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trey
Topic Author
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 11:28 am

JetBLue

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:01 pm

JetBlue now flying to FLL and ATL from Long Beach, just read about it. Interesting.
 
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chepos
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: JetBLue

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:21 pm

According to their website both routes starts May 8th, 2003.
Atlanta will be served 3 times a day
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
scottysair
Posts: 6441
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: JetBLue

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:29 pm

Here it is with the press releases for flight from ATL-LGB flight: http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?newsId=170
This is great news for the additional more flight from LGB to OAK, SLC, IAD, LAS and JFK. This is sixth flight out there to ATL flightt now. Well, catch ya later!

Regards!!
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

RE: JetBLue

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:37 pm

They always manage to surprise us. The speculation on here is always wrong. Except the FLL-LGB, we've been expecting that one for a long time. I also noticed that their LGB-LAS schedule is down to just two flights a day after that.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6441
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: JetBLue

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:40 pm

Yes, it is for the FLL-LGB will be 1 daily roundtrip nonstop. So look it up and here it is press releases for FLL-LGB: http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?newsId=169 Well, catch ya later!

Regards!
 
ORD Boy 2
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: JetBLue

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:52 pm

when will the ORD service be announced, if it does occur?
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7142
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:45 am

I can see it now...

Delta will, at all costs, knock JetBlue out of Fort Widget. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL undercut JetBlue's prices on ATL-LAX/SNA/ONT, as well as adding some capacity possibly.

Jeff
 
Jeff G
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:56 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:56 am

Delta will, at all costs, knock JetBlue out of Fort Widget. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL undercut JetBlue's prices on ATL-LAX/SNA/ONT, as well as adding some capacity possibly.

Yes, they will try, and then all of Delta's yields to Southern California will be utterly destroyed. Meanwhile, JB makes money on those $120 to $300 fares, develops a following since the service and fares are better than Delta coach, grows on word of mouth, then... JFK-ATL. More yield destruction. Oops.

I don't think JB would have gone anywhere near ATL if Delta hadn't been too obviously bloodthirsty with Song. Too bad.
 
jrlander
Posts: 1026
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:00 am

Of course, Delta might just strike back with Song again, say cross country?
 
Jeff G
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:56 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:08 am

Of course, Delta might just strike back with Song again, say cross country?

Thus cannibalizing their own mainline service. Lower yields again. Lose-lose scenario. Better if they just keep Song to existing low-yield, high-density routes, or develop new ones.
 
jrlander
Posts: 1026
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:10 am

My point was simply that Delta has its own ways of fighting back. Jetblue hasn't killed Delta on JFK to LA routes, so why would it hurt ATL-LAX. This is even more of the case considering the huge amount of traffic on the ATL-LAX route that are connecting through the ATL hub.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7191
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:17 am

Interestingly, this also puts a lid on the number of flights that jetBlue will be operating from LGB; with the summer schedule additions, they'll be operating 7 flights to OAK (reduced to 6 on June 26), 6 to JFK (increased to 7 when an OAK flight is eliminated June 26), 3 each IAD and ATL, 2 to LAS, and 1 each to SLC and FLL, giving a total of 23 daily departures & arrivals, matching the number of slots they currently hold (one slot is, at present, temporary). It looks like additional flights will require reductions in service to OAK, LAS, or SLC.

Then again, they may be able to obtain additional slots when the LGB noise budget is reviewed at year-end, or if Alaska or American fail to use their slots. They lose one slot if Alaska does choose to use its two slots. An interesting part of the noise budget calculation is that flights between 7 PM and 10 PM (when jetBlue is operating its red-eye departures) carry 3 times the noise weighting as 7 AM to 7 PM flights.

Service to ATL seems to be a direct response to Song; looks like things are going to get ugly between B6 and DL...
 
