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Sabena 690
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Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 12:53 am

Hello guys,

I would just tell you that exactly 6 months or a half year ago, the Société Anonyme Belge de l'Exploitation et de la Navigation Aérienne stopped flying, to announce their bankruptcy.

That day, the last flight of Sabena, an Airbus A340-311 landed at Brussels as SN690, coming from Abidjan and Cotonou.

This is the aircraft after it's arrival:

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Photo © Pieter



It is already a half year ago, and there are still lot's of unemployed pilots, flight attendants and ground staff without a job.

I hope that all the problems that all those people have now will be solved soon, and that the new Belgian dream can be a success.

A new dream started in the meantime:

First, just after the bankruptcy, we had DAT (Delta Air Transport):


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Photo © Fabrice Sanchez
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Photo © Bart Noëth



Now, this company has become SN Brussels Airlines:


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Photo © Herr Jottier
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Photo © Charles Falk



We have Birdy Airlines, for the African flights of SNBA:


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Photo © Bart Noëth
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Photo © Bart Noëth



We also have a replacement for CityBird: Thomas Cook Airlines:


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Photo © Daems Guy
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Photo © Daems Guy



And we have a new company for the American flights (which has not started flying yet): VG Airlines:


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Photo © Hilke Buhr
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Photo © Pieter Declerck




But we lost our National Airline, and it is still hard to face and believe it!!  Crying

To all the unemployed SN Staff: keep your thumbs up!! I hope that you all will have a big and great future in the airline business.

Not to forget the project of Beca, which are founding their own airline now (BEAP).
You all have a great job guys, keep it up!!

Best regards,
Frederic
 
sabena_A340
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 1:18 am

Yes
The time is going on without Sabena :-(

 
Sabena 690
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 1:56 am

Yes Sabena_a340,

It is hard, but we have to...  Crying

Regards,
Frederic


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Photo © Luís Padrão
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Photo © Felix Sieder



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Photo © Jorgos Tsambikakis

 
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apuneger
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 2:43 am

By the way, for those of you who shouldn't already know, today two books were released about Sabena:

'De crash van Sabena' (in English: Sabena's crash)
'Het avontuur van Sabena' (in English: Sabena's adventure)

I have bought these two books immediately, but I haven't got the chance to start reading them (I probably won't be able to start reading them until after my final exams). Nevertheless, I think both books are nice documents of one of the greatest airlines I've ever known: Sabena.

By the way, nice post, Sabena 690

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
gerardo
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 3:51 am

Well, there's not much missing, in my opinion.

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 5:10 am

How do you dear to say this here Gerardo!!!

Don't you have any feeling or so????

This is for the full 100% against all the people who lost their job, and all the people that fought for their company during all those years!!!

 Angry  Angry  Angry

No regards!!!
 
gerardo
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 5:19 am

Sure I have feelings. And this one says to me: "Sabena gone? There's not much missing."

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Spitfire
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 6:13 am

Gerardo,

For us it's exactly the same for Swissair and if Swiss could follow in the same trash , you will have thousands of happy sabenian, of course....

If you 'd like to speak this silly way, we are able to follow you, but that will be my final answer to somebody like you.

At least have some respect for you, if you can't have for others.

Spitfire
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (15 years already , what a shame !! )
 
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apuneger
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 6:46 am

Gerardo:

Ever heard of the word 'empathy'? Apparently not. Well, I won't let you destroy this topic, so I'll just ignore you as from now...(one last remark however: take some dutch lessons and start reading those two books, maybe you'll actually learn something and open your mind...)

Sabena has always been a part of my life, and I was hoping on going to work for SN after I graduate, but that won't be necessary now, unfortunately...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Spitfire
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 6:52 am

Dear Sabena 690,

Thank you for this topic and the very nice pictures.

Let's hope that all sabenian will find quickly a way to the sky again...

Regards.

Spitfire
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (15 years already , what a shame !! )
 
avion
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 6:53 am

Well i guess RIP Sabena.

Apuneger: I have read a swiss book about the Swissair crash and it probably says the exact opposite of what your book will say. So there is always two sides to it. Always consider that. I for one have.


