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UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 12:08 am

Why is it that everytime i'm at LHR or i see a pic of T3, that UA/AA plane are always parked at the same gates? i know that UA/AA flights dont all arrive at the same time. While all the other airlines are using the other gates.


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This picture doesn't show it very well, but you'll notice it once you see where all aircraft are parked in that area of T3.

rdgs
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roguetrader
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 12:39 am

This is a great question. My tentative answer is: they have to park there so that the US carriers get the absolute worst possible position at Heathrow. I've been there and not even had a real gate on many trips.
The walk into the terminal seems like miles. Then, the walk to the HExpress is not only far, its confusing.

In the US, these gates are comparable to what would be given to the lowest rent paying carriers: the ones who want cheap and cheap only.

I still like Heathrow of course, but the treatment of American based carriers is obviously a little less than ideal.

I'm sure a more balanced report will say that these are simply the same gates that TWA and Pan Am have had since forever and that UA and AA had no choice but to inherit them.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Leezyjet
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 12:51 am

It's because of some kind of agreement that UA and AA have with the BAA. As the security requirements to enter 'fortress America' are higher than most other countries, the gates down at that end of T3 have extra security equipment in them, so it's logical to keep them all together in one area.

Also they had origionaly planned to have a system like they do at Shannon, in that you could clear immigration and customs before you left the UK, as those gates could potentially be isolated from the rest of the terminal by the walkway that is shown in the middle-left of the photo you posted, but this never happened as other carriers such as VS and BA wanted the same facilities for their passengers, but due to the operational restrictions that would be imposed by this, it never happened.

They do use other parking stands from time to time (not vey often tho), especially in the peak 0700-1100 periods in the morning, and they usually have to 'coach' a couple of their flights each day in order to enjoy this 'special' treatment.

Hope this helps.

Leezyjet.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 1:17 am

Hmmm...interesting rogue,leezyjet

While boarding a UA flight 2 years ago from T3, the plane was parked in that area of T3 with only AA and United planes in sight, nothing else. What are these extra "security measures" they have in that part of T3?

Rdgs
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Leezyjet
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 1:25 am

Arsenal,

Unless you work there, then there is no need for you to know that kind of information, just be satisfied with my origional answer.

Sorry, but I am not going to post sensitive security arrangements on a world wide website that can be viewed by just about anybody so hope you understand.

Guess you were pleased with Saturdays result....

Leezyjet.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 1:33 am

LOL! Leezyjet, i understand about the security concerns, no problem.

Very pleased with saturday's result!! Bring on wednesday i say! Big grin

Arsenal@LHR
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Leezyjet
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 1:42 am

I'm not an Arsenal supporter, but one of my mates is so I'll be behind you all the way, just for the satisfaction in seeing Man Utd not winning owt for once. LOL. Big grin

Leezyjet.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
roguetrader
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 1:47 am

THIS IS A CIVIL AVIATION FORUM, not a British soccer (so-called "football") forum.

I'm going to complain to a moderator about responses not appropriate to the thread title being posted here.

kind regards,

RogueTrader

Sorry, just kidding. British football rules the world. Just kidding again.
 
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 1:49 am

Rogue,

I cant resist bringing up football topics now and then, Arsenal are having an awesone season! Big grin

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Leezyjet
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 1:52 am

Rouge,

Chill out man......
Guess you'll be shopping Singapore_Air then.....lol Big grin

In response to your posting earlier, I heard that UA/AA actually pay MORE to use those facilites....don't know how true that is tho.

Leezyjet.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
roguetrader
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 2:06 am

Just so we're clear here, I don't care what anyone posts. I have never hit 'suggest deletion' or complained to a moderator. I do like to sometimes make fun of other people who do so, though. And, of course, I do like to make fun of all sports that America does not control.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Leezyjet
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 2:45 am

Rouge,


Totally getting away from the thread now, but I'm sure Arsenal won't mind.....

I always laugh when I hear about baseball's 'World Series'. How do you have a 'world series' when no other countries take part ??.

Also baseball was infact invented by the British (rounders) and you guys changed the rules of that, and we invented netball, which you changed the rules of to make Basketball, and I'm sure you changed the rules of rugby to make American Football...lol Big grin

I'm glad tho that you were unable to change the rules of football ((soccer) when you held the world cup, just to make it more appealing to Americans - why do you have to have X hundred points on a score board to make it exciting ??.

leezyjet.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
roguetrader
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 6:22 am

As far as the World Series is concerned, we do in fact invite one other country to participate: Canada. They have 2 teams that participate in Major League Baseball, and they do sometimes go to the World Series. So, whats the problem? Canada & the USA = world. Most Americans consider America the world and Canada is as international as most of us care to venture.

In football we make no pretenses: we declare a world champion even though we invite no other countries to participate. Sounds fair to me.

Too many points are scored in basketball, I agree. But football is perfect, it has a medium amount of scores. Best of all is that its like war: real estate is gained and lost, there are airborne and ground attacks and they don't spend a lot of time going back and forth with no score: you either score or die.

