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L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:48 pm

Exactly.

My answer if I was Lord High Protector of the US would be to continue the prep for the next schedualed mission which was supposed to happen mid-March.

That should give enough time for the engineers to decide if there is a critical fault with the system, or a failure that was caused by an external force.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dan2002
Posts: 2024
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:26 am

This has to be one of the largest topics on a.net (and the longest to load).
May the victims rest in peace. 2-1-03
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:15 am

Did anyone else see what they put on the CNN ticker?

"Shuttle traveling at 18 times the speed of light."

Hello!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:24 am

Question:

With all the talk about debris hitting the left wing upon launch that ostensibly may have damaged the tiles, or caused one of the sensitive tiles on the leading edge of the left wing (which are carbonized to deal with temperatures in excess of 3000 degrees F on entry), wouldn't NASA have known that the tiles were damaged or missing? Or wouldnt the crew have known that? From previous missions, I've seen cameras on the tailplane of the Shuttle and on other spots on the fuselage that take pictures of the Shuttle inflight. Have news reports mentioned anything about any known tile damage that was recorded? I haven't seen anything so far.
Of course, it could be that the damage was slight upon launch, and only became critical during reentry.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
EWRvirgin
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 11:38 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:34 am

J,

I saw that too and was going to post but you beat me to it!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Trident
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 4:49 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:01 am

There is no way that tiles under the Orbiter can be observed from on board the Shuttle. NASA can use ground based and space based telescopes to photograph the Shuttle. As these are based on classified national security systems, the level of detail observable is never disclosed. However, at last night's press conference it was revealed that these long range telescopes were not used on this occasion. This indicates that NASA officials were pretty confident that the impact of the insulation from the External Tank on the Left Wing of the orbiter was not a significant event. They may, of course, have been wrong.
 
fsuwxman
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 3:57 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:32 am

This goes back to an earlier post that someone had said something about moving the landings back to California... At first I agreed, but after giving it some thought. I will have to disagree with that from a couple of standpoints...

1. If, God forbid, something like that ever happens again, it would be much more difficult to find debris in the bottom of the Pacific. In this case, there can be a quicker recovery, which in turn can lead to a quicker investigation to the cause. Thankfully, the area is not as densely populated as other areas of the nation.

2. Costs- A big reason why the shuttle landing was moved back to KSC was because it was really expensive to piggy back the shuttle back to Florida.

3. Economic- Any event that deals with the Space industry brings a lot of people to the Space Coast (Titusville, Melbourne, Cocoa, Merritt Island). Moving the landings back to CA would put a big dent into Brevard County's economy (granted landings do not produce the numbers of visitors that launches do). NASA itself would make more money because of the extra visitors it receives at all the exhibits.

When the landings were in CA, was the public allowed to go view it? It was on an Air Force Base, so was there public viewing areas. I know that there are public viewing areas at the Shuttle Landing Facilities. Just a few of my thoughts.
ASOS... Another Shi#y Observation Station
 
avi
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:07 am

L-188: I wonder if any of our Israeli members can clue us in to the coverage in that country.

Sorry for the late response but I needed the time.
In general I’m giving the Israeli TV a Failure grade.

In the past few years I followed space flights via NASA TV so I learned how things should look like.
Since there was an Israeli astronaut on board all Israel TV channels (which normally ignore space flights) started to broadcast live at 16:00 (local time, 16 minutes before landing) without understanding what is going on. They watched NASA TV but didn’t listen to it.
For some reason I watched TV and not NASA TV and wasn't aware that there are problems.
Only 3-4 minutes before the landing time I understood that something is wrong because the shuttle was not on TV (you can see it about 5 minutes before landing, at first, with a thermic camera).
I went back to NASA TV and heard that 'communication and data information are lost' for more then 10 minutes but I simply didn't get it. I was still waiting when on channel 2 they said, a minute after landing time, that there is a small delay like it was an El-Al flight. They didn't know what happened, other Israeli TV channels didn't know what happened and when I switched to CNN and SKY NEWS they were not on the air yet, I guess since they didn't see it on their screen they didn't start to broadcast.

