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Daniel
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Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Wed Oct 27, 1999 10:40 pm

Who will be the first customer for the new 777X?
Will it be Cathay Pacific, Malaysia, SIA, BA, UA,
What does everyone think?
 
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sammyk
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Wed Oct 27, 1999 11:16 pm

I think Air France will do it.

Sammy
 
kaitak
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RE: Air France? Non - Jamais!

Thu Oct 28, 1999 1:07 am

I know Air France has looked at the 777-300X, but again we get into the dark world of politics. The 777X competes head to head with the A340-600, so basically what Air France would be doing would be launching a direct competitor to a French built aircraft? I think not. They've just ordered the A330-200 and any inclination towards the A340-600 could be sorted out with a nice,"relaxed" lunch at La Defense or the Elysee Palace, to suggest the possibility of early retirement to anyone who might consider such a thing!

My guess is that, like all 777-300 customers so far, it will be an Asian carrier. Oddly, although I had Cathay pegged as an A340 customer, I have an odd inkling that they might be one of the airlines pushing for this. That said, I would not be at all surprised to see BA, United or American signing for the type.
 
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sammyk
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Thu Oct 28, 1999 3:21 am

Then why does Air France even have the 777 in its fleet? Why not 100% Airbus? So if they launch it, its not like they are adding another type. They just want a longer version of what they already have. Air France must think the 777s they bought have some sort of advantage over their Airbus counterparts right?? Or was this a political decision?

Sammy
 
AFa340-300E
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AF !

Thu Oct 28, 1999 3:31 am

Hello,

I'm sure AF will !! Kai tak, I'm sure they'll order this type as politics have nothing to do with the A330-200 deal !

Believe me, AF will be the launch customer.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
 
Guest

Kaitak & Politics

Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:08 am

Hi! Kaitak, with so much politics involved in these issues, one can definetly think that AF wont be a launch customer for the 777X, but I support Alain & Sammyk and truly believe that AF can actually be the launch customer. AF has already 777 in their fleet along with A340s and a GE powered 777X makes total sense. The new A330-200 deal had nothing to do with politics and the aircraft truly deserves its success, a much better choice than the relatively old B767-300 and still restrictive (range,cargo & passenger capacity) B767-400. AF will soon be wholly privatised with the goverment having no say in its decisions. The goverment in fact knows that Spinetta would leave "tomorrow" if he is pressured or forced to take a decision against AF's success.
 
Boeing 777-400
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Thu Oct 28, 1999 7:43 am

I like this idea, but is there any say from boeing to confirm this idea?
P.S. i have had the name Boeing 777-400 long before any of this 777X came along so please make a note of that. Somewhere in all of my wrinkles (brain) I knew this would come along one day...
 
sv11
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Thu Oct 28, 1999 1:24 pm

I think Air France had a bunch of outstanding orders with Boeing for 737, 767 which they converted to 777 rather than lose the deposits. Regarding the 777X, too bad only GE engines are offered. A lot of current operators are using RR (Cathay, Malaysia, SIA, American, Delta) and PW-they would have to add a new engine type to their. But I think the market is limited and both PW and GE wanted exclusive deals to power this aircraft.
 
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ravi
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Thu Oct 28, 1999 2:08 pm

Air France has already agreed to an MOU with Boeing to order/option 16 777-300Xs. The airline prefers this airplane to replace the 747 Classics due to its slightly larger capacity compared to the A340-600.

As Snecma is onboard with the GE90-115B considerable revenue will remain inside France with the order. Air France also point-blank refuses to operate a Rolls-Royce powered airplane. You can't teach a Frenchman to like the British.
 
AFa340-300E
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777-300X Strech ?

Fri Oct 29, 1999 5:05 am

Hello,

Does somebody have some information on the strech version of the 777-300X ?

I think AF could replace all its 744 with the 773X Strech if it come into industrialization.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
 
Guest

RE: 777-300X Strech ?

Fri Oct 29, 1999 7:42 am

The 777 egroup has a lot of information on the proposed study.
 
Guest

Qantas?

Fri Oct 29, 1999 5:45 pm

considering Qantas is the only one left who Boeing consulted in the development who hasn't ordered the 777 and that Qantas was also consulted on the failed 747-500/600 dev. i think they may be the launch customer for any proposed 777 stretch, but a launch way into the future say 5-10 years
 
Daniel
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RE: A320 FAN

Sat Oct 30, 1999 12:20 am

What is the 777 egroup??Are they on the net so i could look at their site??

Thanks Daniel
 
kaitak
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RE: A320 FAN

Sat Oct 30, 1999 7:41 am

Okay, so let's recap.
Malaysia - I think so. I think they've actually made a commitment.
Thai - quite possibly. They might replace their -200s, which clash with the A330s, with -300Xs.
Korean Air - another relatively safe bet.
Emirates - hmm. Has already ordered A340-500, so more likely to go Airbus, but a possibility.
Saudia - already a GE 777 customer. Has only five 744s ordered, so may want to fill a space.
Qantas - wouldn't be at all surprised
United - could see it being the biggest 777 customer. Will launch 777F and could well use -300X to replace 747-200s and maybe even older -400s (the first -400s will be about 15-16 years old by the time the -300X enters service)
American - strong possibility. Has been pushing for a long range 777. Although it doesn't like the GE idea, the fact that it is already a 777 operator should swing it.
BA - will probably select -300 to replace 747-200s. Also has GE90 experience.
Air France. "French government knows Spinetta will resign if AF forced . . ."
Spinetta's successor will order A340-600!