Tom
 
donder10
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 10:07 am

Companies are not charities-Sabena had made a profit once in its history hadnt it?
 
brons2
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 12:35 pm

I had the pleasure of flying Sabena from DFW-GVA in February of 2001. Flew an A332 from DFW-BRU and then a 733 from BRU to GVA. Great airline, excellent service. I would have loved to fly them again, but sadly they are no more.

However, the transatlantic legs on the A332 were really quite empty...that couldn't have been good for business...

At any rate, RIP Sabena.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
gerardo
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 3:24 pm

SN690, Apuneger et alteris

Do you feel somehow attacked? Well, do a search for topics about SWISS, Swissair or Crossair and look, how many times Sabenians jump in, just to throw out their silly comments. I jumped in just to state my opinion, as short as possible and without any unprovable statements, just "I don't miss Sabena." Period!

Comments of Sabenian:
- "I'll just ignore you as from now..."
- "If you 'd like to speak this silly way, we are able to follow you, but that will be my final answer to somebody like you."

Once again: I don't miss Sabena at all. It was a loss making welfare organisation. That's my opinion. Do I have to apologize for not sharing your opinion?

I bet, none of you would miss SWISS, Switzerland and so on. And I bet, you will post your b......t in the next SWISS related topic, but of course, you feel you're entitled to do so, while we Swiss bastards should shut up and be happy to still be alive.

Well, perhaps there are really 2 sides of each story. Think about that.

Byebye
see you all in the next topic about SWISS (Wanna bet?)
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
airbuspilot
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 5:54 pm

At least we come up with facts or we ask you some facts. We rerfrain ourselves of such stupid statements like you just did.

We even write down our support to the swiss people and all employees who found work at the successor companies. Not once I have written down a personal remark!

But Gerardo seems to think we are all against his person! Poor poor porr b.....d!
 
gerardo
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 6:19 pm

Well, fact is, that I don't miss SN.

Want some questions? OK:
- Where did the 100's of Mio US$ go, which SR sent to SN?
- How many times did SN post a financial positive result?
- Why should I miss SN?

Gerardo

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
swake
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 7:52 pm

Donder the nature of the topic is in no way related to economic realities. It's all about losing a symbol that has been around for so many years. I never was connected to SN in any way and I've never been much of a Sabenafan (it was a burden for us taxpayers indeed) but I can understand though not approve off some of the emotions expressed by former Sabeniens or SN lovers. People tend to identify after having been in a company for some years. A year ago I saw a series on the BBC on the Rover-BMW deal. ('How Rover met BMW'). When the Germans in the end pulled out the Rover workforce resented the BMW management decisions as well though most analysts acknowledged that Munich didn't have much of a choice.
 
ly334
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 7:53 pm

Well, great topic.

I must say that I grew up on Sabena, and flew them really really a lot.

In Europe, to the states and to Tel Aviv.

I loved flying them, especially when they flew with the B707's, then with the A310.

I loved flying the overnight flights from JFK to BRU - it was such a great and relaxing experience when you boarded the B747 and the cabin crew was so freshed up to receive you on board this 7 hours flight.

I loved flying the 737's in Europe, the latest A319/320/321's.

I am really mad about the loss of this airline.

If I would have the financial possibilitty, I would recap this airline and do out of it a good and profitable company.

Keep up all "Sabenians".


ly 334.
All my toughts are in aviation!!!
 
Spitfire
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 8:38 pm

Toda raba Ly334
Shalom
Spitfire
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (15 years already , what a shame !! )
 
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apuneger
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 9:07 pm

Avion:

I don't know what your books say, but it is very well possible. and of course I know that source A might say 'yes' while B says 'no' (I hope you get my point...) but still, if even swiss people are saying that SR's policy killed SN (I'm not saying that it wouldn't have passed away without them)...

Sorry guys, I can't resist it:

Gerardo:

Of course you're free to state your personal opinion, but this topic is clearly about people who miss SN, and then all of a sudden you walk in making a statement like 'couldn't care less...as a matter of fact, I'm pleased with the fact they're gone'...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
ly334
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 9:18 pm

Spitfire,


Hoe gaat het met U?
Comment allez vous?


How do you know these Hebrew words?
Did SN teach them to you as a pilot to know how to thank the passengers after landing when flying to TLV?

