Just goes to show the scale of the impact of the wildfires, that they are impacting flights in NYC.

So far the partial ground stop only goes through 2pm EST, but could be extended.

Not sure if I have seen wildfire related delays on the east coast in recent times, but could be wrong.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/07/flights ... fires.html

https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/smok ... -francisco

LGA is under a ground stop right now apparently. I’m in NJ and the air is becoming suffocating even indoors.

Don’t think so. This is definitely the worst air quality I’ve experienced here in NJ, I’ve never have had to put on a mask indoors before.

EWR also now covered in a ground stop

https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/166 ... 99182?s=20

There is a related topic that may require a merge. As it is, LGA is only able to use Runway 4 because JFK is using the 31s (winds are ironically almost straight down Runway 31, but for LGA to be 31 on both departures and arrivals would cause additional problems for EWR, which is using the 4s, regarding departure separation. It is awful here, with the sky being basically orange and hazy.

The smoke got noticeably worse in the past few hours. I'm in Brooklyn and when you step outside you can smell it clearly now. The orange color is like something out of Blade Runner 2049.

mke717spotter wrote:

The smoke got noticeably worse in the past few hours. I'm in Brooklyn and when you step outside you can smell it clearly now. The orange color is like something out of Blade Runner 2049.

For me it looks like when Breaking Bad puts a yellow filter over a scene to indicate that it is in Mexico

Can someone explain why the admittedly horrible air quality necessitates delays? I thought volcanoes were an issue because of potential engine damage. Is that really an issue with haze?

It's a significant visibility restrictor, just like fog/mist & regular haze. You fall below VFR/MVFR for visibility, you start knocking down a lot of dominos. It doesn't help that there is little vertical visibility extent besides several thousand feet of horizontal restriction.

Air quality has nothing to do with the aviation impacts.

tax1k wrote:

Can someone explain why the admittedly horrible air quality necessitates delays? I thought volcanoes were an issue because of potential engine damage. Is that really an issue with haze?

Because it's LGA. No matter how nice they make it look with fancy new renovations it still has all its old demons and is committed to making travel a miserable experience.
Three drops of rain in an adjacent borough - cancel all the flights
Someone farts and it gets confused for a wind gust - cancel all the flights
The color of the sky changes slightly - cancel all the flights

reednavy wrote:

It's a significant visibility restrictor, just like fog/mist & regular haze. You fall below VFR/MVFR for visibility, you start knocking down a lot of dominos. It doesn't help that there is little vertical visibility extent besides several thousand feet of horizontal restriction.

Air quality has nothing to do with the aviation impacts.

Thanks. I assumed (with no basis or experience) that a ground stop had to be for something beyond “just” visibility.

KLGA has been reporting 1-1/4 HZ FU and R04 RVR of 6000 for the last 4 hours. FU in METAR is Fume, French smoke

tax1k wrote:

reednavy wrote:

It's a significant visibility restrictor, just like fog/mist & regular haze. You fall below VFR/MVFR for visibility, you start knocking down a lot of dominos. It doesn't help that there is little vertical visibility extent besides several thousand feet of horizontal restriction.

Air quality has nothing to do with the aviation impacts.

Thanks. I assumed (with no basis or experience) that a ground stop had to be for something beyond “just” visibility.

Curious to understand how visibility levels compare with Australian bush fires a few years back, before the pandemic - I worked at SYD at the time and the smell in the terminal made our eyes water and caught on our throats. Purely from photos - the air quality looked worse. I couldn’t see across the runway between international and domestic - but flights carried on.

Something Australia, and the world aviation will need to consider closely - this year should be okay - but next year will be a bad fire season. We can’t stop flights all summer or for weeks at a time. Lots of dry tinder around - here the bush is designed to burn, and if you keep stopping it, the litter just builds up…..

MaRoFu wrote:

Don’t think so. This is definitely the worst air quality I’ve experienced here in NJ, I’ve never have had to put on a mask indoors before.

Welcome to what western North America has been living with for the last ten years!

Interesting that in Canada YOW and YYZ don't seem to be impacted despite the smoke.

NYC is impacted because of the airspace driving which runways at 4 airports.

multimark wrote:

MaRoFu wrote:

Don’t think so. This is definitely the worst air quality I’ve experienced here in NJ, I’ve never have had to put on a mask indoors before.

Welcome to what western North America has been living with for the last ten years!

Interesting that in Canada YOW and YYZ don't seem to be impacted despite the smoke.

At this time they're talking air quality indices and the kinds of gunk (PM2.5 here in DTW) that are driving them.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 297183007/

I am not surprised that the smoke haze is disrupting movements of aircraft, especially in the NYC Metro area with all the traffic, other factors. I suspect airports in some other cities in the NE USA are also affected. It looks like the Apocalypse in Northern NJ 13 miles north of EWR where I live with a strange orange glow. I can't ever remember seeing anything like it in my 68 years living in Northern NJ except from a nearby forest fire.

It seems several airports are reporting delays and cancellations - "Air quality alert: Check flight delays and cancellations in tri-state area airports" https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/a ... s/4402548/

Is this the first time wildfire smoke has done this on the EC?

Driving around northeast Ohio this evening, the sky reminded me of what the air here looked like in the mid-60's. Orange and very hazy. Cleveland used to have this all the time from it's now shuttered steel coke plants, blast furnaces, foundries and really polluting vehicles.

