Irish 3/23: The March of time

OA260 · Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:47 pm

Im currently onboard the second flight of the season on Aegeans DUB - ATH . Free wifi, good food and power sockets. First time using T1 in ages. The check in with Swissport was very well organised and the fast track was ok. It looks a bit prefab though so maybe changes are coming . Im so used to T2 that T1 does look and feel very dated even with the patch ups.

Flight departed from Gate 210 flight nearly full in Business and 80% down the back which is impressive for early March to Greece. Aegean could have added a few more rotations between April to October but I guess played it safe. Hopefully they will up it for 2024 and the rumoured ORK flight might actually happen.

ClassicLover · Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:33 pm

OA260 wrote:
Flight departed from Gate 210 flight nearly full in Business and 80% down the back which is impressive for early March to Greece. Aegean could have added a few more rotations between April to October but I guess played it safe. Hopefully they will up it for 2024 and the rumoured ORK flight might actually happen.

Their business class catering always looks so nice!

They really do seem to be a great quality airline.

Thanks for sharing the pics!

planemanofnz · Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:34 pm

OA260 wrote:
Im currently onboard the second flight of the season on Aegeans DUB - ATH . Free wifi, good food and power sockets. First time using T1 in ages. The check in with Swissport was very well organised and the fast track was ok. It looks a bit prefab though so maybe changes are coming . Im so used to T2 that T1 does look and feel very dated even with the patch ups.

Flight departed from Gate 210 flight nearly full in Business and 80% down the back which is impressive for early March to Greece. Aegean could have added a few more rotations between April to October but I guess played it safe. Hopefully they will up it for 2024 and the rumoured ORK flight might actually happen.

What is the pax mix on this sector - is it mainly holidaymakers? I didn't think there were that many Ireland-Greece businesses connections, but maybe I'm wrong.

OA260 · Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:29 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Flight departed from Gate 210 flight nearly full in Business and 80% down the back which is impressive for early March to Greece. Aegean could have added a few more rotations between April to October but I guess played it safe. Hopefully they will up it for 2024 and the rumoured ORK flight might actually happen.

Their business class catering always looks so nice!

They really do seem to be a great quality airline.

Thanks for sharing the pics!

Yes they are a great airline I missed the direct flight over the Winter and had to go via LHR . Its always nice to give feedback on non Irish airlines out of Ireland.

Their IT is pretty impressive from digital bag tag receipts on the app to gate and transit info. A3 sent me the gate a few hours before it was on the screens at DUB.

OA260 · Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:34 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Im currently onboard the second flight of the season on Aegeans DUB - ATH . Free wifi, good food and power sockets. First time using T1 in ages. The check in with Swissport was very well organised and the fast track was ok. It looks a bit prefab though so maybe changes are coming . Im so used to T2 that T1 does look and feel very dated even with the patch ups.

Flight departed from Gate 210 flight nearly full in Business and 80% down the back which is impressive for early March to Greece. Aegean could have added a few more rotations between April to October but I guess played it safe. Hopefully they will up it for 2024 and the rumoured ORK flight might actually happen.

What is the pax mix on this sector - is it mainly holidaymakers? I didn't think there were that many Ireland-Greece businesses connections, but maybe I'm wrong.

It was a real mix . Business Class was a mix of Greek , Irish and a few English business types . Y was Irish
tourists , Greek tourists and ex pats . There were a few connections to North Africa and a small number of Americans . Come April onwards I would expect the Irish tourists to be the majority with many connecting to JTR JMK etc ...

Eagleboy · Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:53 am

To support my comment above regarding Ramon Ryan;

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/statu ... fZG3w&s=19

Jesus,Mary and the little Donkey!!!

Eirules · Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:38 pm

Eagleboy wrote:
To support my comment above regarding Ramon Ryan;

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/statu ... fZG3w&s=19

Jesus,Mary and the little Donkey!!!

But yet him flying business class to China & Hong Kong next week is necessary. Clown

Eagleboy · Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:36 pm

Eirules wrote:
..........
But yet him flying business class to China & Hong Kong next week is necessary. Clown

I actually dont have an issue with that.
He is representing our country, thus he needs a certain level of rest enroute. I feel that criticising govt ministers for flying abroad and/or using J Class is a bit shallow. (We we see all the online comments next week regarding the annual Patricks day departures)

Commercial aviation is vital to the Irish and global economy. And is one of the few industry's committed to reducing fossil fuel usage for decades now (albeit for a selfish reason)

nickya340 · Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:16 pm

QR will increase DOH-DUB from X12 to X14 weekly in June. https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-r ... s-releases