It was a very difficult moments. Not to know anything but deep down to know that something horrible happened. Only 5-10 minutes after what was suppose to be the landing time, channel 2 reported that there is a problem (it came when the families were moved from where they were) and in channel 1 only when they switched to CNN (some TV channel). From here there were lots of talking and reports on Ilan Ramon.

Only today they broadcasted some video movies that came from Columbia in the past 2 weeks. In the past 2 weeks, they simply ignore it. Only one channel broadcasted Ramon conversation with the PM live. Only today they found out about the songs in Hebrew etc.
It was a very poor coverage during the flight and during the landing.



FSPilot747: I guess...one way to look at it is, they died doing what they love..doing what they're passionate about.

This is what Ilan Ramon’s wife said that evening. She also added that he died with his friends, people he loved.



This flight gave a lot of pride and satisfaction to a country where good days are hard to find and it all ended in a tragic way only 15 minutes before landing.

May god be with Rick Husband, Willie McCool, Michael Anderson, Kalpana Chawla, David Brown, Laurel Clark, Ilan Ramon and their families.

Long live the B747
 
standby87
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 2:33 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:22 am

Terrible tragedy and I hope the experts can manage to find the cause.
What struck me, as someone who deals with more sedate aircraft, were the performance figures when contact was lost:

Columbia was doing Mach 18.3 and was at 2017135 feet - FL2017.
This is *15* minutes before landing!!
And that is a normal approach!
Absolutely incredible.

And I used to get a bit nervous when China Airlines started a late descent into Taipei...



 
gotAirbus
Posts: 791
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 7:00 am

Gigneil


There's also a shot of the glass cockpit, which I'm assuming is new? They didn always have a class cockpit, did they?


Yup:

Installed on Atlantis first, all space shuttles are "expected to be an all-glass cockpit by 2002"


I wonder what those LCD displays monitor(what parts of aircraft), since the space shuttle is very different from, say a Boeing 747-400

(gotAirbus?)
(gotAIRBUS?) - (Got Commonality?) - (Have A Nice Flight!)
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 8:23 am

You know, I don't have a scanner, but when I was back in 5th grade or so (roughly 8 years ago), a Space Shuttle flew to Huntsville for a demonstration or something. I think it was the Columbia, but I'm not sure. I'll see if I can find a scanner and posts the pics the next time I go home. Mom got some great shots of it, however. We were allowed to sit very close to the active and the sense of massiveness was unbelievable (of course, I was a lot shorter back then and everything seemed bigger, lol).
 
Salina Chan
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 8:58 am

GotAirbus: the two displays on the right and on the left are what you could call Primary Flight Displays showing all the information you would expect to find there (although in a strange format)
Those displays started to be integrated during the OMDPs (Orbiter Maintenance Down Periods) starting from 1999 and are supposed to duplicate old dedicated displays (esp. the two on either side and the two lower displays on the centre console.
The two upper and the centre display on the centre console, are replacements for the old CRTs that showed glide path info, ascent data and so on.

At a later time (when all orbiters are equipped with the MEDS (multifunctional electronic display system) - Endeavour isn't yet, iirc) it is planned to introduce a more elaborate way to display flight data to increase the situational awareness of the crew

Salina
 
redngold
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:48 pm

Yesterday was a very sad day. My heart goes out to the family and friends of the astronauts and to all of those people at NASA who are grieving this accident.

Cleveland, OH, my hometown, is also mourning in a rather personal way. Several of the experiments on Columbia were sent by NASA Glenn Research Center, which is adjacent to KCLE (Cleveland Hopkins International Airport.) Our local TV stations broadcast still photos of Dr. Chawla in training at the Glenn facililty. In addition, Dr. Judith Resnick, who was lost in the Challenger explosion, was from Akron, OH, which is just south of Cleveland; many people there are reliving memories of 1986.

While I am shocked and saddened by yesterday's loss, I also feel a little less shocked than in 1986; perhaps because I am 17 years older; perhaps because it was the second time; perhaps because the Challenger was watched by so many more people and was so much more immediate than what happened to Columbia.

Let us not forget that there are inherent dangers in space flight; let us remember that we are blessed with the ability to go into space; and let us be grateful for the sacrifice of those seven people.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
teahan
Posts: 4994
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:17 pm

The following website is worth a read IMHO: http://nasaproblems.com/

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:03 pm

A few excerpts from the website listed above:

For all this effort the Space Shuttle still has a predicted failure disaster of one in 426 flights.