Did you ever fly to TLV?


ly334
[email protected]
All my toughts are in aviation!!!
 
Spitfire
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 9:48 pm

Ly334,

Je ne vais pas trop mal, merci.

I flew often to TLV in B737 (early 80's) and DC10 in the 80's and 90's.
My last flight on Sabena DC10,just before I studied the Airbus 340, was BRU-TLV-BRU, in april 1997.
No Sabena didn't teach me hebrew but spending a lot of time in TLV and in your country I learned them with the people I met. I think it's important to try to speakand understand a few words of the country your visit as a pilot, let's say: in order not to die completly stupid  Wink/being sarcastic
As crew member, we had the opportunity to see the world, the people, the differences and the particularities of different cultures. I am happy I had those possibilities for 21 years at Sabena. But I'm also very very sad this ended this way. I'm looking forward to find other happy trip one day...

Sawadee Krap (thai)

Spitfire

ps. Send me your e-mail, I'll explain you more.
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (15 years already , what a shame !! )
 
ly334
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 10:06 pm

I mailed you at your mail adress here on A.net at your personal profile
All my toughts are in aviation!!!
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Tue May 07, 2002 10:18 pm

Is it true that the service in Sabena was so bad that it was often known as :


Such A Bloody Experience Never Again (SABENA) !!

Also at any time in the 80s did Sabena fly to ne destination in India. It is indeed bad to lose a national airline.
 
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apuneger
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 12:24 am

Air India:

About your first comment: that's just a stupid rumour that started I don't know when...And the thing I hate about rumours, is that most people actually tend to believe them. So, no, service at SN was decent, I have no complaints whatsoever.

The only people who start complaining are those who think that modern airliners hould in fact be 5 star restaurants and the F/A's are only there to help them, and do nothing for other pax.

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 12:31 am

Spitfire, Apuneger, Sabena_a340, Ly334, Swake, Airbuspilot, Brons2: Thanks for your comments guys  Smile.

Today, at 11 'o clock, I watched every single minut on my watch, from the time that the A343 landed, the honour salute by the fire brigade, till the time that the last passengers went of the plane.  Crying

It was a very sad experience to know that all this happened six months ago.
If I could turn the time back, I guess we all would do it. But it is impossible. We will have to believe it one day, and the only thing we can do is hope for a better future.


Gerardo especially and the others:

Here are some remarks.

1) Every time we jumped in a Swiss(air) topic, we had a reason. You all (without starting the discussion again) still don't seem to face that we made mistakes, but that Swissair played a very big role in the bankruptcy of Sabena. When you started topics like: 'Swiss A343's, were does the money come from', we tried to answer your questions by giving some opinions, we never destroyed one single topic of you all, because what we were saying was the truth, and because we were answering the question asked in the topic.

This topic is totally different. It is a topic were me and all the others want to do a tribute for the company we all loved.
If you start such a topic about Swissair, we would never have been jumped in it. But once again, you are all proving that talking with you guys is completely impossible, I am very dissapointed in it, and the respect I have for you now is minus 0%!!!
I thought that you all would have a very little bit of respect, but I made a mistake.
Wait untill you start a topic about 'Swissair declared bankrupt 6 months ago', than we will jump into it, and than you will know that providing your stupid comments in a topic like this is hard, very hard. Or maybe we will not jump into it, to show that Belgians are not childish, and still have respect, even for people which are providing rubbish.
This was just to let you know it...


@Airindia:
Saying that Sabena Such.... is, is completely untrue, false and even stupid like the comments of our Swiss friends.
Sabena always had a great service. It is easy to say that Sabena stood for Such..., but if you think some minuts, you will also find such sentences for BA,...

It is always easy to say something bad of it, you will almost never hear good things about companies etc.


Regards,
Frederic
 
gerardo
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 1:10 am

It seems, as if someone is heating up here, doesn't it?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

SN690 especially
You really make me smile. Why don't just accept other opinions? You say, you always had a reason to jump in a Swiss(air) topic and that you "tried to answer your questions by giving some opinions" and " never destroyed one single topic, because what we were saying was the truth

Yeeeeaaaahhhhh riiiiiiiight! So, YOU say the truth. And what do we do? Tell lies? Merci beaucoup!