I honestly think American football is superior to soccer. I guess its just my bias though.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
blink182
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 6:42 am

I think it all comes down to 1 thing, T3 is terrible. True, it offers great views(especially from the Admirals Club) but BAA needs to refurbish the terminal and have separate arrivals/departures floors.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
N863DA
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 6:53 am

It's nothing to do with the topic, but the reason the "World Series" is called the World Series is because it was sponsored originally by a newspaper called, "The World".

As to the terminal arrangements, the same can be said of Delta at Gatwick... not so much the other US carriers that use the South Terminal, but Delta, in the North Terminal, has the same problem, often winding up on remote stands or at gates 46, 47 and 48.
 
Marcus
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 7:17 am

***********************
Unless you work there, then there is no need for you to know that kind of information, just be satisfied with my origional answer.
Sorry, but I am not going to post sensitive security arrangements on a world wide website that can be viewed by just about anybody so hope you understand
***************

Oh! please!!!..........As if Osama Bin Ladden needed the information on this website to plan his attacks.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
Leezyjet
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 7:22 am

Back to the thread,

The BAA has been given a time limit on segregating arriving and departing passengers in all terminals by the DTLR.
The problem in T3 tho, is that if they built another floor ontop, then this would restrict the view from the tower, as it is too low, so until a new tower is built (will have to be when T5 is built anyway) they are looking at putting glass screens up in the corridors, and having security guards on the crossing points where departing pax will have to cross arriving pax to get into the gates.

Best thing they could do tho is pull the lot down and start again Big grin
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
roguetrader
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 10:45 am

N863DA,
Outstanding tidbit of knowledge there. I'm impressed.

Best thing they could do tho is pull the lot down and start again

Amen, brother. What a gigantic quagmire the Brits have got themselves into here with Heathrow. BA is hurting because it can't develop its partnerhship with AA fully...because of Heathrow. PAX are starting to connect through CDG, FRA, & AMS, because Heathrow is such a mess. The good news is that Airbus is building a whole new gigantic airplane that owes at least half of its current order book to Heathrow slot controls. Maybe it will work well for LHR, but will it be too little, too late?

Honestly, I think the UK should take a long hard look at the carriers at LHR. Does it really matter if Iran air flies to LHR or LGW? Some of the even more exotic carriers from quasi-criminal or barely solvent nations should be sent to LGW. I want BA and the other British airlines there, combined with all the US based carriers - and thats it.

Maybe not that extreme, but something along the lines of reserving LHR for the top-notch highest-rent-paying airlines.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
TonyBurr
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 10:56 am

Leezyjet, u say that UA/AA are at the end of the terminal for securoty to enter "fortress America" This may be true since Sept 11, but I have been flying UA to London for many, many years before the new security arrangements, and UA has always been "way out there". It can not then be due to security. The securoty before Sept 11 was basically the same for every airline. Since it has been there many, many years, and therefore not new security, what is it...........
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 11:18 am

This means PIA have better parking spots than AA and UAL........i smell corruption.....hehehe jk  Big thumbs up
 
Leezyjet
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Tue May 07, 2002 10:45 pm

Tonyburr,

You may not notice the extra security equipment in those gates, as it is behind screens and is there for people who were selected for extra screening at check-in which is done randomly, so unless you were selected for extra profiling you may not have known.

It has been there for as long as I have worked at LHR (5 years), and was there before I started, and I never mentioned anything about 11/09 as I just said they have had it for a long time before then.

Another reason, as I said before was because they wanted their passengers to be able to clear customs/immigration before departure (as in Shannon) but because BA and VS complained, it never went ahead.

Marcus,

As the security at UK airports has for a long long time been much better than at US airports, thats why we have never had a hi-jacking of an aircraft out of the UK, let alone 4 in one day.

I'm sure Mr. Bin-Laden didin't get his info from this site, but you never know if there are other extremists out there do you ?. Can you be sure that everuone on this site is a genuine aviation buff ??. Everyone thought Mohammed Atta was genuinely interested in learning to fly, and as it is the US airlines that are constantly targeted, then better to be safe than sorry eh. ?

After the Pan-Am crash back in '89 the UK government insited on 100% screening of ALL hold baggage, which has now been inplace for almost 10 years. It wasn't even a UK airline or aircraft that was the target, but the yanks still didn't see the need to do anything about it due to the gung-ho ' no-one can touch us attitude' that has only just started to change since 11/09.


Happy walking at T3.

Leezyjet.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
blink182
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Wed May 08, 2002 6:58 am

As for screening at the AA/UA gates at LHR, I was there in august '01 and did not notice anything. I did notice at the gate, but that was more for giving your boarding pass and letting the agent check it.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Wed May 08, 2002 8:08 am

I have never noticed any sort of extra security measures at T3 at LHR, but it's reassuring to know that it's there.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
transswede
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Wed May 08, 2002 9:12 am

Is that called a terminal? It looks more like a set of loosely coupled barracks to me... Yuck.
 
