Australian Aviation Thread - April 2023

kriskim · Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:06 am

tullamarine wrote:
The AFR (paywall) had a major article on Jayne Hrdlicka over the weekend in the lead up to the IPO Whilst behind paywall, you may be able to access it free via AFR's Facebook page..

Has some interesting points such as COVID actually being opportune for VA as it meant it could go through the administration restructure whilst the aviation industry was basically shut down. Apparently pre-administration The Club feature was highly loss-making losing $600 per visitor with the slightly pared down Beyond product now more tightly structured. For those looking for a restart of long haul WB operations, the article will be a disappointment.

Most of the article tracks her career from Bain to Jetstar to A2 then VA as well as covering her role at Tennis Australia. A good read if you can access it.

Yea no more wide body long haul at VA whilst Jayne is in charge, I think we might see some more 737MAX flying to more Asian destinations though. HND is just the start, there’s plenty of destinations within 8 hours from the East Coast.

Bluebird191 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:18 am

If CNS-HND is successful for VA, could we potentially see more Max routes into Asia from CNS? Could be opportune to utilise CNS for some inbound tourism while offering connections to the major centres of BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and PER.

SCFlyer · Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:48 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
If CNS-HND is successful for VA, could we potentially see more Max routes into Asia from CNS? Could be opportune to utilise CNS for some inbound tourism while offering connections to the major centres of BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and PER.

Potentially CNS to other Japan ports (in partnership with NH) and the tourism bodies/jurisdictions on both ends of the routes, but I can't see other Asian ports due to either low yields and/or no suitable partners.

TPE in partnership with BR is a possibility, although unlikely.

qf2220 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:04 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
If CNS-HND is successful for VA, could we potentially see more Max routes into Asia from CNS? Could be opportune to utilise CNS for some inbound tourism while offering connections to the major centres of BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and PER.

If that was the plan, I would have thought DRW might make a better placed port for such flights (though JQ has been down that path and it didnt happen either). Much more of SE Asia is accessible from there with a MAX (SIN, HKG, SGN BKK etc). CNS looks to be minimising extra distance to HND to maintain somewhat competitive flight times with QF.

qf2220 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:05 am

Speaking of VAs MAX's how are they going for delivery?

Fuling · Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:39 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
If CNS-HND is successful for VA, could we potentially see more Max routes into Asia from CNS? Could be opportune to utilise CNS for some inbound tourism while offering connections to the major centres of BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and PER.

VA won't get many inbound travellers the way it's going. Still unable to book this route directly with VA originating in Tokyo. Have to use NH's website and fares are awful.

qf789 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:52 am

qf2220 wrote:
Speaking of VAs MAX's how are they going for delivery?

No where fast. In the last photo update from RNT about a week ago most of the ones rolled out were in LN 8580's, VA in LN8604, there have been a couple come out above LN8604 but both of those frames are for Ryanair. I am only speculating here but I would say LN8604 isnt that far away from rolling out.

VA was suppose to get the first delivery in April, that will likely be next month now. I did read an article last week (cant remember where) that mentioned that VA will only have 1 737MAX on hand when HND launches. They are suppose to have 3 by September and should have all 8 in the fleet by this time next year

Velocity7 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:13 am

qf789 wrote:
As mentioned in the following thread ex VA 77W VPD is being flown to the Netherlands for scrapping

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1480017&p=23741109#p23741109

Interesting. I thought there was chat on here that it was heading to QR (?) but with the resolution of the A350 issue with Airbus, some talk about whether or not they were now needed?
Was VPD always heading for scapping in the Netherlands? Curios - do we know (or speculate) what the issue was that forced the 2 x diverts to DRW on both the 14th and 17th Feb and then for it to then sit there for ~6 weeks?

Obzerva · Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:13 am

qf789 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Speaking of VAs MAX's how are they going for delivery?

