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LHMark
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Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:19 pm

From the Wednesday, Dec. 18 Democrat and Chronicle

In another security-related move, [Airport Director] Slaybaugh said the county is pressing ahead with a radcal redesign of the terminal that would result in a new central security checkpoint.

That move, part of a $6 million renovation project, would close off the main part of the terminal to all but ticketed passengers.

At present, visitors are allowed to roam the central terminal with its shops, artwork, and vast windows overlooking the airfield. People without tickets are restricted only from entering the two wings where passengers board aircraft.

By late next fall, the county intends to build a single security checkpoint in the center corridor leading from the front of the terminal to the rear. The two side corridors would become exits for deplaning passengers.

People without tickets would have to stay in the portion of the terminal near the airline ticket counters.


Gee whiz. I feel safer than ever.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:32 pm

shops, artwork, and vast windows overlooking the airfield

Who gives a $hit about these things anyways? They are only peoples jobs, and their hobbies. I'm sure Al-Quesadia members like to shop and check out the local artwork scene before they cause mayhem.
 
zrb2
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:37 pm

Given the way security is going it doesn't seem out of line, but really it is window-dressing. They obviously want to give an appearance of a "more secured" airport. I haven't been inside the modernized ROC airport but I know at BUF the layout is already spotter unfriendly unless you are a passenger. Non-passengers can only walk by the ticket counters and baggage claim. It was like that even before the New security rules. [Don't they realize that some non-passengers just want a big pane of unobstructed glass and a great view to watch the action on the field? geez!]
As I've said all along, the problem with this wave of terrorism is that if someone is willing to die in order to kill innocent people at an airport, it will be very hard (if not impossible) to stop them unless they search everybody even entering the airport.

 
727LOVER
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:50 pm

Can you still stand outside by the DL gates and watch? Can you still sit in your car in the parking lot and watch as the planes come over for landing?

Keep in mind, I haven't been there since 1993, so my memory is vague.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
LHMark
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:06 am

It isn't a question of spotting. What if you're waiting to pick someone up on a delayed flight? You won't even be able to get a burger. There are, like, seven seats in the ticket counter area, so I hope the renovation includes subway-style grip straps.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Guest

RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:12 am

I hope people stop using the argument "But I won't be able to look at airplanes!" as it's invalid.
 
LHMark
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:19 am

The point is that all the people-holding capacity at ROC is within the area that they're going to close off, ostensibly to eliminate congestion at security. At peak times, with lines extending beyond the ropes at each airline counter, with a huge security line (there are curently two lines) in the middle, the place is going to become an amenity-free mess.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Guest

RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:22 am

A larger combined checkpoint will cause the lines to be no longer than the are now. Many other airports have done this same thing... it'll probably be reversed once the businesses complain they are losing money so don't worry about it. Jacksonville left it like this for awhile (this is how it always was before Sept 11th) now moved it to the concourses (which has made a huge mess of security, huge lines, cramped lanes, lots of congestion) because the food court and shops almost went out of business due to less revenue.
 
avroarrow
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:33 am

A large majority of Canadian airports are like this and have been for years. You just have to get creative and find other ways. Spotting through glass sucks anyway, much better to get the clear sight, sounds and smells of open air spotting if you can. Just my opinion though.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
707guy
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:48 am

CLE has been like that since early November. Non-ticketed folks are stuck waiting in the ticket counter area for anyone arriving. I believe these moves are more motivated by revenue than anything else. Since the concourses were closed to ticketed passengers only, the shops and food vendors outside the secured areas were loosing money. With the long lines at checkpoints most passengers wanted to clear security first and then get something to eat, drink, or read. I don't really see an additional security advantage to closing off the majority of the terminal. If preventing an LAX type of incident is the goal then the entire terminal should be closed off and the checkpoints should be at the doors. I'm sure it will be years until all the issues of increased security and public access are resolved.
 
