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qf789
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New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:50 pm

Welcome to the New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2023. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1481115&p=23695067#p23695067
 
NZ516
Posts: 2127
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:07 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
CO
LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD/MEL/BNE 747/D10
LAX-PPT-AKL-SYD D10/747
LAX-HNL-SYD D10/747
Pulled out 1993

UA
LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD 747
SFO-HNL-AKL-SYD 747/D10
LAX-SYD-MEL 74L, 744 commenced 1990
LAX-AKL-SYD 74L? 74L did visit AKL
LAX-AKL-MEL 744 commenced 1991

AA
DFW-HNL-AKL D10 3 weekly 1990-92
DFW-HNL-SYD D10 4 weekly


Also Pan Am flew to AKL in 1983 before selling the route to UA.

PA812 JFK - LAX - HNL - AKL - SYD 747 3pw

http://www.departedflights.com/AKL83p2.html


Yes they did, I only went back to when UA took over roughly. PA were up to 8-9 weekly 747s in the late 1970s, mix of
LAX-AKL-SYD-LAX 74L
LAX-AKL-LAX 74L
LAX-HNL-AKL-MEL 741
LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD 741

They flew to NAN/NOU/PPT/PPG with 747s, NAN continued to SYD 3 weekly while the others were weekly on most cases PPT/PPG were combined from memory.

I believe a brief SFO-AKL when the 74L was very new 1976/77. Before that 707s via PPT or PPG.


You are good at record keeping ZK-NBT. A while ago I remember seeing an old Pan Am route map showing an extensive South Pacific network. They certainly served a lot of the islands with lots of different routings. They may have been the dominant airline in the late 70s between AKL and LAX with 9 747s per week with the most seats as I believe AIR NZ were just daily Dc-10 service at the time. This was after AA had left the market so less competition then.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:22 pm

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230228-nzgis

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2023/02/ ... s.html?m=1

Here is the schedule for the temporary Gisborne to Napier return service a quick 30 min flight. As the roads are mostly out of action the current detour is over a 9 hour drive.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:00 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Also Pan Am flew to AKL in 1983 before selling the route to UA.

PA812 JFK - LAX - HNL - AKL - SYD 747 3pw

http://www.departedflights.com/AKL83p2.html


Yes they did, I only went back to when UA took over roughly. PA were up to 8-9 weekly 747s in the late 1970s, mix of
LAX-AKL-SYD-LAX 74L
LAX-AKL-LAX 74L
LAX-HNL-AKL-MEL 741
LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD 741

They flew to NAN/NOU/PPT/PPG with 747s, NAN continued to SYD 3 weekly while the others were weekly on most cases PPT/PPG were combined from memory.

I believe a brief SFO-AKL when the 74L was very new 1976/77. Before that 707s via PPT or PPG.


You are good at record keeping ZK-NBT. A while ago I remember seeing an old Pan Am route map showing an extensive South Pacific network. They certainly served a lot of the islands with lots of different routings. They may have been the dominant airline in the late 70s between AKL and LAX with 9 747s per week with the most seats as I believe AIR NZ were just daily Dc-10 service at the time. This was after AA had left the market so less competition then.


I can't remember a UA 74L service LAX-AKL-SYD, although there was a DC-10 service SFO (or LAX?)-HNL-AKL-SYD. You may have seen many UA 74L's in AKL for tech stops which were very common as when the route was transferred, PA neglected to inform UA of the need to block seats. In fact, I once flew UA SYD-LAX subload on the SP and the only reason I was accepted for the flight was because of a planned refueing stop in HNL. Yes you are correct the original PA route was SFO-AKL-SYD (I flew that sector as a young boy).
 
ZK-NBT
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:11 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Also Pan Am flew to AKL in 1983 before selling the route to UA.

PA812 JFK - LAX - HNL - AKL - SYD 747 3pw

http://www.departedflights.com/AKL83p2.html


Yes they did, I only went back to when UA took over roughly. PA were up to 8-9 weekly 747s in the late 1970s, mix of
LAX-AKL-SYD-LAX 74L
LAX-AKL-LAX 74L
LAX-HNL-AKL-MEL 741
LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD 741

They flew to NAN/NOU/PPT/PPG with 747s, NAN continued to SYD 3 weekly while the others were weekly on most cases PPT/PPG were combined from memory.

I believe a brief SFO-AKL when the 74L was very new 1976/77. Before that 707s via PPT or PPG.


You are good at record keeping ZK-NBT. A while ago I remember seeing an old Pan Am route map showing an extensive South Pacific network. They certainly served a lot of the islands with lots of different routings. They may have been the dominant airline in the late 70s between AKL and LAX with 9 747s per week with the most seats as I believe AIR NZ were just daily Dc-10 service at the time. This was after AA had left the market so less competition then.