No where fast. In the last photo update from RNT about a week ago most of the ones rolled out were in LN 8580's, VA in LN8604, there have been a couple come out above LN8604 but both of those frames are for Ryanair. I am only speculating here but I would say LN8604 isnt that far away from rolling out.

VA was suppose to get the first delivery in April, that will likely be next month now. I did read an article last week (cant remember where) that mentioned that VA will only have 1 737MAX on hand when HND launches. They are suppose to have 3 by September and should have all 8 in the fleet by this time next year

only having 1 MAX in the fleet at that stage sounds like a recipe for a disaster recovery wise if it goes tech

tristans · Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:21 am

Velocity7 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
As mentioned in the following thread ex VA 77W VPD is being flown to the Netherlands for scrapping

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1480017&p=23741109#p23741109

Interesting. I thought there was chat on here that it was heading to QR (?) but with the resolution of the A350 issue with Airbus, some talk about whether or not they were now needed?
Was VPD always heading for scapping in the Netherlands? Curios - do we know (or speculate) what the issue was that forced the 2 x diverts to DRW on both the 14th and 17th Feb and then for it to then sit there for ~6 weeks?

Not sure how true, but heard the first divert was due to an incorrect aircraft type being listed on some paperwork - second was oil leak that took some time to find.

smi0006 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:48 am

qf789 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Speaking of VAs MAX's how are they going for delivery?

No where fast. In the last photo update from RNT about a week ago most of the ones rolled out were in LN 8580's, VA in LN8604, there have been a couple come out above LN8604 but both of those frames are for Ryanair. I am only speculating here but I would say LN8604 isnt that far away from rolling out.

VA was suppose to get the first delivery in April, that will likely be next month now. I did read an article last week (cant remember where) that mentioned that VA will only have 1 737MAX on hand when HND launches. They are suppose to have 3 by September and should have all 8 in the fleet by this time next year

Hopefully we some pics soon, be great for a livery refresh, or even just a special livery!! VA have done a great turn around they should be proud.

SCFlyer · Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:39 am

Velocity7 wrote:
[Was VPD always heading for scapping in the Netherlands? Curios - do we know (or speculate) what the issue was that forced the 2 x diverts to DRW on both the 14th and 17th Feb and then for it to then sit there for ~6 weeks?

Also speculating here, but as previously mentioned, VPD was one of the smaller cargo door 777s. ex-VPE (now A7-BOE) and ex-VPF (now A7-BOF) are also the other smaller cargo door 777s, and were the eldest of the ex-VA 77W fleet.

QR's recent acquisition of ex-VPH (one of the two with the larger cargo doors), along with the A350s being returned to service at QR suggests that BOE and BOF doesn't have a long-term future at QR either.

EK413 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:50 am

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has given the biggest hint yet that his successor will be a woman, during a speech to the airlines’ gala dinner.

Paywall: https://www-theaustralian-com-au.cdn.am ... 63f290?amp

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tullamarine · Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:02 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Velocity7 wrote:
[Was VPD always heading for scapping in the Netherlands? Curios - do we know (or speculate) what the issue was that forced the 2 x diverts to DRW on both the 14th and 17th Feb and then for it to then sit there for ~6 weeks?

Also speculating here, but as previously mentioned, VPD was one of the smaller cargo door 777s. ex-VPE (now A7-BOE) and ex-VPF (now A7-BOF) are also the other smaller cargo door 777s, and were the eldest of the ex-VA 77W fleet.

QR's recent acquisition of ex-VPH (one of the two with the larger cargo doors), along with the A350s being returned to service at QR suggests that BOE and BOF doesn't have a long-term future at QR either.

The eldest and first VA 777 delivered was VOZ at the beginning of Feb 2009 with the obviously unique registration. VPD was delivered at the end of Feb 2009

KevinR571 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:13 am

I have heard that Bonza had an aircraft go tech in ROK which caused disruptions and lengthy delays throughout their network today.
Spare a thought for AB927 TSV – ROK which was originally scheduled to depart at 09:20, repeatedly delayed to 17:00 and then finally cancelled.