Hydrogen leaks, damaged wiring, dented fuel line, questionable welding, paperwork errors, and a transitioning workforce are just some of the grave occurring indications that the aging Space Shuttle flight system is now prime for another catastrophic failure.




August 25, 2002

Office of the President of the United States
Mr. George W. Bush
Subject: Executive Order for a Moratorium on Space Shuttle Flight

Mr. President,
I am a recently retired NASA aerospace engineer and it is my duty to inform you that our space shuttle astronauts are in eminent danger. Your intervention is required to prevent another catastrophic space shuttle accident. NASA management and the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel have failed to respond to the growing warning signs of another shuttle accident. Since 1999 the launch system has experienced the following potential disastrous occurrences:
July 1999 - Space Shuttle Columbia delayed by hydrogen leak.
December 1999 - Space Shuttle Discovery was grounded with damaged wiring, contaminated engine, dented fuel line, and paper work errors.
January 2000 - Space Shuttle Endeavor is delayed because of wiring and computer failures.
March 2000 - Space Shuttle Atlantis main engine must be replaced because of paperwork errors.
August 2000 - Inspection of Space Shuttle Columbia reveals 3,500 defects in wiring. Wiring defects plague entire fleet.
October 2000 - The 100th flight of the space shuttle was delayed because of a misplaced safety pin and concerns with the external tank.
April 2001 - NASA failed to keep adequate watch on safety operations of a major contractor.
July 2002 - The inspector general reports that space shuttle safety program not properly managed.
April 2002 - Hydrogen leak forces scrub of the Atlantis flight.
August 2002 - Shuttle launch system grounded after fuel line cracks are discovered in all the fleet!
Mr. President, as you are painfully aware NASA management has been lacking for a number of years. Unfortunately, your new NASA Administrator has failed to recognize the eminent space shuttle danger and has accepted the consul of the pre-existing NASA shuttle management. These managers still pursue a management philosophy that has stagnated the safety upgrades efforts and perpetuates the staggering launch costs.
The space shuttle or any space transportation vehicle without crew escape modules will never be safe to transport humans. To incorporate crew escape modules in the space shuttle requires that the piloting function be removed from the vehicle. Unfortunately, the background of the shuttle management is that of former flight controllers and astronauts. They have been trained to never trust automated flight control systems. Therefore, they are adamantly opposed to automation of the space shuttle. Efforts by NASA engineers and contractors to automate the shuttles are met with stern rebukes and reprimands in some cases.
Mr. President, to prevent another shuttle disaster it is requested that an Executive Order be issued that places a moratorium on space shuttle operations. This moratorium must limit shuttle missions to flight crews that do not exceed four members. The moratorium must remain in effect until crew escape modules can be incorporated.
This moratorium will serve as a catalyst to kick-start the resisting NASA management into action. The lives of our astronauts and the future of our space program must not be ignored. The warning from the Thiokol engineer was ignored and the Challenger exploded. The terrorist training warning from FBI agents was ignored and we had the 9-11 disaster. When the next shuttle explodes...and Murphy’s Law says it will, we can exclaim with pride a loud "YES!" as the crew escape module carries our astronauts to safety... or if this moratorium is ignored...we can watch in horror and shame as the astronauts face certain death.
Don A. Nelson
Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer
Reply from the President's OSTP: "I do not think that it is appropriate for the President to issue a moratorium on Space Shuttle launches at this time" Dec. 4 2002.




NASA's response to an individual's request to install crew escape modules in Space Shuttles:

The current Space Shuttle is safe for human operations. Over the years the Space Shuttle Program has initiated studies for enhancing crew escape options. These studies have always shown that modifying the orbiters to include a crew escape module would provide an increase in the probability of crew survival in the event of a catastrophic event. However, such a design would decrease available crew volume and adversely impact onorbit operational capabilities..................In summary, all previous studies of Space Shuttle crew escape have concluded that the addition of a crew escape module will not lead to an appreciable increase in overall crew safety. Again, it is due to the your values and commitment to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) that makes space transportation not just a dream but also a reality. Your interest in NASA and the Space Shuttle is greatly appreciated.