Yes PA were definitely the dominant carrier in the late 1970s. There are some timetables online, departed flights being one of them.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:15 pm

eta unknown wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Yes they did, I only went back to when UA took over roughly. PA were up to 8-9 weekly 747s in the late 1970s, mix of
LAX-AKL-SYD-LAX 74L
LAX-AKL-LAX 74L
LAX-HNL-AKL-MEL 741
LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD 741

They flew to NAN/NOU/PPT/PPG with 747s, NAN continued to SYD 3 weekly while the others were weekly on most cases PPT/PPG were combined from memory.

I believe a brief SFO-AKL when the 74L was very new 1976/77. Before that 707s via PPT or PPG.


You are good at record keeping ZK-NBT. A while ago I remember seeing an old Pan Am route map showing an extensive South Pacific network. They certainly served a lot of the islands with lots of different routings. They may have been the dominant airline in the late 70s between AKL and LAX with 9 747s per week with the most seats as I believe AIR NZ were just daily Dc-10 service at the time. This was after AA had left the market so less competition then.


I can't remember a UA 74L service LAX-AKL-SYD, although there was a DC-10 service SFO (or LAX?)-HNL-AKL-SYD. You may have seen many UA 74L's in AKL for tech stops which were very common as when the route was transferred, PA neglected to inform UA of the need to block seats. In fact, I once flew UA SYD-LAX subload on the SP and the only reason I was accepted for the flight was because of a planned refueing stop in HNL. Yes you are correct the original PA route was SFO-AKL-SYD (I flew that sector as a young boy).


Possibly LAX-AKL-MEL on a UA 74L? I think the DC10 service was SFO-HNL-AKL-SYD between 1990-93 daily, LAX-SYD on the 744 started in 1990 I believe, while LAX-AKL-MEL started on the 744 in 1991 3x weekly, while there was 3x weekly SYD-BNE and 4x weekly SYD-MEL extension, SFO-SYD non stop started around 1993 on the 744.
 
Sprite8806
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:18 am

Any chance Jetstar regional will ever come back? I really miss those Dash 8s
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:21 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
Any chance Jetstar regional will ever come back? I really miss those Dash 8s


Very unlikely.
 
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qf2220
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:48 am

Is there room for a Qantaslink operation there instead?
 
getluv
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:06 am

With QF and NZ code-sharing on each others domestic networks I don’t think it’s necessary for QF to consider ruining the truce.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:33 am

getluv wrote:
With QF and NZ code-sharing on each others domestic networks I don’t think it’s necessary for QF to consider ruining the truce.



No and QF would have a higher cost base than JQ.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:03 am

Here is a good article about the challenge that Air NZ faces now. Not enough planes with the 8 772s gone and high demand so it's likely going to loose market share. One error is saying that Air NZ were up to 3 daily to LAX. It was a maximum of 15 flights per week with the one service via RAR.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... app-iPhone
 
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DUDtoDFW
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:44 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Here is a good article about the challenge that Air NZ faces now. Not enough planes with the 8 772s gone and high demand so it's likely going to loose market share. One error is saying that Air NZ were up to 3 daily to LAX. It was a maximum of 15 flights per week with the one service via RAR.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... app-iPhone


Excellent. Bring on lower NZ market share and more competition. New Zealand as a whole will do better with a (relatively) smaller but still profitable NZ competing with more airlines at different price points. eg having DL instead of an extra NZ frequency on AKL-LAX not only provides fare competition but makes a New Zealand vacation more accessible to the vast number of DL frequent flyers. Hopefully the missing 77E capacity on the Tasman is replaced by more low cost offerings. I've mentioned it before but I think now is a great time for Bonza to jump in and really go after the trans-tasman VFR market, if/when they get the planes and have the right bases set up. DUD/CHC/WLG/PMR/HLZ/AKL-OOL/BNE could all potentially work 1-2x per week on their model.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 10108
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:05 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Here is a good article about the challenge that Air NZ faces now. Not enough planes with the 8 772s gone and high demand so it's likely going to loose market share. One error is saying that Air NZ were up to 3 daily to LAX. It was a maximum of 15 flights per week with the one service via RAR.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... app-iPhone


Hmm maybe, like I’ve said before Greg Foran has said he sees a wide body fleet of 23-24 long term with increased utilisation, ie flying back of clock to RAR/CNS, again you have to remember they haven’t yet re activated the 7th 77W, they would likely have the same problem with the 77E, to many planes and not enough crew to fly them. I’m sure NZ are aware of things but there may not be a great deal they can do about some of them.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:53 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
. . .flying back of clock to RAR/CNS,

I view the fact that Australian airlines are increasingly flying nonstop to the Pacific Islands as being a direct result of NZ's lack of attention to this market. As with North America, AKL is perfectly positioned to be the connecting hub of choice for all of Australia to access Polynesia. Back of the clock to the islands is the only way it can be done without requiring a completely new Tasman timetable. The existing morning departure bank ex AKL to Australia and the evening bank aggregating services from Australia for North America are perfectly placed for Pacific Island services as well.

