Two more Skywest CRJ cities are getting the axe....

"Over the weekend, United Airlines filed plans to drop two more markets from its network: Erie, Pennsylvania, and Springfield, Illinois, as first seen in Cirium schedules and later confirmed by a carrier spokesperson.

Historically, United Express affiliate SkyWest Airlines has operated flights to both cities from Chicago. Now, the airline plans to stop serving Erie on June 1, 2023, and Springfield on May 31, 2023."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/u ... li=BBnb7Kz

Erie has ups and downs, even going without air service at all in recent years.
But IMO, Springfield is kind of a big one, for the political ramifications. The State Legislature pushed United hard to bring back service to ORD after Britt was sold and pulled from Chicago, and AA drew down the ATR's.

Allegiant has once a week seasonal service to Mesa, and twice a week to Punta Gorda, while AA runs a once-a-day CRJ7 fromDallas.

Discussion on it in the UA thread from last week

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1480023&p=23729739&hilit=spi#p23729739

AA is replacing their SPI - DFW service with 2x daily to SPI - ORD on Air Wisconsin (ironically coming from UA) on June 1, so the UA drop to SPI is not a surprise.

ERI is lobbying AA to give them at least 1x ORD to complement their CLT service

drdisque wrote:

ERI is lobbying AA to give them at least 1x ORD to complement their CLT service

Wouldn't be surprised if AA throws in a daily ORD flight at ERI considering they're getting a bunch of CRJ-200s that are being based out of ORD

Though AA just opting to up their CLT-ERI flights from E-145 to CRJ-700s is very much a possibility also

There used to be near-hourly flights either non-stop or direct between SPI and Chicago way back when. Times certainly have changed.

I expect to see more of this as ZW exits UAX. ZW CRJ's may suck but they are better than the alternative of nothing in many cases.

At one time, UA had a flight IAD-SPI that departed IAD rather late in the evening. Rumor has it that the Illinois State Legislature and other well placed people strongly advocated for that flight and finally it started. Problem was that the flight was notoriously late and eventually dropped. The plane flew from ORD -IAD first and that was also notoriously late. Word got out that its on time performance was one of the worst in the UA system. When the IAD-SPI flight was dropped, shortly after UA started MLI-IAD. How that came to be I have no idea and it didn’t last long at all.
PIA has been pushing UA off and on for a long time for a DC or NYC flight. I I do not think that will ever happen. Though, I( do think they might take up the battle again but it will be to no avail.

I believe MLI got a SCASD grant for MLI-IAD.

Sad to see United dropping so many cities! Hopefully they are doing okay! I fly them all the time, but they are going to fewer places now.

For Erie, is there any reason AA is serving it from Charlotte only now? It is way closer to ORD and PHL as AA's hubs go. Wouldn't connecting Erie with ORD or PHL makes more sense for AA's operations?

raylee67 wrote:

For Erie, is there any reason AA is serving it from Charlotte only now? It is way closer to ORD and PHL as AA's hubs go.

You more or less just answered your own question.

The shorter the distance, the more competitive that buses, trains, and/or private cars are; and thus the more pressure that's put on airline ticket prices vis-a-vis cost.

raylee67 wrote:

For Erie, is there any reason AA is serving it from Charlotte only now? It is way closer to ORD and PHL as AA's hubs go. Wouldn't connecting Erie with ORD or PHL makes more sense for AA's operations?

The did serve ERI-PHL pre-COVID. It just has not come back as PHL connectivity has been slow to return.

No surprises here. Springfield, IL is only about an hour and a half drive from STL. Erie, PA is only about an hour and a half drive from BUF. I suspect many local travelers and frequent visitors to both cities prefer using the larger nearby airports vs. taking a risky small RJ connection via ORD, where the puddle jumpers are typically the first flights to get delayed during bad weather, congestion, etc.

OzarkD9S wrote:

There used to be near-hourly flights either non-stop or direct between SPI and Chicago way back when. Times certainly have changed.

On two, sometimes three airlines flying BAc’s, 146’s, F-27’s, ATR’s and Metros…

SPI to ORD is also well served by Amtrak with 10 trips per day provided. Lots of people take the short and cheap train trip up to Chicago for business and pleasure. I'm originally from central IL, and have done that Amtrak trip many times in the past. If we were flying out, SPI was never a consideration. STL was and still is always our airport of choice. Also, BMI briefly when they had Airtran service.