 
Guest

RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Sat Oct 30, 1999 8:28 am

The 777 egroup is a discussion group about the 777. You can find it on the web at www.egroups.com and do a search.
 
AC_A340
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Sat Oct 30, 1999 8:53 am

I bet it would be AA or UA. I can pretty much guarantee it will not be a Canadian Airline 
 
The777Man
Posts: 6117
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Sat Oct 30, 1999 8:56 am

I would say the launch carriers will be: Air France, American, United, Delta (if the contract is approved), Saudi Arabian, Thai, Malaysia and Air China. Possibly also Qantas, British Airways, Cathay Pacific and maybe Singapore Airlines. The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
MAS777
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Sun Nov 07, 1999 8:50 am

Malaysia Airlines DID commit themselves to launch the Boeing 777-200X aircraft but the deal sent rather sour. The Asian economic downturn at the time saw little backing from other Asian carriers. SIA at the time was wooing Airbus with the A340-2000 or something. So I think the deal was ditched. Boeing could also not offer MAS RR-engines for the 777-200X which has made MAS put the deal off including several other 777-200/300s and Boeing 747s...but one never knows MAS does tend to buy Boeing...as MAS tends to be rather political and Airbus is rarely MAS' flavour.
 
kaitak
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RE: Malaysia

Mon Nov 08, 1999 3:51 am

I agree that Malaysia is a Boeing airline and I had rated them a pretty certain 777X customer, but I was surprised to see on the Just Planes News website - usually very accurate - that it's now tipped as an A340-500 customer!

Now that would be nice.

Well, for Airbus anyway. And for Malaysia. Well, basically for everyone except Boeing.
Oh, and GE.
 
aa737
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Mon Nov 08, 1999 4:22 am

Has boeing actually launched the 777x, or are they looking into it and will decide weather or not to go ahead at a later date? Also, why are people so sure Air France will go ahead and be the launch custome. Have they said they will be and I am just dumb, or is this speculation.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Mon Nov 08, 1999 9:28 am

BA hate the GE engines and the rest of the 777s being delivered are RR Trent. They may even be converting their existing fleet to RR.

As for Air France, they are not particularly big Airbus fans, operating a sizeable fleet of 737-500s alongside the A320, and 767-200s alongside A330s. Maybe they bought the 777 to avoid losing their deposits on older 737 and 767 orders, but I'm sure they intend to use those planes for quite a while - they are well suited to the AF destinations in the US, Middle East and Africa. Perfect plane for the job, with 747s for NY and LA, and 747s and A340s for the ultra long haul Asia routes and US West Coast.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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sammyk
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Mon Nov 08, 1999 10:19 am

British Airways put RR on their second batch of 777s because they cancelled/converted an order for 744s they had. They would have had to pay a penalty to RR for cancelling those engine orders.

Air France, i do believe they had some options left for the 767s, but made them 777s, not sure, but they did increase their order for them, from 8 to 10, or 10 to 12, with some options. I think they've signed an MOU for the 777-300X, and possibly the 777F

Sammy
 
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ravi
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Mon Nov 08, 1999 9:00 pm

1. Air France is the world's third largest purchaser of Airbus Industrie equipment after ILFC and Lufthansa. Air France is an airline that has ordered and operated the A300, A310, A318, A319, A320, A321, A330 and A340 - in other words, THE ENTIRE PRODUCT LINE. To say that AF isn't "a big Airbus fan" is incorrect.

2. BA does not "hate" GE engines. GE simply refused to offer BA a 95k lb thrust version of the GE90 that the airline wanted for its 298t 777s. RR did, and got the contract. There will be NO CONVERSION of the GE 777 fleet at BA to RR engines.

3. Malaysia Airlines has not stated a preference for the A345 or 772X. What has happened is that Airbus and Boeing have tabled offers for their respective airframes and the airline is undergoing a study of all possible scenarios to make a decision. The 772X is still favoured due to its longer range and bigger payload. However, MH is not happy with Boeing's delay of launching the airframe since 1997. MH also has a history of following exactly what SQ does.
 
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ravi
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Mon Nov 08, 1999 9:02 pm

More information on the 777X is available at:

http://www.egroups.com/group/triple7

But I'm not sure if we're allowed to post URL links.
 
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sammyk
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RE: Who Will Launch The 777X Series?

Mon Nov 08, 1999 11:52 pm

Air France & Lufthansa, and other European carriers bought Airbus for political reasons. Especially Air France since they are built mostly in their backyard.

Sammy
 
Daniel
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 6:05 am

Malaysia MAY OPT A340-WILL Boeing Delay 777X?