[Edited 2003-02-03 08:07:35]
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
EIPremier
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:17 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:30 pm

One network has already trotted out John Nance (Alaska Airlines captain) who I guess they think is also a space expert

Is there anything John Nance isn't an expert on?
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:44 pm

One network has already trotted out John Nance (Alaska Airlines captain) who I guess they think is also a space expert

Is there anything John Nance isn't an expert on?


You gotta love people like that...
 
747-600X
Posts: 2551
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2000 3:11 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:55 am

Once upon a time, some fellow wrote this peice about the TWA flight 800 crash, criticizing how much bitching there was about possiblities for mechanical flaws, etc., etc......

Maintaining a space ship might be easy. Throwing that space ship back and forth between space and a planet covered in a thick atmosphere is not so easy. Propelling it by frozen fuels which explode at thousands of degrees is even harder. I'll tell all you people who are going around using this for your own agendas what: We make progress. Progress entails sacrifice. Stop trying to blaim. Start trying to understand. I am enraged, outraged, and distraught over how much this is being used for one purpose or another. The very first thing on the morning paper said, "Was this the fault of governent penny-pinching?" Well I'll be da_ned! The government reserves money for things it needs, of course. They gave what they thought they had to. How dare we blame anyone at a time like this. How dare we!
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:35 am

has any media coverage ever showed any footage of the "contrail" after the break-up?

i mean, there´s lots of video footage on the spaceshuttle´s contrail and then you can see pieces come off of it. but what happenened from until, i haven´t seen a piece of additional info.

this is not making up a conspiracy theory, i´m just asking out of interest.
did the spaceshuttle disintegrate even more, to a point as pieces were so small that they wouldn´t be seen anymore on video??? i mean, if not, there must be more footage, probably until unpackes or as long as possible?

and btw, i believe that if the nasa people on the ground would have thought the incident happening during launch would have been such a problem, i´m sure they could have figured out a way to bring them home safely, even if the tiles could not be repaired. i´m no expert, but those guys, i mean, nasa´s got some of the best people around, they even found a way to bring down safely apollo 13, just my two cents...

take care
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Flyawa
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 3:13 am

The CNN ticker was saying air space in vicinity of Lake Charles LA was closed due to 95 plus mile wide debris cloud in the area late Saturday evening. Does anyone have info on what remained at altitude and slowly drifted into commerical airspace as it also drifted south out over the Gulf of Mexico? What was of danger to commercial flights in the area that many hours after prang?

Also, were their flights under the shuttle debris descent path that were endangered during the event? Did ATC divert any flights that were in the vicinity Saturday morning?

[Edited 2003-02-03 19:23:15]
Better than most, not as good as some.
 
bmi
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:01 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:55 am

After being fortunate to see this Columbia launch a few years ago, I cant believe recent events. Ive seen three shuttle launches, and I hope NASA let us see more in the future. Russia launched an unmanned rocket into orbit from Kazakhstan heading for the International Space Station with food and fuel. The M47 which is controlled from the ground, has enough supplies to last the three-stong space station crew of two Americans and one Russian until June. They were due to be replaced by a crew in March by a fresh team arriving on the US space shuttle Atlantis - but this is unlikly to go ahead. The crew can return on the Soyuz lifeboat, docked on the ISS.

Saw this in the paper too:

Countdown to Disaster:

1315 - Columbia begins its final orbit at a speed of 17,500mph

1345 - Columbia starts to re-enter the atmosphere. Radio contact is lost for about 12 minutes as temperature rises.

1353 - Nasa detects a loss of heat sensor readings in hydraulic systems on the left hand side of the shuttle.

1356 - temperature increase noted in the tyres on the landing gear. shuttle still good for approach.

1358 - loss of heat sensor readings in the left wing and the centre of the shuttle

1359 - mission control contacts the shuttle "columbia, huston. we see your tyre-pressure messages. we did not copy your last." The reply from the deck of Columbia was "Roger...erm..." then all contact with shuttle is lost.

1400 - columbia is travelling at 12,500mph at a height of 207,135ft. All readings are lost as Columbia breaks apart and exploads into fireballs on re-entry.