With Erie's close proximity to Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Cleveland I'm surprised it doesn't appeal to an ULCC to offer service from there...

SurfandSnow wrote:

No surprises here. Springfield, IL is only about an hour and a half drive from STL. Erie, PA is only about an hour and a half drive from BUF. I suspect many local travelers and frequent visitors to both cities prefer using the larger nearby airports vs. taking a risky small RJ connection via ORD, where the puddle jumpers are typically the first flights to get delayed during bad weather, congestion, etc.

My expensive United tickets were with work to these small cities they have dropped. All leaving DSM and used to be day trips. With DSM-ORD being only 2x, 3x or 4x daily now, can't even do day trips anymore. I've found ways to conduct business without traveling because United's schedule and city drops just wasn't working anymore. If they brought back frequency and some of their dropped cities, I would reconsider because I do like to travel were I can.

Another friend used to do day trips DEN-OMA and a few other places. United hasn't brought back their 8am DEN-OMA or their 8pm OMA-DEN yet. He was a United 1K and switched his travel to Southwest that has a schedule that works for day trips DEN-OMA.

LAX772LR wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

For Erie, is there any reason AA is serving it from Charlotte only now? It is way closer to ORD and PHL as AA's hubs go.

You more or less just answered your own question.

The shorter the distance, the more competitive that buses, trains, and/or private cars are; and thus the more pressure that's put on airline ticket prices vis-a-vis cost.

I visit Erie a few times a year and I can tell you that the bus is not competing with the airport there. Further, a bus ride to either Chicago or Philadelphia is a full day of fun and adventure. There is more O&D to both than to CLT, however the highest demand out of ERI is Florida. CLT makes sense for those connections as would a ULCC a couple of times a week. Allegiant was once very near to starting service, but they convinced the airport to extend their runway first, and then never came. Erie’s traffic bleeds heavily to CLE and PIT. Traffic to NY and BOS also bleed to BUF. There is no bus service that takes you from Erie to the other 3 airports to my knowledge. People generally drive and park.

Many years ago, ERI supported multiple daily flights to PHL and ORD and believe it or not, even supported 17 DC9/BAC-111 flights to 7 cities. Now they are down to 2xERJ. AA told the airport that PHL flights were being shifted to CLT to reduce delays and cancellations, plus to declutter PHL. The official line was to offer connections at a bigger hub.

LotsaRunway wrote:

I visit Erie a few times a year and I can tell you that the bus is not competing with the airport there. Further, a bus ride to either Chicago or Philadelphia is a full day of fun and adventure. There is more O&D to both than to CLT, however the highest demand out of ERI is Florida. CLT makes sense for those connections as would a ULCC a couple of times a week. Allegiant was once very near to starting service,

Having never been there, I could only speak generally. Makes sense overall.

LotsaRunway wrote:

but they convinced the airport to extend their runway first, and then never came.

What was the length before?

LotsaRunway wrote:

Many years ago, ERI supported multiple daily flights to PHL and ORD and believe it or not, even supported 17 DC9/BAC-111 flights to 7 cities. Now they are down to 2xERJ. AA told the airport that PHL flights were being shifted to CLT to reduce delays and cancellations, plus to declutter PHL. The official line was to offer connections at a bigger hub.

Yeah but can't compare the milk-run days to now.

LAX772LR wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

I visit Erie a few times a year and I can tell you that the bus is not competing with the airport there. Further, a bus ride to either Chicago or Philadelphia is a full day of fun and adventure. There is more O&D to both than to CLT, however the highest demand out of ERI is Florida. CLT makes sense for those connections as would a ULCC a couple of times a week. Allegiant was once very near to starting service,

Having never been there, I could only speak generally. Makes sense overall.

LotsaRunway wrote:

but they convinced the airport to extend their runway first, and then never came.

What was the length before?

6500' of pavement with a 500' displaced threshold to the east. Usable, but more was needed for fuller loads, plus to meet the updated safety requirements and to not lose RJ capability.

LAX772LR wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

Many years ago, ERI supported multiple daily flights to PHL and ORD and believe it or not, even supported 17 DC9/BAC-111 flights to 7 cities. Now they are down to 2xERJ. AA told the airport that PHL flights were being shifted to CLT to reduce delays and cancellations, plus to declutter PHL. The official line was to offer connections at a bigger hub.