IndianicWorld · Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:56 pm

KevinR571 wrote:
I have heard that Bonza had an aircraft go tech in ROK which caused disruptions and lengthy delays throughout their network today.
Spare a thought for AB927 TSV – ROK which was originally scheduled to depart at 09:20, repeatedly delayed to 17:00 and then finally cancelled.

Bound to happen. They need to work a fairly small fleet to be able to generate enough return. Their challenge is that with only a few frequencies per week on many routes, the passenger experience will be affected significantly in these situations.

The joy of aviation, with the trials and tribulations that it brings. It will be a big test for them as the early days is key to boosting confidence in their brand and building from there.

YSSYplanespoter · Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:58 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
KevinR571 wrote:
I have heard that Bonza had an aircraft go tech in ROK which caused disruptions and lengthy delays throughout their network today.
Spare a thought for AB927 TSV – ROK which was originally scheduled to depart at 09:20, repeatedly delayed to 17:00 and then finally cancelled.

Bound to happen. They need to work a fairly small fleet to be able to generate enough return. Their challenge is that with only a few frequencies per week on many routes, the passenger experience will be affected significantly in these situations.

The joy of aviation, with the trials and tribulations that it brings. It will be a big test for them as the early days is key to boosting confidence in their brand and building from there.

The real question is how did they handle the delay? Were passengers kept well informed? Given vouchers?

smi0006 · Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:03 am

YSSYplanespoter wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
KevinR571 wrote:
I have heard that Bonza had an aircraft go tech in ROK which caused disruptions and lengthy delays throughout their network today.
Spare a thought for AB927 TSV – ROK which was originally scheduled to depart at 09:20, repeatedly delayed to 17:00 and then finally cancelled.

Bound to happen. They need to work a fairly small fleet to be able to generate enough return. Their challenge is that with only a few frequencies per week on many routes, the passenger experience will be affected significantly in these situations.

The joy of aviation, with the trials and tribulations that it brings. It will be a big test for them as the early days is key to boosting confidence in their brand and building from there.

The real question is how did they handle the delay? Were passengers kept well informed? Given vouchers?

I think given their frequencies as above - when will they actually fly. Can’t see their recovery being any better than JQ - suspect If you don’t fly on the day, you’ll be offered the next flight 2-3 days later if space or a refund….

smi0006 · Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:04 am

Just reading the issues with the P&W engines, do we know which engines QF have selected on their 321s? I assume same as JQ?

melpax · Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:22 am

qf2220 wrote:
Bluebird191 wrote:
If CNS-HND is successful for VA, could we potentially see more Max routes into Asia from CNS? Could be opportune to utilise CNS for some inbound tourism while offering connections to the major centres of BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and PER.

If that was the plan, I would have thought DRW might make a better placed port for such flights (though JQ has been down that path and it didnt happen either). Much more of SE Asia is accessible from there with a MAX (SIN, HKG, SGN BKK etc). CNS looks to be minimising extra distance to HND to maintain somewhat competitive flight times with QF.

If things go well enough for them & capacity allows, maybe KIX & CTS during the Northern Winter for the Ski traffic?

jrfspa320 · Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:27 am

smi0006 wrote:
Just reading the issues with the P&W engines, do we know which engines QF have selected on their 321s? I assume same as JQ?

Surprisingly no, QF went with P&W for the A220 and A321, whereas JQ have CFMs

mh124 · Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:16 pm

Fuling wrote:
Bluebird191 wrote:
If CNS-HND is successful for VA, could we potentially see more Max routes into Asia from CNS? Could be opportune to utilise CNS for some inbound tourism while offering connections to the major centres of BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and PER.

VA won't get many inbound travellers the way it's going. Still unable to book this route directly with VA originating in Tokyo. Have to use NH's website and fares are awful.