Eirules · Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:24 pm

Eagleboy wrote:
Eirules wrote:
..........
But yet him flying business class to China & Hong Kong next week is necessary. Clown

I actually dont have an issue with that.
He is representing our country, thus he needs a certain level of rest enroute. I feel that criticising govt ministers for flying abroad and/or using J Class is a bit shallow. (We we see all the online comments next week regarding the annual Patricks day departures)

Commercial aviation is vital to the Irish and global economy. And is one of the few industry's committed to reducing fossil fuel usage for decades now (albeit for a selfish reason)

I have zero issue with a minister flying abroad in J whether it be for Patrick’s day or other. I do however have an issue with this individual telling commuters their journey to work in their car isn’t essential even though there’s no viable alternative or this same individual who all but closed the country in Jan 21 because connectivity wasn’t important apparently

kaitak · Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:33 am

I still think it was a very bad idea to appoint someone as Transport who is pretty much opposed to transport in almost every form. I liked ER personally, but he really should have asked for a different portfolio.

Anyway, here's a little historical snippet, from Skyliner:
Boeing 737 -448(F) 24474 1742 N474AE Aeronaves TSM regd 03mar23 prior delivery ex MIA ex LZ-CGR

N474AE started its life as EI-BXA, back in July 1989; it served with Aer Lingus for almost exactly 11 years, then went to Luxor Air and Aeronaves TSM will be its 13th operator.

planemanofnz · Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:27 am

nickya340 wrote:
QR will increase DOH-DUB from X12 to X14 weekly in June. https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-r ... s-releases

What levels will EK and EY be at?

nickya340 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:53 am

planemanofnz wrote:
nickya340 wrote:
QR will increase DOH-DUB from X12 to X14 weekly in June. https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-r ... s-releases

What levels will EK and EY be at?

EK will remain double daily and EY will stay at daily. I think pre covid EY used to be more than daily but that’s the case for a lot of Etihad routes. They’ve a long way to go to catch up w. QR and EK again.

planemanofnz · Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:10 am

nickya340 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
nickya340 wrote:
QR will increase DOH-DUB from X12 to X14 weekly in June. https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-r ... s-releases

What levels will EK and EY be at?

EK will remain double daily and EY will stay at daily. I think pre covid EY used to be more than daily but that’s the case for a lot of Etihad routes. They’ve a long way to go to catch up w. QR and EK again.

That's a huge amount of capacity to the Middle East. Surely one of the Asian carriers like SQ would see a market to tap/stimulate at DUB.

Jake801 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:36 am

planemanofnz wrote:
nickya340 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
What levels will EK and EY be at?

EK will remain double daily and EY will stay at daily. I think pre covid EY used to be more than daily but that’s the case for a lot of Etihad routes. They’ve a long way to go to catch up w. QR and EK again.

That's a huge amount of capacity to the Middle East. Surely one of the Asian carriers like SQ would see a market to tap/stimulate at DUB.

God I hope so, CX had a rough geopolitical space to work with less than a year after starting, followed by C19. Nevertheless you would worry that painted DUB with an unviable brush for the other Asian carriers. Would be great if Hainan eventually came back as has been mooted.

BrianDromey · Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:56 am

planemanofnz wrote:
That's a huge amount of capacity to the Middle East. Surely one of the Asian carriers like SQ would see a market to tap/stimulate at DUB.

You’d wonder if the 5 daily flights to the ME is extracting too much demand for CX, SQ, KE etc to take a risk? The ME hubs, and TK give great fares, highly rated service and hard products as well as huge networks. It’s tough to compete with unless there is strong O&D across all the cabins.
None of the three routes CX started of DUB, CPH and BRU have returned and DUB has a much more suitable runway for Asian operations now. So a lot has changed since 2019.

OA260 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:58 am

I dont see CX coming back soon I think with we see SQ as a tag before that happens .

EI321 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:59 am

In the long term it will be strategically important to get a mainland China route back also.

I wonder would Air India consider DUB eventually, the Indian population here is increasing every year.

Jake801 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:07 am

OA260 wrote:
I dont see CX coming back soon I think with we see SQ as a tag before that happens .

I agree, I think SQ the most likely of those SE Asian carriers now... Perhaps a tag from BRU, don't think they ever started that after announcing it shortly before C19. If Thai Airways can't start MAN I don't see any hope for them in DUB.

planemanofnz · Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:53 am

BrianDromey wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
That's a huge amount of capacity to the Middle East. Surely one of the Asian carriers like SQ would see a market to tap/stimulate at DUB.

