Swiss, JAL, China Eastern To Join Oneworld

ORD Boy 2 · Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 pm

SWISS NEEDS BRITISH AIRWAYS’ BLESSING TO GREENLIGHT ONEWORLD MEMBERSHIP; JAPAN AIRLINES AND CHINA EASTERN NEXT?
Swiss, the successor to the late, once great Swissair, is still in negotiations with British Airways for a joint bilateral agreement for frequent flyer reciprocity before it will be officially welcomed into oneworld. Swiss has already sealed similar deals with oneworld members American Airlines, Finnair and Iberia Airlines. Don’t expect the BA-Swiss accord until early 2003.

As reported, Shanghai-based China Eastern Airlines is a potential oneworld member and now Japan Airlines has been tendered and accepted an invitation to join. But wheels grind slowly in the alliance world. The earn-and-spend benefits with the two Asian carriers are a year away, or longer."

Well it's about time. Will AA/JAL antitrust get stuck in the same bureaucratic quagmire as AA/BA antitrust? It shouldn't. All airlines will have access to NRT through their partners. Northwest will provide access for Delta & Continental. UA & ANA will provide access for USAirways. So everyones covered, right?

747firstclass · Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:42 pm

Japan does not have an openskies agreement with the US. This will be an absolute, mandatory, prerequisite before there is any US antitrust immunity given to AA/JAL.

gerardo · Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:28 pm

What's the sitatution then between ANA and UAL, both Star Alliance members?

Gerardo

blink182 · Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:43 am

I thought JAL and AA had already been granted Antitrust a long time ago. I recall that when JAL and AA both flew NRT-DFW, they codeshared on each other's flights. I do know though, that AA and JAL have codeshare deals on both sides of the Pacific. As for over the Pacific, I could have sworn that AA and JAL already had antitrust. AA's small(if not whimsical) presence at NRT and the rest of Japan helped this deal go through.

blink

Guest · Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:58 am

Japan does not have an openskies agreement with the US. This will be an absolute, mandatory, prerequisite before there is any US antitrust immunity given to AA/JAL.

I think Japan and US signed open-skies already?

747firstclass · Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:59 am

There is no openskies between US and Japan.

BH346 · Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:38 am

JAL codeshares with AA on many flights including transpac flights and many domestic Japanese flights.

Guest · Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:49 am

AA and JAL's codeshare relationship was immunized upon the conclusion of the last bilateral agreement with the US.

The same bilateral granted UA and Northwest the rights to fly from any point in the US to any point in Japan. Moreover, UA gained the right to codeshare with ANA. The big loser as it turned out of the last bilateral agreement was Delta. Not only did ANA drop Delta in favor of UA as the bilaterial negotiations stretched out, but Delta as a non-incumbent carrier only won the rights to add service to Japan from a one or two more US points. Lacking a Japanese partner, Delta has found it impossible to compete on US-Japan routes with Northwest, UA/ANA, and AA/JAL. Meanwhile, AA's relationship with JAL has been so successful that AA has been able to add flights to Narita from JFK and SJC, and soon LAX.

Though the current bilateral between the US and Japan never resulted in a true open-skies regime, it did allow for codesharing, schedule coordination, and even some revenue sharing. Following ANA's example, JAL would not have to make any concessions to third-party US airlines in order to join oneworld.

gerardo · Mon Oct 28, 2002 4:16 am

In other words, Lavedale, there are no problems anymore for JAL to join oneworld. Right? Good to see!

Gerardo

JAL · Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:09 am

It's about time that OneWorld gets new members!!!

N79969 · Tue Oct 29, 2002 6:11 am

JAL and AA do not have antitrust immunity. This is separate and distinct from codesharing agreements. AA and JAL do not have an 'immunized' agreement. In other words they cannot coordinate price and schedules. This is a very important distinction. In the absence of Open-Skies, no antitrust immunity for anyone. UA/NH do not have immunity either of course.

aviasian · Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:34 pm

Remember how Thai Airways International was upset about the entry of Singapore Airlines into Star Alliance?

