Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: JetBLue
According to their website both routes starts May 8th, 2003.
Atlanta will be served 3 times a day
Chepos
Atlanta will be served 3 times a day
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
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- scottysair
- Posts: 6441
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RE: JetBLue
Here it is with the press releases for flight from ATL-LGB flight: http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?newsId=170
This is great news for the additional more flight from LGB to OAK, SLC, IAD, LAS and JFK. This is sixth flight out there to ATL flightt now. Well, catch ya later!
Regards!!
This is great news for the additional more flight from LGB to OAK, SLC, IAD, LAS and JFK. This is sixth flight out there to ATL flightt now. Well, catch ya later!
Regards!!
RE: JetBLue
They always manage to surprise us. The speculation on here is always wrong. Except the FLL-LGB, we've been expecting that one for a long time. I also noticed that their LGB-LAS schedule is down to just two flights a day after that.
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- scottysair
- Posts: 6441
- Joined:
RE: JetBLue
Yes, it is for the FLL-LGB will be 1 daily roundtrip nonstop. So look it up and here it is press releases for FLL-LGB: http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?newsId=169 Well, catch ya later!
Regards!
Regards!
RE: JetBLue
when will the ORD service be announced, if it does occur?
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- deltairlines
- Posts: 7168
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RE: JetBLue
I can see it now...
Delta will, at all costs, knock JetBlue out of Fort Widget. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL undercut JetBlue's prices on ATL-LAX/SNA/ONT, as well as adding some capacity possibly.
Jeff
Delta will, at all costs, knock JetBlue out of Fort Widget. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL undercut JetBlue's prices on ATL-LAX/SNA/ONT, as well as adding some capacity possibly.
Jeff
RE: JetBLue
Delta will, at all costs, knock JetBlue out of Fort Widget. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL undercut JetBlue's prices on ATL-LAX/SNA/ONT, as well as adding some capacity possibly.
Yes, they will try, and then all of Delta's yields to Southern California will be utterly destroyed. Meanwhile, JB makes money on those $120 to $300 fares, develops a following since the service and fares are better than Delta coach, grows on word of mouth, then... JFK-ATL. More yield destruction. Oops.
I don't think JB would have gone anywhere near ATL if Delta hadn't been too obviously bloodthirsty with Song. Too bad.
Yes, they will try, and then all of Delta's yields to Southern California will be utterly destroyed. Meanwhile, JB makes money on those $120 to $300 fares, develops a following since the service and fares are better than Delta coach, grows on word of mouth, then... JFK-ATL. More yield destruction. Oops.
I don't think JB would have gone anywhere near ATL if Delta hadn't been too obviously bloodthirsty with Song. Too bad.
RE: JetBLue
Of course, Delta might just strike back with Song again, say cross country?
RE: JetBLue
Of course, Delta might just strike back with Song again, say cross country?
Thus cannibalizing their own mainline service. Lower yields again. Lose-lose scenario. Better if they just keep Song to existing low-yield, high-density routes, or develop new ones.
Thus cannibalizing their own mainline service. Lower yields again. Lose-lose scenario. Better if they just keep Song to existing low-yield, high-density routes, or develop new ones.
RE: JetBLue
My point was simply that Delta has its own ways of fighting back. Jetblue hasn't killed Delta on JFK to LA routes, so why would it hurt ATL-LAX. This is even more of the case considering the huge amount of traffic on the ATL-LAX route that are connecting through the ATL hub.
RE: JetBLue
Interestingly, this also puts a lid on the number of flights that jetBlue will be operating from LGB; with the summer schedule additions, they'll be operating 7 flights to OAK (reduced to 6 on June 26), 6 to JFK (increased to 7 when an OAK flight is eliminated June 26), 3 each IAD and ATL, 2 to LAS, and 1 each to SLC and FLL, giving a total of 23 daily departures & arrivals, matching the number of slots they currently hold (one slot is, at present, temporary). It looks like additional flights will require reductions in service to OAK, LAS, or SLC.