LHMark
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:58 am

Well shit. They could take it farther. Just have all the ticket counters at a downtown satellite "transit mall" and drive the passengers to and from a barbed wire-enclosed terminal on shuttle busses.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
ouboy79
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:54 am

I've become very open to the idea 707guy alluded to. Screen EVERYONE at the doors. Passengers, Employees, Non-Pax, etc. With the over abundance of TSA staff on hand now that just sit around and talk for 3-4 hours a time before they have to screen anyone (while getting paid for it)...there should be no problem have ample staff to screen everyone and re-open the entire terminal to people again. Some airports will work better than others - smaller regional airports would be suited best. The chances then of LAX happenings again or an employee going postal will be almost nil.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 4:44 am

A larger combined checkpoint will cause the lines to be no longer than the are now. Many other airports have done this same thing... it'll probably be reversed once the businesses complain they are losing money so don't worry about it.

This is what I think will happen. The trouble is, that Monroe County plans to spend $6 million of taxpayer money to find it out. If the county wants bigger security areas, they would do much better to widen the "throat" area of each concourse. That's the narrow area between the rotunda and gate areas where security is now. That would also be considerably less disruptive to airport operations and less involved than ripping out escalators, restrooms, and shops in the middle of the terminal.

Another part of the article notes that some of this money will go towards adding elevators and escalators in gate areas, to improve handicapped access to regional aircraft that can't use jetways. I"ll be curious to see where these are installed.

Continental, United, Northwest and US Airways are the only airlines left at ROC that fly regional aircraft that don't use existing jetways. Most of these aircraft, I think, could be accomodated with jetways and the disabled afforded the same indoor boarding comfort as everyone else.

US's DeHavillands use jetways at PHL's terminal F, perhaps some of those jetways could be installed at ROC. NW's CRJ's don't use the jetway, but they are jetway-capable. Only Continental's B1900's, which park remotely anyway, and United's Jetstreams are really jetway-incompatible. Their passengers would benefit most from such improvements.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
tpk
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 4:46 am

Why not just position a screener at everyone's front door. That would really make sure every area is secure.

Better yet, don't let anyone leave their houses.

 
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N2111J
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 5:19 am

I agree that this is basically a "feel good" approach, without any real benefit. However, the article did go on to say that the western wall of the terminal would be rebuilt with large windows for observing takeoffs and landings. Time will tell if you'll have any decent views from there, but it's better than nothing.

Mike
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:49 am

This same problem occured at the new DTW WorldGateway. Since it was designed in a pre-9/11 era, the checkpoints were placed at the ticket counters. There are no ammenities outside security. The only access people have for to drop off or meet people is in the ticket lobby and baggage claim. There is one set of bathrooms and a bank of pay phones. No stores, no restaurant, or anything. You can't get a single thing to eat or even a newspaper outside security. Many of the airport vendors complained, and several broke their contract and dropped out of the airport due to a perceived lack of revenue. DTW wishes the checkpoints were farther back with more ammenties outside security.

Now, I don't really know why ROC would want to do this, I've never actually been there. Its all been said before, you can only extend the perimeter so far, and this obviously won't be more effective. Maybe this is because of a lack of space at the existing checkpoints.
 
gkirk
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:56 am

Fraid to say, but thats the correct way for ROC to go. European Airports have been like that for years, and I feel very safe flying through them.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
b757300
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:23 am

Wow, that will keep terrorists out for sure. /sarcasm.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:51 am

After the bombing of Air India in 1985, the international check-in in Toronto was put on the sterile side of the terminal. Without a ticket, nobody goes anywhere at Pearson. Even the baggage claim area has been sterile for as long as I have lived here (since 1975). Years later, even the clear glass windows of the baggage claim areas were made opaque so as to not be able to see who is arrived and claiming their luggage. What that achieves, I do not know.

So guys, take heart. In Toronto, our airport has never been spotter friendly from within. But YYZ is still a spotter's mecca in Canada, from without.

Almost all the spotting is done off of airport property. The only exception was the T1 parking garage that had a great view. It's still there. But it was scheduled for demolition long before 9/11.

I don't know if this is still the case, but I remember that at Tampa International, the public could go right up to the gate to great their guests as they stepped off the plane. There was no sterile area at arrivals. I found that amazing. So in the US, consider yourselves having lived a charmed life. We could never have done that in Canada at anytime.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
SophieMaltese
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RE: Say Goodbye To Observation At ROC.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:52 am

I am sad to hear this. I love that airport. You can sit in a rocking chair and look at the planes out of huge windows.

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