They do have some flights using this bank (esp to PPT) and they from time to time dabble with RAR but the larger market is surely to APW and TBU, given the number of Samoans and Tongans living in the East coast cities. Such services would by nature be back-of-the clock and leave the islands at rather unsociable hours, but PPT does not seem to suffer unduly from this handicap. Unless NZ does tackle this, expect to see more and more point-to-point services and frequencies by Australian carriers on routes on which NZ has many natural advantages - and those advantages being eroded more and more. The A220 is key for QF here - expect to see it used to take on NZ's market position to Polynesia.
 
Toenga
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:14 pm

All very well to say Air NZ should have retained the the 777 200 (and their crews?) during covid.
But at whose expense?
Presumably the writer believes that the government should have increased its support during the period, so that now lower airfares would be bringing even more tourists here to experience the rest of our now seriously under resourced hospitality and internal transport provision.

There were far far more pressing needs on taxpayers money during covid then that.

Methinks that the writer is just concerned about the extra costs of his frequent flying forays abroad.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 10108
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:03 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
. . .flying back of clock to RAR/CNS,

I view the fact that Australian airlines are increasingly flying nonstop to the Pacific Islands as being a direct result of NZ's lack of attention to this market. As with North America, AKL is perfectly positioned to be the connecting hub of choice for all of Australia to access Polynesia. Back of the clock to the islands is the only way it can be done without requiring a completely new Tasman timetable. The existing morning departure bank ex AKL to Australia and the evening bank aggregating services from Australia for North America are perfectly placed for Pacific Island services as well.

They do have some flights using this bank (esp to PPT) and they from time to time dabble with RAR but the larger market is surely to APW and TBU, given the number of Samoans and Tongans living in the East coast cities. Such services would by nature be back-of-the clock and leave the islands at rather unsociable hours, but PPT does not seem to suffer unduly from this handicap. Unless NZ does tackle this, expect to see more and more point-to-point services and frequencies by Australian carriers on routes on which NZ has many natural advantages - and those advantages being eroded more and more. The A220 is key for QF here - expect to see it used to take on NZ's market position to Polynesia.


Do you mean neglected by NZ in the sense that they don’t connect to Australia in terms of the Islands? Back in the day with smaller fleets a lot of the Island flying was back of clock utilisation flying with 767s and 733s to TBU/APW/RAR, these services were only 1-3 weekly for a long time with the rest of the island flying done by 763/742 continuing to the US with afternoon departures ex AKL, though some of the return services would be at like 0400/0500.

They aren’t going to dramatically change the Tasman schedule to accommodate a few short haul connections although as you say PPT has often had such a schedule and will even go 77W this month.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:17 pm

Toenga wrote:
All very well to say Air NZ should have retained the the 777 200 (and their crews?) during covid.
But at whose expense?
Presumably the writer believes that the government should have increased its support during the period, so that now lower airfares would be bringing even more tourists here to experience the rest of our now seriously under resourced hospitality and internal transport provision.

There were far far more pressing needs on taxpayers money during covid then that.

Methinks that the writer is just concerned about the extra costs of his frequent flying forays abroad.

Storage costs were minimal especially considering how much disposing of them has likely cost.
Crew - the pilots were happy to take LWOP for long periods (eg like furlough) so almost all of them could’ve been retained, many with doing the occasional flight for currency etc. As for cabin crew, same deal, many were happy to take time out/furlough but the airline decided to make most of them (widebody A/c crew)redundant with many moving on to other jobs elsewhere and not coming back. There is also still a significant number of former cabin crew that have been told no to coming back (with many of them not having any disciplinary/sickleave/performance issues etc - while others that did were recalled).
 
GW54
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:05 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:41 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Toenga wrote:
All very well to say Air NZ should have retained the the 777 200 (and their crews?) during covid.
But at whose expense?
Presumably the writer believes that the government should have increased its support during the period, so that now lower airfares would be bringing even more tourists here to experience the rest of our now seriously under resourced hospitality and internal transport provision.

There were far far more pressing needs on taxpayers money during covid then that.

Methinks that the writer is just concerned about the extra costs of his frequent flying forays abroad.

Storage costs were minimal especially considering how much disposing of them has likely cost.
Crew - the pilots were happy to take LWOP for long periods (eg like furlough) so almost all of them could’ve been retained, many with doing the occasional flight for currency etc. As for cabin crew, same deal, many were happy to take time out/furlough but the airline decided to make most of them (widebody A/c crew)redundant with many moving on to other jobs elsewhere and not coming back. There is also still a significant number of former cabin crew that have been told no to coming back (with many of them not having any disciplinary/sickleave/performance issues etc - while others that did were recalled).


A number of senior B777 pilots left the Airline prematurely. A number of those pilots still had a number of years until retirement. Some were check airman i.e. Check Captains, Training and instructors. Most I am sure would have happily taken extended leave with out pay given the option. Of the 777-200s I recall four were owned and four were leased. The four that were owned could have been put into deep- storage but could be back in service currently. The ongoing issues with the 787 and Boeing were inevitable based on past history and the 777-200 was the perfect solution to the capacity short fall the Airline faces today.
 