Then again, they may be able to obtain additional slots when the LGB noise budget is reviewed at year-end, or if Alaska or American fail to use their slots. They lose one slot if Alaska does choose to use its two slots. An interesting part of the noise budget calculation is that flights between 7 PM and 10 PM (when jetBlue is operating its red-eye departures) carry 3 times the noise weighting as 7 AM to 7 PM flights.
Service to ATL seems to be a direct response to Song; looks like things are going to get ugly between B6 and DL...
Then again, they may be able to obtain additional slots when the LGB noise budget is reviewed at year-end, or if Alaska or American fail to use their slots. They lose one slot if Alaska does choose to use its two slots. An interesting part of the noise budget calculation is that flights between 7 PM and 10 PM (when jetBlue is operating its red-eye departures) carry 3 times the noise weighting as 7 AM to 7 PM flights.
Service to ATL seems to be a direct response to Song; looks like things are going to get ugly between B6 and DL...
RE: JetBLue
Very true. I didn't mean to imply that Delta would be killed on ATL-LA. My point was only that this will almost certainly inflict financial harm where none would have existed if Delta hadn't been so obvious about targeting JetBlue specifically. JMHO, I could be wrong. For all I know, this has been planned all along, and the timing vis-a-vis Song's debut is only a coincidence.
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- ConcordeBoy
- Posts: 16852
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RE: JetBLue
It seems kind of a headstrong move by B6... perhaps they've bitten off more than they can chew. Perhaps they should've followed WN's lead on this one, and left ATL alone. DL has the ability to sink tons of capacity into all 4 of the Los Angeles markets that it serves, using the most powerful hub operation in the world to back it up. Tough for three A320 flights to a slot/noise restricted airport to truly challenge that, no?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
RE: JetBLue
Either David Neeleman looks in these forums or I'm psychic:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1021085/6/
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1021085/6/
RE: JetBLue
Leo Mullin has made it quite clear that Delta will take the new lcc's on, not back away. Jetblue entered into a market that Delta has a huge presence in (NE-Florida). Delta responded by retooling its operations into what will be Song. JetBlue has seemingly struck back by entering the ATL marketplace. Delta will respond again. It may not be by adding JetBlue into the ATL-LA market, but rather by attacking another JetBlue market, maybe JFK-LAS with Song, or something else.
If Delta hadn't responded to JetBlue with Song, Delta would have continued to lose marketshare. Of course, it still may. But Delta will try as it must to protect its market. If it didn't, it would lose valuable revenue. One of the major critiques of the large airlines has been that they haven't responded to the changing market, such as LCC's. Now Delta has responded, and has indicated that it will continue to challenge them. Seemingly Delta can't win with some on this forum.
If Delta hadn't responded to JetBlue with Song, Delta would have continued to lose marketshare. Of course, it still may. But Delta will try as it must to protect its market. If it didn't, it would lose valuable revenue. One of the major critiques of the large airlines has been that they haven't responded to the changing market, such as LCC's. Now Delta has responded, and has indicated that it will continue to challenge them. Seemingly Delta can't win with some on this forum.
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- goingboeing
- Posts: 4727
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RE: JetBLue
Delta will, at all costs, knock JetBlue out of Fort Widget. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL undercut JetBlue's prices on ATL-LAX/SNA/ONT, as well as adding some capacity possibly.
Ask the folks at AA what that tends to do to an airline. Undercut fares...increase frequencies....can anybody spell "predatory"?
Delta fights back by taking on a JBLU transcon route? How's ATL-JFK sound? Ohhhh, I can almost hear those yields dropping. Who knows, enough routes attacked by Song and you might see some 320's heading into CVG.
Delta has their hands full with this one, because a big blue wrench just got thrown into the "other airline's" plan to maintain mainline fares.
Ask the folks at AA what that tends to do to an airline. Undercut fares...increase frequencies....can anybody spell "predatory"?