Kinda reminds me of a topic some months back, why some people always were getting mad, when the name Celidh appeared.

SN690: "This topic is totally different. It is a topic were me and all the others want to do a tribute for the company we all loved."

When you jump into SWISS topics, do you ask first?

SN690: "I thought that you all would have a very little bit of respect, but I made a mistake."

Sorry to say, but I show the same respect for you, as you show for us.

SN690: "Wait untill you start a topic about 'Swissair declared bankrupt 6 months ago', than we will jump into it, and than you will know that providing your stupid comments in a topic like this is hard, very hard."

I knew it before. You dodn't have to mention it. But thanks for your "warning"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.

SN690: "Or maybe we will not jump into it, to show that Belgians are not childish"

Did I say, Belgians are childish? Excuse me, but that is plain wrong.

SN690: "Sabena always had a great service. "

Is that again one of your hard facts?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Could go on and on like this.

Anyway, kind regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Turbotrent
Posts: 146
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 2:55 am

Indeed, nice topic Sabena_690. I also still feel pain in my hart when I think about Sabena  Sad
It just isn't the same anymore at BRU, there will always be something missing. And of course we have SNBA, Thomas Cook,... now, but that can NEVER replace the empty space Sabena left...

Greetz,

Tom
Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge.
 
KENNY
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 3:09 am

@ Sabena 690

Thanks for this great topic, I like that Sabena *snif* is reminded, when I watched the pictures on television, in the last part of "Het leven zoals het is - Luchthaven 2", i started to cry, its so sad.

@ Gerardo

I think Sabena 690 has right, Sabena's bankruptcy has 2 main reasons in my eyes:
- Bad management (especially the decisions for the Swiss)
- The strikes of the pilots (this was just the last part, the company was already destroyed when they went to strike).

@ Airindia

This is just such a regular task, what do you think about Sabena - Sex aan boord en nergens anders (sex on board and nowhere else) - could also be  Smile

Greetz,
Kenny

 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 5:02 am

Hello guys,

Thanks for the replies  Smile

@Turbotrent:

It just isn't the same anymore at BRU, there will always be something missing. And of course we have SNBA, Thomas Cook,... now, but that can NEVER replace the empty space Sabena left...

Yes, I have the same feeling about this. It is not the same anymore... I think we will have to get used on it...

Best regards,
Frederic



 
Staffan
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 5:23 am

Is it true that SNBA means 'Same Nasty Bloody Airline'?  Wink/being sarcastic

Flew SN once, can't say I was impressed, guess some service matters after all....

Staffan
 
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luchtzak
Posts: 486
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 7:26 pm

@ Staffan

This is what you make of it yourself.

You say you flew SN once, well SN BA is another company, just to let you know.

kind regards
luchtzak
Swim - bike - run - finish! And a flight attendant ;-)
 
Guest

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 7:53 pm

Oh goody, another Sabena thread!  Yawn

Look guys, stop living in the past. Sabena's a dog that was put to sleep. Get over it.

Who was really to blame? Try:

1) Corrupt management - the amount of nepotism there was frightening. The amount of fraud there even more so ... who remembers the mysterious (and very convenient) hangar fire at SN Technics?  Big grin

2) Corrupt government - the Walloon Socialists were the most to blame here. They (and the Walloon establishment) knocked on the head the one viable deal to save SN - the merger with KLM, simply because it was Dutch. They then tried to force a shotgun marriage between AF and SN but AF was never really interested.

3) Corrupt Unions - despite being told by everybody that the constant 'social actions' were driving away passengers, they continued. After all, their friends at the Walloon Socialist party kept bailing them out - so there was nothing really to worry about? BeCA was the worst of all - and they weren't even a recognised union! Indeed, it was BeCA's actions that directly caused Swissair Group's bankers to pull the plug on them.

4) Swissair Group - who bought into Sabena hoping to gain a foothold into the lucrative EU market at an underutilised airport. They didn't appreciate the size of the Sabena problem until it was too late. Their commitment of Sabena to Airbuses for the sake of commonality with Swissair was not a good idea.

