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favre
Topic Author
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 1:34 am

NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:25 am

This is hot news today...The performance is not meeting expectations, more news to follow when able to elaborate further..Also NWA secured another 1 billion in additional funds..There is a rumor around MSP to be a deal in the works with Usair for possibly the shuttle..Anybody else heard anything e7plnr,azj,psu,etc...
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akelley728
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:39 am

Does this mean the DC10-40s are going to be handing around a bit longer?
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1699
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:42 am

Favre, did Warren Sapp hit you a little to hard?  Smile NW just got the 757-300, no way they would give them back so soon.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
tu154m
Posts: 613
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:43 am

Let me guess..........the 10th/11th stators on the Pratts are already going!!! What JUNK!!!(and job security!!!!!)
Steve
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
acidradio
Posts: 1595
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:49 am

NW needs 767's. Not like it's ever going to happen, but who knows in this crazy world...
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:53 am

That sounds good for a plane with already bad sales.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:53 am

I find this hard to believe. It's not like returning a piece of merchandise to Wal-Mart. NW has had years to study the performance of this a/c and could not have been so surprised that they would cancel this billion dollar purchase; not to mention all of the tooling, parts, training, etc that went into their a/c choice. Maybe they plan to defer some deliveries in order to raise capital for the rumored purchase the USAirways Shuttle.
 
usairways85
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:59 am

how about the A321 as a replacement for the 753's if they are really getting rid of them. Interesting to see that they want to purchase US airways shuttle. I would think they would not be the only airline going after it, and i'm sure the other airlines would be making offer and offer if they heard NWA was trying to get the shuttle, so i dont know how true that is.
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:07 am

HAHAHAHAHAHA.... I dont know whats crazier...

1) Farve saying NWA is getting rid of their newly delivered 753's because of bad performance. (Like they didnt have a clue what the performance was like before they bought it!)

2) Farve saying TVC will never see a scheduled NWA A320.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3721
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:11 am

Nope, haven't heard this Favre. But I have heard and seen the BS flowing like a river full of rapids at Mesaba. What the heck is NW doing? Does Anderson have Foley in a freaking head lock? What gives dude?

AZJ
 
azjubilee
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:15 am

Don't be so quick to dismiss this people... Look at AA and the MD11 and Singapore and the A340. Facts on paper and facts from other airlines are only as good as they present them. Not until the plane actually flew in the NW system with NW people did NW really learn what the plane was about. This isn't that far fetched...




AZJ
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:20 am

Don't be so quick to dismiss this people... Look at AA and the MD11

Yea, AA had the MD11 for a few years before making the decision.... Then, when they made the decision, they still had them for 10 yrs after... So, this is far fetched.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3314
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:22 am

Does anyone know the details of NW's deal to purchase the 753, and whether they were given performance guarantees?

Given the 753's been in service with carriers for a while (albeit not with the P&W's), performance issues are surprising. And if they are engine-specific issues, NW's beef may be directly with P&W.

Again, it depends on the original deal. I don't know it offhand, but I don't recall that it was such a sweetheart deal.

Steve
 
User avatar
STT757
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 12:22 pm

Total bs, the 757-300 is not different than the 757-200s NW already operates, just a fuesalage extension and maybe different Pratts. But it's still the same plane they have been flying for 15 years.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 12:25 pm

Go Farve, its your birthday!

 
USAirways737
Posts: 986
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:09 pm

It's hard for me to believe that the performance of the 753 could be that much worse than expected to make keeping the DC10-40s around a more economical decision. What could they end up getting instead if one of the most -if not the most- efficient planes in the world doesn't have good enough performance for them?

Erik in MSP
 
JBLUA320
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:45 pm

I flew NWA on August 28th and asked the crew members about this. I asked 6 people in total and here was the general concensus.

"What a load of crap. Northwest has, sofar, had no major complaints with the 753"

-jblu
 
kaitak
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:55 pm

Could it not simply be that they are flying them back to BFI (not a major distance) for some maintenance work/modifications to be done on them. No big deal; not at all unusual for new aircraft to be returned for minor changes.
 
airblue
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:58 pm

how about the A321 as a replacement for the 753's if they are really getting rid of them

The A321 could be a replacement for the B757/200 (even if it carries less passengers), not for the longer 753's.
Don't forget the B753 is a replacement for the DC-10/40.

The European charter airlines who fly the B753 seem very satisfied for their purchase. The only critics is that 753 is too long for a narrow body category so embark/disembark operations take a little bit more than usual narrow-body.
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:03 pm

Sure hope NWA doesn't pull a stunt like this one! They just got those things, now reason to do that!