Yeah but can't compare the milk-run days to now.

Absolutely true! Fuel was comparatively cheap and there was little pressure to maximize daily loads. They seemed to focus more on meeting capacity during peak on the most popular leg of the milk-run.

LotsaRunway wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

For Erie, is there any reason AA is serving it from Charlotte only now? It is way closer to ORD and PHL as AA's hubs go.

Many years ago, ERI supported multiple daily flights to PHL and ORD and believe it or not, even supported 17 DC9/BAC-111 flights to 7 cities. Now they are down to 2xERJ. AA told the airport that PHL flights were being shifted to CLT to reduce delays and cancellations, plus to declutter PHL. The official line was to offer connections at a bigger hub.

Also restrictive agreements with Canada meant at least 5 jets a day up to YYZ with Mohawk (and later US).

YVR744CP wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:

There used to be near-hourly flights either non-stop or direct between SPI and Chicago way back when. Times certainly have changed.

Showing my age here. I remember when your namesake airline (OZ) used to fly Twin Otters between Meigs Field and SPI in the early 70s.

I remember growing up in the late 1990s and UA had 4x Beech 1900s on weekdays on Meigs-SPI - was one of the more interesting routes in their 800 page timetable that I used to get frequently.

Additional bummer is that UA’s summer schedule ORD-BUF is only 3x. There is an afternoon departure ~2pm and then nothing until almost ~9:30pm. The cuts in frequency (and destinations) from ORD are staring to bite a bit.

I get United is adding BCN etc., but at least going 4x to BUF with an evening departure would help with the loss of ERI’s afternoon flight to get to that part of the country.

admanager wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Many years ago, ERI supported multiple daily flights to PHL and ORD and believe it or not, even supported 17 DC9/BAC-111 flights to 7 cities. Now they are down to 2xERJ. AA told the airport that PHL flights were being shifted to CLT to reduce delays and cancellations, plus to declutter PHL. The official line was to offer connections at a bigger hub.

Also restrictive agreements with Canada meant at least 5 jets a day up to YYZ with Mohawk (and later US).

When you said "restrictive agreements with Canada", I don't suppose you mean the current agreement since it's completely open-skies now.

So do you mean the old agreement back then with Canada forced US Air to serve Erie-Toronto (which would otherwise be unprofitable)? Interesting choice to force airline to serve Erie-Toronto if that was the case. What's the rationale?

raylee67 wrote:

admanager wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

Also restrictive agreements with Canada meant at least 5 jets a day up to YYZ with Mohawk (and later US).

When you said "restrictive agreements with Canada", I don't suppose you mean the current agreement since it's completely open-skies now.

So do you mean the old agreement back then with Canada forced US Air to serve Erie-Toronto (which would otherwise be unprofitable)? Interesting choice to force airline to serve Erie-Toronto if that was the case. What's the rationale?

Back then things were much more regulated. AL had its major hub in PIT with a smaller hub in PHL, but they didn’t have the authority to fly to YYZ nonstop from those hubs. Instead, they had YYZ authority to ERI, BUF, ROC, and later also through BOS and CLE. Generally, the PHL flights stopped in ERI on the way to YYZ, also taking advantage of the O&D to ERI. Later, PHL was dropped from ERI and PIT then ran one or two YYZ flights through ERI. After deregulation, most of the stops in ERI came to an end, but one did continue for several years. It was even bumped up to a 727-200 for a while. It was the only time that the 727-200 was ever scheduled to ERI, short runway and all.

US had many mainline jets per day (DC-9s mostly) to PIT from ERI during the hub era as well. While US couldn't fly nonstop PIT-YYZ and had to go through ERI, DL was regularly running multiple 757s from PIT-YYZ each day because they had the authority at the time.

Different times back then. Similar to how current government policies have caused us to have all of these regional jets give 10x daily service to NYC to preserve slots instead of serve the regional airports they were intended for (like ERI).

To put things into perspective to how different things were in the 70s, Allegheny along with flights to ORD, PIT, YYZ and MDT from ERI, they had one DC-9 flight a day to Bradford. Such different and interesting times.

