Corendon Dutch Airlines (CD) may lease an Airbus A350-900 for flights from Amsterdam to Curacao and Aruba. Corendon is currently still working with KLM on flights from Amsterdam to the Caribbean islands, but the reason is that KLM charges high prices for its flights to Curacao and Aruba. The Boeing 787 suits Corendon better, because they also have Boeing 737s in their fleet, I think. In itself it is logical that Corendon is now thinking of offering long-distance flights itself, but the question is whether there is a market for this.

It looks suspiciously like the situation of Martinair in the past, both Air Holland (later Holland Excel) and long distance flights. I can't really imagine that 3 companies in the Netherlands will carry out long-haul flights, TUI, Corendon and KLM. It proves once again that the Netherlands is too small for many Dutch airlines to carry out long-haul flights.

Why would there be a large Dutch charter airline that flies to European and distant holiday destinations, that is much better and more future-proof. Transavia and Martinair could have merged into a large charter and scheduled service company with 737, later Airbuses, all under KLM Group. A missed opportunity.

In the Netherlands you have places for 1 very large airline, which is KLM, Transavia for Europe, the Middle East and North Africa and TUI for holiday destinations in Europe and long-haul flights. Corendon is number 4, but still flies to European and North African destinations. It is quite possible, but for long-haul flights from the Netherlands there is quite a lot of interest, despite air passenger tax, there is great competition for the Netherlands with 3 companies.

Official message viahttps://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/2/airlines/corendon-wil-airbus-a350-huren-voor-vluchten-naar-curacao Reading in Dutch!

It is proably a wet lease, so no reason to prefer the 787.

My guess is that the route will fed by their in-house tour operation and support from the travel industry. Much like TUI is supported by their holiday division. Good to see Corendon try this.

TC957 wrote:

My guess is that the route will fed by their in-house tour operation and support from the travel industry. Much like TUI is supported by their holiday division. Good to see Corendon try this.

Yes, it is still unknown how many Airbus A350 Corendon needs. I'm really betting on 2 Airbuses A350-900s. And it is also still unknown how long they will lease Airbuses.

This is certainly the first widebody aircraft for Corendon Dutch Airlines in its existence. It is still speculation, but this is one of the biggest plans that Corendon Dutch Airlines has in store. It is also possible that Corendon Dutch Airlines will also add more distant destinations to its route network where the Airbus A350-900 can also be deployed. So Corendon Dutch Airlines also becomes a formidable competitor of TUI and KLM.

Well according to the article itself, it stated that Corendon is seeking increased airlift to accommodate the demand for its hotels on the island. So they probably needed the extra capacity A350 could provide them with. Maybe 10-abreast A350 with 400+ seats?

ewt340 wrote:

Well according to the article itself, it stated that Corendon is seeking increased airlift to accommodate the demand for its hotels on the island. So they probably needed the extra capacity A350 could provide them with. Maybe 10-abreast A350 with 400+ seats?

Seems logical to me, more than 400 seats in an Airbus A350-900 from Corendon Dutch Airlines or perhaps Economy Premium, Economy Comfort and Economy Class (just like with TUI in the 787). If it doesn't work out, an Airbus A330-900 would be a nice alternative to Corendon Dutch Airlines, which is also suitable for long-haul flights. So Corendon Dutch Airlines has plenty of choice what they think is best to carry out flights to Curacao and Aruba. Or maybe also to distant destinations that Corendon offers.

ewt340 wrote:

Well according to the article itself, it stated that Corendon is seeking increased airlift to accommodate the demand for its hotels on the island. So they probably needed the extra capacity A350 could provide them with. Maybe 10-abreast A350 with 400+ seats?

Question is, are these high capacity A359 available? The only A350s I can see are the 2 which have been returned by SAS. These have 300 seats, with relatively high number Business and Premium Economy seats, not really a market Corendon is targeting. But I can't see any alternative, unless I missed some ex Hainan/HK Airlines A350s.

frigatebird wrote:

ewt340 wrote:

Well according to the article itself, it stated that Corendon is seeking increased airlift to accommodate the demand for its hotels on the island. So they probably needed the extra capacity A350 could provide them with. Maybe 10-abreast A350 with 400+ seats?

Question is, are these high capacity A359 available? The only A350s I can see are the 2 which have been returned by SAS. These have 300 seats, with relatively high number Business and Premium Economy seats, not really a market Corendon is targeting. But I can't see any alternative, unless I missed some ex Hainan/HK Airlines A350s.