GW54
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:05 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:46 pm

After two sectors yesterday OYC appears to be off the schedule ' Tech' today. The prime AKL-WLG NZ405 at 7am was cancelled along with the return NZ412, I can only assume other sectors would have also been cancelled?
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 2:00 am

Hi im interested in understanding how Air NZ's A320 domestic fleet will change in thre future. Does anyone know how many domestic A320's they operated pre-Covid (2019), how many they A320's and A321's (3?) they have now, and how many in the future (I recall hearing 6xA321's in total by the end of the decade?). A fleet profile table would be great (the ones in the investor presentation dont split out domestic or A321's). Thanks.
 
NZ516
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 2:22 am

GW54 wrote:
After two sectors yesterday OYC appears to be off the schedule ' Tech' today. The prime AKL-WLG NZ405 at 7am was cancelled along with the return NZ412, I can only assume other sectors would have also been cancelled?


Looks like it's back tomorrow doing NZ401 AKL to WLG then NZ389 WLG to CHC.
 
NZ516
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 2:32 am

a7ala wrote:
Hi im interested in understanding how Air NZ's A320 domestic fleet will change in thre future. Does anyone know how many domestic A320's they operated pre-Covid (2019), how many they A320's and A321's (3?) they have now, and how many in the future (I recall hearing 6xA321's in total by the end of the decade?). A fleet profile table would be great (the ones in the investor presentation dont split out domestic or A321's). Thanks.


Pre covid they operated for domestic 17 CEOs OXA to OXM and OAB, OJQ ,OJR, and OJS. Plus a further 3 former international 320s OJB, OKI ,OJM to make a total fleet of 20. Those last 3 have since been retired.
Yes they have just received their 3rd 321 OYC so that the domestic fleet is back up to 20. With 4 more 321s to come in the years ahead they could have a domestic jet fleet of 24 by 2026. As further planned retirements have been postponed.

The international fleet is 13 made up of 6 320s and 7 321s with no more on order. I agree with a table would be helpful. They have one from their website but it leaves off the GE 787 order.
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 2:58 am

NZ516 wrote:
Pre covid they operated for domestic 17 CEOs OXA to OXM and OAB, OJQ ,OJR, and OJS. Plus a further 3 former international 320s OJB, OKI ,OJM to make a total fleet of 20. Those last 3 have since been retired.
Yes they have just received their 3rd 321 OYC so that the domestic fleet is back up to 20. With 4 more 321s to come in the years ahead they could have a domestic jet fleet of 24 by 2026. As further planned retirements have been postponed.

The international fleet is 13 made up of 6 320s and 7 321s with no more on order. I agree with a table would be helpful. They have one from their website but it leaves off the GE 787 order.


Thanks very much - so in summary:
2019 (pre-Covid) - 17x A320D + 3x A320I = 17 x 171 seats + 3x 168 seats = 3411 seats
Current - 17xA320D + 3xA321D = 17 x171 + 3x 217 = 3558 seats (+4%)
2026 - 17xA320D + 7xA321D = 4426 (+29%)
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:14 am

a7ala wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Pre covid they operated for domestic 17 CEOs OXA to OXM and OAB, OJQ ,OJR, and OJS. Plus a further 3 former international 320s OJB, OKI ,OJM to make a total fleet of 20. Those last 3 have since been retired.
Yes they have just received their 3rd 321 OYC so that the domestic fleet is back up to 20. With 4 more 321s to come in the years ahead they could have a domestic jet fleet of 24 by 2026. As further planned retirements have been postponed.

The international fleet is 13 made up of 6 320s and 7 321s with no more on order. I agree with a table would be helpful. They have one from their website but it leaves off the GE 787 order.


Thanks very much - so in summary:
2019 (pre-Covid) - 17x A320D + 3x A320I = 17 x 171 seats + 3x 168 seats = 3411 seats
Current - 17xA320D + 3xA321D = 17 x171 + 3x 217 = 3558 seats (+4%)
2026 - 17xA320D + 7xA321D = 4426 (+29%)


Plus the seats operated domestically by the International a321 fleet, they often appear on AKL-ZQN-AKL.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 10108
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Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:26 am

GW54 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Toenga wrote:
All very well to say Air NZ should have retained the the 777 200 (and their crews?) during covid.
But at whose expense?
Presumably the writer believes that the government should have increased its support during the period, so that now lower airfares would be bringing even more tourists here to experience the rest of our now seriously under resourced hospitality and internal transport provision.

There were far far more pressing needs on taxpayers money during covid then that.

Methinks that the writer is just concerned about the extra costs of his frequent flying forays abroad.

Storage costs were minimal especially considering how much disposing of them has likely cost.
Crew - the pilots were happy to take LWOP for long periods (eg like furlough) so almost all of them could’ve been retained, many with doing the occasional flight for currency etc. As for cabin crew, same deal, many were happy to take time out/furlough but the airline decided to make most of them (widebody A/c crew)redundant with many moving on to other jobs elsewhere and not coming back. There is also still a significant number of former cabin crew that have been told no to coming back (with many of them not having any disciplinary/sickleave/performance issues etc - while others that did were recalled).


