Airline Training Academy Closes It's Doors.

airlinelover · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:03 am

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-bizpilotschool01030103mar01,0,4533622.story?

Airline Training Academy, based at ORL just shut it's doors with no warning to students, who have paid in advance tens of thousands in prepaid tuition. Including a friend of mine. Students were in the school, when security came in and told everyone they had 5 minutes to get their stuff and get out. Many of these students were young people, single parents, people who had sold their homes or cashed in their life savings to fulfill a dream. Now, they probably have no way to get their money back, and they don't know what to do.

If ANYONE in the Orlando or general area has any way that they can help these people, please let me know or you can contact the person at the bottom of the article. This is a true injustice, one that CANNOT be gotten away with.. Oh- little extra info- The owner and high-ups there just bought brand-new benzes and curises and more right before they closed..

Chris

[Edited 2003-03-02 21:04:29]

[Edited 2003-03-02 21:09:08]

dc-10 levo · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:06 am

when security came in and told everyone they had 5 minutes to get their stuff and get out

Are they really allowed to do this? That is awful, all that money they paid for nothing.

DC-10

airlinelover · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:10 am

Well, they did, as my friend called me up yesterday, was so pissed I could harldy understand what she said.. I called her today, and she told me all about it.. I don't know if there is a way they can fight it or not.. Let's hope so..

Chris

jwenting · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:13 am

Depending on how it was done, yes possibly.

I can imagine a scenario where a creditor who has a large outstanding loan suddenly demands his money back after an accountant declares that the company is a bad investment.
If the company then cannot pay, said investor can lay claim to all assets of the company and close it down.

jhooper · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:24 am

That's really sad. Unfortunately, this happens quite often, including the school I trained at. Fortunately, I only had about $500 tied up on account before they suddenly went out of business. Alot of the international students were screwed, because they pre-paid a $20,000 program. Avoid pre-paid training programs if at all possible, because as soon as they go belly up, you're SOL. I must say the method they employed to "boot em out" was in pretty bad taste. Just be careful in this flight training business; there are just too many ways to get ripped off.

dc-10 levo · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:29 am

I can't believe the amount of money they paid for that and now every penny of it has gone - they've got nothing. It's really sad. I just hope they can fight to get their money back.

[Edited 2003-03-02 21:30:03]

AerMickey · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:41 am

This just continues to be the reputation of one of these big flight schools. Another Comair training academy. From every pilot I have ever talked to(747 Captain through RJ First Officer), all I have heard is stay at your local FBO. Sad that they couldn't have given them a little more of a notice. Hang in there if any of you are students are reading this post.

Mickey

jhooper · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:46 am

But beware too that things like this can (and DO) happen at local FBOs too, not just the big schools. The advantage of the local FBO is that you have the option to pay-as-you-go.

SegmentKing · Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:57 am

I guess when your school and airline owes people over $1 million and they want to collect, they will.

jhooper · Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:13 am

How do they collect? If they're bankrupt, that means they don't have the money to pay.

SegmentKing · Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:41 am

airplanes and other items are assets. Although I'm not sure if the Discover Air Embraers and J32s are owned or if they did a sale-leaseback... they *should* have been 100% owned by Discover Air....

anyway, sorry to see them close. Just a case of *very* bad management. Wait till the SEC starts investigating... Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-n

cschleic · Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:38 am

Students likely are unsecured creditors, coming behind those who secured their loans or supplies with assets of the company. If the company was behind on income or payroll tax payments, that jumps ahead and it gets really ugly. If students paid with credit cards, they should give talking to their credit card company a shot, although since some of the service was provided, that might not yield anything.

SegmentKing · Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:29 am

so contact the Hilliard family.... they're the ones that f'd up Discover Air & the flight school.. not Jim Williams.. his only fault was being a pilot and in management...

-n

mjzair · Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:42 am

AirMickey,
What do you mean by "another Comair academy"?

And to all the students at ATA, sorry about the close, I cannot even imagine what you are going through.

jhooper · Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:50 am

I believe he's talking about the huge flight schools, such as "Comair", "Flight Safety", "Airline Transport Professionals" and other "Pay For Training (PFT)" organizations.

So Discover Air is affiliated with Airline Training Academy? I didn't realize that. That is the company that sometimes gets chartered by my university to bring people to and from football games, etc.

prosa · Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:22 am

In some states, there are guaranty funds that provide partial reimbursement to students of failed proprietary schools. I don't know if Florida has such a fund.

FutureFO · Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:28 am

I am finishing up thru a FBO at KSFB and they offer financial aid to cover the cost of training but if ine chooses you can also pay as you go.

jhooper · Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:08 pm

http://www.flyhere.com/

Their website is showing NOTHING!

tt737fo · Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:19 pm

This school is one of the LEAST reputable of all the bottom feeding PFT schools. It's been investigated and probed...how it stayed in business, I have no clue.

Go to any board (Flightinfo, willfly4food, ilsapproach) and there will be a plethora of horror stories. Perhaps Gulstream's little racket will be the next one to drop.

Word to the wise: no matter what the promises are...anything less than 135mins is not stable enough in today's economy.

drewwright · Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:38 pm

Let me help clear up a misconception about pay-for-training, or PFT. Pay-for-training is really "pay-for-job," as in the case of Gulstream Academy. At Gulfstream, the student pays to fly for Gulfstream International, thereby taking a job that should go to a seasoned first officer. Schools such as FlightSafety, Comair, Riddle, etc., are simply flight training institutions. There is no opportunity to buy your way into a job as at Gulfstream.