It would be a wetlease so not direct form a leasing company.

frigatebird wrote:

ewt340 wrote:

Well according to the article itself, it stated that Corendon is seeking increased airlift to accommodate the demand for its hotels on the island. So they probably needed the extra capacity A350 could provide them with. Maybe 10-abreast A350 with 400+ seats?

Question is, are these high capacity A359 available? The only A350s I can see are the 2 which have been returned by SAS. These have 300 seats, with relatively high number Business and Premium Economy seats, not really a market Corendon is targeting. But I can't see any alternative, unless I missed some ex Hainan/HK Airlines A350s.

Wet lease either from Iberojet or World2fly. Both have 432Y A359’s

The article only mentions Curacao. Where does it say Aruba? Just curious.

But it does make sense for Curacao more than Aruba since the former is the bigger market out of AMS. Reason why KLM returned to pre-pandemic A330 operations (at least for summer season) for AUA and BON while CUR remained 77W.

If it's gonna be a high density economy A350 in accordance with Corendon's model then I can only think of World2fly and Iberojet.

Also, WHAT? SLM wants to try CUR-AMS too? I want to believe it'll do good but well... it's SLM

frigatebird wrote:

ewt340 wrote:

Well according to the article itself, it stated that Corendon is seeking increased airlift to accommodate the demand for its hotels on the island. So they probably needed the extra capacity A350 could provide them with. Maybe 10-abreast A350 with 400+ seats?

Question is, are these high capacity A359 available? The only A350s I can see are the 2 which have been returned by SAS. These have 300 seats, with relatively high number Business and Premium Economy seats, not really a market Corendon is targeting. But I can't see any alternative, unless I missed some ex Hainan/HK Airlines A350s.

I just found out through airbus LOPAS they provided on their websites. 9-abreast all economy class configuration with 31" pitch seat could accommodate 430-440 seat in A350-900 cabin.

Berven1 wrote:

Why would there be a large Dutch charter airline that flies to European and distant holiday destinations, that is much better and more future-proof. Transavia and Martinair could have merged into alarge charter and scheduled service company with 737, later Airbuses, all under KLM Group. A missed opportunity.

It's not a lost opportunity. Corendon is following TUI and want everything inhouse. They want to control the product and ensure that they've enough capacity (which KLM cannot and will not provide).

Berven1 wrote:

Corendon Dutch Airlines also becomes a formidable competitor of TUI and KLM.

KLM is not a real competitor. KLM couldn't care less in loosing this low yield business other than it fills an airraft. They can now deploy capacity elsewhere.. Moreover, some passengers will prefer to take the KLM flight, even if it costs more.

Berven1 wrote:

Corendon Dutch Airlines (CD) may lease an Airbus A350-900 for flights from Amsterdam to Curacao and Aruba. Corendon is currently still working with KLM on flights from Amsterdam to the Caribbean islands, but the reason is that KLM charges high prices for its flights to Curacao and Aruba

Corendon got a very good deal, but KLM isn't going to wate its seats to low yield traffic if it doesn't need to. Anyway, I hope Corendon will have a back-up aircraft as we al know from Surinam what can happen if your single long haul plane breaks down.

Jetcruiser wrote:

But it does make sense for Curacao more than Aruba since the former is the bigger market out of AMS.

On the other hand, it doesn't say they'll be flying out of AMS. It would be the most logical assumption, but Corendon is known to offer alternative options. They already moved a good deal of their capacity abroad to Belgium and Germany, it's not impossible for them to start BRU-CUR or DUS-CUR. The high Dutch aviation tax drives people across the border to fly cheaper from there, Corendon recognizes that by offering flights from FMO, NRN, DUS and BRU.

In the past TUI (then still ArkeFly) tried to offer EIN-CUR and EIN-AUA flights, but those never materialized. Not due to lack of demand but because EIN does not have the infrastructure for 100% checks which are required for flights out of high risk areas such as the Caribbean. BRU and DUS do have those facilities and can thus host flights to CUR. KF flew BRU-CUR in the past and I think AB has flown DUS-CUR at some point in history, not entirely sure. So those routes aren't the craziest ideas.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

On the other hand, it doesn't say they'll be flying out of AMS.

The article literally says it's "between Schiphol and Curacao." Though I do get what you're saying about the other options.

