of new 789's.

Good to see 3K getting a couple of new aircraft as well. As I speculated in another thread here 3K is short of capacity and isn't at critical mass for sustainable profit. another couple of A320's will help shift it towards that.

The A330 renewal program is probably where we would likely expect to see 789 orders if theyre going to happen (especially as it seems that there are not any to be had at the moment anyway). Not sure when that is going to be finalised though, any ideas?

Scroll to slide 27 and 28 on the link for their fleet update. But in short they're spending US $5 billion between now and the end of FY26 on aircraft. So I don't see where an A330 replacement can be slotted in with that level of capex happening.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20230223/ ... b5nzj5.pdf

Also interesting that QF mainline is slotted to receive the A321XLR before JQ does.

Hadn't got to those presos yet!

Yeah I recon the A330s wont be replaced for at least that time - even thoguh theyre getting a bit tired on board. Theyre still a workhorse. Some A321XLR flying might replace them and perhaps that might be a datapoint for their replacement plans?

The initial 20 order for the A220s was more or less a direct replacement for the existing 717s, but I think with this new extra 9 orders, we are seeing planes specifically ordered for SWZ when it opens as I kind of doubt Qantas want to operate their regular 737s out of Sydney West as the passenger loads required will stifle frequencies, which will then stifle passengers loads.

This is the beauty of the A220s for Qantas as they can cover all of Australia and New Zealand, without the passenger loads required by the A320 and 737 series planes.

qf2220 wrote:

Sydscott wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

The A330 renewal program is probably where we would likely expect to see 789 orders if theyre going to happen (especially as it seems that there are not any to be had at the moment anyway). Not sure when that is going to be finalised though, any ideas?

Scroll to slide 27 and 28 on the link for their fleet update. But in short they're spending US $5 billion between now and the end of FY26 on aircraft. So I don't see where an A330 replacement can be slotted in with that level of capex happening.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20230223/ ... b5nzj5.pdf

Also interesting that QF mainline is slotted to receive the A321XLR before JQ does.

Hadn't got to those presos yet!

Yeah I recon the A330s wont be replaced for at least that time - even thoguh theyre getting a bit tired on board. Theyre still a workhorse. Some A321XLR flying might replace them and perhaps that might be a datapoint for their replacement plans?

I ignore the press releases and go straight to the Preso.

As I said above, I don't think QF needs to commit to an A330 replacement until they get A321's coming in and get customer feedback from that. A combination of both JQ and QF A321's can replace a fair bit of domestic A330 flying. So an A330 replacement would literally be aimed at a plane that can do East Coast to India, Asia and Hawaii because such a plane would then cover off potential widebody services from PER and ADL. So I'm not sure how many less widebodies that means QF needs for A330 replacement but it'll be a few. And it's not like the "newer" A330's in the QF fleet need replacement anyway. With the lie flat business, screens and amenities they're perfectly serviceable for a few more years and even if a handful of them got upgraded with the Sunrise Business Suite that can still take them into the very late 2020's before they'll need a bulk replacement order.

Until then the A330's can keep on trucking along.

Sydscott wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

Sydscott wrote:

Scroll to slide 27 and 28 on the link for their fleet update. But in short they're spending US $5 billion between now and the end of FY26 on aircraft. So I don't see where an A330 replacement can be slotted in with that level of capex happening.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20230223/ ... b5nzj5.pdf

Also interesting that QF mainline is slotted to receive the A321XLR before JQ does.

Hadn't got to those presos yet!

Yeah I recon the A330s wont be replaced for at least that time - even thoguh theyre getting a bit tired on board. Theyre still a workhorse. Some A321XLR flying might replace them and perhaps that might be a datapoint for their replacement plans?

I ignore the press releases and go straight to the Preso.