A number of senior B777 pilots left the Airline prematurely. A number of those pilots still had a number of years until retirement. Some were check airman i.e. Check Captains, Training and instructors. Most I am sure would have happily taken extended leave with out pay given the option. Of the 777-200s I recall four were owned and four were leased. The four that were owned could have been put into deep- storage but could be back in service currently. The ongoing issues with the 787 and Boeing were inevitable based on past history and the 777-200 was the perfect solution to the capacity short fall the Airline faces today.


Hindsight is 20/20, the reality though is also and NZ aren’t the only one, given maintenance is outsourced they haven’t yet got all 7 77Ws back in service, the 772s would have needed to have Heavy maintenance as well before RTS. I do tend to agree maybe the 3 77Ws that were in AKL during covid should have been used and enough crew kept current, more than enough for 3 aircraft and crew could do enough hours to keep current. It is a bit hard to say you knew with the 787 issues in the past that there would be more issues in future.
 
NZ516
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:20 pm

a7ala wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Pre covid they operated for domestic 17 CEOs OXA to OXM and OAB, OJQ ,OJR, and OJS. Plus a further 3 former international 320s OJB, OKI ,OJM to make a total fleet of 20. Those last 3 have since been retired.
Yes they have just received their 3rd 321 OYC so that the domestic fleet is back up to 20. With 4 more 321s to come in the years ahead they could have a domestic jet fleet of 24 by 2026. As further planned retirements have been postponed.

The international fleet is 13 made up of 6 320s and 7 321s with no more on order. I agree with a table would be helpful. They have one from their website but it leaves off the GE 787 order.


Thanks very much - so in summary:
2019 (pre-Covid) - 17x A320D + 3x A320I = 17 x 171 seats + 3x 168 seats = 3411 seats
Current - 17xA320D + 3xA321D = 17 x171 + 3x 217 = 3558 seats (+4%)
2026 - 17xA320D + 7xA321D = 4426 (+29%)


Good analysis of the growth in seats available for the fleet. Domestic flying seems to grow fairly well year by year.
Some days they have used 21 domestically (1-2 international as well) so extra flights added in between the hourly services on AKL-WLG/CHC.
 
GW54
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:05 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:17 pm

NZ516 wrote:
GW54 wrote:
After two sectors yesterday OYC appears to be off the schedule ' Tech' today. The prime AKL-WLG NZ405 at 7am was cancelled along with the return NZ412, I can only assume other sectors would have also been cancelled?


Looks like it's back tomorrow doing NZ401 AKL to WLG then NZ389 WLG to CHC.[/quote

I see still not back and alot of cancellations across the network as a result today.]
 
NZ516
Posts: 2127
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:03 pm

GW54 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
GW54 wrote:
After two sectors yesterday OYC appears to be off the schedule ' Tech' today. The prime AKL-WLG NZ405 at 7am was cancelled along with the return NZ412, I can only assume other sectors would have also been cancelled?


Looks like it's back tomorrow doing NZ401 AKL to WLG then NZ389 WLG to CHC.[/quote

I see still not back and alot of cancellations across the network as a result today.]


Looks like it has changed again now on NZ613 AKL - ZQN.
 
NZ516
Posts: 2127
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:22 pm

Morning report did an interview on the Napier to Gisborne service there is an interesting 5 min podcast as well

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programm ... d-gisborne
 
User avatar
Karlos
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:43 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:02 am

Anyone know why multiple days in late March NZ appear to have scrapped NZ127 to MEL? I got cancelled on 28th but luckily found a spot on NZ123. I know of people who had bookings on NZ127 on both 29th and 30th that got bumped too...
 
GW54
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:05 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:54 pm

NZ516 wrote:
GW54 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:


Looks like it's back tomorrow doing NZ401 AKL to WLG then NZ389 WLG to CHC.[/quote

I see still not back and alot of cancellations across the network as a result today.]


Looks like it has changed again now on NZ613 AKL - ZQN.


Looking like the problem isn't with OYC. Notice that NHC hasn't flown since late Feb. If it's maintenance you would have thought that would be planned into the schedules and wouldn't cause daily disruptions. Anyone know what is happening. Seems if you fly domestically if you are lucky you will be delayed and unlucky you will be cancelled. Can't recall when I was last on a on time Airbus.
 
NZ516
Posts: 2127
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:43 pm

GW54 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
GW54 wrote:

Looks like it's back tomorrow doing NZ401 AKL to WLG then NZ389 WLG to CHC.[/quote

I see still not back and alot of cancellations across the network as a result today.]


Looks like it has changed again now on NZ613 AKL - ZQN.


Looking like the problem isn't with OYC. Notice that NHC hasn't flown since late Feb. If it's maintenance you would have thought that would be planned into the schedules and wouldn't cause daily disruptions. Anyone know what is happening. Seems if you fly domestically if you are lucky you will be delayed and unlucky you will be cancelled. Can't recall when I was last on a on time Airbus.