1402 - Three states in the US are showered with wreckage, people reported finding space boots, helmets, badges, limbs, head hair, shuttle wreckage, body parts and even a skull (according to this paper). America and the world is left - once again - in grief.


Mark
 
lparky
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2001 1:42 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:14 am

I am watching video on NASA-TV of experiments being conducted on this mission and there are several camera views from inside the orbiter including the flight deck.

I would be curious to know if the cameras are powered to capture re-entry. I realize that audio and video signals go dead in that part of the atmosphere where the incident occurred, but if they had been on prior to it, they may offer some insight to what happened.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 7:36 am

Isn't there an FDR on the space shuttle? Have they looked for that?
Puhdiddle
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:34 am

You know, I've never been down to Florida to see a space shuttle launch. This really makes me want to go see one, when they start flying again.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7051
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:13 am

Dear BR715-A!-30, anything similar to a FDR on board Columbia has burned to ashes.

But in fact much more data than any FDR collects is downlinked in real time. That's the reason why the control center knows about the autopilot's elevon trim compensation for the increased drag on the left wing, and the excessive heat buildup in the left hand landing gear bay. No ordinary FDR would have given better data than what is already known.

It is all well known what happened. In short, excessive heating weakened the left hand wing until structural faiure during aerodynamic braking at just over 200,000 ft. going around 12,500 mph. Unable to continue controlled flight, aerodynamic forces and heat destroyed the vehicle completely.

The only question remaining: What had happened to the left hand wing heat protection since it did not do its job? No FDR would ever be able to answer that question.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
AgnusBymaster
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:11 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:13 am

I still find it astonishing that the Shuttle was at 207,000 ft 16 minutes prior to landing. Does anyone know about how far out from the runway the Shuttle begins its "final approach?" About what rate of descent is used at this point?
 
Areopagus
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:48 am

I still find it astonishing that the Shuttle was at 207,000 ft 16 minutes prior to landing. Does anyone know about how far out from the runway the Shuttle begins its "final approach?" About what rate of descent is used at this point?

Try http://www.nav.cc.tx.us/staff_pages/dana/jwy/sts1/enlarge-sts1/s80-41168.htm
which is the diagram for STS-1's landing path. Unfortunately, it doesn't give a time line. But the wild thing is, it crosses the runway at about 50,000 feet and Mach 1; it begins its left turn to line up on the runway at 37,400 ft. and 444 kts; it rolls out onto final approach at 12,000 ft. and 347 kts, and it's at 1900 ft / 301 kts as it gets over the lakebed, where I presume it begins the landing flare.
 
Aesch
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:54 am

This was difficult time for everyone, but besides the technical details and all that surrounds it, the 7 astronauts died as heroes. Unfortunatly a very close friend lost his own hero, his father in the tragedy. Perhaps this incident affects me even greater due my closeness to my friend. His father was W. McCool and i had the chance to come in contact with him several times in the past. I am sure my friend is not the only one to have lost his father in the accident, so hope that all 7 astronauts will be remembered for ever as heroes. Also hope that relatives will be able to surmount such a tragedy.
 
airafrique
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2000 4:25 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:41 am

On the 7:00 PM French Journal on TV in NY channel 23 they show pictures taken by the the Israelie Astronaut ( Rest in Peace ).
You could see visible damage of the left wing.

For God sake why NASA took a chance to bring them down to earth ?


 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:43 am

There is no FDR.

Why carry the weight up to space when everthing is downloaded to Houston and recorded real time?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15680
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:46 am

For God sake why NASA took a chance to bring them down to earth ?

Um, well...since humans don't have the shelf life of gravel, leaving them in space forever doesn't seem to be an ideal scenario.  Insane
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Noise
Posts: 2469
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:07 am

This is so sad, but regardless of this accident, we can't stop the space program now. It is very important not only to the USA but to all of mankind. Let's learn from our mitakes and make the space shuttles better!

By the way, do the Russians have a shuttle-like rocket? What excatly is the "SOYUZ"?
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 12:20 pm

What exactly is the "SOYUZ"?

It is a Russian rocket. I do believe they made a shuttle that looks almost exactly like the U.S. shuttle, but they've never flown into space.

Aesch,

Please express my condolences to your friend and his family.

You know, I've never been down to Florida to see a space shuttle launch. This really makes me want to go see one, when they start flying again.