As I said above, I don't think QF needs to commit to an A330 replacement until they get A321's coming in and get customer feedback from that. A combination of both JQ and QF A321's can replace a fair bit of domestic A330 flying. So an A330 replacement would literally be aimed at a plane that can do East Coast to India, Asia and Hawaii because such a plane would then cover off potential widebody services from PER and ADL. So I'm not sure how many less widebodies that means QF needs for A330 replacement but it'll be a few. And it's not like the "newer" A330's in the QF fleet need replacement anyway. With the lie flat business, screens and amenities they're perfectly serviceable for a few more years and even if a handful of them got upgraded with the Sunrise Business Suite that can still take them into the very late 2020's before they'll need a bulk replacement order.

Until then the A330's can keep on trucking along.

You're right. The youngest A332s can easily hang around for another 7 or 8 years. QF got their first A330s quite cheaply as part of the original A380 deal so they could adapt to the Airbus ecosphere in advance of the A380s arriving but they have been a great servant for QF.

They are so flexible being able to cope with peak hour services on the triangle and then moving onto regional services into Asia later in the day all the while carrying a huge amount of freight in the belly. The later models got increased range so have been able to take on east-coast routes to India and US which has been a huge help whilst the 787 deliveries have been delayed. Passengers like the 8 abreast seating and the generally quiet cabin. Whatever replaces them will need to be very good.

Pcoder wrote:

The initial 20 order for the A220s was more or less a direct replacement for the existing 717s, but I think with this new extra 9 orders, we are seeing planes specifically ordered for SWZ when it opens as I kind of doubt Qantas want to operate their regular 737s out of Sydney West as the passenger loads required will stifle frequencies, which will then stifle passengers loads.

This is the beauty of the A220s for Qantas as they can cover all of Australia and New Zealand, without the passenger loads required by the A320 and 737 series planes.

This 2019 article when Alan was still deciding:
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/2413 ... at%2062%25.

717s "able to seat 125 passengers"

"if we assume the 77.8% load factor is also present on Qantas’ 717s and F100s, this means that the A220 would still be profitable for the airline. During the Paris Air Show 2019, airBaltic’s CEO, Martin Gauss, mentioned that the break-even point for the A220-300 is at 90 passengers – because the Latvian airline configures its former-CSeries aircraft in a 145 seat layout, the load factor to break-even is at 62%."

https://youtu.be/F0sAYj81QKA?t=477
quote: "seat cost goes down by 57% " (against turboprop Q400). ...... "that is not a marketing, this is coming from our airline in our operation"

The primary reason for using the A330 on domestic and New Zealand flights was do to express cargo. It seems the A321 freighters will take over that role.

It would not surprise me if the A330 routes get replaced with passenger A321 and freighter A321.

RJMAZ wrote:

The primary reason for using the A330 on domestic and New Zealand flights was do to express cargo. It seems the A321 freighters will take over that role.

It would not surprise me if the A330 routes get replaced with passenger A321 and freighter A321.

Can't forget the A330 P2F as well which would really help with cargo ops.

tullamarine wrote:

Sydscott wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

Hadn't got to those presos yet!

Yeah I recon the A330s wont be replaced for at least that time - even thoguh theyre getting a bit tired on board. Theyre still a workhorse. Some A321XLR flying might replace them and perhaps that might be a datapoint for their replacement plans?

I ignore the press releases and go straight to the Preso.

As I said above, I don't think QF needs to commit to an A330 replacement until they get A321's coming in and get customer feedback from that. A combination of both JQ and QF A321's can replace a fair bit of domestic A330 flying. So an A330 replacement would literally be aimed at a plane that can do East Coast to India, Asia and Hawaii because such a plane would then cover off potential widebody services from PER and ADL. So I'm not sure how many less widebodies that means QF needs for A330 replacement but it'll be a few. And it's not like the "newer" A330's in the QF fleet need replacement anyway. With the lie flat business, screens and amenities they're perfectly serviceable for a few more years and even if a handful of them got upgraded with the Sunrise Business Suite that can still take them into the very late 2020's before they'll need a bulk replacement order.

Until then the A330's can keep on trucking along.

You're right. The youngest A332s can easily hang around for another 7 or 8 years. QF got their first A330s quite cheaply as part of the original A380 deal so they could adapt to the Airbus ecosphere in advance of the A380s arriving but they have been a great servant for QF.

