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Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:55 pm

OK, everyone, stop spazzing out, United is not dying out, just doing a little house cleaning with the help of Chapter 11. I know the success record is not good (Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, TWA, National), but United will pull through it.

Why Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, etc. didn't make it:
Before Chapter 11, they sold off prized routes, airplanes, all sorts of assets, so once Chapter 11 was filed, there was nothing left to help the airline through it.

Why United can make it:
We haven't had a mass sale of assets as of yet, we have over 2 billion dollars in DIP financing lined up (banks in Chicago were eager to help us out). The City of Chicago, State of Illinois, City of Denver, State of Colorado, have all expressed their willingness to help, and our longtime partner Lufthansa may come to help as well, in addition to other Star Alliance partners (maybe).

I have been around United Airlines my entire life...I could shock you with the intimate details I'm privy to. Half the high schoolers on this forum try to predict our demise...but it will not happen. 3 years ago, we were the biggest and most powerful airline on Earth...and we will be again someday.

U N I T ED ... Come fly our Friendly Skies
 
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:03 pm

I agree 150%. UNITED will stand. CH. 11 is not necessarily a bad thing. It is like a 'spring' cleaning with a fresh start. Chicago, the state of Illinois, Denver, the state of Colorado, LH, and Star Alliance wouldn't mind putting together a package to keep UAL a float. You could easily have a tax referendum on the ballots in Colorado and Illinois to have taxpayers vote weather to pass a tax to save UAL.

BTW none of us in here are lawyers (I know of one lawyer on airliners.net from Texas thats it) so don't act like 'Bankruptcy' experts.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:06 pm

So were Pan Am and TWA a couple of the biggest most powerful airlines on earth.

I don't think United will totally disappear right away either, but I think they are history repeating itself with Pan Am. The bank is going to own a lot of their most valuable assets or else they are going to sell off some routes, planes to airlines to make ends meet. They will survive as a much smaller airline for a while, but if another situation comes up with United they won't survive a second hit like Pan Am did.

Or they could luck out and wind up like Continental.
 
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STT757
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:07 pm

Eastern didn't sell anything untill they filed for bankruptcy , the Shuttle, System One, Latin America etc all came after the shut down and bankruptcy.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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B747-437B
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:08 pm

CH. 11 is not necessarily a bad thing. It is like a 'spring' cleaning with a fresh start.

Don't kid yourself. Chapter 11 is BANKRUPTCY. Your debt ratings are shot to hell and you can give up hope of ever floating bonds for the next decade.

You could easily have a tax referendum on the ballots in Colorado and Illinois to have taxpayers vote weather to pass a tax to save UAL.

Sure. And like the ATSB it would probably be rejected.

BTW none of us in here are lawyers so don't act like 'Bankruptcy' experts.

Some of us here are actually experienced with dealing with the intimacies of airline bankruptcies, so we do know what happens. Of course, its a lot easier to sit back in your cozy dorm room and say "Don't worry, U N I T E D will be fine" than to face the reality that this is most likely the end of UAL as you know it.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:10 pm

The fact that UA still has the lucrative access to LHR and NRT--not to mention the lucrative transpacific routes in general--means that most of UA's trimming will be from domestic operations.

UA will most likely park or sell off about 50% of their 747-400 fleet but UA will definitely NOT part with the 777-200ER fleet.

The thing that killed Pan Am and TWA was the fact they stupidly sold off lucrative routes that could have saved the airline. One still wonders why Pan Am sold off its Pacific Division to UA when that part of Pan Am was very profitable indeed; even now a large fraction of UA's revenues come from transpacific flying.
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:12 pm

Well said, hope UAL pulls through quickly.

-Dmitry
 
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STT757
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:16 pm

If the Federeal Gov't didn't provide UAL with the loan Gurantee why on earth would States like Colorado and Illinois (who are facing the same hardships other states are with lower tax revenues due to the three year economic downturn) provide any kind of substanstial economic assistance to an ailing company.

And I have a real hard time believing they would even consider having a referendum on a bail out, especially in Illinois where AA has just as strong of an influence.