LotsaRunway wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

admanager wrote:

Also restrictive agreements with Canada meant at least 5 jets a day up to YYZ with Mohawk (and later US).

When you said "restrictive agreements with Canada", I don't suppose you mean the current agreement since it's completely open-skies now.

So do you mean the old agreement back then with Canada forced US Air to serve Erie-Toronto (which would otherwise be unprofitable)? Interesting choice to force airline to serve Erie-Toronto if that was the case. What's the rationale?

Back then things were much more regulated. AL had its major hub in PIT with a smaller hub in PHL, but they didn’t have the authority to fly to YYZ nonstop from those hubs. Instead, they had YYZ authority to ERI, BUF, ROC, and later also through BOS and CLE. Generally, the PHL flights stopped in ERI on the way to YYZ, also taking advantage of the O&D to ERI. Later, PHL was dropped from ERI and PIT then ran one or two YYZ flights through ERI. After deregulation, most of the stops in ERI came to an end, but one did continue for several years. It was even bumped up to a 727-200 for a while. It was the only time that the 727-200 was ever scheduled to ERI, short runway and all.

Interesting. Thanks for the details! Especially for BUF-YYZ. Can't imagine a route like that would ever happen now.

pgh234 wrote:

US had many mainline jets per day (DC-9s mostly) to PIT from ERI during the hub era as well. While US couldn't fly nonstop PIT-YYZ and had to go through ERI, DL was regularly running multiple 757s from PIT-YYZ each day because they had the authority at the time.

Different times back then. Similar to how current government policies have caused us to have all of these regional jets give 10x daily service to NYC to preserve slots instead of serve the regional airports they were intended for (like ERI).

Another example is UA flying SFO-GEG-YYC twice a day, and DEN-GEG-YYC once a day (Western held both authorities), Northwest MSP-Duluth-Winnipeg on Mesaba, Comair CVG-Day-YYZ as DL Connection (They also operated CVG-YYZ at the time, but it was not authorized for code-share). If. I remember, wasn’t there also a JFK-BRL-Montreal?

raylee67 wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

When you said "restrictive agreements with Canada", I don't suppose you mean the current agreement since it's completely open-skies now.

So do you mean the old agreement back then with Canada forced US Air to serve Erie-Toronto (which would otherwise be unprofitable)? Interesting choice to force airline to serve Erie-Toronto if that was the case. What's the rationale?

Back then things were much more regulated. AL had its major hub in PIT with a smaller hub in PHL, but they didn’t have the authority to fly to YYZ nonstop from those hubs. Instead, they had YYZ authority to ERI, BUF, ROC, and later also through BOS and CLE. Generally, the PHL flights stopped in ERI on the way to YYZ, also taking advantage of the O&D to ERI. Later, PHL was dropped from ERI and PIT then ran one or two YYZ flights through ERI. After deregulation, most of the stops in ERI came to an end, but one did continue for several years. It was even bumped up to a 727-200 for a while. It was the only time that the 727-200 was ever scheduled to ERI, short runway and all.

Interesting. Thanks for the details! Especially for BUF-YYZ. Can't imagine a route like that would ever happen now.

AL/US flew BUF-YUL for years as well.

YVR744CP wrote:

When did DL fly PIT-YYZ? I know EA flew it. I don't recall it on Delta.

[url]departedflights.com/PIT95p7.html[/url]

The April 2nd, 1995 OAG shows 4 daily PIT-YYZ flights on DL. (3 on 757 and 1 on 727).

There were also 7 daily ERI-PIT flights, 4 on mainline aircraft.

FlyingElvii wrote:

pgh234 wrote:

US had many mainline jets per day (DC-9s mostly) to PIT from ERI during the hub era as well. While US couldn't fly nonstop PIT-YYZ and had to go through ERI, DL was regularly running multiple 757s from PIT-YYZ each day because they had the authority at the time.

Different times back then. Similar to how current government policies have caused us to have all of these regional jets give 10x daily service to NYC to preserve slots instead of serve the regional airports they were intended for (like ERI).

Another example is UA flying SFO-GEG-YYC twice a day, and DEN-GEG-YYC once a day (Western held both authorities), Northwest MSP-Duluth-Winnipeg on Mesaba, Comair CVG-Day-YYZ as DL Connection (They also operated CVG-YYZ at the time, but it was not authorized for code-share). If. I remember, wasn’t there also a JFK-BRL-Montreal?