Delta fights back by taking on a JBLU transcon route? How's ATL-JFK sound? Ohhhh, I can almost hear those yields dropping. Who knows, enough routes attacked by Song and you might see some 320's heading into CVG.
Delta has their hands full with this one, because a big blue wrench just got thrown into the "other airline's" plan to maintain mainline fares.
RE: JetBLue
Delta saw this coming about 6 months ago and accordingly increased their ATL-JFK capacity from 2 daily flights to 10 daily flights over that period to proactively deter jetBlue from entering that market. Hence the introduction of ATL-LGB.
I don't think jetBlue will take too much business away from Delta here, but rather eat into the other carriers' market share on the Atlanta-SoCal route. Remember, a vast majority of Delta's capacity on that route is fed by connection traffic that jetBlue cannot touch. The price sensitive O&D traffic (which is what jetBlue targets) is already picking the competition over Delta in this market.
I don't think jetBlue will take too much business away from Delta here, but rather eat into the other carriers' market share on the Atlanta-SoCal route. Remember, a vast majority of Delta's capacity on that route is fed by connection traffic that jetBlue cannot touch. The price sensitive O&D traffic (which is what jetBlue targets) is already picking the competition over Delta in this market.
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- LoneStarMike
- Posts: 2808
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RE: JetBLue
Here's more coverage from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:
JetBlue beat goes on with Atlanta route.
CEO: Decision simply sound business move
02/18/203
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/epaper/editions/today/business_e315cca73625809100a8.html
LoneStarMike
RE: JetBLue
Delta saw this coming about 6 months ago and accordingly increased their ATL-JFK capacity from 2 daily flights to 10 daily flights over that period to proactively deter jetBlue from entering that market. Hence the introduction of ATL-LGB.
Maybe they did see it coming. But of those 10 flights, 8 are on RJ's. Read: high cost. That's not exactly a deterrant to JetBlue entering the JFK-ATL O/D market, since the lower yields would eliminate RJ's as profitable competitors. On the other hand, you are correct of course that JetBlue has no chance of touching Delta's connecting traffic in ATL. They sure can scrape away at some of the higher-yielding routes, though.
Maybe they did see it coming. But of those 10 flights, 8 are on RJ's. Read: high cost. That's not exactly a deterrant to JetBlue entering the JFK-ATL O/D market, since the lower yields would eliminate RJ's as profitable competitors. On the other hand, you are correct of course that JetBlue has no chance of touching Delta's connecting traffic in ATL. They sure can scrape away at some of the higher-yielding routes, though.
RE: JetBLue
JetBlue has one huge advantage here in my opinion. That is Long Beach. It is an easy and inexpensive aiport to work with. Cheap parking, easy in and out compared to that LAX disaster area.
I think this is an awesome idea. I will drive to Long Beach from San Diego to fly JetBlue to Atlanta!
I think this is an awesome idea. I will drive to Long Beach from San Diego to fly JetBlue to Atlanta!
RE: JetBLue
As explained before...the attack directly on Fort Widget will be nothing more than say Frontier coming to ATL. ATL-LGB can only grow so far...and all DL needs to do is dump 764s and 777s on the routes to SoCal and lower fares to either AT COST or just above cost. As long as they aren't losing money...it isn't predatory.
So what else can JBLU do to Delta? Their attack on Fort Widget will have to continue to be on other routes and not directly on the Fort itself. Why? A very very unlikely ally will develop....AIRTRAN. If JBLU comes in after ATL-JFK or ATL-FLL...AirTran is going to also put up a fight because that is their typical O&D traffic that they are skimming from DL.
JBLU needs to be very careful on how far they want to piss Leo and Co. off. Neeleman may have a couple of huge brass ones...but Dr. Evil has 3.
So what else can JBLU do to Delta? Their attack on Fort Widget will have to continue to be on other routes and not directly on the Fort itself. Why? A very very unlikely ally will develop....AIRTRAN. If JBLU comes in after ATL-JFK or ATL-FLL...AirTran is going to also put up a fight because that is their typical O&D traffic that they are skimming from DL.