They are so flexible being able to cope with peak hour services on the triangle and then moving onto regional services into Asia later in the day all the while carrying a huge amount of freight in the belly. The later models got increased range so have been able to take on east-coast routes to India and US which has been a huge help whilst the 787 deliveries have been delayed. Passengers like the 8 abreast seating and the generally quiet cabin. Whatever replaces them will need to be very good.

So there's a strong case for A338s/A339s to replace the A332s/A333s?

I would genuinely love to see that rather than more 787s, simply because I really like (and need) my shoulder room when I'm in Y.

JJWess wrote:

RJMAZ wrote:

The primary reason for using the A330 on domestic and New Zealand flights was do to express cargo. It seems the A321 freighters will take over that role.

It would not surprise me if the A330 routes get replaced with passenger A321 and freighter A321.

Can't forget the A330 P2F as well which would really help with cargo ops.

General consensus is 330 replacement will be from the bottom 321 and from the top more 789 into Asia, which allows the flexibility to be used on long haul also.

I propose in the next ten years QF will end up with;
A220 x 40
321 x 60-70
789 x 30
355 x 30 for project sunrise and 380 replacement

Not a bad fleet for an airline QFs size!

smi0006 wrote:

JJWess wrote:

RJMAZ wrote:

The primary reason for using the A330 on domestic and New Zealand flights was do to express cargo. It seems the A321 freighters will take over that role.

It would not surprise me if the A330 routes get replaced with passenger A321 and freighter A321.

Can't forget the A330 P2F as well which would really help with cargo ops.

General consensus is 330 replacement will be from the bottom 321 and from the top more 789 into Asia, which allows the flexibility to be used on long haul also.

I propose in the next ten years QF will end up with;
A220 x 40
321 x 60-70
789 x 30
355 x 30 for project sunrise and 380 replacement

Not a bad fleet for an airline QFs size!

I think more A220s and more A321s. Im hawkish on the XLR being able to open quite a few new routes into Asia and the pacific that the 738s cant reach ad the 330s are too big for. And the A220 i can see replacing some Q400 flying. Places like ABX (assuming the runway allows, I'm not sure of this) and the Queensland coast could see a lot of A220 jet service.

Dalavia wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Sydscott wrote:

I ignore the press releases and go straight to the Preso.

As I said above, I don't think QF needs to commit to an A330 replacement until they get A321's coming in and get customer feedback from that. A combination of both JQ and QF A321's can replace a fair bit of domestic A330 flying. So an A330 replacement would literally be aimed at a plane that can do East Coast to India, Asia and Hawaii because such a plane would then cover off potential widebody services from PER and ADL. So I'm not sure how many less widebodies that means QF needs for A330 replacement but it'll be a few. And it's not like the "newer" A330's in the QF fleet need replacement anyway. With the lie flat business, screens and amenities they're perfectly serviceable for a few more years and even if a handful of them got upgraded with the Sunrise Business Suite that can still take them into the very late 2020's before they'll need a bulk replacement order.

Until then the A330's can keep on trucking along.

You're right. The youngest A332s can easily hang around for another 7 or 8 years. QF got their first A330s quite cheaply as part of the original A380 deal so they could adapt to the Airbus ecosphere in advance of the A380s arriving but they have been a great servant for QF.

They are so flexible being able to cope with peak hour services on the triangle and then moving onto regional services into Asia later in the day all the while carrying a huge amount of freight in the belly. The later models got increased range so have been able to take on east-coast routes to India and US which has been a huge help whilst the 787 deliveries have been delayed. Passengers like the 8 abreast seating and the generally quiet cabin. Whatever replaces them will need to be very good.

So there's a strong case for A338s/A339s to replace the A332s/A333s?

I would genuinely love to see that rather than more 787s, simply because I really like (and need) my shoulder room when I'm in Y.

I think it depends on what delivery slots will be available - A350s and B787s will require QF to wait a bit longer to get their aircraft while the A330Neos should have a shorter waiting period. If QF wants their aircraft urgently, they may plump for the one that can be delivered quickly.