There was also the original Frontier's Denver-Minot-Regina-Saskatoon and Denver-Bismarck-Winnipeg routes which lasted all through the 1980s until they ceased operations in 1986.

I am sure Frontier would have much rather operated those routes nonstop rather than via Minot and Bismarck - but it's what they had authority for.

Just the ups and downs of SPI. My mom's office was at SPI from 1984 to about 1996. You could fly to Meigs, Midway And O'Hare from SPI. Also had flights to STL, Peoria, Decatur (just 30 minutes by car), CVG, Quad Cities and I think IND. It was a lot of Puddle Jumpers back then. Ozark would run a DC9 from STL and AA Would have a Fokker 100 from ORD. The real problem with SPI is location. By car you can be in Bloomington, Champaign or Peoria in 60 minutes and STL in 90 minutes.

raylee67 wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

When you said "restrictive agreements with Canada", I don't suppose you mean the current agreement since it's completely open-skies now.

So do you mean the old agreement back then with Canada forced US Air to serve Erie-Toronto (which would otherwise be unprofitable)? Interesting choice to force airline to serve Erie-Toronto if that was the case. What's the rationale?

Back then things were much more regulated. AL had its major hub in PIT with a smaller hub in PHL, but they didn’t have the authority to fly to YYZ nonstop from those hubs. Instead, they had YYZ authority to ERI, BUF, ROC, and later also through BOS and CLE. Generally, the PHL flights stopped in ERI on the way to YYZ, also taking advantage of the O&D to ERI. Later, PHL was dropped from ERI and PIT then ran one or two YYZ flights through ERI. After deregulation, most of the stops in ERI came to an end, but one did continue for several years. It was even bumped up to a 727-200 for a while. It was the only time that the 727-200 was ever scheduled to ERI, short runway and all.

Interesting. Thanks for the details! Especially for BUF-YYZ. Can't imagine a route like that would ever happen now.

If you think that AL flying DC9s on BUF-YYZ interesting then you'll love knowing that EA or DL flew L1011's twice daily on the run as well. They were tag flights on ATL-BUF. I don't think EA or DL had the authority to fly ATL-YYZ nonstop at the time.

Regarding the ERI-YYZ flights, the O&D demand is/was more than nothing. Still, a single 19-35 seater per day would have covered it. I've got to imaging that passengers don't even try to fly commercial between the two anymore. Connecting in CLT makes no sense for the route when it's basically about a 4 hour drive north and 4 1/2 southbound. The added time coming back is going through US Customs, which is always pretty backed up. Someone could also drive 2-hours to CLE and hop a nonstop, but timewise it's basically a wash.

Pi7472000 wrote:

Sad to see United dropping so many cities! Hopefully they are doing okay! I fly them all the time, but they are going to fewer places now.

Is it United's fault? It's SkyWest that can't staff more flights like so many other regional airlines.

joeljack wrote:

My expensive United tickets were with work to these small cities they have dropped. All leaving DSM and used to be day trips. With DSM-ORD being only 2x, 3x or 4x daily now, can't even do day trips anymore. I've found ways to conduct business without traveling because United's schedule and city drops just wasn't working anymore. If they brought back frequency and some of their dropped cities, I would reconsider because I do like to travel were I can.

Another friend used to do day trips DEN-OMA and a few other places. United hasn't brought back their 8am DEN-OMA or their 8pm OMA-DEN yet. He was a United 1K and switched his travel to Southwest that has a schedule that works for day trips DEN-OMA.

Why don't you fly yourself? If you could do day trips previously, how far did you - do you - need to go?

Pi7472000 wrote:

Sad to see United dropping so many cities! Hopefully they are doing okay! I fly them all the time, but they are going to fewer places now.

considering UA is taking on tons of mainline and flying them to places that haven't seen mainline before (and with full planes), I think they're doing just fine. let alone all their international growth. ERI and SPI are two cities they should serve, but this is the nature of the smaller markets at the moment unfortunately.

heck, DL doesn't even serve a lot of California big cities like SBA, SBP, BFL, etc where AA/UA are even running mainline in and out. there are gonna be more strengths and weaknesses going forward it seems. VPS and STS are two decent sized markets UA isn't in

LotsaRunway wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

What was the length before?