Wed Nov 10, 1999 3:11 am

It looks as though Malaysia may be opting for the A340-500 it said in Flight International today.
Could this set back Boeings attempts to launch the 777X???
 
aa737
Posts: 830
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:49 am

Daniel

Wed Nov 10, 1999 6:39 am

I read the Flight International article also, and the way I interpreted it was that MAS favoures boeing, but simply is looking at the A340. I sounds as they, plus a few other airlines are mad that RR engines are not available for the new 777. Thats just my thoughts.
 
Daniel
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RE: GE Exclusivity

Wed Nov 10, 1999 7:04 am

Yeah I think the same.
Boeing is really shooting itself in the foot going with the GE option.
Surley RR and PW came up with good financing plans, Boeing musnt be this short sighted, they are clearly swayed by the financing and are almost blind to the fact that RR would secure many more orders.
The majority of customers opted for RR engines and therefore would prefer to have the RR option.
I would even bet that the PW customers would prefer RR to GE.
BOEING NEEDS TO REVISE THIS DECISION!!!!!
Perhaps let the airlines decide on a sole powerplant!!!
 
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sammyk
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RE: GE Exclusivity

Wed Nov 10, 1999 9:11 am

What about the exclusivness of RR on the A340-500/600? Why isnt GE and PW available on them? And if airlines hate the lack of choice so much, why has Lufthansa (a big GE operator) opted for RR on their A340NG? RR & PW simply didnt have the growth in their engine to compete, and couldnt deliver on time.

Sammy
 
Navion
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I Don't Understand The Engine Controversy.

Wed Nov 10, 1999 11:38 am

Why the controversy over a single engine offered on the 777X series? First, Airbus does it on their A340-200/300, and A340-500/600. Second, any engine offered on the 777 was going to be a new engine and not a derivative. Finally, the GE engine has a really good record, notwithstanding some early bugs, and has the best fuel burn degradation of the biggies, as well as burning as clean or cleaner than any of the other makes. It's as though we have all forgotten GE builds great engines. Look at the CFM56 (with Snecma), the CF6-50 series, CF6-80 series. Really incredible engines. We seem to have a short memory on this forum. And, by the way, GE makes a 94,000 lb thrust version of the GE90 which would be ideal for British Airways. It makes a lot of sense they switched to Rolls to recoup deposit money on 747 engines cancelled as well as scoring big political points. I'll fly a GE115 powered 777X anyday, anytime, anywhere.
 
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sammyk
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RE: I Don't Understand The Engine Controversy.

Wed Nov 10, 1999 1:52 pm

I agree! The GE90 outperforms the others on longer ranges, and thats what the X models are for, longer ranges. Plus, at the higher thrust levels, the others lose their weight advantage as well. And as Navion said, any engine for these planes is going to be a new design anyways. No real commonality.

Sammy
 
Daniel
Topic Author
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RE: GE Exclusivity-Sammyk

Wed Nov 10, 1999 7:31 pm

I believe that RR actually ran a trent engine at 110,00lb thrust so they probably beat GE to it.
 
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sammyk
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RE: GE Exclusivity-Daniel

Wed Nov 10, 1999 10:19 pm

I agree with you, but I think that was the Trents limit, and wasnt a production engine. Also, the GE90 being used for the 777-300X is 115K, with the ability to grow to 130K or 135K, RR couldnt do that.

Sammy
 
Daniel
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RE: GE Exclusivity-Daniel

Thu Nov 11, 1999 12:14 am

I believe that they started development of the Trent 8115 which I would think would have been 115,000lb thrust judging from the name.
RR would definitely be able to meet the thrust requirements of the 777X series and would be more favourable with airlines such as CX BA SIA MAS.
 
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sammyk
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RE: GE Exclusivity-Daniel

Thu Nov 11, 1999 1:01 am

But it would have been a different engine than their other Trents. The GE90 would have been the same WITH room for growth for aircraft such as the possible 777-300XS Stretched Model.

Sammy
 
Daniel
Topic Author
Posts: 55
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RE: GE Exclusivity

Thu Nov 11, 1999 4:48 am

It may have the same engine commonality but airlines such as BA and CX werent/arent happy with the GE engines operationally.
They probably prefer the triple spool configuration of the RR engines.
 
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sammyk
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RE: GE Exclusivity

Thu Nov 11, 1999 6:35 am

When did CX operate the GE90? BA went with RR because they had deposits on them for their 744 orders. Surely if the 772 orders werent 744 conversions they would not have gone with RR, in order to keep them common.

Sammy
 
Daniel
Topic Author
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 6:05 am

RE: GE Exclusivity

Thu Nov 11, 1999 7:27 pm

I mean that CX dont seem happy with want GE present to them in the form of technical specifications for the engines.
And from what Ive heard BA werent happy with their GE90 engines.
It was probably a combination of deposits on 744s, technical merit and possibly political pressure to buy RR.
Surely they wouldnt lose commanality over 7 744 deposits.(They had 7 744s left on order).

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