I don't know how Air Belgium did with the BRU-CUR route since they faced financial woes and had to cancel their flights to the island. I'm guessing not so good but can't say for sure.

The Air Berlin DUS-CUR route from what I understand was doing pretty well despite it only being a 1x weekly flight. It lasted for years. I have seen people talking about how they missed the route.

Interesting, I have no insight as to how many passengers they bring to CUR weekly (they do have their large brand new hotel there), but I'd expect them to use an A330 rather than an A350. Much cheaper to lease and much more available on an ACMI basis, I'd imagine.

Given their financial situation right now, I find it pretty doubtful that they’d venture into long haul.

DUSZRH wrote:

Given their financial situation right now, I find it pretty doubtful that they’d venture into long haul.

Is there any indication that they're not doing well? They're taking delivery of MAX-9s too, right?

DUSZRH wrote:

Given their financial situation right now, I find it pretty doubtful that they’d venture into long haul.

There are three Corendon carriers: CAI, CND and CXI

I think he is referring to CXI: https://aviation.direct/en/around-six-m ... s-corendon

CND is the one primarily interested in potentially operating the A350 and CXI has nothing to do with it

Confirmed, CND is gonna operate an all-economy class A359 in conjunction with carrier World2Fly for the route AMS - CUR as per November 2023

https://www.corendon.com/airbus

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Confirmed, CND is gonna operate an all-economy class A359 in conjunction with carrier World2Fly for the route AMS - CUR as per November 2023

https://www.corendon.com/airbus

The webpage was taken offline... Hopefully they have more luck this year, their A330 adventure last year was a disaster:

debonair wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Confirmed, CND is gonna operate an all-economy class A359 in conjunction with carrier World2Fly for the route AMS - CUR as per November 2023

https://www.corendon.com/airbus

The webpage was taken offline... Hopefully they have more luck this year, their A330 adventure last year was a disaster:

Must have been taken offline since the press conference hasn't happened yet, scheduled for 17:00 AST I believe (will take place in Curaçao).
The press has already caught on, however: https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... ar-curacao (article in Dutch).



Seems about what you'd expect, though definitely an exciting time for a previously narrow-body only airline. As stated before, CXI which had the A330 is separate from CND and this will be IMO a better utilisation of a widebody for the airline, as the Netherlands already has a lot of inherent tourism/VFR with Curaçao.

This also echoes the reason CND was started in the first place, as the tour operator wasn't getting enough seats from KLM, which led to them leasing their first aircraft. It seems the same is happening again, now on the long-haul. We may soon be getting a new Martinair on our hands, down to the red livery and all. I wish them the best of luck.

Its interesting that they picked November to start with. They are gonna be banking on the typical Dutch consumer who want to hibernate in the Carribbean during fall/winter. If they play it right, making their service decent and reliable, it could become a serious rival standing between TFL and KL for S24

They'll have at least the USP of having the widest economy seat on the route. Pitch may be a bit of an issue though...

Blankbarcode wrote:

We may soon be getting a new Martinair on our hands, down to the red livery and all. I wish them the best of luck.

Martinair wasn't owned by a touroperator when it flew long haul. This is more like a second TUI.

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Its interesting that they picked November to start with. They are gonna be banking on the typical Dutch consumer who want to hibernate in the Carribbean during fall/winter. If they play it right, making their service decent and reliable, it could become a serious rival standing between TFL and KL for S24

It's logical they start in November. You don't go to CUR in the Summer, you go in the Dutch Winter. I doubt KLM would mind losing this low yield business. They may reduce frequency a bit, but it's not that they loose their most important customers. Means they can utilize the plane and slots for a more profitable destination.

76er wrote:

They'll have at least the USP of having the widest economy seat on the route. Pitch may be a bit of an issue though...

And no premium economy and/or business class..... Something many would consider for such a flight (at least, those who can afford).

I’m not talking about premium-eco/business here, but just the standard economy seat, which obviously is the choice of the the far majority of customers. It’s actually quite funny that in this particular case the typical ‘charter’ passenger is better off than people who are flying on the legacy airline. Unless you’re lucky and get the 330. Now schedule reliablity with just 2 aircraft is of course a whole different matter..

76er wrote:

Now schedule reliablity with just 2 aircraft is of course a whole different matter..