JBLU needs to be very careful on how far they want to piss Leo and Co. off. Neeleman may have a couple of huge brass ones...but Dr. Evil has 3.
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- goingboeing
- Posts: 4727
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RE: JetBLue
Even if they lower prices to cost and not below - and increase service - don't you think the feds will be looking really close if JetBlue should say "No MAs" and pull out? I have an idea that should they do what you propose, and JetBlue pulls out, Delta had better maintain any additional frequencies and keep costs low for longer than a day or two, or else they'll find themselves waiting in court with the guys from AA. Predatory tactics aren't all price related. So the question then becomes, how long can Delta sustain "Song-like" fares and service levels without appearing to be predatory?
RE: JetBLue
Delta already operates a lot of 764s to LAX, and they clearly don't have enough 777s to add any on that route.
DL has been ineffective at getting rid of Airtran... and this route is definitely going to depress the yields for DL.
I think JFK-LAS is an outstanding target Song market.
N
DL has been ineffective at getting rid of Airtran... and this route is definitely going to depress the yields for DL.
I think JFK-LAS is an outstanding target Song market.
N
RE: JetBLue
I think Airtran better hurry up and order some 737NGs, otherwise B6 is going to be the main LCC from ATL-West of the Rockies.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
RE: JetBLue
I think Frontier is in a slightly better position to be the main LCC from ATL-West of the Rockies right now.
N
N
RE: JetBLue
On the front business section in Atlanta it has a picture of Neelman chrisining Song Sung Blue....
This is a war between jetBlue and Delta! I love it. This is a real victory for me... now I can wear my JetBlue shirts in public!
If only it started in April for spring break!
I can't wait to sit in those leather seats and watch some TV. I keep imagining watching TV in the air... what would it be like to watch this show or that show!
THIS IS THE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE! THANKS DAVID!
This is a war between jetBlue and Delta! I love it. This is a real victory for me... now I can wear my JetBlue shirts in public!
If only it started in April for spring break!
I can't wait to sit in those leather seats and watch some TV. I keep imagining watching TV in the air... what would it be like to watch this show or that show!
THIS IS THE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE! THANKS DAVID!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
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- scottysair
- Posts: 6441
- Joined:
RE: JetBLue
STT757,
Not anytime for orders with B737NG aircraft into AirTran either yet. You had wait to see what is they said about Airtram rumors want expansion to the west coast flight. This is best way use for jetBlue flying out from ATL-LGB first time ever with the more flight than of the LAX airport. You can do wear with the shirts jetBlue at the public.
FLAIRPORT,
The jetBlue is not operate began in April and it's is on May 8, 2003 for flight to LGB. You will do fly out from ATL anytime if you want, OK? Well, catch ya later!
Regards!
Not anytime for orders with B737NG aircraft into AirTran either yet. You had wait to see what is they said about Airtram rumors want expansion to the west coast flight. This is best way use for jetBlue flying out from ATL-LGB first time ever with the more flight than of the LAX airport. You can do wear with the shirts jetBlue at the public.
FLAIRPORT,
The jetBlue is not operate began in April and it's is on May 8, 2003 for flight to LGB. You will do fly out from ATL anytime if you want, OK? Well, catch ya later!
Regards!
RE: JetBLue
I think it is incredibly obvious that jetBlue starting ATL-LGB was a pretty last minute thing, a direct hit at Delta for thier introduction of Song. Go jetBlue. And thank you, finally, for FLL-LGB!
a.
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- SegmentKing
- Posts: 3224
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RE: JetBLue
I agree, in regards to Frontier. Most of my ATL-DEN flights have been very full......
-n
-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
RE: JetBLue
LGB-SLC was discontinued, with an end date sometime in July, but it has been un-suspended and will continue through at least September when it will be re-evaulated.
a.
RE: JetBLue
3 flights a day will not hurt delta.
Yes it will. It will not steal passengers, but it will still kill yield.
Yes it will. It will not steal passengers, but it will still kill yield.
a.
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