Jeff G
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:56 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:19 am

Very true. I didn't mean to imply that Delta would be killed on ATL-LA. My point was only that this will almost certainly inflict financial harm where none would have existed if Delta hadn't been so obvious about targeting JetBlue specifically. JMHO, I could be wrong. For all I know, this has been planned all along, and the timing vis-a-vis Song's debut is only a coincidence.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 2:21 am

It seems kind of a headstrong move by B6... perhaps they've bitten off more than they can chew. Perhaps they should've followed WN's lead on this one, and left ATL alone. DL has the ability to sink tons of capacity into all 4 of the Los Angeles markets that it serves, using the most powerful hub operation in the world to back it up. Tough for three A320 flights to a slot/noise restricted airport to truly challenge that, no?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:35 am

Either David Neeleman looks in these forums or I'm psychic:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1021085/6/
 
jrlander
Posts: 1026
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:11 am

Leo Mullin has made it quite clear that Delta will take the new lcc's on, not back away. Jetblue entered into a market that Delta has a huge presence in (NE-Florida). Delta responded by retooling its operations into what will be Song. JetBlue has seemingly struck back by entering the ATL marketplace. Delta will respond again. It may not be by adding JetBlue into the ATL-LA market, but rather by attacking another JetBlue market, maybe JFK-LAS with Song, or something else.

If Delta hadn't responded to JetBlue with Song, Delta would have continued to lose marketshare. Of course, it still may. But Delta will try as it must to protect its market. If it didn't, it would lose valuable revenue. One of the major critiques of the large airlines has been that they haven't responded to the changing market, such as LCC's. Now Delta has responded, and has indicated that it will continue to challenge them. Seemingly Delta can't win with some on this forum.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:06 am

Delta will, at all costs, knock JetBlue out of Fort Widget. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL undercut JetBlue's prices on ATL-LAX/SNA/ONT, as well as adding some capacity possibly.

Ask the folks at AA what that tends to do to an airline. Undercut fares...increase frequencies....can anybody spell "predatory"?

Delta fights back by taking on a JBLU transcon route? How's ATL-JFK sound? Ohhhh, I can almost hear those yields dropping. Who knows, enough routes attacked by Song and you might see some 320's heading into CVG.

Delta has their hands full with this one, because a big blue wrench just got thrown into the "other airline's" plan to maintain mainline fares.
 
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B747-437B
Posts: 8914
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:12 am

Delta saw this coming about 6 months ago and accordingly increased their ATL-JFK capacity from 2 daily flights to 10 daily flights over that period to proactively deter jetBlue from entering that market. Hence the introduction of ATL-LGB.

I don't think jetBlue will take too much business away from Delta here, but rather eat into the other carriers' market share on the Atlanta-SoCal route. Remember, a vast majority of Delta's capacity on that route is fed by connection traffic that jetBlue cannot touch. The price sensitive O&D traffic (which is what jetBlue targets) is already picking the competition over Delta in this market.
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2808
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:33 am

Here's more coverage from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

JetBlue beat goes on with Atlanta route.
CEO: Decision simply sound business move
02/18/203

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/epaper/editions/today/business_e315cca73625809100a8.html

LoneStarMike

 
Jeff G
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:56 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:25 am

Delta saw this coming about 6 months ago and accordingly increased their ATL-JFK capacity from 2 daily flights to 10 daily flights over that period to proactively deter jetBlue from entering that market. Hence the introduction of ATL-LGB.

Maybe they did see it coming. But of those 10 flights, 8 are on RJ's. Read: high cost. That's not exactly a deterrant to JetBlue entering the JFK-ATL O/D market, since the lower yields would eliminate RJ's as profitable competitors. On the other hand, you are correct of course that JetBlue has no chance of touching Delta's connecting traffic in ATL. They sure can scrape away at some of the higher-yielding routes, though.
 
UAL-Fan
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 1999 1:36 pm

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:26 am

JetBlue has one huge advantage here in my opinion. That is Long Beach. It is an easy and inexpensive aiport to work with. Cheap parking, easy in and out compared to that LAX disaster area.