No State right now is going to offer any kind of financial help when they are laying off State employees, if the States start giving out corporate welfare checks thus rewarding bad management where does it end?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
artsyman
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:17 pm

The fact that UA still has the lucrative access to LHR and NRT

I keep seeing this, LHR is stating the obvious, but Northwest, AA, Continental all fly to Narita, and Delta did too or still do and are planning on dropping it. Narita is not the monopoly that LHR is

Jeremy
 
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:17 pm

I like my 'cozy' dorm room Sean  Smile lol

Seriously, I do have to say that you are more than qualified to handle airline Bankruptcies. I am talking about some of the other so called 'experts' in here
 
Dash8King
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:20 pm

Well said B747-437B, well said.
 
Big777jet
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:21 pm

UAL1837~

What does that mean spazzing ?  Confused You mentioned "OK, everyone, stop spazzing out" I could not find any of dictionary or college webster. Maybe slang or new word? Can anyone explain to me what's this meaning?

Thanks,

Big777jet

 
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:22 pm

STT757, you have real good points as well. The reason why Illinois/Colorado might consider a referendum is to protect the employment of some of the state's residents. Illinois and Colorado get a lot of money from United like 1837 said they might move to protect a large part of the state economy. I Didn't think about AA and Illinois though.
 
gigneil
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:22 pm

Sure. And like the ATSB it would probably be rejected.

Heh yeah. But no.

The City and County of Denver and the State of Colorado's economic engines are based on United Airlines. The Denver Post has pointed this out several times. Its a symbiosis. Denver cannot survive without UA or a suitable replacement.

I think people underestimate Denver as a whole... Companies move here because Denver has a superpowerful transportation system, great weather, lots of nice outdoors things, and a huge high tech base. Without United, the many large companies that have moved here because of it will leave, or at least be inconvenienced.

The ATSB is a political engine. The taxpayers are not. And the taxpayers need United to be here for their own well being.

N
 
Dash8King
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:24 pm

"Denver cannot survive without UA or a suitable replacement." I think Denver will pull through without UA.
 
gigneil
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:29 pm

"Denver cannot survive without UA or a suitable replacement." I think Denver will pull through without UA.

Maybe it will... but I bet the strong economic growth the Rocky Mountain region has been showing, even despite the overall downturn in the economy, will cease.

N
 
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STT757
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:34 pm

I LOVE EWR,

Like I said UAL has been running themselves into the ground for years, they have terrible labor problems and no strong leadership. The ATSB turned them down, if the State of Colorado planned on giving UAL any kind of help they would have mentioned it earlier so UAL could have included it in their application to the ATSB.

By the way I love EWR too.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
gigneil
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:42 pm

Just like the ATSB and US Airways, I'm sure the State of Colorado realizes that UA needs a bit of heavy handed reorganization before they shell any money out.

N
 
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:44 pm

STT..you went to Monmouth right? How is their B-Ball team this year?

Anyway, I have seen your posts and I agree with a lot of what you say. You know what you are talking about. Who knows what will happen with Colorado/Illinois and UAL? Maybe Colorado thought the ATSB would not reject UALs application. You work for the state right? You know that if UAL can get a hold of someone in power anything is possible

BTW give me an email if you get the chance. If you want I can get some good RU B-Ball tickets if interested
 
gigneil
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:49 pm

I'm enjoying all this tonight! I've been really bored today.

Artysman says... Narita is not the monopoly that LHR is

No. It isn't. What is, and people fail to discuss this so far, is China.

UA is one of three carriers that serves China from the US, the others being NW and FedEx.

UA has an impressive route structure from Tokyo, and Tokyo is a very slot restricted airport. UA has tons of slots, to tons of high dollar value places. Anyone who gets those slots from them (if I had to want someone, I'd want it to be DL) will be sitting pretty.

Was interested to see in the "timeline" that UA offered their LHR, all their Pacific, and their Latin American routes as collateral for the ATSB loan and they deemed that insufficient. Morons.

N
 
AA717driver
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:53 pm

Let's remember, once UAL files, the creditor's committee runs the company with the approval of the judge. If selling LHR is necessary to pay off the Germans, it will be sold.

Bankruptcy is like prison, not a house cleaning.TC
FL450, M.85
 
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STT757
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:59 pm

I LOVE EWR,

They're ok this year (they went to the big dance twice when I was there) but they recently lost a heart breaker to Princeton (who's always good) at the buzzer.

I was going to the Blounstein School for Urban Planning untill recently but I decided it wasn't for me so Im working for the Department of Labor in Downtown Newark. Im either going to take a Special Ed teaching job in NYC or try to get into Rutgers Newark Law school, I also took the Port Authority Police test.