Does anyone else think this is very problematic given that QLD taxpayers are monetarily supporting this route? Shouldn't QLD have insisted that this is sorted prior to the route commencing?
It does seem that some of these state government incentives end up subsidizing the carrier for outbound traffic rather than the intended inbound tourists.

ClassicLover · Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:36 pm

jrfspa320 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Just reading the issues with the P&W engines, do we know which engines QF have selected on their 321s? I assume same as JQ?

Surprisingly no, QF went with P&W for the A220 and A321, whereas JQ have CFMs

Maybe not too surprising, economies of scale if you have a lot more of the same engine type. Having the A220s as an outlier would probably have increased overall costs in some way, so having the GTF on the A321 makes some sense.

getluv · Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:51 pm

melpax wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Bluebird191 wrote:
If CNS-HND is successful for VA, could we potentially see more Max routes into Asia from CNS? Could be opportune to utilise CNS for some inbound tourism while offering connections to the major centres of BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and PER.

If that was the plan, I would have thought DRW might make a better placed port for such flights (though JQ has been down that path and it didnt happen either). Much more of SE Asia is accessible from there with a MAX (SIN, HKG, SGN BKK etc). CNS looks to be minimising extra distance to HND to maintain somewhat competitive flight times with QF.

If things go well enough for them & capacity allows, maybe KIX & CTS during the Northern Winter for the Ski traffic?

Lol. No way VA under Jayne or controlled by Bain will ever try go out on a limb to try those routes.

VA are only doing CNS-HND begrudgingly so QF doesn’t have the other HND slot to themselves and because QLD has a financial interest in VA other than the incentive scheme to essentially bankroll that route.

freshwater · Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:19 pm

qf2220 wrote:
Speaking of VAs MAX's how are they going for delivery?

I have heard from a VA staff member that -700s are being prepared to fly HND in the case of the MAX being delayed

tullamarine · Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:39 pm

freshwater wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Speaking of VAs MAX's how are they going for delivery?

I have heard from a VA staff member that -700s are being prepared to fly HND in the case of the MAX being delayed

Yes, I assume the 2 700's with J class (VBY and VBZ) would be the obvious fallback if Boeing miss their delivery timeline. Does anyone know if these 2 are already cleared for overwater operations or whether VA will need to upgrade the safety equipment which I assume VA would seek to oncharge to Boeing as compensation for late delivery?

gpasternak · Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:03 am

Air Vanuatu has confirmed that required parts for the airlines only Boeing 737 has been sourced via partners in Asia. As a result, the timeline to re-launch Air Vanuatu’s services to and from the key destinations of Australia and New Zealand is now anticipated for mid next week.

https://www.airvanuatu.com/travel-info/ ... n-advisory

SCFlyer · Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:48 am

melpax wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Bluebird191 wrote:
If CNS-HND is successful for VA, could we potentially see more Max routes into Asia from CNS? Could be opportune to utilise CNS for some inbound tourism while offering connections to the major centres of BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and PER.

If that was the plan, I would have thought DRW might make a better placed port for such flights (though JQ has been down that path and it didnt happen either). Much more of SE Asia is accessible from there with a MAX (SIN, HKG, SGN BKK etc). CNS looks to be minimising extra distance to HND to maintain somewhat competitive flight times with QF.

If things go well enough for them & capacity allows, maybe KIX & CTS during the Northern Winter for the Ski traffic?

Any (unlikely) VA expansion in JP outside of HND under Jayne and/or Bain will likely be tied to incentivises / assistance packages by the various jurisdictions by one or both ends of the route(s) as it is less likely (if at all) VA will go expand outside of HND on their own dime/CapEx.

As stated by others in this thread, the Japan routes by both VA and QF are funded by the State's aviation funds.

mh124 · Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:11 am

It would be fascinating to know what the state governments are paying for these routes to exist. I'm sure it would be impossible to find out, its probably all commercial in confidence. The airlines must have their government/corporate relations teams well staffed these days, extracting taxpayer funds now of vital importance.