6500' of pavement with a 500' displaced threshold to the east. Usable, but more was needed for fuller loads, plus to meet the updated safety requirements and to not lose RJ capability.

The runway was slightly shorter as recently as 1979, at 6000ft with no extra pavement either end, according to the 1979 AOPA Airports USA.

This eventually did come back to bite in 1986 with the DC-9 overrun, although there were other contributing factors in that incident.

Great thread. Like others, I hate to see the service vanishing at these smaller airports.

wenders825 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Sad to see United dropping so many cities! Hopefully they are doing okay! I fly them all the time, but they are going to fewer places now.

considering UA is taking on tons of mainline and flying them to places that haven't seen mainline before (and with full planes), I think they're doing just fine. let alone all their international growth. ERI and SPI are two cities they should serve, but this is the nature of the smaller markets at the moment unfortunately.

heck, DL doesn't even serve a lot of California big cities like SBA, SBP, BFL, etc where AA/UA are even running mainline in and out. there are gonna be more strengths and weaknesses going forward it seems. VPS and STS are two decent sized markets UA isn't in

Skywest was running CRJ's to SFO from STS in 2018-2019, but I think that went away just before Covid?

raylee67 wrote:

Interesting. Thanks for the details! Especially for BUF-YYZ. Can't imagine a route like that would ever happen now.

Never say never. This may be exactly the kind of route that is resurrected by the eVTOL category.

pgh234 wrote:

YVR744CP wrote:

When did DL fly PIT-YYZ? I know EA flew it. I don't recall it on Delta.

[url]departedflights.com/PIT95p7.html[/url]

The April 2nd, 1995 OAG shows 4 daily PIT-YYZ flights on DL. (3 on 757 and 1 on 727).

There were also 7 daily ERI-PIT flights, 4 on mainline aircraft.

The US-Canada bilateral did not allow any airline to fly ATL-YYZ nonstop. EA, flew ATL-PIT-YYZ, and when EA shut down, DL outbid US for the route, so they could fly ATL-PIT-YYZ.

It says a lot about how dysfunctional the US-Canada bilateral was post-deregulation that US flights from their hub in PIT had to stop in ERI enroute to YYZ...because the nonstop PIT-YYZ authority was held by other airlines that needed to stop there enroute from ATL.

In the 1970s, Nordair flew PIT-YHM nonstop; I'm sure much of the traffic on the route was related to the steel industry in the YHM area.

FlyingElvii wrote:

wenders825 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Sad to see United dropping so many cities! Hopefully they are doing okay! I fly them all the time, but they are going to fewer places now.

considering UA is taking on tons of mainline and flying them to places that haven't seen mainline before (and with full planes), I think they're doing just fine. let alone all their international growth. ERI and SPI are two cities they should serve, but this is the nature of the smaller markets at the moment unfortunately.

heck, DL doesn't even serve a lot of California big cities like SBA, SBP, BFL, etc where AA/UA are even running mainline in and out. there are gonna be more strengths and weaknesses going forward it seems. VPS and STS are two decent sized markets UA isn't in

Skywest was running CRJ's to SFO from STS in 2018-2019, but I think that went away just before Covid?

UA Skywest had STS-SFO and STS to DEN until March 2020, STS-SFO returned in 2021 until fall 2022. STS-DEN never returned after 2020. Maybe it’s due to proximity to SFO but surprising no UA presence at STS who had over 600k pax in 2022. They serve smaller airports all over.

SFFAN wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

Skywest was running CRJ's to SFO from STS in 2018-2019, but I think that went away just before Covid?

UA Skywest had STS-SFO and STS to DEN until March 2020, STS-SFO returned in 2021 until fall 2022. STS-DEN never returned after 2020. Maybe it’s due to proximity to SFO but surprising no UA presence at STS who had over 600k pax in 2022. They serve smaller airports all over.

SFFAN is correct, United ended STS Specifically October 2022 along with FLG as well.

Both stations like SPI and ERI were UGE-United Ground Express Stations with United.

Being from further South, in Southern Illinois, SPI does shock me from a state capital point, but agreed, they have Amtrak and close drive to a medium hub-STL.

SPI has continuously been trying for grants too, I wonder if more of an effort for grants will continue or if this is AA's opportunity to increase SPI. SPI-DCA could be possible under AA, but I have no idea on how the loads and market is for that... plus of course, SLOTS!