If I could get the PA Police job I would be in heaven, because I love transportation especially rail roads and aviation. And I've read and studied the Port Authority quite alot, so Im praying I get that job.

Send me an E-mail some time, Im not too far from New Brunswick in Manalapan.

[email protected]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
artsyman
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:08 pm

UA is one of three carriers that serves China from the US, the others being NW and FedEx

Last time I checked Hong Kong is China, and Continental flies there direct from EWR.

Jeremy
(I also love EWR, but my girlfriend hates it more than life itself)
 
gigneil
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:15 pm

Mainland China... not the Hong Kong SAR. Hong Kong is for practical purposes its own sovereignty, as it has its own government and China has taken a very hands-off approach to it.
It has its own air services agreement with the US, which has nothing to do with other Chinese airports or the official position of the Chinese government.

They have to. The people that live there are capitalists. It'd be another Taiwan if they didn't.

Mainland China being Shanghai, Bejing, et al.

N
 
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:17 pm

All I can say is......... Let's hope UAL can make it.

 
azjubilee
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:17 pm

Artsyman - I believe he was referring to route authorities to PEK and SHA.

747-437 - thanks for returning a bit of sanity and intelligence to this website.

AA717driver hit the nail on the head... once in bankruptcy, the court is running the show. If they believe UA must shed certain asetts and route authorities - then UA will have to comply. The sharks are already planning their next meal. Who bites and who swallows is in the future, and time, will tell.

Bankruptcy is an awful thing and one that should be taken seriously. Of course, being serious, educated and though provoling is futile on this website for many people.



AZJ
 
Guest

RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:23 pm

A list of things that United management should worry about in bankruptcy:

1) If United management tries to reduce the fixed fee it pays per departure to each of its regional affiliates, there is the possibility that two affiliates (i.e., ACA and Skywest) could take their regional jets elsewhere. Where would they go? ACA and Skywest are also Delta connection carriers. Delta could sabotage United in bankruptcy by increasing the number of regional jets that each of these carriers operate under the Delta Connection brand.

2) If United management goes to Boeing who is sitting on $1.3 billion of loans to United and asks to reduce that debt, Boeing could simply take back all the 777's financed by those loans. Why would it do that? There are healthier airlines out there who might be looking to purchase a 777 at a higher price than United would be willing to pay in bankruptcy. Qantas is always looking for planes on the cheap. That is how they ended up with some of AA's 737's and the A330's. Cathay is another possible customer. And, there is Delta again. Boeing could make them a deal they can't refuse. Why would Boeing sabotage United? Payback for the Airbus's and the conclusion that Boeing is better served by placing the planes with more Boeing-friendly customers.

3) If United cuts capacity at LAX, there is the risk that AA would seize the advantage to bulk up its domestic service. In fact, United faces a quadruple threat at LAX. If the Australasia routes are consolidated at SFO, Qantas will grow stronger at LAX and so will AA who carries many Qantas passengers on connecting flights. If United consolidates Tokyo flights at SFO, both JAL and AA might seize the opportunity. AA enters the market next April. If United under bankruptcy can't restore the LAX-HKG flight and must consolidate HKG flights at SFO, Cathay will only grow stronger at LAX and elsewhere (e.g., ORD) and so will AA since approval of its codeshare agreement with Cathay is now a mere formality. And finally, if United cuts any transcon service from LAX, particularly to IAD, Boston, or JFK, AA will only grow stronger, particularly at JFK. Even Delta could see an opportunity to renew its plans to be a more viable transcon airline.

4) As bankruptcy forces United to cut flights at non-core hubs and gateways, United's position at JFK is only going to become more precarious. With AA picking up more marketshare on transcon routes, there is a real possibility that the viability of United's JFK-LHR routes will diminish even further. Isn't ironic how United's problems are again providing cover for AA to get something it wants, the right to codeshare with BA on flights beyond LHR? Those codeshare rights will only make AA's JFK-LHR franchise stronger. The completion of the new AA terminal was supposed to provide the death blow, but United may virtually disappear from JFK even before then.

United's domestic competitors will probably wait before making any moves to jeopardize United's restructuring. Unfortunately, United isn't going to get any reprieve from its international competitors, particularly those in the Pacific. Qantas has already announced that it will be flying three times a week to Chicago via LAX. Why Chicago? Because they would rather put the hurt to United at Chicago than American at DFW? We will have to wait and see what Northwest and JAL will do, both on routes to Narita and on routes connecting in Narita to Asian points beyond. In a few months, however, Cathay initiates JFK to HKG service. Could ORD-HKG service be next? AA might have reserved this route for itself. And if it can get the pilots to sign a letter of agreement for the block hours on this flight, it might just initiate the service itself. Or, it could see the longterm strategic value of allowing Cathay to serve the route temporarily.

