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L.1011
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Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:04 am

Today I was looking at the Airbus website (even though I prefer Boeing), and basically it said that the 1,832nd A32X had been delivered surpassing the earlier generation 727 and establishing the A32X as the clear single-aisle leader. This statement is wrong in two aspects. First, Boeing sold 1832 727s, so Airbus won't surpass them until the 1833rd aircraft is delivered. Second, how is the A32X the market leader when its only competitor, the 737, has sold nearly three times as many examples? I know this is a little off topic, but I would like to commend Boeing for having the guts to mention their European competitors by name. Airbus only refers to Boeing aircraft as "the competition."
 
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:31 am

This is only natural, airbus will always claim the A320 is the greatest single aisle jet ever made, the A340 is 50 million times better than the 777. While boeing will also claim the 767 is far superior than the A330. Both manufacturers do a fantastic job, but don't be suprised if they always end up claiming their plane is the greatest. This is what happens between two big rivals, not just in planes, but in other businesses too.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
mf3864
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:37 am

Right, its all about competition. I also belive that they each drive the other to be better. Without any competition, they would stagnate. You buy the product because it suits your needs, not because its A or B.
 
Tom_EDDF
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:23 am

Don't care too much about PR and advertising...

Calling the A32X the clear market leader is backed by the fact that the A32X is the fastest selling airliner ever, having won more sales than the 73X in almost every year recently.

But nothing to worry about.
 
cfalk
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:39 am

Since the A320 has been in production (1988) Boeing has sold nearly 2900 B737s.

But admitedly, their most recent numbers favor Airbus, I think.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:43 am

There were 1260 Boeing 727-200 built, NO SINGLE AIRCRAFT from either manufacturer has topped that 737-200 and 300 got close but no cigar! 757 is close as well.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
cfalk
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:03 am

Oh, if you only want to compare single types rather than families, Airbus still has a way to go. Only 1089 A320s have been delivered (the rest A319 and A321s).

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
aeroguy
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:12 am

I don't know how many people have been following, but Airbus used to have more detailed order and delivery info on their website. Unlike Boeing's website, on Airbus' website you can only get info from the current year. So to answer the A320 sales history question wouldn't it be nice if Airbus would post past data? Now since I don't trust Airbus any farther than I can throw them, I've been tracking the numbers they've published. Of course, I'm still not sure how much I'm supposed to believe their published data either. Why? Sometime in 2000 I think, they took the historical numbers off the web, leaving only the totals that you can find today. When the detailed history disappeared, the total number of orders conspicuously dropped by exactly 500. So somewhere 500 airplanes disappeared and I don't know what model or year those were...

Anyway, according to info on Boeing's and (back in the day) Airbus' website, the A320 family (318-321) outsold the 737 family in 1990, 1994, and 1997-1999. 2000 was interesting, they were dead tied at 388 a piece. And of course this year thanks to Easyjet, the A320 has outsold the 737. So from 1990 to 2002, A320 outsold the 737 6 years and the 737 outsold the A320 6 years. Keep in mind this doesn't account for those 500 mystery orders....
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:01 am

Yeah all types of businesses claim superiority. Look at how in the U.S. Dodge, Ford and Chevy/GMC all claim that their full size pickup trucks are the toughest on the road.
 
TK
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:15 am

You're definitely pointing fingers towards the wrong side here L.1011.
Time and time again, its Boeing's PR thats blatantly exaggerated and one-sided. Boeing seem to always come up with new surveys results about Boeing aircraft being better and more superior then Airbus. Without doubt, every company is going to say that their product is superior. But, from past history, between Airbus and Boeing, Boeing has been the sore loser so to speak. They've have been nothing but sour grapes every time Airbus gets an order or builds a new airplane. One funny example of Boeing's pettiness took place at the Farnborough airshow when Boeing got ticked off because Virgin Atlantic put the slogan "4 engines 4 long-haul on their A340-600s." No offense to Boeing fans but their PR have really deteriorated sine the 1990's.

TK
 
BHXviscount
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:19 am

mf3864 Big thumbs up spot on! most of the technical advances have happened during intense rivalry/war,not justWW1/WW2 but the "cold war"- men in space,the race to the moon....
Airbus needs a competitive Boeing like Boeng needs a competitive Airbus(it seems as if Boeng don't fully realise this yet).
And its a shame that some of you A's V B's out there don't either
No officer, its NOT a surface to air missile its a camera..for taking photographs.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:42 am

One funny example of Boeing's pettiness took place at the Farnborough airshow when Boeing got ticked off because Virgin Atlantic put the slogan "4 engines 4 long-haul on their A340-600s." No offense to Boeing fans but their PR have really deteriorated sine the 1990's.

How is that petty? Airbus makes the claim that four engines are safer for longhaul than two, but doesn't provide any factual data to back it up.

I think when one manufacturer uses fear or long accepted dogma as marketing material, the other manufacturer has every right to get upset.

