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727LOVER
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Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 2:41 am

As you know, Airtran has been lobbying Boeing for a 717-300. I was wondering what other airlines would possibly want a 717-300?

Midwest (formerly Midwest Express)
Hawaiin, if a 717-300 could do Hawaii-California
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
cfm-56
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 2:57 am

SAS could be interested since they have a wast MD80 fleet that eventually needs to be replaced.Finnair is in the same situation.Time will tell.
 
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ghost77
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:52 am

Probably AeroMexico replacing their MD87s fleet in about... 8 years or less.

ghost77  Smile

 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:15 am

I wouldnt count out NW, DL or AA.

I am not going to start the weekly rumor on what NW will replace their DC-9s with, but that could be a possible contender in some years for a DC-9-50 replacement

DL- They have 737-200s, 737-300s and MD-80s that will need replacing eventually, a 717-300 could possibly appeal to them some day.

AA- A huge fleet of MD-80s and F100s that will need replacing probably in the next 5-10 years. The 713 fits in nicely between them.
 
atct
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:23 am

I was also thinking about Alaska Airlines. Possibly a 717-300Q/C to replace the 732Q/C??? Just a thought. Also AS has a bunch of Md's, but the 73NG's are slotted to replace those. So well i look forward to seeing the 717-300 (if the program gets going).
ATCT
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LMP737
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:33 am

727lover:

You are probably right about Miswest being a possible customer for the 717-300. It's an obvious choice for flying longer routes and capacity increase. I'm not so sure about Hawaiian. A 717-300 would probably not have the range for a HNL-West Coast run. Even if it did have the range it would only make sense to fly it into smaller markets like BUR and SNA. However, Aloha already serves these cities with the 737-700. There's only room for one carrier on these routes. As for inter-island a -300 might be a little to big.

AA would probably not be on the sales list for the -300. American is committed to the 737. When the MD-80's are replaced I would put money on the 737-700.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
717fan
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 5:07 am

Qantaslink is interested and one european customer also, but who could this be?
 
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yyz717
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 5:22 am

I don't think any airline that already has the NG is a potential 713 customer, unless they only operate the 738 which is larger than the 713.

Air Tran & Midwest are the obvious candidates. I dont think Hawaiian is since both Aloha & Hawaiian have shown that the best fleet for intra-Hawaiian is just one type.

There could be some potential 712 customers holding off ordering until Boeing grows the 712 into a family of aircraft. SAS, Finnair, BMI, Austrian are all possible. Perhaps Boeing could offer to take the SAS 736/73G aircraft in exchange for a 712/713 order.

I think AM is now committed to the 73G with their recent commitment for 24 aircraft.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 9:38 am

Airtran,Qantaslink,SAS and Midwest are a couple of the airlines that have expressed interest in the 717-300 if Boeing were to build it.

Stephen
 
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ghost77
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:01 am

Yyz717,

AM first order for the 737-7NG was for 15 acft., plus this weekend ILFC announced 9 737s for AM. ILFC didn´t mention if this 9 were from the first 15 orders. So it could be either 15 or 24 acfts. Also I think AM will turn into a loyal customer for the 737-7 and probably in a near future for the 737-800.

But remember AM got 44 MD80s, plus another 13 Dc9s. A total of 57 acft almost 60 acfts to replace.

Now... AM could get 25 737-700s... 20 737-800s and another 15 717-300s for the next 10 years. So I think 717-3 would be great for a MD87 replace!

ghost77  Smile

 
9v-svc
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:28 am

I hope to see the B717-300 . Personally . I prefer flying the MD-80 family to the 737 and besides the 717-200 looks so lonely, it will be nice to add a companion for her .  Smile


Charles
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
lgbguy
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:26 am

I hear Southwest is interested. Hehehehehehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding, yes I too have heard that Qantaslink is a strong possibilty for the 717-300 along with the obvious AirTran.

..................Stay tuned.

lgbguy
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:39 am

I have a question...

What if Boeing were to relaunch the MD-90 and call it the 717-400?

When McDonald Douglas came out with the MD-90 and sold some to Delta, Delta of course was not ready to replace its MD-88s which it was still receiving at the time and the fleet prolly wasn't even 5 years old yet.

But if Boeing were to relaunch the MD-90 and make it compatable with the 717 and name it the 717-400, do you think current MD-80 operators like AA and DL might be interested?

The MD-90 when it came out was ahead of its time, if McDonald Douglass waited a few more years, it could have been a successful aircraft.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:39 am

Another possible candidate for the 717-300...