Has this all changed recently? I thought previously the financial incentives were limited to free landing/airport charges (the airport would pay for this) coupled with maybe a state government funding of an overseas tourism campaign. But now it all seems much more overt and transactional.

tullamarine · Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:02 pm

I saw elsewhere on this site that Bolivian airline Boliviana de Aviacion (OB) will this year replace its 3 28 year old 763s with A332s previously operated by VA.

YSSYplanespoter · Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:07 pm

Good morning all. Looks like QF8 diverted to Auckland this morning. I've got a friend who is booked to go on today's QF63, but has been delayed 9 hours due to ZNH's misadventure. Would anyone know why they had to divert? Thanks

smi0006 · Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:12 pm

mh124 wrote:
It would be fascinating to know what the state governments are paying for these routes to exist. I'm sure it would be impossible to find out, its probably all commercial in confidence. The airlines must have their government/corporate relations teams well staffed these days, extracting taxpayer funds now of vital importance.

Has this all changed recently? I thought previously the financial incentives were limited to free landing/airport charges (the airport would pay for this) coupled with maybe a state government funding of an overseas tourism campaign. But now it all seems much more overt and transactional.

It’s always been the case, just not in this volume. Not that hard - there is a clear application process, and often supported by relevant airports and tourism agencies who want to develop a market. No money is paid yet - it’s all linked to an agreed number of services actually flown, and sometimes load factors. Most states being matched be tourism bodies and Airports - although not always in direct dollars, more discounts in landing charges, and marketing support. Lots of political spin on the actually incentives too….

SCFlyer · Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:43 am

There would usually be a load factor/yield cutoff at the end of the period that is commercial in confidence in those deals between the Airlines and the relevant jurisdictions.

If the airlines depart/cease the funded flights after a certain period, it usually means it is linked to certain multiple factors, ie the route yields didn't work out and/or the plane could be better utilised adding frequency and/or entering high yielding/travelled routes that have publicly known to generate a greater return.

EK413 · Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:52 am

YSSYplanespoter wrote:
Good morning all. Looks like QF8 diverted to Auckland this morning. I've got a friend who is booked to go on today's QF63, but has been delayed 9 hours due to ZNH's misadventure. Would anyone know why they had to divert? Thanks

From what we hearing Gas’n’go/ crew hours which resulted in crew change AKL.

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qf2220 · Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:17 am

EK413 wrote:
YSSYplanespoter wrote:
Good morning all. Looks like QF8 diverted to Auckland this morning. I've got a friend who is booked to go on today's QF63, but has been delayed 9 hours due to ZNH's misadventure. Would anyone know why they had to divert? Thanks

From what we hearing Gas’n’go/ crew hours which resulted in crew change AKL.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QF8 due to arrive about 1640.
QF63 now due to depart at 1745.

What's the bet same aircraft was going to operate both initially and they've had to keep it that way

EK413 · Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:55 am

qf2220 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
YSSYplanespoter wrote:
Good morning all. Looks like QF8 diverted to Auckland this morning. I've got a friend who is booked to go on today's QF63, but has been delayed 9 hours due to ZNH's misadventure. Would anyone know why they had to divert? Thanks

From what we hearing Gas’n’go/ crew hours which resulted in crew change AKL.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QF8 due to arrive about 1640.
QF63 now due to depart at 1745.

What's the bet same aircraft was going to operate both initially and they've had to keep it that way

Correct, QF8 DFW-SYD —-> QF63 SYD-JNB

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chipmunk1973 · Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:40 am

Does anyone know with QF's Project Winton: the NB refresh; if any simulators were part of the package?

Given the number of expected A321XLRs and A223 ordered to date, I'd surmise that simulators are a "Must Have".

Cheers,

kriskim · Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:49 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Does anyone know with QF's Project Winton: the NB refresh; if any simulators were part of the package?

Given the number of expected A321XLRs and A223 ordered to date, I'd surmise that simulators are a "Must Have".