Not just NHC out of action but OXJ is out as well. There must be huge challenges running the schedule with two Airbus not in service.
 
NZ516
Posts: 2127
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:05 pm

Today an A321 was used for WLG to MEL for NZ253. It's been a while since Air NZ has used a 321 on the WLG to Tasman flights it's also flying MEL- ZQN this afternoon. Or it could just be covering for NHC perhaps.
Last edited by NZ516 on Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Mr AirNZ
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 10:24 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:14 pm

NZ516 wrote:
GW54 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Looks like it has changed again now on NZ613 AKL - ZQN.


Looking like the problem isn't with OYC. Notice that NHC hasn't flown since late Feb. If it's maintenance you would have thought that would be planned into the schedules and wouldn't cause daily disruptions. Anyone know what is happening. Seems if you fly domestically if you are lucky you will be delayed and unlucky you will be cancelled. Can't recall when I was last on a on time Airbus.


Not just NHC out of action but OXJ is out as well. There must be huge challenges running the schedule with two Airbus not in service.

Both are out for hangar maintenance. There are usually two to three frames cycling through the shop for maintenance at any one time. The entire fleet is very rarely assumed to be available and the schedule reflects that. OXD is also presently in the hangar.

In addition to this, AOG situations do occur as in any airline and that then falls to the day of ops team(s) to sort/manage.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 10108
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:58 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Today an A321 was used for WLG to MEL for NZ253. It's been a while since Air NZ has used a 321 on the WLG to Tasman flights it's also flying MEL- ZQN this afternoon. Or it could just be covering for NHC perhaps.


I would think super rugby super round in MEL might have something to do with the A321 on WEL-MEL. Not sure about CHC as both Crusaders and Highlanders played as well overnight.
 
zkncj
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:21 pm

GW54 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
GW54 wrote:

Looks like it's back tomorrow doing NZ401 AKL to WLG then NZ389 WLG to CHC.[/quote

I see still not back and alot of cancellations across the network as a result today.]


Looks like it has changed again now on NZ613 AKL - ZQN.


Looking like the problem isn't with OYC. Notice that NHC hasn't flown since late Feb. If it's maintenance you would have thought that would be planned into the schedules and wouldn't cause daily disruptions. Anyone know what is happening. Seems if you fly domestically if you are lucky you will be delayed and unlucky you will be cancelled. Can't recall when I was last on a on time Airbus.


Weather hammers the load/de-load of the a320/1’s domesticity. When there is either heavy rain or band wind it effects them using the rear door, which effects boarding times. All it takes it for the first couple of flights of the day to get held up by weather, and the delays just keep stacking for the rest of the day.

Also the early morning A321’s ex AKL, often get delayed on there return sectors from MEL,BNE,SYD (SYD is especially bad).

If you on one of the afternoon services across the Tasman where the aircraft is on its second turn you can almost expect it to be late.

AKL needs to set up some of its international gates, to allow dual boarding for the a321’s. It would help turn times on the Tasman runs.
 
NZ516
Posts: 2127
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:47 am

Also the ground stability issue adds delays to the unloading of the 320/321s.
 
NZ516
Posts: 2127
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:49 am

Christchurch airport is back in profit thanks to a increase in events in the revitalized city bringing in more visitors among other factors.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.scoop.co ... profit.htm
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 10108
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:55 am

NZ1 diverted to RAR this morning, planned due to cyclone activity in the pacific.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4831
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:12 am

zkncj wrote:
GW54 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Looks like it has changed again now on NZ613 AKL - ZQN.


Looking like the problem isn't with OYC. Notice that NHC hasn't flown since late Feb. If it's maintenance you would have thought that would be planned into the schedules and wouldn't cause daily disruptions. Anyone know what is happening. Seems if you fly domestically if you are lucky you will be delayed and unlucky you will be cancelled. Can't recall when I was last on a on time Airbus.


Weather hammers the load/de-load of the a320/1’s domesticity. When there is either heavy rain or band wind it effects them using the rear door, which effects boarding times. All it takes it for the first couple of flights of the day to get held up by weather, and the delays just keep stacking for the rest of the day.

Also the early morning A321’s ex AKL, often get delayed on there return sectors from MEL,BNE,SYD (SYD is especially bad).

If you on one of the afternoon services across the Tasman where the aircraft is on its second turn you can almost expect it to be late.

AKL needs to set up some of its international gates, to allow dual boarding for the a321’s. It would help turn times on the Tasman runs.

It sure does! Although previously (and possibly still the case) at AKL domestic it wasn’t even weather related half the time - it was lack of staff preventing rear stairs being used.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 10108
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:30 am

Changes or schedules for AKL NS23. A few I’ll miss, maybe some errors.