I think this is an awesome idea. I will drive to Long Beach from San Diego to fly JetBlue to Atlanta!
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4115
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 7:31 am

As explained before...the attack directly on Fort Widget will be nothing more than say Frontier coming to ATL. ATL-LGB can only grow so far...and all DL needs to do is dump 764s and 777s on the routes to SoCal and lower fares to either AT COST or just above cost. As long as they aren't losing money...it isn't predatory.

So what else can JBLU do to Delta? Their attack on Fort Widget will have to continue to be on other routes and not directly on the Fort itself. Why? A very very unlikely ally will develop....AIRTRAN. If JBLU comes in after ATL-JFK or ATL-FLL...AirTran is going to also put up a fight because that is their typical O&D traffic that they are skimming from DL.

JBLU needs to be very careful on how far they want to piss Leo and Co. off. Neeleman may have a couple of huge brass ones...but Dr. Evil has 3.  Big grin
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 7:52 am

Even if they lower prices to cost and not below - and increase service - don't you think the feds will be looking really close if JetBlue should say "No MAs" and pull out? I have an idea that should they do what you propose, and JetBlue pulls out, Delta had better maintain any additional frequencies and keep costs low for longer than a day or two, or else they'll find themselves waiting in court with the guys from AA. Predatory tactics aren't all price related. So the question then becomes, how long can Delta sustain "Song-like" fares and service levels without appearing to be predatory?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:00 am

Delta already operates a lot of 764s to LAX, and they clearly don't have enough 777s to add any on that route.

DL has been ineffective at getting rid of Airtran... and this route is definitely going to depress the yields for DL.

I think JFK-LAS is an outstanding target Song market.

N
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14166
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:09 am

I think Airtran better hurry up and order some 737NGs, otherwise B6 is going to be the main LCC from ATL-West of the Rockies.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:11 am

I think Frontier is in a slightly better position to be the main LCC from ATL-West of the Rockies right now.

N
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:26 am

On the front business section in Atlanta it has a picture of Neelman chrisining Song Sung Blue....

This is a war between jetBlue and Delta! I love it. This is a real victory for me... now I can wear my JetBlue shirts in public!

If only it started in April for spring break!

I can't wait to sit in those leather seats and watch some TV. I keep imagining watching TV in the air... what would it be like to watch this show or that show!

THIS IS THE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE! THANKS DAVID!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
scottysair
Posts: 6441
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:21 am

STT757,

Not anytime for orders with B737NG aircraft into AirTran either yet. You had wait to see what is they said about Airtram rumors want expansion to the west coast flight. This is best way use for jetBlue flying out from ATL-LGB first time ever with the more flight than of the LAX airport. You can do wear with the shirts jetBlue at the public.

FLAIRPORT,

The jetBlue is not operate began in April and it's is on May 8, 2003 for flight to LGB. You will do fly out from ATL anytime if you want, OK? Well, catch ya later!

Regards!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26409
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:13 am

I think it is incredibly obvious that jetBlue starting ATL-LGB was a pretty last minute thing, a direct hit at Delta for thier introduction of Song. Go jetBlue. And thank you, finally, for FLL-LGB!
a.
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:42 am

I agree, in regards to Frontier. Most of my ATL-DEN flights have been very full......

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
Guest

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:23 am

Don't be suprised is SLC is dropped from LGB.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26409
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:31 pm

LGB-SLC was discontinued, with an end date sometime in July, but it has been un-suspended and will continue through at least September when it will be re-evaulated.
a.
 
trey
Topic Author
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 11:28 am

RE: JetBLue

Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:28 pm

3 flights a day will not hurt delta.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26409
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBLue

Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:16 am

3 flights a day will not hurt delta.

Yes it will. It will not steal passengers, but it will still kill yield.
a.

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