Cheers,

Well a A220 sim is on its way to MEL, the first base for the A220 I believe.

EK413 · Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:54 am

kriskim wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Does anyone know with QF's Project Winton: the NB refresh; if any simulators were part of the package?

Given the number of expected A321XLRs and A223 ordered to date, I'd surmise that simulators are a "Must Have".

Cheers,

Well a A220 sim is on its way to MEL, the first base for the A220 I believe.

CAE to provide simulator services and centre operations for Qantas Group and operators in the region

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... australia/

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qf2220 · Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:56 am

Somewhat interesting article in the Australian.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... 3336ddea6c

The authors are suggesting that Joyce and current management have let fleet average age get older (to 15.4 years) in order to boost short term performance and outlook. Doesnt mention the A330 replacement program that will be announced sometime in the next couple of years but analysts are saying that current share pricing does not seem to factor in major fleet replacement needs.

Interesting comments on international margins too - suspected to be around 12% at the moment and over 20% for DFW.

SInGAPORE_AIR · Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:36 am

qf2220 wrote:
The authors are suggesting that Joyce and current management have let fleet average age get older (to 15.4 years) in order to boost short term performance and outlook. Doesnt mention the A330 replacement program that will be announced sometime in the next couple of years but analysts are saying that current share pricing does not seem to factor in major fleet replacement needs.

This article is months behind a similar piece in the Australian Financial Review (https://www.afr.com/rear-window/qantas- ... 919-p5bjc1). UBS (the bank quoted in The Australian article) and The Australian itself are a bit late in noticing...

It is also confusing that A321XLRs are coming in to replace B738NGs which are mainly used on domestic Australia but yet the commentary and media releases point to these aircraft being flown to parts of Asia. So are these Airbus aircraft replacing the B738NGs or are they meant for international network growth ?

YSSYplanespoter · Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:03 am

EK413 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
From what we hearing Gas’n’go/ crew hours which resulted in crew change AKL.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QF8 due to arrive about 1640.
QF63 now due to depart at 1745.

What's the bet same aircraft was going to operate both initially and they've had to keep it that way

Correct, QF8 DFW-SYD —-> QF63 SYD-JNB

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea. He really wasn't happy with the delay :lol:

qf2220 · Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:13 am

YSSYplanespoter wrote:
EK413 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

QF8 due to arrive about 1640.
QF63 now due to depart at 1745.

What's the bet same aircraft was going to operate both initially and they've had to keep it that way

Correct, QF8 DFW-SYD —-> QF63 SYD-JNB

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea. He really wasn't happy with the delay

At least he didnt get bumped to this morning's 63! He is there now, whereas he'd be a bit southwest of Melbourne otherwise.

csturdiv · Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:15 am

I'm booked on a QF B712 flight next month and it's all economy class. How many B712s are configured this way? I've flown quite a few QF B712 flights and have not seen this config before.

SCFlyer · Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:18 am

csturdiv wrote:
I'm booked on a QF B712 flight next month and it's all economy class. How many B712s are configured this way? I've flown quite a few QF B712 flights and have not seen this config before.

According to Planespotters.net fleetlists, QFLink has 8x all-Y (Y125) 712s.

smi0006 · Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:13 am

SInGAPORE_AIR wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
The authors are suggesting that Joyce and current management have let fleet average age get older (to 15.4 years) in order to boost short term performance and outlook. Doesnt mention the A330 replacement program that will be announced sometime in the next couple of years but analysts are saying that current share pricing does not seem to factor in major fleet replacement needs.

This article is months behind a similar piece in the Australian Financial Review (https://www.afr.com/rear-window/qantas- ... 919-p5bjc1). UBS (the bank quoted in The Australian article) and The Australian itself are a bit late in noticing...

It is also confusing that A321XLRs are coming in to replace B738NGs which are mainly used on domestic Australia but yet the commentary and media releases point to these aircraft being flown to parts of Asia. So are these Airbus aircraft replacing the B738NGs or are they meant for international network growth ?