NZ
LAX 7x 77W, 10x from July
IAH 6-7x 77W (currently 789 x5)
SFO 5x 789 (77W from May 15th, currently 77W)
ORD 3x 789
JFK 3x 789
HNL 3x 789 5x from July
YVR 5-7 789
NRT 7x 789
HKG 7x 789
PVG 7x 789
SIN 7x 789, 7x 77W, 14x 789 from May 15th
ICN 3x 789
TPE 3x 789
DPS 3x 789 5x from July
PPT 2x 77W, 1x 789
NAN 7x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
RAR 6x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
APW 3x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
TBU 2x 789, 4x 321
NOU 3x 321
IUE 1x 320, 2x from July
PER 7x 332 (Wamos)
SYD 7x 77W, 28x 321
MEL 7x 77W, 20x 321/320
BNE 7x 789, 13x 321/320 77W from May 14
CNS 3x 320
ADL 4x 321
OOL 7x 321 (9x from July)
HBA 2x 320

QF
SYD 27x 738, 7x 333, 3x 789 from July SYD-AKL-JFK
MEL 28x 738
BNE 7x 332, 7x 738
JFK 3x 789 from June

FJ
NAN 7x 332, 7x 7M8

SB
NOU 3x 320

TN
PPT 3x 789

NF
VLI 3x 738

LA
SCL 7x 789
SYD 7x 789

UA
SFO 3x 789, 772 from June, 7x from July

HA
HNL 3x 332

EK
DXB 7x 388

QR
DOH-ADL 7x 77W

SQ
SIN 7x 359 (currently 77W)

MH
KUL 8x 332

KE
ICN 5x 772

CI
TPE-BNE 5x 359

CZ
CAN 7x 789

MU
PVG 4x 789

CX
HKG 3x 359
 
mrkerr7474
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:55 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:48 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Changes or schedules for AKL NS23. A few I’ll miss, maybe some errors.

NZ
LAX 7x 77W, 10x from July
IAH 6-7x 77W (currently 789 x5)
SFO 5x 789 (77W from May 15th, currently 77W)
ORD 3x 789
JFK 3x 789
HNL 3x 789 5x from July
YVR 5-7 789
NRT 7x 789
HKG 7x 789
PVG 7x 789
SIN 7x 789, 7x 77W, 14x 789 from May 15th
ICN 3x 789
TPE 3x 789
DPS 3x 789 5x from July
PPT 2x 77W, 1x 789
NAN 7x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
RAR 6x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
APW 3x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
TBU 2x 789, 4x 321
NOU 3x 321
IUE 1x 320, 2x from July
PER 7x 332 (Wamos)
SYD 7x 77W, 28x 321
MEL 7x 77W, 20x 321/320
BNE 7x 789, 13x 321/320 77W from May 14
CNS 3x 320
ADL 4x 321
OOL 7x 321 (9x from July)
HBA 2x 320

QF
SYD 27x 738, 7x 333, 3x 789 from July SYD-AKL-JFK
MEL 28x 738
BNE 7x 332, 7x 738
JFK 3x 789 from June

FJ
NAN 7x 332, 7x 7M8

SB
NOU 3x 320

TN
PPT 3x 789

NF
VLI 3x 738

LA
SCL 7x 789
SYD 7x 789

UA
SFO 3x 789, 772 from June, 7x from July

HA
HNL 3x 332

EK
DXB 7x 388

QR
DOH-ADL 7x 77W

SQ
SIN 7x 359 (currently 77W)

MH
KUL 8x 332

KE
ICN 5x 772

CI
TPE-BNE 5x 359

CZ
CAN 7x 789

MU
PVG 4x 789

CX
HKG 3x 359


Does AA only fly seasonal to AKL? And UA flies year round to SFO?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 10108
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:59 am

mrkerr7474 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Changes or schedules for AKL NS23. A few I’ll miss, maybe some errors.

NZ
LAX 7x 77W, 10x from July
IAH 6-7x 77W (currently 789 x5)
SFO 5x 789 (77W from May 15th, currently 77W)
ORD 3x 789
JFK 3x 789
HNL 3x 789 5x from July
YVR 5-7 789
NRT 7x 789
HKG 7x 789
PVG 7x 789
SIN 7x 789, 7x 77W, 14x 789 from May 15th
ICN 3x 789
TPE 3x 789
DPS 3x 789 5x from July
PPT 2x 77W, 1x 789
NAN 7x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
RAR 6x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
APW 3x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
TBU 2x 789, 4x 321
NOU 3x 321
IUE 1x 320, 2x from July
PER 7x 332 (Wamos)
SYD 7x 77W, 28x 321
MEL 7x 77W, 20x 321/320
BNE 7x 789, 13x 321/320 77W from May 14
CNS 3x 320
ADL 4x 321
OOL 7x 321 (9x from July)
HBA 2x 320

QF
SYD 27x 738, 7x 333, 3x 789 from July SYD-AKL-JFK
MEL 28x 738
BNE 7x 332, 7x 738
JFK 3x 789 from June

FJ
NAN 7x 332, 7x 7M8

SB
NOU 3x 320

TN
PPT 3x 789

NF
VLI 3x 738

LA
SCL 7x 789
SYD 7x 789

UA
SFO 3x 789, 772 from June, 7x from July

HA
HNL 3x 332

EK
DXB 7x 388

QR
DOH-ADL 7x 77W

SQ
SIN 7x 359 (currently 77W)

MH
KUL 8x 332

KE
ICN 5x 772

CI
TPE-BNE 5x 359

CZ
CAN 7x 789

MU
PVG 4x 789

CX
HKG 3x 359


Does AA only fly seasonal to AKL? And UA flies year round to SFO?