The long and short of it is that United's competitors, specifically its foreign competitors, are not going to make it easy for United to retain its far flung international operations. Because many of those competitors just happen to cooperate with AA in one form or another, the challenges only shift to the domestic arena after United decides to make the hard choices. Double jeopardy. That should give United a lot to worry about.
 
artsyman
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:26 pm

I remember at Continental before 9.11, there was talko of flying to Peking, I don't know if they hadnt started due to lack of slots, or due to lack of confidence in that route. Are Continental Micronesia allowed to fly there ?, I do know you can get to Mainland China on Onepass carriers

 
Early Air
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:40 pm

Very well stated.

Rgds,
Early Air
 
gigneil
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:45 pm

Artysman

A lot of carriers applied for routes to China when the DOT and China agreed on 10 more slots. DL, AA, and CO all did in 2000 or early 2001, I don't remember which. But they were all rejected.

Unless UPS got some then, which they may have, the only carriers that fly there are UA, NW, and FedEx.

Ladevale-

I think Boeing might disagree with you. UA is a priceless customer to Boeing. They have 65 777s. I sincerely doubt that any domestic US carrier can jump in and buy all 65 of them. It would cause such depression in the market that they might not be able to sell a new 777 for quite a while. And if Boeing forsakes UA now, and UA _does_ emerge from Chap 11 a stronger healthier carrier, then you better believe they'll return the favor with a vengeful buildup of Airbus aircraft. I don't think UA's partners are going to get into childish "payback" routines.

Others-

Once UA is in bankruptcy it will be the creditors in charge, with the court's backing, not just the court. All the creditors UA has lined up to provide them financing are close friends to the company. They will consolidate the debt from other creditors, then they will be in a position to improve the status of their new investment. People need to review the list of creditors UA lined up, and remember that UA was TURNING AWAY other sources of DIP financing because of the less favorable terms.

Bank One, in particular, will not let anything bad happen.

N

My toe has finally stopped bleeding!
 
Big777jet
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:03 pm

After 18 posted why wouldn't you ingore my question? I just can't believe this! Will you explain it to me? What does this meaning "spazzing"?

Thanks,

Big777jet

PS - I am not stupid person. I'm deaf and I could not hear everything! Think about it yourself.


 
gigneil
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:07 pm

Spaz is a slang abbreviation of "acting spastically".

A more common way of saying it might have been "freaking out" instead of spazzing out.

Does that help?

N
 
Big777jet
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:10 pm

Thank you very much Gigneil!  Big thumbs up

Big777jet

 
NBC News1
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:55 pm

I would love to see United go. Only because I have an immature hate for the airline...I just love AA and UA is a competitor.

GO AWAY UA!
 
cfm-56
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:04 pm

just heard on the radio they will get private funding 1,5 bn $. So I guess they can start concentrating on business.
 
gigneil
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:24 pm

Private bankruptcy funding... not just cash to spend. Still could suck.

N
 
cloudy
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:26 pm

For the umpteenth time the above mentioned airlines did not sell their most money making assets because they wanted to - they were FORCED to do so by circumstances. People pay real money only for what makes money. United can get no real cash by selling old-generation 737's right now. They can get cash by selling Heathrow rights or B-market 777's.

Also for the umpteenth time....In bankruptcy, the court and creditors control what gets sold, not the management. Having significant assets may actually HURT United. How so? By giving the debtor-in-possession financiers an attractive financial alternative to an equity stake in a revived carrier. If there are few significant assets - the name and market position is all that you have left and the creditors can only make money from that if the airline keeps operating. But those Heathrow slots, Asian routes, etc. can feed a vulture just as well as an angel. If the DIP creditors think letting the airline operate is fruitless, they can recover money by selling these. Heck, they may be even planning to do so and make a profit in the process.

Bottom line - significant assets may make it easier to get DIP financing and survive the immediate aftermath of C-11. But they may make it harder for the airline to survive long term because they give creditors a possible alternative means to recover at least some of their money - whether the airline survives or not.
 