Spirit Airlines
 
scottysair
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:42 am

Please keep with the posted about hear anything with more orders anytime soon. When will be ever had builts for the B717-300 aircraft? When will be start deliveries to Airtran and if the program are still use and we will see about that one. Well, catch ya later!
 
ouboy79
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:49 pm

Scotty - it is obvious this thread is nothing but speculation. The 717-300 is nothing but a paper drawing right now.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:53 pm

Ghost77......I am assuming that the AM order is for 24 73G's.....15 from Boeing & 9 to be leased. Of course the 9 could be part of the 15 aircraft order.

While I hope AM opts for the 712, it seems unlikely given their recent 73G order. Any smaller markets would likely be more efficiently served by the 736.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ha763
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 2:33 pm

Definitely count HA out for a 713. The 712 is perfectly sized for the interisland market right now. Any increase in capacity would be added frequency not aircraft size. The smallest aircraft HA has and will consider for transpac flights is the 757.

If anything, AQ should get the 712 to replace the 732. AQ's experience with the 737-300 showed that the CFM engines are not adept to frequent interisland flights.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:39 pm

I think that AA would be a HUGE customer for it! The MD-80 will be flying for AA for atleast another 20 years(some TW MD-80's were delivered in 1999). By then, the 737-800 will be getting old, so who knows, but AA just LOVES them Super 80's so......I think AA would be a big customer.

Jeremy
 
steman
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:49 pm

Hello,
one of the European customers who would like a stretched variant of the 717 is Meridiana, based in Italy, which currently operates a fleet of 4 BAe146-200 and 17 MD-83.
Meridiana has been recently nominated by Boeing as specialized maintenane center for the 717 in Europe, due to its experience with the DC9/MD-80 series.
They are very interested in the 717 as a possible replacement fpr both the BAe146 and the MD-83 but the small Boeing cannot operate from the very short Florence runaway for which the 146 were ordered and it's to small to replace the 163 seats MD-83.
A stretched variant could easily replace the MD-83 but I don't think Meridiana could afford to buy more the 15/20 aircrafts.

Ciao

Stefano
 
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yyz717
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:58 pm

. AQ's experience with the 737-300 showed that the CFM engines are not adept to frequent interisland flights.

Why is that? Aren't their 73G's used for inter-island betw their mainland flights?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 5:30 pm

AQ's experience with the 737-300 showed that the CFM engines are not adept to frequent interisland flights.

I'd say that WN's [considerable greater] experience has proven the CFM to be more than adept at high frequency shorthaul  Insane
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Trvlr
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 5:38 pm

I think AA would most definitely not be a customer for the 713. I obviously don't know what they're thinking out at HQ in DFW, but it seems to me the only reason AA remains so "enamored of" the Md-80 is that they inherently have so many of them (including a bunch of new ones that came from TWA), and, for the time being, they do the job well enough not to warrant a replacement for the next decade or so. Still, all this success with the Super 80 doesn't change the fact that there are several planes out there that could do the job just as well, if not better, and provide AA with a lot more flexibility. AA really stretches the Super 80s legs a lot more than it should, especially on 1500+ routes where I'm pretty sure a NG 737 would feel a lot more at home with its range capabilities and IFE. In summary, American probably doesn't want to hobble itself with more variants of the Md-80, if its own fleet can hold out long enough to be replaced by an airplane vastly superior.

My guess is that American will (finally) replace the Md-80 by becoming a launch customer for Boeing's own replacement of the 737.

Aaron G.
 
ha763
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 9:34 pm

Yyz717-The 73G's are only used for transpac/southpac flights.

ConcordeBoy-The average interisland flight is a lot shorter than the average Southwest flight. From Southwest's website, "The average aircraft trip length is 540 miles with an average duration of about one hour and 36 minutes." By comparison, the average interisland flight is about 40 minutes. The longest interisland flights are between HNL and ITO, which are about 200 miles or a 50 min flight apart. One of the reasons AQ got rid of the 733 was because of constant engine maintenace.
 