-Dmitry
 
hoons90
Posts: 3659
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:16 pm

I am surprised to see them get rid of new aircrafts so fast,... and they still keep the DC9 !

btw Maiznblu, you spelt Favre's username wrong hehe  Big grin
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
9V-SVE
Posts: 1953
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:41 pm

What? Only for a few months and they are already returning it? AA had their MD11s for about 10 years. SIA had their A340s delivered around 1992 (?) & they still have them - planning to get rid of them by the end of next year. So its about 12 years.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 3085
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:51 pm

Re-read my post.

Jeez you people are so gullable!
Its not true!
Even the NW employees say its not true!

-jblu
 
favre
Topic Author
Posts: 561
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 6:48 pm

It is a problem with the cabin pressure system above FL290...The problem is with the engines not being able to produce enough bleed air..
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BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:59 pm

I think this guy is just trying to get some attention.

My 2 Cents
Puhdiddle
 
e7plnr
Posts: 124
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:37 pm

I have not heard any negative comments about the -300.
Will do some research to see if I can come up with anything.
The two that are currently flying have been in MSP for maint. upgrades, yet nothing major.
 
PH-BFA
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 6:22 pm

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:41 pm

No way this is true! I mean I am sure they(Northwest)made a lot of test flights before deciding to buy this aircraft. It is very unlikely they didn't discover the cabinpressureproblems during these testflights.

PH-BFA
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:50 pm

Well, the real news he posts is that NWA is negotiating with US Air (which hasn't existed for years) to purchase Shuttles.
Reads to me like NWA is negotiating a deal with NASA to purchase the Space Shuttle fleet for commercial flights to the ISS (which is currently the only commercially viable destination in space).

And if you believe that you're gullible enough to believe anything  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
I wish I were flying
 
calpilot
Posts: 881
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:53 pm

I love flying the new B757-300, and although ours do have the RR's, I think the performance is very good.
 
na
Posts: 9768
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:54 pm

Condor doesn´t seem overwhelmed, LH rejected the 757-300 as replacement for its A300/A310s because turnaround times are too long (the 753 is the longest single-aisle and is very unpleasent to board and deboard).
It wouldn´t wonder me if NW isn´t too happy although that returning them seems unlikely. That would mean NW didn´t look at the product before buying it.
As a passenger the 753 is one of the most unpleasent modern airplanes I must say.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:54 pm

You are about six months off of April Fools day.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:58 pm

Do tell,

how much more unpleasent is a 757-300 to board compared to a strech 8?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
akelley728
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:43 pm

If what Favre said is true, then it's an issue with the P&W 2037 (or is it 2040?) engines, and not necessarily an issue with the airframe itself. From what I heard, Continental (confirmed by CALPilot above) loves theirs, and so does ATA, Condor, etc. Of course they are all RR powered... hmm.

I'm sure they will come up with some modification to get the 757-300 to work to Northwest's satisfaction. There is too much at stake here.

--
Na:

The DC-8 series 61/63 and 71/73 were as long as (or longer) then the current 757-300. Didn't hear too many complaints about those, and they came out thirty years ago!
 
aamd11
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 11:54 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:02 am

Wasnt one of the original concerns the loading/unloading of the cargo??

Boeing had worked with Condor to try and find a solution which would keep that part of the turnaround to a minimum, and Condor was satisfied with the result.

But i guess the passanger loading/unloading is something else!
It cant be that much of a Problem for NW/CO who have a more standard seating config compared to Condor who uses a charter config right??

And i am pretty sure NW/CO understood the passanger issue, they knew how long the aircraft was and how many pax it has the ability to seat, so they must have known well in advance that it might cause a slightly longer turnaround, althought not by much.

It doesnt seem to make sense,
Althought, something which could be rellated to the return to BFI.... the new boeing "bigbins"!!!
NWs next aircraft [753] is being fitted with the new bigbins, it is the first aircraft to recieve the new bins, so mabye the first ones are heading back at some point to be updated with the new bins...

Story from Beoing http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2002/photorelease/q3/pr_020808g.html

Hope this helps, could be that, we will see if its BS or a simple upgrade!

A^A MD-11
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:09 am

Jwenting,

News alert for you... US AIRWAYS!!!! operates a shuttle from DCA to LGA
to BOS as a triangle service. This has been around for years, started as Eastern,Trump, etc. Leather Seats, every pax guaranteed a seat, even
if a standby aircraft must be used.
This is the shuttle they are talking about...Its designed for the
business traveller....
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
na
Posts: 9768
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:12 am

I´ve flown with a Condor 753 last year and I must say I was annoyed of how long I got stuck in the narrow single aisle. Never experienced a worse traffic jam in an aircraft. Don´t know about the old DC-8s but remember they were flown in the 60s and 70ss when you could enter in the back as well so long lines were not so common as today frontboarding only!
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:39 am

I have flown Jumpseat it CO's 757-300 3 times.
The only complaint they ever had was that the GA's had to crack down on checking seat numbers when boarding the aircraft so the isle did not get gummed up.
That and the Bagsmashers hate it, But who ever loved smashing bags in the first place. (I never did)

So I see little chance that NW would ditch a plane after so little time. They have had hard numbers to look at from something like 5 airlines.
Plus they would have to pay very, very large charges to Boeing for canceling the order this late.