I thought they would hire only 1 A350. Seems like they follow the Surinam by flying 5 weekly and thus has some operational slack though the schedule is very tight. Will be interesting to see what their back-up plan is unless they want to pay a lot of compensation (though 2/3 of the seats are sold as package holiday and thus may not eleigible for EU261).

Schedule:
AMS dep 11:55 CUR arr 17:15 Tue Wed Fri Sat Sun
CUR dep 19:20 AMS arr 09:15 Tue Wed Fri Sat Sun

A sixth frequency will be added between June - August 2024.

LJ wrote:

76er wrote:

Will be interesting to see what their back-up plan is unless they want to pay a lot of compensation (though 2/3 of the seats are sold as package holiday and thus may not eleigible for EU261).

And yes, most passengers will be holidaymakers, filling the 399 rooms of their own "Mangrove Beach Corendon Curacao All-Inclusive Resort". Btw., also package holidays are fully covered under EU261. And yes, don't worry, CORENDON does have plenty of hotels araound AMS airport to accomodate their stranded passengers, like the "Corendon Plaza Amsterdam Schiphol Airport Hotel" or the "Corendon Urban Amsterdam Schiphol Airport Hotel".

LJ wrote:

76er wrote:

Now schedule reliablity with just 2 aircraft is of course a whole different matter..

I thought they would hire only 1 A350. Seems like they follow the Surinam by flying 5 weekly and thus has some operational slack though the schedule is very tight. Will be interesting to see what their back-up plan is unless they want to pay a lot of compensation (though 2/3 of the seats are sold as package holiday and thus may not eleigible for EU261).

Schedule:
AMS dep 11:55 CUR arr 17:15 Tue Wed Fri Sat Sun
CUR dep 19:20 AMS arr 09:15 Tue Wed Fri Sat Sun

A sixth frequency will be added between June - August 2024.

Nope, its just one A359 being wetleased to CND.

LJ wrote:

76er wrote:

Now schedule reliablity with just 2 aircraft is of course a whole different matter..

I thought they would hire only 1 A350. Seems like they follow the Surinam by flying 5 weekly and thus has some operational slack though the schedule is very tight. Will be interesting to see what their back-up plan is unless they want to pay a lot of compensation (though 2/3 of the seats are sold as package holiday and thus may not eleigible for EU261).

Schedule:
AMS dep 11:55 CUR arr 17:15 Tue Wed Fri Sat Sun
CUR dep 19:20 AMS arr 09:15 Tue Wed Fri Sat Sun

A sixth frequency will be added between June - August 2024.

According to the press conference (Dutch only, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMDAzFO1Go&t=2s), they will have an A330 on standby from W2F as well, 388 seats. I'm assuming CS-WFP. They will be flying 5x weekly to start, then upgauge to 6x weekly if operations go well. They have a contract for 2 years.

As for compensation in the event of delays and cancellations, I can imagine they made some sort of agreement that both parties would have some skin in this game to ensure W2F keeps their performance on track.

Blankbarcode wrote:

According to the press conference (Dutch only, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMDAzFO1Go&t=2s), they will have an A330 on standby from W2F as well, 388 seats. I'm assuming CS-WFP. They will be flying 5x weekly to start, then upgauge to 6x weekly if operations go well. They have a contract for 2 years.

As for compensation in the event of delays and cancellations, I can imagine they made some sort of agreement that both parties would have some skin in this game to ensure W2F keeps their performance on track.

That puzzles me. They'll have 3 A350-900s by November 2023, one of which will be leased to Corendon. The A330 is flying for their Portugese subsidiary during the Summer season (at least twice weekly). This means that either World2Fly will unwind its Portuguese subsidiary and stop flying with the A330 at all as of S24, or it will need to order/lease another A350 as I doubt that World2Fly will reduce its flying out of MAD. Moreover, I'll doubt that they'll give the spare A330 to Corendon should they need it themselves. Surely hope that Corendon has a good contract with World2Fly......

debonair wrote:

also package holidays are fully covered under EU261. And yes, don't worry,

That depends on whether the fares under which they travel are available to the public. There is a nasty caveat they can use as EU261 is not applicable to fares which are not available to the general public. If they create a separate booking class for the charter business, and don't sell that booking class to the general public, one can argue that the fare is not available to the general public and thus EU261 would not apply. This doesn't mean though that other regulations apply (there are special EU regulations around package holidays), but EU261 is much better (from a customer point of view).

LJ wrote:

I thought they would hire only 1 A350.

Yes, sorry. My bad.