5) Sabena's reputation - not for nothing did people say that Sabena stood for "Such A Bloody Experience Never Again". This meant that the only way that they could attract passengers was to offer the lowest fares around - and that meant they lost money. Thanks to Swissair, Sabena's service standards were slowly improving - but too slowly to merit a rise in yields.

The people I feel for were those who after being made unemployed following the company's collapse, were unable to claim any benefits because the company (and their unions) did not provide them with the correct documentation needed to claim them.
 
swake
Posts: 227
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 8:02 pm

Eh bien. Need one say more?

Oh yes, the managements total lack of vision on how to effectively cope with low cost competition, the VEX deal.
Well, there was no way to cope really
 
Guest

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 8:24 pm

True, and I forgot to mention the CTB/MD11 deal as well ... and Sabena management using CTB's deal with CAL to operate flights for them BRU-FIH as a convenient excuse to renege on it!
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 8:49 pm

Oh goody, another Sabena thread!  Yawn

Some problems with it Ceilidh? I think that Sabena is worth some topics...

2) Corrupt government - the Walloon Socialists were the most to blame here. They (and the Walloon establishment) knocked on the head the one viable deal to save SN - the merger with KLM, simply because it was Dutch. They then tried to force a shotgun marriage between AF and SN but AF was never really interested.

This is correct for the full 100%. The same with the NMBS, again the Walloon government and the Walloon socialists which can be blamed here...

Corrupt Unions - despite being told by everybody that the constant 'social actions' were driving away passengers, they continued. After all, their friends at the Walloon Socialist party kept bailing them out - so there was nothing really to worry about?

Again right for the full 100%. Again the Walloon government and the unions which can be blamed seriously.

BeCA was the worst of all - and they weren't even a recognised union! Indeed, it was BeCA's actions that directly caused Swissair Group's bankers to pull the plug on them.

Here you make a big mistake in my opinion. Before all this happened, SR had already decided to stop giving money to Sabena, and to proceed sucking money out of Sabena. Beca and all the others knew this already for a long time. It is not by the actions of Beca that they decided to stop giving money, they had already decided this before the actions.

Swissair Group - who bought into Sabena hoping to gain a foothold into the lucrative EU market at an underutilised airport. They didn't appreciate the size of the Sabena problem until it was too late. Their commitment of Sabena to Airbuses for the sake of commonality with Swissair was not a good idea.

Swissair made very very heavy management mistakes. That of the fleet renewal was only one problem.
They have a big responsability in the SR case, and I hope that they will ever pay for their big mistakes. Like I hope that Reutlinger, Muller, the Belgian government,... will pay once for their big mistakes.

Sabena's reputation - not for nothing did people say that Sabena stood for "Such A Bloody Experience Never Again".

This is just bull sh*t. OK, Sabena's reputation was not great (the 80's,...) but thanks to SR (yes, they did something good), the service improved a lot.

This meant that the only way that they could attract passengers was to offer the lowest fares around - and that meant they lost money.

Again bull sh*t. Sabena's fares were not that cheap, and saying that they attracted their pax like you say here, is untrue.

Congratulations Ceilidh for writing some good comments here. Thanks. Since when don't you use the 'harsh language' mode anymore? Nice to see this of you...


Regards,
Frederic








 
sterne82
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 4:50 am

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 10:21 pm

"Bon, quand vous aurez fini d'en mettre sur la gueule des wallons, vous faites signe"?

Ok, maybe we haven't the best governement over here, but do not tell me that it is only the fault of the walloon governement, and the walloon socialist!

Because if it was really, and totally, the case, tell me why the Brussels P.S and the S.P (now S.P & A) does not react...???
They fear the walloon, maybe? BS!!!

It's too easy to throw everything on only one man or one group of people, the SN's demise is the fault of all and every belgian (you and myself included), no matter if he's Walloon, Flemish , German or from Brussels!!!

Think about it!

With no regards at all,

Benjamin
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Wed May 08, 2002 10:32 pm

Sterne82,

We certainly do NOT say that it is all the fault of the Walloon government and the partie socialiste, but you have to admit that every time there is a scandal, that people like Spitaels etc. are linked with it.

Also the Flemish government had mistakes, do not see this as an attack!!!