Just remember history has shown that what QF order and what they actually decide to take are usually very different.

flee wrote:

I think it depends on what delivery slots will be available - A350s and B787s will require QF to wait a bit longer to get their aircraft while the A330Neos should have a shorter waiting period. If QF wants their aircraft urgently, they may plump for the one that can be delivered quickly.

I don't think there is a huge urgency for them to replace the A330s as the A321XLRs will work great on the transcons, and increasingly point into Asia from more cities. Plus there are a few different levers they can pull before they reach for A330neos.

The first one I can imagine is that the JQ A330s move into QF colours and get deployed on the Asian routes. Once JQ have the A321XLRs arriving at scale, they will take over the Japan and Korea routes (if they still exist by then), and QF just whacks their latest and greatest business class in the front, and off she goes. This was the original plan back when the 787s were first ordered, although at that time

The other idea is that the current 12 789s get reconfigured once the Sunrise aircraft come in and take over the ULH routes. This could happen if the Perth hub fails (as it currently is), but probably less likely as I am sure they would like the flexbility to start new routes with the 789s and then move them to the A350s if the premium demand is there.

Third is that Boeing find some slots and attractive pricing for Qantas to go out and buy some new 787-10s and pack them to the gills. The -10 would be competitive into Asia, get them up to Hawaii and still carry a useful cargo load on most routes. Heck, they could even try returning to AKL-LAX if they wanted.

Fourth option is they pick up some mid-life A330s or even Rolls-powered 787s from the market, and run them into the ground over five years, after which they trade them in on whatever is hot and happening at that time.

Bottom line for me is that QF will look to other cheaper alternatives before they plonk down billions of dollars on A330neos just because they may be available sooner.

qf2220 wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

JJWess wrote:

Can't forget the A330 P2F as well which would really help with cargo ops.

General consensus is 330 replacement will be from the bottom 321 and from the top more 789 into Asia, which allows the flexibility to be used on long haul also.

I propose in the next ten years QF will end up with;
A220 x 40
321 x 60-70
789 x 30
355 x 30 for project sunrise and 380 replacement

Not a bad fleet for an airline QFs size!

I think more A220s and more A321s. Im hawkish on the XLR being able to open quite a few new routes into Asia and the pacific that the 738s cant reach ad the 330s are too big for. And the A220 i can see replacing some Q400 flying. Places like ABX (assuming the runway allows, I'm not sure of this) and the Queensland coast could see a lot of A220 jet service.

Bonza are planning flights from ABX so I assume it will take an A220.

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

Like BA’s A350s.

Actually it isn’t that bad. The muted BA colours are calming. But the quality of materials chosen by BA is terrible. The bits one touches when seated feel cheap and flimsy. For example the lining of the shell feels like a thin polyester carpet on cardboard. Luxurious, it is not. It is a nice bed though.

The first one I can imagine is that the JQ A330s move into QF colours and get deployed on the Asian routes. Once JQ have the A321XLRs arriving at scale, they will take over the Japan and Korea routes (if they still exist by then), and QF just whacks their latest and greatest business class in the front, and off she goes. This was the original plan back when the 787s were first ordered, although at that time

JQ doesn't have any A330s. Did you means 788s?

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

It's a "Render", meaning it's just a current interpretation/expectation. If anything, I'd say they dropped this early to gauge feedback.

Don't be surprised if it changes.

Cheers,

Polot wrote:

With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

52 in total but split across two small cabins of 28 and 24 seats respectively which will help maintain some level of intimacy.

vhebb wrote:

Just remember history has shown that what QF order and what they actually decide to take are usually very different.

Under previous management approaches yes. We're yet to see what this management does with orders that thye originate.

Chipmunk1973 wrote:

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

It's a "Render", meaning it's just a current interpretation/expectation. If anything, I'd say they dropped this early to gauge feedback.

Don't be surprised if it changes.

Cheers,

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

The A350 will be new to QF. And for flights to commence by December 2025, QF will be doing a number of test flights for crew in the preceeding months so you would have to assume a September 2025 delivery.

Given noted supply chain issues and if it is a bespoke hard product (which this is), airlines will generally have to order 2-2.5years in advance. So we're right on time for QF to place an order.