You’d wonder if the 5 daily flights to the ME is extracting too much demand for CX, SQ, KE etc to take a risk? The ME hubs, and TK give great fares, highly rated service and hard products as well as huge networks. It’s tough to compete with ...

SQ would be more than able to compete. They offer a superior network to the ME3 and TK in Southeast Asia, Australia and New Zealand, and with their 359s or 77Ws (which would be used to DUB), a superior product to EK's 77W's and QR's 788's used to DUB, across all classes.

Regarding CX, we may see them again. They haven't resumed a number of ports yet, given lack of crew and HKG's slower path to re-opening. But they expect to get back to pre-pandemic levels by the end of 2024. HKG has its issues, but still offers great connections.

planemanofnz · Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:57 am

Jake801 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
I dont see CX coming back soon I think with we see SQ as a tag before that happens .

I agree, I think SQ the most likely of those SE Asian carriers now... Perhaps a tag from BRU

I can't see a tag via a European port working - it erodes the competitiveness of any service against the ME3.

However, perhaps they could switch MAN-IAH to DUB-IAH. IAH is the biggest US city without a DUB service. Meanwhile, SQ is already well established in MAN and has less of a need for a tag to support it there now.

JAmie2k9 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:24 pm

Emerald add DUB-Brest x2 weekly and Liverpool x11 weekly.

shamrock604 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:41 pm

Jake801 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
nickya340 wrote:

EK will remain double daily and EY will stay at daily. I think pre covid EY used to be more than daily but that’s the case for a lot of Etihad routes. They’ve a long way to go to catch up w. QR and EK again.

That's a huge amount of capacity to the Middle East. Surely one of the Asian carriers like SQ would see a market to tap/stimulate at DUB.

God I hope so, CX had a rough geopolitical space to work with less than a year after starting, followed by C19. Nevertheless you would worry that painted DUB with an unviable brush for the other Asian carriers. Would be great if Hainan eventually came back as has been mooted.

DUB lasted far longer than BRU or CPH, only stopping when HK protests started, and then Covid. I used it quite a bit, and it was always busy. I have confidence we’ll see it back at some point.

Clydenairways · Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:42 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Emerald add DUB-Brest x2 weekly and Liverpool x11 weekly.

I think Stobart used to do Lorient back in the day so i think more links to Brittany should do good.

BangersAndMash · Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:54 pm

Clydenairways wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Emerald add DUB-Brest x2 weekly and Liverpool x11 weekly.

I think Stobart used to do Lorient back in the day so i think more links to Brittany should do good.

Agreed on the prospects. AF has cut back quite significantly lately from Brittany in general and BES in particular. There's definitely some hub traffic there for the taking on top of the O&D. Especially if Emerald maintain the decent prices and good operations they've shown so far.

nickya340 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:55 pm

Clydenairways wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Emerald add DUB-Brest x2 weekly and Liverpool x11 weekly.

I think Stobart used to do Lorient back in the day so i think more links to Brittany should do good.

Yeah LRT was a good while back then they did RNS instead a few years ago. Both from Ork and dub IIRC

BDKLEZ · Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:42 pm

Just continuing with the current Emerald theme, I see EI-HDJ heading north ex DUB positioning to BHD. It made me think, how often do they swap out their BHD based a/c?

ClassicLover · Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:01 pm

Saw today that Aer Lingus are selling MAN to MCO and JFK for £950 return in business class.

Travel is November to February, so if you want a cheap fare across the Atlantic, that's the one to get

OA260 · Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:10 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
Saw today that Aer Lingus are selling MAN to MCO and JFK for £950 return in business class.

Travel is November to February, so if you want a cheap fare across the Atlantic, that's the one to get

Thats great value quite a lot of competition this Winter so fares might be more like that.

Eirules · Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:36 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
Saw today that Aer Lingus are selling MAN to MCO and JFK for £950 return in business class.

Travel is November to February, so if you want a cheap fare across the Atlantic, that's the one to get

I saw them but only bookable through an OTA & still no definitive confirmation you can earn BA TPs so I didn’t pull the trigger

ClassicLover · Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:43 pm

Eirules wrote:
I saw them but only bookable through an OTA & still no definitive confirmation you can earn BA TPs so I didn’t pull the trigger

You definitely can't earn BA TPs at this time, so probably the correct decision.

OA260 · Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:48 am

The geography works in our favour for a transatlantic hub’ – Aer Lingus chief Lynne Embleton wants the airline to be a key bridge across the Atlantic

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 76640.html

An interview with Lynne Embleton

tibsthefox · Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:19 am

DUO back on FR24 as EI2535 again, hopefully we see her back today

planemanofnz · Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:40 am

OA260 wrote:
The geography works in our favour for a transatlantic hub’ – Aer Lingus chief Lynne Embleton wants the airline to be a key bridge across the Atlantic

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 76640.html

An interview with Lynne Embleton

Behind a paywall, but nothing really new, is it?!

