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prosa
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Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 pm

Look at it this way. The SAN designation would be somehow more prestigious than SFO. By all rights, San Francisco should be SAN because it is (and was, when airport codes were developed) a much larger and more important city than San Diego. Yet San Diego gets the SAN while San Francisco gets SFO. Seems odd.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:21 pm

oh good grief....

Tallahassee is a much more important city than.. well.. whoever got TAL. We should have TAL, not TLH! It's injustice i tell you!

We need to sue! Sue the bastards!
Chicks dig winglets.
 
BA
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:28 pm

Not really.

SFO matches San Francisco very well.

After all, it's not just "San". It's San Francisco.

San Diego would have been better if it were SDG or SDO or something.

But does it really matter? Airport codes really don't mean all that much. Some airport codes are not similar at all to there city names.

Good example is Orlando which is MCO.

MCO came from Mccoy's Air Base when the airport was still an air force base.

But still, the point is it doesn't matter what name it gets.

I mean, there are FAT airport codes and well it SUX, but it doesn't really matter.  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

(FAT = Fresno, California; SUX = Sioux City, Iowa) Big grin

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:29 pm

No San Angelo, Texas should have SAN, instead of SJT, they had the first Air Conditioned Theatre in the USA in the Early 20's  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Ciao and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
TommyBoy
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:30 pm

...actually...San Francisco should be...GAY!
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:33 pm

WOO HOO! GO GAY!

N
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:36 pm

PROSA-

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your facts are woefully inaccurate.

San Diego's population (2000 census): 1,250,714

San Francisco's population (2000 census): 776,773

Which means San Diego is nearly TWICE the size of San Francisco.

And don't even try to say it's bigger based on area; San Diego covers 342.4 square miles compared to a paltry 46.7 square miles for San Francisco.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
serge
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:38 pm

Hmmm...

FlightID: ABC123
Status: NOT YET ENROUTE
Filed With: KZMP - Minneapolis, MN
Equipment: C152
Proposed Departure Time: 10:01:00 PM
Departing: SUX SIOUX CITY
Destination: DIK DICKINSON MUNI
Route of Flight: SUX...DIK
ETA: 0506
Speed: 070
Altitude: 075

 Big grin
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:39 pm

Yeah Detroit Metro should be DET instead of Detroit City.
 
prosa
Topic Author
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:40 pm

PROSA-
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your facts are woefully inaccurate.
San Diego's population (2000 census): 1,250,714
San Francisco's population (2000 census): 776,773
Which means San Diego is nearly TWICE the size of San Francisco.
And don't even try to say it's bigger based on area; San Diego covers 342.4 square miles compared to a paltry 46.7 square miles for San Francisco.


You're just looking at the areas within city limits. It is more accurate to compare metropolitan areas, and in that case San Francisco's far bigger.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
BA
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:50 pm

EA CO AS,

You're looking at the city only. You have to look at the metro which has slightly above 8 million people. That greatly beats San Diego.

Another good example is Denver. As a city, it only has 570,000 people. But it's metro is 2.7 million people.

Cities these days are mostly made up by there suburbs.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
strickerje
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:50 pm

This data sounds like just the inner city, whereas it's usually the entire metropolitan area that's counted.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau in October 2000, the metro population of San Diego is 2,820,844, and the metro population of San Francisco is 6,873,645. That's a significant difference from the population of the inner city alone. Where'd you get data that excludes the metro area, anyway? I've looked all over and haven't found it.
 
concorde1518
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:50 pm

I had always heard that it was SFO for San Francisco/Oakland. but I really have no fact to back it up, and it seems a bit odd, given OAK across the bay..
 Smile
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:55 pm

Go to census.gov website and you can see all the numbers, or if you have World Almanac, books like that.

THe Five Biggest city proper numbers NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, and Philly are different than the whole metros. There is a big arguement in the census right now on CMSA designations versus, MSA, and how and when to combine the areas.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
strickerje
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:55 pm

Wow... 5 more replies within only about 10 minutes. Looks like several other people beat me to it, so the double - er, triple post wasn't necessary.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:10 pm

I had always heard that it was SFO for San Francisco/Oakland. but I really have no fact to back it up, and it seems a bit odd, given OAK across the bay..

A lot of cities contain such all-inclusive city codes: MIA, CHI, PAR, LON, NYC, WAS, DAL, HOU, etc
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ILOVEA340
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:17 pm

Where do we draw the lines for the Metro San Francisco. I'm in Palo Alto and can connect far better to San Jose (bigger than San Francisco) than to SF. Also oakland is on the east bay (also bigger than San Francisco). I'm just curious. You can really only call SF metro south to maybe San Mateo which would include San Bruno, Burlingame, Foster City, Milbrae, Colma, Daily City, Pacifica, and South San Francisco. I bet it would still be smaller than the SAn Diego metro area. (Adding Marin, and tiburon is a stretch as there is quite a bit of water between them and SF.

anyways..........  Smile
 
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johnboy
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:55 pm

Oh well, fewer people in SF, but oh my....what a difference in cities.

Really no comparison.
 
777boy
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:18 am

Living near SFO, I actually prefer that its SFO and not SAN. When typing SAN into some trave search engines (such as Yahoo travel's hotel search) its brings up this list asking if you want San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, San Juan, etc. Typing in SFO always gives San Francisco.

Same thing with Las Vegas. I think it would have been better to code it LVS or something because LAS could be any number of Las ***'s.

Doing this "logical naming," is just like naming one of the New York airport NEW. We don't want that, do we?