I'm not surprised with the additional A223 orders. I suspect there are lots of routes that will be replaced by the A223 over the 73H. Also a lot of A332 routes will be replaced by the A321XLR. With 20J seats it's an almost replacement for an A332.

Cheers,

getluv wrote:

Chipmunk1973 wrote:

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

It's a "Render", meaning it's just a current interpretation/expectation. If anything, I'd say they dropped this early to gauge feedback.

Don't be surprised if it changes.

Cheers,

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

The A350 will be new to QF. And for flights to commence by December 2025, QF will be doing a number of test flights for crew in the preceeding months so you would have to assume a September 2025 delivery.

Given noted supply chain issues and if it is a bespoke hard product (which this is), airlines will generally have to order 2-2.5years in advance. So we're right on time for QF to place an order.

I was suggesting that "subtle" design changes can be made since the release of the renders. I would expect that they have probably 4-5 design versions and just dropped the "worst" to initiate public feedback.

Cheers,

vhtje wrote:

Polot wrote:

First on the A350 looks nice. While I’m sure it will be comfortable J looks like it will be claustrophobic for such long flights, especially the middle aisle seats that lack a window (which the PR shots are careful not to show). With 52 of them it is going to give a strong office cubicle look.

Like BA’s A350s.

Actually it isn’t that bad. The muted BA colours are calming. But the quality of materials chosen by BA is terrible. The bits one touches when seated feel cheap and flimsy. For example the lining of the shell feels like a thin polyester carpet on cardboard. Luxurious, it is not. It is a nice bed though.

I've done 1 flight in a BA A350 in Business from San Diego to London last year. I found their new business really uncomfortable and claustrophobic for an overnight flight and agree with your comments about the seat. It does feel flimsy and cheap. The bed I found uncomfortable because of its narrowness around my feet. It would be a great seat for a day flight where you are lounging. So I hope QF don't go for that and I think they won't. The footwell in the new QF Business class is pretty wide and from the renders it looks like that will continue into the A350 thank goodness.

EBT wrote:

flee wrote:

Third is that Boeing find some slots and attractive pricing for Qantas to go out and buy some new 787-10s and pack them to the gills. The -10 would be competitive into Asia, get them up to Hawaii and still carry a useful cargo load on most routes. Heck, they could even try returning to AKL-LAX if they wanted.

If the bargain basement pricing that QF negotiated with Boeing in their 2006 787 order can be applied in some form to a future 787-10 order then I think that would be the most likely choice as it maintains fleet commonality. As others have noted, there is no great urgency at this point in time.

Cheers,
StickShaker

Chipmunk1973 wrote:

getluv wrote:

Chipmunk1973 wrote:

It's a "Render", meaning it's just a current interpretation/expectation. If anything, I'd say they dropped this early to gauge feedback.

Don't be surprised if it changes.

Cheers,

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

The A350 will be new to QF. And for flights to commence by December 2025, QF will be doing a number of test flights for crew in the preceeding months so you would have to assume a September 2025 delivery.

Given noted supply chain issues and if it is a bespoke hard product (which this is), airlines will generally have to order 2-2.5years in advance. So we're right on time for QF to place an order.

I was suggesting that "subtle" design changes can be made since the release of the renders. I would expect that they have probably 4-5 design versions and just dropped the "worst" to initiate public feedback.

Cheers,

That makes no sense. If you have criticism of the CGI renderings that have been released then I would just go with that if that's your problem. The business class seats they installed in the B787s, A330s and the A380s matched the renderings when they were unveiled.

They would have already done all the consumer and market testing already on the options of their preferred choices. If there are design changes post release of these images it would be due to economics or due to supply chain issues. They're not basing their design choices of online opinion off CGI renderings.

https://twitter.com/byerussell/status/1 ... 1834298368

So, delivery of (the first 3) project sunrise A35K’s in 2H CY 2026, for now?

texl1649 wrote:

https://twitter.com/byerussell/status/1628814771834298368

So, delivery of (the first 3) project sunrise A35K’s in 2H CY 2026, for now?

The 26 financial year is from July 1 2025 to June 30 2026.