Does anyone have a take on the sentiments of Cathay Pacific Airways with regards to the impending entry of JAL and China Eastern Airlines? Will CX subject both airlines to the type of negotiation that British Airways is currently involved in with Swiss?

KC Sim
Bangkok

Ryanair!!! · Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:51 pm

I think Thai's main worry is that they know SQ is a far superior carrier, hence competition would be tough. However, I don't think that Cathay Pacific has anything to worry about regarding the other 2 carriers. JAL's and China Eastern's forte aren't really trans-Asia routes, which is CX's strong point.

Thai and SQ's networks has many overlaps (except the domestic route of Thai) which makes me wonder what is the point of inviting two airlines so close to one another into the same alliance.

Hence, JAL and China Eastern would be One World's access into Japan and China respectively. Whereas I think One World's Asia's access still utilises CX for overall geographical convenience.

Well... that is the way i see it.

blink182 · Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:17 am

I can see Cathay objecting to China Eastern's entrance, but I don't see them objecting JAL's. Cathay Pacific and JAL are partners, and JAL covers Northern Asia while Cathay Pacific covers Southern Asia. I think China Eastern might slide through Cathay's grasps, as China Eastern is oneworld's way into China as Cathay does not have a gigantic China network. I do, however, see Hong Kong staying as oneworld's main hub for Southern Asia rather than Beijing.

blink

Guest · Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:47 am

This is good in on way as NZ and JL codeshare on flights between Japan and New Zealand....as an codeshare agreement....

This means if JL dumps Star for One World they might not be able to codeshare with NZ No longer....and it all adds up to JL flying there own aircraft to New Zealand . Smile/happy/getting dizzy

nzjet100

Beno · Wed Oct 30, 2002 9:33 am

I have said it before and I will say it again airlines do not care about alliances when it comes to code sharing agreements. Air New Zealand will continue to have a code share agreement with JL the same way QF has one with Asiana even though they are in star now.

aviasian · Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:09 pm

Agree with Reno that airlines are adulterous in the areas of code-shares and even FFPs.

This is not to say that it is right or wrong . . . just the way business is conducted in the world.

KC Sim
Bangkok

ORD Boy 2 · Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:35 pm

if memory serves me right doesnt Cathay Pacific own part of China Eastern

jesseycy · Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:29 pm

Bigo747, but what if Qantas took a 25% stake in AirNZ, and it leaves Star for oneworld???? Ahhhh, then NZ would codeshare with JL. Perfect......

CPH-R · Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:47 pm

If China Eastern were to join oneworld, it would bring fresh blood to the alliance. I just spotted on the CNN newsbar that their profit has soared some 473% in the first 9 months of 2002.

CXCPA · Wed Oct 30, 2002 9:45 pm

I think CX will welcome China Eastern (MU) to join the alliance if CX cannot operate flights to mainland China because CX can more easy to get codeshare(or something like that) agreement with MU. Then CX can virtually fly to mainland without the selfish block of Dragonair.

JAL · Wed Oct 30, 2002 11:37 pm

Can anyone confirm the new OneWorld members? I haven't found a news article about this.

ORD Boy 2 · Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:19 am

Its at Alliance Update at frequentflyer.oag.com

ORD Boy 2 · Thu Oct 31, 2002 4:57 am

wouldnt this spurn air china to join star and china southern to join skyteam

Guest · Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:08 am

Bigo747, but what if Qantas took a 25% stake in AirNZ, and it leaves Star for oneworld???? Ahhhh, then NZ would codeshare with JL. Perfect......

Such scenario will come to a reality IF Qantas takes 50%+ stake.

China's Big 3 is unlikely to join any alliance at this stage or early 2003. Air China, China Southern, China Eastern both have their homeworks to do domestically.

The Big 3s just finished the regrouping, and what they are concentrating right now is how to make their schedules more perfectly, and not overlapping the routes within the groups.