How ironic indeed that Airbus, the self-proclaimed leading innovator in the commercial airplane industry, for some reason insists on stunting growth and innovation in the ETOPS segment.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
PilotDreams
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:53 am

I would have to agree with the people who claim that both companies need each other, but I'm wondering does anyone think that maybe Airbus is stretching their power a bit too much with the A380? I'm a fan of both companies but I just don't think the A380 is going to benefit Airbus at all in the long run. It only takes one "bad" airplane to make it the beginning of the end for an aircraft manufacturer.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 12:32 pm

First, Boeing sold 1832 727s, so Airbus won't surpass them until the 1833rd aircraft is delivered.

Not Technically, Airbus has sold more A320s than 727s. The amount delivered does not count, because you know jetBlue has alot more coming their way. So in essence, Airbus has outsold the 727.

What a shame, The 727 is such a beautiful aircraft, it's a shame more could not grace our skies
Puhdiddle
 
cfalk
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:49 pm

PilotDreams,

No problem, the European governments will quietly forgive the 4 billion or so Euros credit if the A380 doesn't work out, and probably give more if needed.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Squigee
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 1:32 am

Well, I for one am happy that Airbus is so excited their one trick pony has been given away to more people than a 40 year old pioneering aircraft. Good job- it sure is tough to beat an aircraft that's been out of production for decades.
Someday, we'll look back at this, laugh nervously, and then change the subject.
 
flyvs007
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:43 am

"How is that petty? Airbus makes the claim that four engines are safer for longhaul than two, but doesn't provide any factual data to back it up.

I think when one manufacturer uses fear or long accepted dogma as marketing material, the other manufacturer has every right to get upset."


Actually, that slogan of Virgin's applies to all their long-haul fleet, including their flagship 744's. It was Virgin, not Airbus, that put the slogan there.
 
N79969
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:54 am

The A380 will not put Airbus out of business if it fails...not even actual bankruptcy could put Airbus out of business. A little whine and wine in Paris and Berlin and the problem will be solved.

Boeing is guilty of being full of themselves as well. That's part of the reason many of its longtime customers defected to Airbus in recent years. Airbus has developed a reputation for good, responsive customer service.

 
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:14 am

Read and weep!!
Michael/SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
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PW100
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:28 am

Well, if I'm not mistaken, Boeing did sell 'only' 1831 27's. However 1832 were built, one protype was never sold...
At the time when Boeing ceased production of the 727 I thought that such a number [1832] would never ever be reached again. You would be taken to a madhouse just thinking of Airbus sales surpasing all other commercial manufactures combined!! Times have changed....

PW100
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:16 am


I prefer Boeing but Airbus seems to be doing a good job. The commonality that Airbus has through out it whole range of jet aircrafts is what makes it so good.

I have flown the 738 via BWIA on the Caribbean route and I think that it needs more cargo room as befoe the plane was fully loaded all over head bins were full but I gues that is how the airline gets it configured.

If boeing would look and see how it can bring fleet commonality from the 737 and the 777 that in the next 20 years boeing will be on a higher plat form than Airbus. It would also be nice if one could have RR, GE and PW engines for the single aisle aircraft right up to the 777.
Eagles Soar!
 
Skystar
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:03 am

Overhead bins aren't cargo room  Smile

Cargo goes into the belly of the aircraft - underneath where you sit! (unless there's a fuel tank there)
 
rabenschlag
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:11 am

~~Today I was looking at the Airbus website (even though I prefer Boeing)

boy, oh boy! you have been surfing airbus again despite you are in love with boeing? bad boy! make sure no one finds out youre cheating!
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:17 am

The United States had the commercial aircraft market entirely to itself decades ago, split among three manufacturers. When Airbus was formed in the 1970s, it was easy for this country to feel 'full of itself' as well, dismissing Airbus as a 'here today-gone tomorrow' entity. Of course, that never came to pass and the very fact that this conversation is even happening must be making old-timers squirm in their seats and the dearly-departed squirm in their graves. Who woulda thunk. Indeed, it is very sad that the ONE industry that we (the U.S.) could point to and call our own--commercial aircraft--is now a fight-for-every-order battle with Airbus. Indeed, having flown on the A300, the A319, the A320, the A321, and the A330 I can see why carriers like these aircraft. On the narrow-body fleet I like the slightly wider fuselage, the better windows, the nicer entertainment technology. And if I as a passenger can point to these 'creature comforts' with a big nod of approval, then surely the airlines take note and buy accordingly. Whether you are a pro-Boeing person or are on the other side of the fence, the bottom line is that competition this feverish really drives each manufacturer to better themselves and their products.

Chris in NH
 
GD727
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:48 am

I'll congratulate Airbus when they build an aircraft as sturdy and reliable as the 727, they haven't done it yet IMO.


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PW100
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RE: Airbus Full Of Themselves?

Sun Nov 03, 2002 11:21 pm

727LOVER
There were 1260 Boeing 727-200 built, NO SINGLE AIRCRAFT from either manufacturer has topped that 737-200 and 300 got close but no cigar! 757 is close as well

Well, I hate to bring you the news. . . , @ 30 Sept 2002 Airbus had delivered 1098 A320s [+ 472 A319s and 249 A321s] with another 511 [!] on order [+ 262 A319s and 167 A321s]. So don't hold your breath on that 727-200 record of 1260. By 2003 or early 2004 the cigar will go to the A320!

PW100
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"

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