Matt
 
Rick767
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:31 am

If you think that's injustice, I've always wondered why the Greek Island of Kos is KGS and the Indian resort of Goa is GOI

I mean... they only had 3 letters to play with in the first place!!

Incidentally, "GOA" is Genoa in Italy and "KOS" does not seem to exist as an airport code.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:58 am

You may perceive this as an even bigger injustice, but KOS is Sihanoukville, Cambodia.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
sabena_A340
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:46 am

I think that SFO is fair like New York is NYC and not NEW...
 
LFutia
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:57 am

I think Newark should have been NWK instead of EWR

Leo/ORD
Leo/ORD
 
LPL
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:16 am

What's the 'X' for in LAX?
 
Rick767
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:31 am

I find X is added at the end where they either can't think of a third character or there isn't a sensible one available (e.g. BHX = Birmingham, UK).

Anyone know any better?

"but KOS is Sihanoukville, Cambodia"

Also known as Kompongsom, so not totally unjustifiable!!!

I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:32 am

>>>I think Newark should have been NWK instead of EWR

Nope, N was reserved for the Navy at that time. (W and K were not allocated due to the radio stations´ abbreviations.)

>>>What's the 'X' for in LAX?

Nothing. It was added at random to the existing LA code when one switched from two to three letters.

Daniel Smile
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:58 am

Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Because SAN DIEGO, LINDBERGH FIELD IS SAN!

 Big grin
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
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seb146
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:38 am

"It was added at random to the existing LA code when one switched from two to three letters"

So, the existing code for Portland, OR was PD? Our code now is PDX. And what is up with numbers in some of the codes? Vista Field Kennewick WA is S98 and Vashon Island Municipal is 2S1.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:21 am

I found this article
http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html
that said that many of the codes started out as a 2 letter abbreviation for the city or weather station. If so then SFO probably started out as SF. When 3 letters came into use the O was probably added, much as LA would have gone to LAX. So SFO could have ended up SFX! The reason for the O instead of an X is something to figure out.

Now where SAN got started, who knows!! Any SAN history buffs know?
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
varig_dc10
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 5:44 am

Can anybody explain where Teesside (UK) got MME from?

varig_dc10
 
prosa
Topic Author
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:52 am

I found this article
http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html
that said that many of the codes started out as a 2 letter abbreviation for the city or weather station. If so then SFO probably started out as SF. When 3 letters came into use the O was probably added, much as LA would have gone to LAX. So SFO could have ended up SFX! The reason for the O instead of an X is something to figure out.


Interesting article, thanks for posting it. I got quite a laugh out of CMH's origin - Columbus Municipal Hangar, really!
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
UN_B732
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:03 am

Sheesh! Why is BTV Burlington,VT????????????????? Instead of being BUR or BVT.

-AG.
Transaero Boeing 737-200
What now?
 
deltairlines
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:34 am

Burlington's makes some sense: BurlingTon, Vermont. It seems to me that the B, T, and V are the most pronounced letters while saying the name.

Jeff
 
flyf15
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:40 am

BUR is Burbank, CA.  Big thumbs up

I am curious though, whats up with airport codes that have numbers in them? The 3 airports I most often fly out of are 2V2, 1V5, and 48V.
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:51 am

Yes but San Diego is so close to the LA/Orange County areas you could almost consider that one Huge Metro area. With Damn near all city driving between them the 95 miles from LA.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
Guest

RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:52 am

There are so many airports in the US, that all the possible 3 letter combos have been used up, so they have to use numbers as well.
 
prosa
Topic Author
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:53 am

I am curious though, whats up with airport codes that have numbers in them? The 3 airports I most often fly out of are 2V2, 1V5, and 48V.

The article cited earlier (http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html) explains them.

"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
redngold
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 10:10 am

NYC = general code for New York City-area airports
NYC defaults to John F. Kennedy International Airport if not otherwise specified
LGA is specific to Fiorello LaGuardia Airport
JFK is specific to John F. Kennedy International Airport
EWR is specific to Newark Liberty International Airport


LON = general code for London, England-area airports
LON defaults to London Heathrow International Airport if not otherwise specified
LHR is specific to Heathrow
LGW is specific to Gatwick
LCY is specific to London-City

any questions?

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
strickerje
Posts: 706
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 10:40 am

Doing this "logical naming," is just like naming one of the New York airport NEW. We don't want that, do we?

Of course not, because New Orleans is already NEW! Big grin

(Lakefront airport, that is, not New Orleans International Airport)
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:16 am

San Francisco International is my home airport, and my favorite airport as well.

I have flown out of there a BAZILLION times, having been a fairly frequent traveler, United intern, and United Express employee.

I also assumed it was SFO because that summarized San FranciscO quite nicely.
no wire hangers!
 
fsuwxman
Posts: 435
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:28 pm

With respect for Tallahassee... don't forget we have TAE also, TAE used for the weather part of it, since the NWS office is not on the airport anymore...

TLH- ASOS obs, TAF,TWEB... anything taken at the airport
TAE- everything else, FOREDISC, raobs, zones, watches warnings

Miami has a second one also...

MIA- ASOS obs, TAF, TWEB... at the airport
MFL- FOREDISC, raobs, zones, watches/ warnings

Actually this post seemed as though it has more relevance to the topic, but now.. just FYI...

Good night
ASOS... Another Shi#y Observation Station
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Why Isn't San Francisco SAN?

Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:29 pm

Hell, San Antonio is bigger than SFO, or SAN, Why didn't they get SAN, Instead they got SAT (Hey, I like it) but if we are gonna fight, I might as well join in the fun.  Big thumbs up


http://www.sanantonio.gov/airport/?res=800&ver=true

Puhdiddle

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