My best to SPI and ERI, I am former UGE so always sad to hear of my former colleagues losing their jobs. It's a rough and tough industry to be in.

Alex

I have a DL timetable effective Sept 1 1991. Monroe (birthplace of Delta) had one non stop to Atlanta (MD-88) and two to DFW (one MD-88 and one 72S). There were multiple one stops to both hubs as well. Today AA flies three CR7's to DFW and DL schedules two CR2's to Atlanta. Monroe basically lost most of its service in the last 30 years in US air service rush to the bottom. In general small and medium size cities across the country once enjoyed pretty good air service during the regulated period. What was once reliable service on Convairs and DC-9's (with a Flight Attendant and lavatory) has been reduced to RJ's and in some cases EAS single engine Cessnas and Pilatus puddle jumpers. (Don't tank up on Starbucks before boarding!) Not quite the panacea that Dr Alfred Kahn promised.

cv5880 wrote:

I have a DL timetable effective Sept 1 1991. Monroe (birthplace of Delta) had one non stop to Atlanta (MD-88) and two to DFW (one MD-88 and one 72S). There were multiple one stops to both hubs as well. Today AA flies three CR7's to DFW and DL schedules two CR2's to Atlanta. Monroe basically lost most of its service in the last 30 years in US air service rush to the bottom. In general small and medium size cities across the country once enjoyed pretty good air service during the regulated period. What was once reliable service on Convairs and DC-9's (with a Flight Attendant and lavatory) has been reduced to RJ's and in some cases EAS single engine Cessnas and Pilatus puddle jumpers. (Don't tank up on Starbucks before boarding!) Not quite the panacea that Dr Alfred Kahn promised.

Lots of the communities the populations have shrunk due to industry moving out and no job growth in those markets. Monroe for example was Delta's headquarters from 1925 to 1941 when it moved to Atlanta. I hate seeing these smaller markets shrink or lose service. Deregulation, making money and the Southwest effect has drove it. From a business standpoint though it is nice to actually the the airlines for the most part profitable.

SFFAN wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

wenders825 wrote:

considering UA is taking on tons of mainline and flying them to places that haven't seen mainline before (and with full planes), I think they're doing just fine. let alone all their international growth. ERI and SPI are two cities they should serve, but this is the nature of the smaller markets at the moment unfortunately.

heck, DL doesn't even serve a lot of California big cities like SBA, SBP, BFL, etc where AA/UA are even running mainline in and out. there are gonna be more strengths and weaknesses going forward it seems. VPS and STS are two decent sized markets UA isn't in

Skywest was running CRJ's to SFO from STS in 2018-2019, but I think that went away just before Covid?

UA Skywest had STS-SFO and STS to DEN until March 2020, STS-SFO returned in 2021 until fall 2022. STS-DEN never returned after 2020. Maybe it’s due to proximity to SFO but surprising no UA presence at STS who had over 600k pax in 2022. They serve smaller airports all over.

Proximity to SFO is a huge factor as to why UA just couldn't make STS work (again). UA also had served STS years before AS discovered the Wine Country market, ultimately pulling out in 2001 and leaving the airport with no commercial air service until 2007. I suspect that much like other ill-fated UA Californian stations such as LGB (Long Beach), OAK (Oakland), OXR (Oxnard), PMD (Palmdale) and SCK (Stockton), Santa Rosa was ultimately just far too close to a major UA hub with extensive nonstop service on bigger, more comfortable and more reliable planes.

Sadly, DEN-STS never really had a chance to get going before the pandemic shut down both air travel and wine tastings. For those flying to STS via SFO, by the time you waited for the connecting flight and flew up to Santa Rosa you could have hopped in a car and driven up there in about the same time. Wine Country travelers typically want to have a rental car, and many of them like to combine the rustic winery experience with a visit to nearby SF anyways - including a drive across the Golden Gate Bridge, which links the area to the city. At STS, you had to check in in a trailer outside of the main terminal building - and then after going through a tiny security checkpoint wait for your flight in a tent. I understand the airport has a much-improved terminal on offer now, but UA passengers never got to use it. Seeing as how UA ended service right when the new terminal opened, maybe they just didn't want to pay the higher fees?