David_itl · Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:46 am

planemanofnz wrote:
However, perhaps they could switch MAN-IAH to DUB-IAH. IAH is the biggest US city without a DUB service. Meanwhile, SQ is already well established in MAN and has less of a need for a tag to support it there now.

What is your fixation on stopping MAN having an IAH route? When SQ wanted to change it's SIN-DME-IAH routing a few years ago, if what you say it so obvious, why didn't they announce that and keep MAN as a terminator service? There's absolutely no reason to think that the Irish Government would automatically allow SQ 5th freedom rights when they wouldn't even allow ET rights to DUB-MAN, As for the statement "less of a need", we know that they planned 5 weekly SIN-MAN-IAH for the summer is now a 3 weekly SIN-MAN-IAH and 2 weekly SIN-MAN. The MAN service is not in dire need of having a stop-off point By your reasoning, why don't you get SQ to alter it's SIN-FRA-JFK routing to SIN-DUB-JFK instead after all FRA is already established route and has less of a need for a tag to support it there now.

Jake801 · Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:14 am

David_itl wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
However, perhaps they could switch MAN-IAH to DUB-IAH. IAH is the biggest US city without a DUB service. Meanwhile, SQ is already well established in MAN and has less of a need for a tag to support it there now.

What is your fixation on stopping MAN having an IAH route? When SQ wanted to change it's SIN-DME-IAH routing a few years ago, if what you say it so obvious, why didn't they announce that and keep MAN as a terminator service? There's absolutely no reason to think that the Irish Government would automatically allow SQ 5th freedom rights when they wouldn't even allow ET rights to DUB-MAN, As for the statement "less of a need", we know that they planned 5 weekly SIN-MAN-IAH for the summer is now a 3 weekly SIN-MAN-IAH and 2 weekly SIN-MAN. The MAN service is not in dire need of having a stop-off point By your reasoning, why don't you get SQ to alter it's SIN-FRA-JFK routing to SIN-DUB-JFK instead after all FRA is already established route and has less of a need for a tag to support it there now.

That escalated quickly...

PhilipBass · Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:50 am

OA260 wrote:
The geography works in our favour for a transatlantic hub’ – Aer Lingus chief Lynne Embleton wants the airline to be a key bridge across the Atlantic

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 76640.html

An interview with Lynne Embleton

A large infrstructure project to put an artifical floating Island half way between Europe and East Coast America so that pilots and crew could land and then get back home to their home base in one shift would make the life of passengers and crew much better. If it meant that the planes only carried half as much fuel the savings for the airlines and the environment would be immense.
DHL use containers with stilts on the back of lorries so that their drivers can return home at end of shift. Germany is too large to traverse in a shift.

Meanwhile back in reality...Dublin has some undeniable geographic advantages as an Atlantic hub but lack of passengers from Dublin as point of origin and destination works against it.

EI321 · Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:02 pm

A332 EI-DUO is due to land back in DUB today at 14:35

tibsthefox · Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:47 pm

Departure of DUO delayed, not surprising given the current industrial situation in France

PlymSpotter · Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:01 pm

Nice to see the first 332 being reactivated - I'm flying to SEA in early May with EI, and noticed it's scheduled to be a -200 not the -300 I had expected.

How long does it typically take to reactivate an aircraft like this once it's back at base in DUB?

tibsthefox · Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:29 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
Nice to see the first 332 being reactivated - I'm flying to SEA in early May with EI, and noticed it's scheduled to be a -200 not the -300 I had expected.

How long does it typically take to reactivate an aircraft like this once it's back at base in DUB?

For A330s coming out of storage, seems to be 2 - 3 weeks or thereabouts. First scheduled service on EI’s site is March 26th, which is also EI-DAA’s due home date.

I’m booked on one next month to YYZ, excited to get back on a 332 at last

Eagleboy · Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:52 pm

OA260 wrote:
The geography works in our favour for a transatlantic hub’ – Aer Lingus chief Lynne Embleton wants the airline to be a key bridge across the Atlantic

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 76640.html

An interview with Lynne Embleton

Funny. Thats the exact strategy laid out 11-12 years ago by a previous CEO......