I can’t open the article - but isn’t this always the case for QF though due to aircraft depreciation in AU, do a fleet needs to be kept a lot longer? Then it’s a challenge to do a massive fleet replacement, and if you take a phased approach you run the risk of fleet complexity or missing out on new model efficiency? Sure I recall the same thing before the 767s were retired, and then 744? Always going to be a cycle at QF.

Do they look at average fleet age too? If they include the F100 surely that’s going to impact average age?

Be very interesting if the 321 actually fly into Asia much- ever, even with a long haul config. But then why got for XLR? I think we’ll understand more clearly when the 330 replacement is announced - hopefully at end of year results!

Gangurru · Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:17 am

csturdiv wrote:
I'm booked on a QF B712 flight next month and it's all economy class. How many B712s are configured this way? I've flown quite a few QF B712 flights and have not seen this config before.

QF has installed, removed and reinstalled J since they started 717 ops in 2001. For many years the all Y configuration was confined to the Perth, Cairns and Darwin 717 bases for FIFO and northern Australia routes. They must have shifted the all Y to southern and eastern parts now?

Although the fleet size was previously advised, as a FYI Qantas is kind enough to include registrations on their seat map PDFs.

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-exp ... 7-200.html

smi0006 · Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:28 am

Gangurru wrote:
csturdiv wrote:
I'm booked on a QF B712 flight next month and it's all economy class. How many B712s are configured this way? I've flown quite a few QF B712 flights and have not seen this config before.

QF has installed, removed and reinstalled J since they started 717 ops in 2001. For many years the all Y configuration was confined to the Perth, Cairns and Darwin 717 bases for FIFO and northern Australia routes. They must have shifted the all Y to southern and eastern parts now?

Although the fleet size was previously advised, as a FYI Qantas is kind enough to include registrations on their seat map PDFs.

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-exp ... boeing-717 200.html

Be interesting to see which of the 717s is removed from the fleet first. I wonder if these all Y will be first to go? Perhaps being replaced by the E190s now?

The more I think about it, after the recent announcements the more I see the E190 wetlease replacing most of the 717 (especially in the north) and then the 220 replace the lighter 738 flying. I wonder with the alliance agreement to increase flying we’ll start to see the e190s in HBA and CBR etc. I’m sure alliance is cheaper than QantasLink, and QantasLink is cheaper than QFMainline - this the reshuffling of capacity.

LoganTheBogan · Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:53 am

smi0006 wrote:
Gangurru wrote:
csturdiv wrote:
I'm booked on a QF B712 flight next month and it's all economy class. How many B712s are configured this way? I've flown quite a few QF B712 flights and have not seen this config before.

QF has installed, removed and reinstalled J since they started 717 ops in 2001. For many years the all Y configuration was confined to the Perth, Cairns and Darwin 717 bases for FIFO and northern Australia routes. They must have shifted the all Y to southern and eastern parts now?

Although the fleet size was previously advised, as a FYI Qantas is kind enough to include registrations on their seat map PDFs.

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-exp ... boeing-717 200.html

Be interesting to see which of the 717s is removed from the fleet first. I wonder if these all Y will be first to go? Perhaps being replaced by the E190s now?

The more I think about it, after the recent announcements the more I see the E190 wetlease replacing most of the 717 (especially in the north) and then the 220 replace the lighter 738 flying. I wonder with the alliance agreement to increase flying we’ll start to see the e190s in HBA and CBR etc. I’m sure alliance is cheaper than QantasLink, and QantasLink is cheaper than QFMainline - this the reshuffling of capacity.

YQV was the first to go. Stopped commercial flying a few weeks ago and will be heading to Victorville via 9 stops.

EK413 · Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:23 am

SYD been hammered tonight by storms with traffic hovering around in holding patterns as we speak.
NZ109 AKL-SYD
QF650 PER-SYD
EK414 DXB-SYD
QF64 JNB-SYD
just to name a few…

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