They are spectacular! See one at night if at all possible.


747-600X,

I support the space program 100%, and I know NASA is a great organization. Rocket science is inherently risky, and we've know this for some time. The Space Shuttle is a remarkable piece of engineering that does what it was designed to do very well. With that said, the next step in the natural grieving process for any tragedy is anger (after the initial shock). Naturally, people are going to be looking to find the root cause of this disaster, and that unfortunately includes analyzing the warning signs that were there (Monday morning quarterbacking) and what possible corners may have been cut, and NASA (and those who dictate its funding) may have a lot to answer for. I know criticism is tough to listen to, but this analysis needs to happen in order to ultimately make the program, while never completely safe, at least an acceptable level of risk. I don't believe 2 failures in 100+ missions should be an acceptable risk, when in both cases some sort of crew escape module built into the crew cabin may have been able to save the crew.

[Edited 2003-02-04 04:31:26]
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
Gunships
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 3:38 pm

While I agree that "some sort" of crew egress system should be a part of the shuttle, I don't see how this type of system would have safely brought the crew of Challenger or Columbia down safely

Challenger was gone in less than the blink of an eye. I just don't think there was time even for a computer-initiated system to sense the problem, process the data, and begin sequence to remove the crew from danger.

Columbia was over 200,000 feet traveling at many times the speed of sound. I cannot see how any type of escape system could have provided the necessary life-support at these extremes.

The answer to keeping the crews alive begins and ends before they are airborne. Once the SRB's ignite, the astronauts are along for the ride, regardless of the outcome.

The people who accept these risks and press ahead with the exploration of space are worthy of our highest respect. I greatly anticipate the next shuttle launch.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 3:43 pm

I believe it was determined that the crew compartment of Challenger was intact until it impacted the ocean. If this compartment was designed to be able to parachute to the surface on it's own, they could have maybe survived. We may find the same to be true with Columbia. However, one design I've read about would have required the removal of the piloting function of the orbiter, which may not be acceptable.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
767ALLTHEWAY
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 1999 5:37 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:38 pm

Today Tuesday 4 FEB 03, they are going into a heavily wooded area in East Texas, to recover what they say is the reasonably intact nose cone of the Columbia.
7 6 7 A L L T H E W A Y
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear"
 
Trident
Posts: 477
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RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:53 pm

Soyuz is the standard Russian manned spacecraft. It first flew into space as long ago as 1967 and evolved out of the earlier Vostok and Voshkod spacecraft. It consists of three sections - a forward spherical section known as the Command Module, a more conical section called the Re-Entry module and a third cylindrical section called the Service Module. It normally carries a crew of two or three and is mainly used today to ferry crew to the International Space Station. Although an old design, it has been updated over the years and has proved a relatively safe and reliable workhorse. An unmanned version called Progress is used to carry provisions to the Space Station.

Buran was the Soviet Union's Space Shuttle. It made one, completely unmanned spaceflight in 1988 and never flew again. It has since been damaged beyond repair by a hangar collapse.

There is no escape from any vehicle tumbling out of control at 12,500 mph. The dynamic and thermal forces are too great for either the structure or its occupants to survive. Parachutes cannot be deployed safely until speeds have decreased to a couple of hundred miles an hour.

 
avi
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:12 pm

On the 7:00 PM French Journal on TV in NY channel 23 they show pictures taken by the the Israelie Astronaut ( Rest in Peace ).
You could see visible damage of the left wing.


If you are talking about the picture where you can see a big crack and bending tin, it is not a wing, it wasn’t taken by Ilan Ramon (or anyone else on STS-107) and above all it is not even Columbia.

The damage was beneath the wing and there was no way they could see it!

I don’t know where this picture came from. I saw it only on channel 1 in Israel, not in other channels in Israel or outside it (again, assuming we are talking about the same picture. Does the picture show something that look like a black pipe?)
Long live the B747
 
airafrique
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2000 4:25 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:12 am

Avi the image I am talking about
http://www.itv.com/news/images/shuttle_dent_sm.jpg
 
avi
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Space Shuttle Columbia Crisis

Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:15 am

Airafrique,
We are talking about the same picture. Don't buy it.
Long live the B747
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