The Williams family owns both the academy and Discover Air and holds all key managerial positions in both companies. The president of the academy (Rob Williams) is also currently a pilot for Amtran...I believe a 738 captain. Jim Williams is a retired Delta captain. Jeff Williams is a former Comair Brasilia captain. So this atrocity was brought upon future aviation professionals by current and retired pilots! These thieves were taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from new students just one week before they shut the doors! Now, 250 students are out millions of dollars collectively, and some are even homeless as the academy didn't bother to pay thier rent for the month. Unfortunately, this is the state of corporate America, not just flight training. THe Williams family greedily collected as much as they could, and the school simply vanished into thin air. the website blank, as if the school never existed.

Pray for the victims of this greedy family.

airlinelover · Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:45 pm

Yeah, I saw their website is G O N E.. I really wonder how the hell these ppl got to do this.. It really makes me sick..

Chris

jhooper · Mon Mar 03, 2003 2:53 pm

As far as I'm concerned, this is no less worse than the Enron or Worldcom crooks, and I hope someone goes directly to the slammer.

MarkTPA · Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:17 pm

Wow, I had not heard this latest development about ATA, I went there last year for my Instrument and Multi-Commercial. I left there in April of last year as they didn't have a bridge partner that was sound and I thought something was up.
The above statement is correct, the Williams family holds all of the key management positions at both the Flight Academy and at Discover Air which the own. It has been rumored that the Williams have been funneling money from the flight school into Discover Air for years trying to make it take off and now it appears as if that just might be the case.
Jhopper, I would be extremely careful about using Discover Air for anything, if the maintenance is as bad there as it was at the flight school, the I certainly would not get on one of their aircraft.
I had trouble getting my money for the Airstage II refunded. I had to fight with them for many months. I would recommend getting an attorney, because if they are really out of money the only way you are going to get anything is to go against them personally or against Discover Air.
If anyone needs anything, or wants to talk more, please e-mail me at
[email protected], I am not sure if I can help, but I did attend the school and might be able to give you something you can use.

KLAX · Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:31 pm

Well that is scary! Sad

I hope all these people can find an alternative and get their money back.
I'm thinking of going to UND, sounds good, and not liable to go belly up like these private school Smile

-Clovis

DeltaJAX · Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:49 am

I will be going to the Comair Academy in Jacksonville for flight instruction as part of a 4 year bachelors degree from Jacksonville University. Good thing Comair is part of a successful airline like Delta that likely will not go belly up.

acvitale · Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:54 am

Segment King is actually incorrect. Williams is as much at fault as anyone the father and sons. He ran the day to day and some of the allegations that are being made are likely correct. Only investigation will reveal the dark ugly truth.

This one unfortunately has been rumored for some time. I wish I could say I was surprised.

ACVitale

mjzair · Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:23 am

What is even worse is this... those who relied on student housing are now out of a place to live as well... saw on the news last night that they were told to leave their apartments as well...
Very Sad indeed.

acvitale · Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:55 am

Here is an interesting article on the dark world of ATA/Florida Air Holdings/Discover Air/Flight One/RATECH and more....

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/S00214.htm

ACVitale

[Edited 2003-03-04 00:07:22]

acvitale · Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:57 am

Edited above post to correct wrong link.

Must use capital S on end of link.

Post directly below has bad link I posted before try the one above

[Edited 2003-03-04 00:08:41]

BR715-A1-30 · Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:59 am

Their website is showing NOTHING!

Literally.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/s00214.htm

airlinelover · Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:18 am

Someone just emailied me this link, and says these people are associated with Airline Training Academy.. Anyone know??

http://www.discoverair.com

Chris

BR715-A1-30 · Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:21 am

Can anyone say......

LAWSUIT????

BR715-A1-30 · Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:24 am

Airline Training Academy, the parent company of Discover Air, was also toured by the Governor. Pictured is the operations center where over sixty-five aircraft are dispatched on a routine basis. From the website

mls515 · Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:49 pm

http://www.screwedbyata.org/

I feel for the people who lost their money. Simply terrible.

drewwright · Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:34 pm

It so very sad that people have lost so much money. Some students even lost the roof over their heads. The school was leasing apartments for them and on April 1st rent was due. 9 students plunked $55,000 down for school last week right before they closed!
My roommate was a CFI in training there and the MX problems before they closed were ridiculous. The Piper Arrow was broken almost every day! Just last week he had a inflight fire and had to declare a emergency in it.
I think the Williams family should be lynched and gutted like fish!

DRW

SegmentKing · Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:50 pm

ACV ~~

From everything I'm hearing from an investor of Florida Air/Discover/ATA etc, the Williams actually did some things right, but it was the pressure from the Hilliard side that was killing the operation.

Lets not even talk about an 'unnamed' Green Bay family that lost over $7 million in the Discover/ATA/Sunrise Airlines operation.... but then again, weren't we going after the Sunrise cert in 2000?? *lol*

-n

acvitale · Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:10 pm

Just had a flight depart the FLL commuter air terminal.

It was under the airline name

Air Florida Express, Inc.

using a Discover Air EMB120 to Cape Hatian.

It was full and they are still amazingly enough flying.

It is due back into Customs on the return leg at 2:25pm in FLL

Airline Training Academy Closes It's Doors.

Airline Training Academy Closes It's Doors.

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