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American 767
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:25 pm

I think Alitalia would be interested in it because it's the largest European operator of the MD-80 series aircraft, with SAS. Alitalia operates a large number of MD-80's on many European routes and has for a long time operated the DC-9. It also showed an interest in the 717 when the type was launched 5 years ago but didn't order it maybe because it didn't look like the type was going to be successful. If Boeing expands the 717 family, maybe the Italian airline will help launching the 717 Stretch to eventually replace the MD-80's in the long run.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
717fan
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:30 pm

I would also include Bangkok Airways who is happy with the 717-200 and is staedly expanding.....but they would only take 4 or 5 aircraft I think....
Perhaps Aebal/Spanairlink is also a likely candidate as they are planning to expand its 717 fleet....
 
steman
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:46 pm

ben,
Alitalia has already opted for the A320 family as its standard medium haul type in the fleet and more examples will slowly replace all the MDs.
they have already placed orders for more than 40 A319/A320 and A321...
On the other hand they have placed orders for the EMB-170 with options for the larger 190 so this rules out the 717 even as a possible regional jet


So no 717 for AZ.

Ciao

Stefano
 
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DaV
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:18 am

All the European airlines that operate the Fokker 100 couldn't be all possible buyers for the 712 and eventually the 713?

DaV
Two monologues do not make a dialogue
 
srbmod
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:57 am

Spirit would probably not go for a brand new a/c, they really can't afford to. They have stuck with buying second-hand a/c, and within a few years, there will be a number of MD-80 family a/c on the market, so it would be cheaper for them to pick up some Mad Dogs than it would be to buy a brand new 717. Midwest makes sense because they have MD-80 family a/c that will need to be replaced in the next few years, and the 717-300 would fit that replacement. AirTran is a no-brainer, since they are the dominate 717 operator in the world (which is not really saying much). Would Turkmenistan be interested in a 300 series? I think that if the 717-300 were to be launched, a few major airlines who were previous MD operators would definitely order the 717-300.
 
Guest

RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:02 am

Now why would Alitalia be interested in the 717 if they have Airbus aircraft in their fleet? I think Alitalia will stick with Airbus since they have options on more if I am not mistaken. No, Boeing will not relaunch the MD-90 and call it the 717-400. The 717-300 has a possibility of being made more than the MD-90 relaunch. Oh yeah I heard that Southwest and jetBlue want the 717-300..HAHAHAHHAHAHA just kidding on the WN and B6 part.

Stephen
 
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ghost77
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Tue Feb 18, 2003 9:10 am

Yyz717,

Don´t forget VuelaMex... they were about to start flights in Mexico with 717... or Azteca getting a standard Boeing fleet with 717s, 737s and 757s... (hope so!). So I think AMX could take the same steps... 717, 737, 757, 767 and 777 (this last one, only a dream probably...  Sad)

ghost77  Smile

 
gigneil
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:27 am

There has been talk of AMX taking some GE90-92B powered 777s from AF, so they could standardize on the "next generation" GE90s.

I think flying both 717s and 737s is only an ok idea at best. If AMX could get good loads on the 73G, they should just stick with the 73G and eliminate the other fleet types.

N
 
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ghost77
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:27 am

Gigneli,

Where did you heard that?? (Plz don´t tell me you read it here, cause I was the one who post that...) But if you have another reliable source, did he/she told you an aprox date/month/yr?? And you know how many 777s is AF planning to lease???

ghost77  Smile

 
TSV
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:35 am

Can any of the people saying "Qantaslink" is interested in a "717-300" back that claim up with any concrete evidence and not just hearsay?
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
gigneil
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:40 am

Well, I guess I just can't tell you then.  Smile

N
 
pmk
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:12 pm

Just talked to the management at Spirit, NK plans to purchase a large number of MD-80's to replace the DC-9 fleet, plans are for the end of April to replace all the DC-9's.

Peter
 
Greg
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:47 am

I think the obvious answer is 'no one'.
Otherwise they would be more receptive to it's development.

What you have listed above is mostly pure enthusiasts speculation.
 
JAL
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:09 am

Northwest is a possible customer if they decide to replace their DC-9s. Other potential customers includes Qantas Link and Midwest.

Don't mind seeing Alitalia orders the 717 but don't know if that will happen.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
jettblasterp
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RE: Besides Airtran, Who Else Would Want A 717-300

Sat Feb 22, 2003 7:33 am

What no one here is realizing is that the 713 will NOT be an MD80 replacement. It would be a DC9-50 replacement. In order to replace the MD80 Boeing would have to redesign the wing as well as MANY other things. It is not a simple stretch of the plane. If Boeing were to make an MD80 replacement they never would have shut down the MD80/90 program, which they did. A 713, being a DC9-50 replacment would not improve range or capacity to the point it would replace MD80s. So forget it, no one would buy it including AirTran or Midwest. Northwest could be the only interested party but we know that will never happen.

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