TonyBurr
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Wed May 08, 2002 10:38 am

Leezyjet it would be GREAT if you could clear US customs/immigration before boarding as in Ireland and Canada. A great idea. If only some day it would be put into effect it would be tremendous!!!
 
aio86
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Wed May 08, 2002 2:01 pm

Wow, this was interesting to read...

Could someone tell me though, in that picture at the top, what airline is that plane sitting between the PIA and Varig?

thanks,
-aio
 
usflyer msp
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Wed May 08, 2002 6:25 pm

Aio86:

That is Biman Bangladesh


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © STUART PRINCE

 
thadocta
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Thu May 09, 2002 12:22 am

RogueTrader - "Honestly, I think the UK should take a long hard look at the carriers at LHR. Does it really matter if Iran air flies to LHR or LGW? Some of the even more exotic carriers from quasi-criminal or barely solvent nations should be sent to LGW. I want BA and the other British airlines there, combined with all the US based carriers - and thats it." - have to agree with you there.

LHR and LGW are both equally convenient for the majority of inbound tourits, it is really only UK residents flying out who will seem to have a preference, and that is mainly because of connections in London from their rail services onto either HEx or GEx.

I flew into and out of both LHR and LGW in 2/02, and found both of them equally user friendly, both of them equally accessible to central London - admittedly HEx is quicker to Paddington than GEx is to Victoria, but then I needed to be at Euston, so it didn't matter either way.

I am not sure what the solution is here though. Certainly BA should stay at LHR, and therefore QF should stay there as well, otherwise there will be endless confusion, since all QF flights out of LHR also carry BA flight numbers, and moving QF flights to LGW will cause self-loading-cargo to go to the wrong airport if booked under the wrong carrier.

I would probably think that all European flights operated by carriers other than BA should go to LGW - but then they will cry foul because BA has LHR tied up while they have to suffer at LGW.

It is all too hard, I think, to make a blanket solution that "all flights going to such-and-such operated by ZZ airline should be at LGW" - all ops need to be assessed on their merits.

Dave
 
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Thu May 09, 2002 2:23 am

Folks,

I dont understand all this talk of LHR being a big mess and a confusion. I've been/flown to AMS/FRA/DTW/JFK/DFW/LGW and none of them were any better or worse than LHR.

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jrlander
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Thu May 09, 2002 3:10 am

I have found LHR to be quite a pain to transfer at, even if it is within Terminal 3. The walk all the way from one of the AA or UA gates to the transit area, and then back out to a gate of someone else (like Gulf Air) took FOREVER. When I have had to transfer from one terminal to another at JFK, in all of its mess, was easier. Last time, I had an hour at LHR, and it was barely enough time. My luggage actually did not make it.
 
qantas744
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Thu May 09, 2002 4:35 am

I thought I'd been in the worlds worst gate lounge when I got AA137 out of T3 gate 22 a couple of months ago-then I discovered gate 16 in terminal last week,no windows of any form,dreadful lighting and a colourful carpet. Changi was better than this 15 years ago....parts of LHR are awful, but parts of LHR are good especially T4. Generally speaking it is in a bad way, especially for such an important airport.

I've been through the security for an AA flight and I was waved through the gate without having my cabin luggage checked for the second time-my wife however had everything in her cabin baggage emptied out behind the screens that Leezyjet mentioned.Incidentally our 777 went tech and we returned to the gate for about two hours during which time we were virtual prisoners in the gate lounge,only being allowed to leave to use the toilets on surrender of our passports to the gate agents,no food or drink was supplied to us despite the fact that we had spent 90 mins on the aircraft and 90 mins in the gate lounge in addition to half an hour awaiting pre-boarding.I thought we might at least be able to go back to the shops etc and then repeat the pre-boarding security screening.At least the rest of the flight was ok.


Matt
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Leezyjet
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Thu May 09, 2002 7:53 am

Qantas,

That is every airlines worst fear at the gate (especially with a tech problem as you never know exactly how long it's going to be), when everyone is boarded and has to get off again. Basically all the procedures in the gate areas relate to getting people onto the aircraft, and when you have to take them off again it causes no end of problems, as your boarding passes have already been pulled, along with the flight coupons (which are in no particular order) so it's difficult to give them back out again which you would need to do if people were to go away from the gate area. Also as most airlines reconcile the passengers as they board thru the computer, it's difficult to de-board everyone and causes lots of hassle. I know it's not very good for passengers, but the amount of extra work it create's for the staff along with the potential problems, it's just not worth it unless it's going to be a very long delay or an overnighter.

As for providing food, each airline has a differant caterer at LHR, but usually they need at least 2 hours notice to suddenly come up with food and drinks for 200+ people, as well as doing all the normal flight catering, so unless the delay is going to be a very long one, there isn't the time, as most of the catering units at LHR are located off airport, so there is also the traveling time to consider too.

Maybe it's a good idea to have a bottle of coke and a sandwich in your h/baggage 'just incase' ???.


Leezyjet.

"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
aio86
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RE: UA/AA Gate Assignment At LHR

Thu May 09, 2002 10:10 am

Thanks USFlierMSP!  Smile

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