BrianDromey · Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:58 pm

There’s nothing inherently wrong with the strategy. IB, TP and AY have used it well. In fairness it’s been working fairly well for EI and their A330s and A321LRs have reviewed well by the travel blogosphere.
The other airlines have had significant advantages in that FR doesn’t have their HQ and home base on the same campus. This the the core of Ei’s problem, it artificially limits their European operation and the investment they can wrangle out of IAG for FFP, expanded fleets for SH and digitalisation of the airline.

OA260 · Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:29 pm

Flew this evening LHR - DUB . Not the best night for travelling and quite a few delays ours being 1hr15 mins which was not too bad. EI lounge at LHR was packed standing room only due to the delays. Boarding was a bit chaotic at the gate and even worse onboard. Crew stressed and taking abuse which was uncalled for. Arguments over luggage storage in row 1/2 as is always the case on NSA/NSB.

Crew did manage to rustle me up a cheese toastie and drink but Id say they are glad that day is over. Bags took a bit longer then usual. Was going to get Dublin Express into town but everything packed up and staff gone so took a taxi.

planemanofnz · Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:32 pm

David_itl wrote:
When SQ wanted to change it's SIN-DME-IAH routing a few years ago, if what you say it so obvious, why didn't they announce that and keep MAN as a terminator service?

IIRC, DUB's runway wasn't long enough a few years ago for direct SIN services - now it has one that is (North Runway, completed August 2022).

David_itl wrote:
There's absolutely no reason to think that the Irish Government would automatically allow SQ 5th freedom rights when they wouldn't even allow ET rights to DUB-MAN

IIRC, they tend to allow it when there is not already a carrier on a route. For example, ET was granted rights on DUB-LAX when EI was not at LAX. While EI or UA may end up launching DUB-IAH afterwards (less likely than EI launching DUB-LAX), at least by then SQ would have had a few years of the IAH tag to help build up the SIN-DUB service so it could stand on its own two feet?

David_itl wrote:
... your fixation ...

Jake801 wrote:
That escalated quickly...

PlymSpotter · Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:48 pm

tibsthefox wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
Nice to see the first 332 being reactivated - I'm flying to SEA in early May with EI, and noticed it's scheduled to be a -200 not the -300 I had expected.

How long does it typically take to reactivate an aircraft like this once it's back at base in DUB?

For A330s coming out of storage, seems to be 2 - 3 weeks or thereabouts. First scheduled service on EI’s site is March 26th, which is also EI-DAA’s due home date.

I’m booked on one next month to YYZ, excited to get back on a 332 at last

Thank you - not long then! Looks like she did indeed land back this afternoon.

BDKLEZ · Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:49 pm

Guessing the dodgy weather is kicking in at BFS maybe. We currently have multiple EZYs, a Jet2 from LPA in the hold and a poor wee LJ45 from BQH that's been running round the racetrack endlessly. U2839 from LGW has given up and is heading "elsewhere" at this time. There also EZY from LPL, LGW, LTN en route and about to get in the queue.

thesupersaiyann · Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:49 pm

David_itl wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
However, perhaps they could switch MAN-IAH to DUB-IAH. IAH is the biggest US city without a DUB service. Meanwhile, SQ is already well established in MAN and has less of a need for a tag to support it there now.

What is your fixation on stopping MAN having an IAH route? When SQ wanted to change it's SIN-DME-IAH routing a few years ago, if what you say it so obvious, why didn't they announce that and keep MAN as a terminator service? There's absolutely no reason to think that the Irish Government would automatically allow SQ 5th freedom rights when they wouldn't even allow ET rights to DUB-MAN, As for the statement "less of a need", we know that they planned 5 weekly SIN-MAN-IAH for the summer is now a 3 weekly SIN-MAN-IAH and 2 weekly SIN-MAN. The MAN service is not in dire need of having a stop-off point By your reasoning, why don't you get SQ to alter it's SIN-FRA-JFK routing to SIN-DUB-JFK instead after all FRA is already established route and has less of a need for a tag to support it there now.

I'd hardly call it a fixation, he merely suggested it?
As above, DUB-MAN is fairly contested to say the least, and additionally I remember hearing that part of the reason Ethiopian was rejected on that route was due to their country's stance on the Russian invasion? I'm not entirely sure, though. If they permitted MAD-DUB in the past, I wonder why they rejected MAN-DUB otherwise.

Eirules · Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:04 pm

Not sure why but tonight’s ACE-DUB & LPA-DUB EI have both diverted to FAO. This morning’s ACE flight also went to FAO

BDKLEZ · Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:06 pm

Eirules wrote:
Not sure why but tonight’s ACE-DUB EI has diverted to FAO

Emerald 3228 to GLA also came back to DUB rather swiftly

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