Rgds
Frederic
 
Guest

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 12:07 am

Sabena690 - BeCA was the straw that broke the camels back, as it was them - rather than the other unions - that were refusing to agree to Mueller's Survival Plan without which Swissair would not proceed. Swissair was contractually committed to paying the €210m and had arranged payment of it - it was their bankers that forced the issue by placing Swissair Group in bankruptcy in order to block the payment of funds to Sabena and AOM. They felt that it would simply be pouring money down the toilet.

As for service, Sabena was the same as BA back in the 1970s/80s until a couple of years into the Swissair management - this was one of the real results that Reutlinger obtained. Unfortunately, whilst the cabin/customer service improved, the managers behind the scenes were often the same old incompetent ones who were often there because of family or political connections.

I fully believe that had the KLM merger gone ahead, things would have worked out long term for Sabena and most Sabeniens. That it did not can be placed firmly at the feet of the government and of your King, who I understand personally vetoed the deal.

 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 12:16 am

Two new books you ALL should read:

The crash of SABENA by Decraene/Deruyter/Sciot

The adventure of SABENA by Aart De Zitter.

Both books are available in English as well. Especially the first one gives a bright vision on how things have been manipulated. And for all you critcicsts around here, do not be afraid. This is NOT a chauvinist book, everyone who is to blame passes the "revue". EVERYONE!

Read it !!!!!! Than everybody here will have the information needed for this sort of discussions!
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 1:11 am

Yes, I already talked with Apuneger about this books.
They are very interesting!!!

I am going to buy me the one of Decraene/Deruyter/Sciot this weekend, and the other one as soon as possible.

I didn't know that they are also available in English?
Maybe an idea for our Swiss friends and for our government Big grin

SAS23: I agree about the KLM merger. Everything would have been otherwise than... But we merged with Swissair  Angry

Regards,
Frederic

 
eg777er
Posts: 1782
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 1:47 am

So much for airline consolidation in Europe: one weak airline sprouts into four.

I'm very sorry for the people who lost their jobs, but isn't the Belgian market too small for anything more than SNBA?
 
Guest

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 2:13 am

Airbuspilot, you wouldn't happen to have the publisher and ISBN numbers for the English editions of those books, please? I'd be very keen to get a copy of them both.  Big thumbs up
 
pressclub
Posts: 779
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 5:51 am

Sorry guys, the book 'De crash van Sabena' is NOT available in english.
 
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apuneger
Posts: 2964
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:43 pm

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 6:55 am

Well, how about we all bought both books (I already bought them, but I have to study, so I only have little time left for reading them), read them and make up our own conclusions...

This topic, unfortunately, is once again messed up thanks to all those SN-haters...

Staffan:

To be honest, I'm surprised with your statement. I wouldn't expect this kind of talk from you. Maybe you hade a bad experience, but SN BA:'you know what'? No way...I won't buy that.

Maybe I should start another thread, taking down every single airline? maybe I should mention that SIA, Egyptair, AF, ...are all crap, because they had at least crashed one crash these last few years?

for SN's sake, just stop these dumb and never-ending discussions, they lead nowhere, they only end up in you know what...so, stop making any conclusions unless you're totally aware of ALL the facts. And, since we'll never know all of them, then it's almost impossible to make any decent conclusions...

SAS23: if you're really interested, learn some flemish or dutch and then read both books you just might learn something.

For I have spoken...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 8:07 am

It's just that...after living in this country for a while, after two jobs...and comparing them with jobs in another country, I have realized how differently employees are treated here, and that makes me 'not-so-surprised' that the employees aren't so devoted for their company as they could have been, if they just recieved some more respect from their management.

And honestly, I haven't heard much good about the service aboard Sabena from people I know that flew them regularly, and after having a not-so-impressive experience myself, it's not easy to have a different impression.

Staffan
 
User avatar
apuneger
Posts: 2964
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:43 pm

RE: Sabena, A Half Year After The Bankruptcy

Thu May 09, 2002 7:50 pm

Staffan:

Well, that's of course your personal opinion, and I respect it. Actually, at least someone who is giving some comment based on actual experiences, and not someone whose comments are based on a lot of hearsay...

Nevertheless, I hope you will have the pleasure of enjoying SN BA in the future...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography

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