Anyone else notice that no one has popped up to confirm Favre's statement.
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9175
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:41 am

there is a 351 sitting at RNT, N583NW, awaiting pre-delivery, it just came out of the paint shop, I have uploaded a shot of it  Smile
 
hammer
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 9:02 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:12 am

I have talked to a few mechanics here in DTW and a few pilots that have flown the 753 and they also said that the planes will be going back to get the problem fixed...favre was not b.s.ing anybody on this one, it is true, as soon as this was posted I asked around at the airport.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:22 am

Garudarod, I know US Airways has a regional carrier called shuttle.
You quite obviously do not understand sarcasm, and neither did you read the original post which clearly states USAir (which is defunct and restarted as US Airways years ago).
I wish I were flying
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:55 am



Gee,
Thats twice today Ive had sarcasm explained to me...I think I get it now..
Now that is Sarcasm..
Hey Favre,
Since the last DC10-40 was supposed to operate on Sept 3rd, does this
mean that the last couple will now get a extension in service?
There are supposed to be a total of 7 B753 in service by the end of the
year. Will the others now not be delivered until the problem is fixed?
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
favre
Topic Author
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 1:34 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:32 am

This info came from a VP in tech ops....From what I understand Pratt is working on the issue..No extension on the DC-10-40's they are still going to greenwood,ms...
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PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8048
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 7:28 am

Well, I didn't hear anything about this cuz we don't get any mainline a.c in here. All I hear around the airport here is B.S from the US folks about losing their jobs and XJ folks about their company going in the crapper...

The other posters are blowing this out of proportion....It was never said that NW was returning the 753's FOR GOOD. Its implied that NW will return them to Boeing for mx upgrades and repairs. You can say how good all the other 753's are but remember NW's are the first with the P&W engines so its likely things could not all be on the up and up. With NW being as important a Boeing and 757 customer as they are, Boeing should be willing to make the adequate repairs. Right now NW only has 2 753's so far, with a 3rd one soon to follow.

Its unfortunete that there is so much BS posted on this site that when anyone makes a comment and might possibly have some inside info, they are automatically shot down.
 
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United_fan
Posts: 6691
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: Favre

Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:01 am

The Memphis Group in Greenwood,you know what happens there.....once they check in.....they don't check out! Too bad to see DC-10's go,but such is progress.............
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2658
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: Favre

Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:15 am

The 321 doesnt have the same range as the 752 either.
 
AvObserver
Posts: 2605
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:50 am

I think this story is a crock! If it were true, it should be big news on Aviation Week's website and I can't reference anything about it. It would certainly put Northwest's fleet evaluation procedures in a bad light! I've also read that other operators are quite satisfied with the 753, particularly its' operating economics. I could maybe see some disappointment if a specific engine type, like the P&W, fell short of it's maker's promises but this should've been uncovered during the certification process. Also, while on this subject...
Posted by Username: Na
"As a passenger the 753 is one of the most unpleasent modern airplanes I must say."

Why? Simply because it takes longer to board than the average SIT? My experience on a Continental 752 was an absolute delight! I can't image that the longer airplane would be a worse experience in the flying sense.

"I´ve flown with a Condor 753 last year and I must say I was annoyed of how long I got stuck in the narrow single aisle. Never experienced a worse traffic jam in an aircraft."

Bet you can't wait to fly the A380; then again, that crush may make you rethink your opinion of the 753.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:54 am

Nobody had yet explained why boarding a 757-300 is so much worse then boarding a strech 8
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:14 am

Azjubilee,

Well said!

L-188,

I would think that very few of the people here have had the chance to fly on a series 60 or 70 DC-8. Most of the last ones left service in the late 80s.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:26 am

The only one that I got a chance ride on was on a Hawaiian Air one in 91. ANC-HNL.

I don't think many of the people who whine about cabin lengths know what flying a classic is light.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
User avatar
wilcharl
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: NWA To Return 757-300's To Boeing

Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:01 pm

i heard the same thing about FL and the 717 when I was with them... a few minor MX problems assocaited with a new aircraft and the next thing rumor mill spits out stories that they are lemons going to fly them back to long beach yadah yadah yadah... just the airline rumor mill cranking up

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