Yes, it will be interesting to see if AA add LAX-AKL again next NW, plus DL who I believe are planning year round.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 5412
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:08 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
MH
KUL 8x 332

Is there really only the 332 on this route? Flightaware shows the 359 operating sometimes.
 
PA515
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:14 am

Last month I mentioned that ZK-OKO had been relisted on https://www.myairtrade.com available 10 Nov 2023, but that was incorrect. It's a different 2011 77W leased from BBAM, A6-EGI (L/N 974) delivered to EK 10 Nov 2011, so its 12 years will be up 10 Nov 2023.

If Air NZ was interested in this 77W it would need a new interior, but maybe some ex Air NZ 77E interiors will be available.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 10108
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:22 am

planemanofnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
MH
KUL 8x 332

Is there really only the 332 on this route? Flightaware shows the 359 operating sometimes.


The A359 does show up, anyway tbh I’m not 100% sure but I believe AKL-KUL is 8 weekly.

SQ just reintroduced the 77W and F on it, back to an A359 over NS, perhaps the 77W is needed elsewhere or F just hasn’t sold. I’m still hopeful they will find a place for the A380 to come back in NW.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1683
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:26 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Changes or schedules for AKL NS23. A few I’ll miss, maybe some errors.

NZ
SIN 7x 789, 7x 77W, 14x 789 from May 15th

SQ
SIN 7x 359 (currently 77W)



Wow - so if SQ pulls 77W off, for northern summer, that means no first class available on SIN-AKL route during this period. Interesting development.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1683
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:31 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
MH
KUL 8x 332

Is there really only the 332 on this route? Flightaware shows the 359 operating sometimes.


The A359 does show up, anyway tbh I’m not 100% sure but I believe AKL-KUL is 8 weekly.

SQ just reintroduced the 77W and F on it, back to an A359 over NS, perhaps the 77W is needed elsewhere or F just hasn’t sold. I’m still hopeful they will find a place for the A380 to come back in NW.


Agreed MH seems to be 8 weekly - a mix of overnight and daytime flights in each direction. I don't think the 359 is reliably bookable much of the year - they seem to use 359 1 flight a week some of the time... quite a difference in quality of on-board product for sure. Roll on the 339. Not sure about the delivery timeline on that a/c though.
 
NZ516
Posts: 2127
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation - March 2023

Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:38 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Changes or schedules for AKL NS23. A few I’ll miss, maybe some errors.

NZ
LAX 7x 77W, 10x from July
IAH 6-7x 77W (currently 789 x5)
SFO 5x 789 (77W from May 15th, currently 77W)
ORD 3x 789
JFK 3x 789
HNL 3x 789 5x from July
YVR 5-7 789
NRT 7x 789
HKG 7x 789
PVG 7x 789
SIN 7x 789, 7x 77W, 14x 789 from May 15th
ICN 3x 789
TPE 3x 789
DPS 3x 789 5x from July
PPT 2x 77W, 1x 789
NAN 7x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
RAR 6x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
APW 3x 789, 1x 77W, 6x 321
TBU 2x 789, 4x 321
NOU 3x 321
IUE 1x 320, 2x from July
PER 7x 332 (Wamos)
SYD 7x 77W, 28x 321
MEL 7x 77W, 20x 321/320
BNE 7x 789, 13x 321/320 77W from May 14
CNS 3x 320
ADL 4x 321
OOL 7x 321 (9x from July)
HBA 2x 320

QF
SYD 27x 738, 7x 333, 3x 789 from July SYD-AKL-JFK
MEL 28x 738
BNE 7x 332, 7x 738
JFK 3x 789 from June

FJ
NAN 7x 332, 7x 7M8

SB
NOU 3x 320

TN
PPT 3x 789

NF
VLI 3x 738

LA
SCL 7x 789
SYD 7x 789

UA
SFO 3x 789, 772 from June, 7x from July

HA
HNL 3x 332

EK
DXB 7x 388

QR
DOH-ADL 7x 77W

SQ
SIN 7x 359 (currently 77W)

MH
KUL 8x 332

KE
ICN 5x 772

CI
TPE-BNE 5x 359

CZ
CAN 7x 789

MU
PVG 4x 789

CX
HKG 3x 359


Only one I can see is missing is:

NZ
MCY 3x 320

I believe CNS goes to 4pw in July. I think it's a real big increase in flying from the current schedule. With little slack available in the existing fleets. It's going to be a challenge to accommodate all of the flying.
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