9844
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:36 pm

CLOUDY Is right...Banks are not your friends. The interest rates these guys charge.. My brother Vito gives better deals.. I look for United to sell of the prized assets first... Bottom line guys and gals "DIP financing" is the beginning of a slow bleed....United missed its flight..This stuff should have been done years ago..At this very minute United is still loosing 7 million a day..
 
BestWestern
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:49 pm

The 777's are UA's real assets, alongside their LHR and NRT slots.

UA know that the days of restricted access at LHR are numbered, and their duopoly rights have a finite life span.... They should sell right, and wait for Star Alliance partner BMI to commence routes ex London on behalf of UA.

How about this Scenario. DL could acquire UA's LHR access, and four of UA's 777's. Then they could link LHR to ATL, BOS, NYC, LAX and DFW.

Star Alliance is looking tarnished these days, with United and Ansett in bankruptcy, and Air New Zealand on the verge of moving over to OneWorld.

Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Greg
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:33 am

Nothing to worry about?

How about the tens of thousands that lost their equity in the stock--including the 'employee owner's'? Or the businesses that will never see a dime that is owed them. I don't think they share your simplistic view.

Your comments reflect immaturity. Take an economics course.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:37 am

I agree w/ you UAL 1837, UA will be just fine.

When EA and PanAM Went under they had already striped themselves down to the bones. PanAM especially was a shadow of its former glory when it finally died. Continental emerged from bankruptcy and they had HALF of the assets UA does according to the AP article on the Filing.

"United's filing dwarfs all other airline bankruptcies. The previous largest was by Continental Airlines in 1990. United listed almost $25.4 billion in assets as of Sept. 30 - more than twice Continental's when it filed."

See this link
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/business/4696636.htm


This is going to be hard. I may not be around to see it. But UA will pull through. They have a good leadership team now.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
AerLingus
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:44 am

Let us not forget about San Francisco. United currently operates about 51% of flights out of San Francisco and the airport is an important maintenance and cargo centre for the airline.

The San Francisco International Airport spokesman said the airport has heard personally from Gordon Bethune of Continental Airlines that he is highly interested in SFO's resources.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
N79969
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:56 am

Bankruptcy is like a career-threatening/ending injury in sports. Things will probably be never the same again.
 
SAS-A321
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:36 am

Go United Go! You can make it!  Big thumbs up
It's Scandinavian
 
[email protected]
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:38 am

I sincerely hope United makes it through. We're not talking about some medium sized airline, we are talking about the second largest and one of the world's most important carriers. Chap 11 is a serious situation, but there's still hope.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
Guest

RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:43 am

It's really interesting that everyone likes to think UA will be the next Braniff, Pan Am, or Eastern.

No one ever think about United can be the 2nd Continental, which is flying high now after some tough times in mid-90s.

I think United will ended up like Continental, flying high again in the future.
 
EVA744
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RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:56 am

Gigneil (and others)--
Hong Kong is no longer a "special" region in China. The "2 systems: 1 government" plan is being phased out. China is, and has already started to, reincorporate it back into its governing system. For those of you not up on current events the world over, here is a helpful link to bring you up to speed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2077589.stm. This was as of July. There are more recent events as well. So access to Hong Kong and Mainland China are right now, 2 different things, but give it a few years and it will all be the same. Hong Kong cannot keep up the fight against a Chinese Government that is seeking to rid Foreign ownership of many businesses which take the money out of China-- the goal is to keep the money in China and reinvest it. Hong Kong operating as a separate entity will come to an end. The Chinese will not stand for a foreign enclave of such power for very much longer.
Thanks
EVA744
 
hmflyer
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2001 9:38 am

RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:09 am

"Don't worry about United" and "bankruptcy is just a little housecleaning". These quotes are symptomatic of someone who is dillusional. Bankruptcy is a very disruptive process, witness are the effort that went into UAL staying out of bankruptcy. Those quotes are also symptomatic of the attitude that got UAL in the predicament they are in.

As Gordon Bethune said "Ual is not too big to fail, they will just make a bigger hole in the ground!"
 
Guest

RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:14 am

the old saying: bankruptcy = forgivness

 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Don't Worry About U N I T E D

Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:19 am

There is far more historical evidence to support United's liquidation than its' survival. That's hardly a surprise.

While surely hopefull it will pull through it's current crises, it will not be UAL as we currently know it. Clearly a divestiture of planes, routes, employees, and facilities WILL occur--that's part of the bankruptcy process. A judge will make those decisions based on the overall needs of creditors and guarantors.

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