Did smog ever cause flight cancellations back in the day?

ltbewr wrote:

I am not surprised that the smoke haze is disrupting movements of aircraft, especially in the NYC Metro area with all the traffic, other factors. I suspect airports in some other cities in the NE USA are also affected. It looks like the Apocalypse in Northern NJ 13 miles north of EWR where I live with a strange orange glow. I can't ever remember seeing anything like it in my 68 years living in Northern NJ except from a nearby forest fire.

PHL briefly saw traffic restricted
https://twitter.com/FAANews/status/1666 ... 03332?s=20

multimark wrote:

MaRoFu wrote:

Don’t think so. This is definitely the worst air quality I’ve experienced here in NJ, I’ve never have had to put on a mask indoors before.

Welcome to what western North America has been living with for the last ten years!

I was just gonna say. This has been the west all summer long for the last decade. East gets it for a week and it's breaking news.

Acey wrote:

multimark wrote:

MaRoFu wrote:

Don’t think so. This is definitely the worst air quality I’ve experienced here in NJ, I’ve never have had to put on a mask indoors before.

Welcome to what western North America has been living with for the last ten years!

I was just gonna say. This has been the west all summer long for the last decade. East gets it for a week and it's breaking news.

Well, if it never happened in the NYC area before and considering how severe it was today, I'd say it pretty much is breaking news...

Not to go off thread but are they moving air tankers from the western US and Canada to help?

Even northern Michigan is on fire.

pbody wrote:

tax1k wrote:

Can someone explain why the admittedly horrible air quality necessitates delays? I thought volcanoes were an issue because of potential engine damage. Is that really an issue with haze?

Because it's LGA. No matter how nice they make it look with fancy new renovations it still has all its old demons and is committed to making travel a miserable experience.
Three drops of rain in an adjacent borough - cancel all the flights
Someone farts and it gets confused for a wind gust - cancel all the flights
The color of the sky changes slightly - cancel all the flights

I've been flying to LGA (as a pilot) for the past 10 months on a weekly basis. I have never had a canceled flight. Sure, a few delays here and there but even those were not "LGA" related. I think people like to bash on LGA.I find it a delightful place (No exaggeration)

Acey wrote:

multimark wrote:

MaRoFu wrote:

Don’t think so. This is definitely the worst air quality I’ve experienced here in NJ, I’ve never have had to put on a mask indoors before.

Welcome to what western North America has been living with for the last ten years!

I was just gonna say. This has been the west all summer long for the last decade. East gets it for a week and it's breaking news.

Pretty weird take, you could say a similar agrument about basically every weather event.

This is impacting roughly 1/3rd of the US population, on the completely opposite side of the country, that's basically never experienced it before....this is pretty significant news.

Just like parts of SoCal receiving snow this winter was big news, despite many in other parts of the US experiencing it frequently every year.

Vio wrote:

pbody wrote:

tax1k wrote:

Can someone explain why the admittedly horrible air quality necessitates delays? I thought volcanoes were an issue because of potential engine damage. Is that really an issue with haze?

Because it's LGA. No matter how nice they make it look with fancy new renovations it still has all its old demons and is committed to making travel a miserable experience.
Three drops of rain in an adjacent borough - cancel all the flights
Someone farts and it gets confused for a wind gust - cancel all the flights
The color of the sky changes slightly - cancel all the flights

I've been flying to LGA (as a pilot) for the past 10 months on a weekly basis. I have never had a canceled flight. Sure, a few delays here and there but even those were not "LGA" related. I think people like to bash on LGA.I find it a delightful place (No exaggeration)

You’ve been lucky, or things have changed. I flew there with Endeavor for years, and regularly sat 45+ minutes for departure. Going to LGA we’d have weekly at least a flight or two with a long wheels up time. I’m sure new terminals have helped once you’ve landed - it seemed like every other flight we landed and would sit 20-30 minutes waiting for our occupied gate to clear.

CRJ200flyer wrote:

Vio wrote:

pbody wrote:

Because it's LGA. No matter how nice they make it look with fancy new renovations it still has all its old demons and is committed to making travel a miserable experience.
Three drops of rain in an adjacent borough - cancel all the flights
Someone farts and it gets confused for a wind gust - cancel all the flights
The color of the sky changes slightly - cancel all the flights

I've been flying to LGA (as a pilot) for the past 10 months on a weekly basis. I have never had a canceled flight. Sure, a few delays here and there but even those were not "LGA" related. I think people like to bash on LGA.I find it a delightful place (No exaggeration)

You’ve been lucky, or things have changed. I flew there with Endeavor for years, and regularly sat 45+ minutes for departure. Going to LGA we’d have weekly at least a flight or two with a long wheels up time. I’m sure new terminals have helped once you’ve landed - it seemed like every other flight we landed and would sit 20-30 minutes waiting for our occupied gate to clear.

Maybe I have been lucky, and truth be told, I only started flying the E175 in September of last year. I haven't yet witnessed summer operations at LGA. I'm also senior enough to have X-mas holidays off, so I also avoided that. I think the most "delay" I had was about 15-20 minutes or so. We had 10+ airplanes ahead of us on 04. We'll see what this summer will bring. I've had way more dealys at YYZ waiting for a gate. Covid decimated our workforce and it's slowly getting back to normal. Every time I go to LGA we have the ramp crews there, ready for us. They're also amazing workers so huge shut out to them (if any of them are on this site). Excellent job.