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Flyawa
Topic Author
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 2:07 pm

Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:42 am

The first of 36 Boeing 757 aircraft to be used for the Song product was rolled-out today in Atlanta, painted with flourishes of lime-green on a white plane. The "flourish" is the original brand mark found in Song's logo. Song plans to utilize a fleet of 199-seat, all coach Boeing 757 aircraft at the average rate of one per week for 36 weeks beginning in April. Each aircraft will feature 33 inches of legroom, the most of any low fare product, and all leather seats. The aircraft interior is chambray blue, with accents of yellow, orange, purple and green, to create a fun and exciting travel environment.

In October, Song plans to introduce the world's most sophisticated in-flight entertainment system. Song is partnering with Matsushita Avionics Systems and EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ:DISH - News) and its DISH Network(TM) satellite TV service to provide a complement of on-board amenities, which when fully implemented will include: personal video monitors at every seat; all-digital, satellite broadcast programming; digitally streamed MP3 programming; pay-per-view programming available on demand; multi-player interactive games that allow play between passengers; and interactive iXplor moving map program with zoom capabilities and points of interest information and connecting gate information broadcast directly to personal in-seat video monitors.

Song bird leaves the nest...

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Photo © Jason Garnier

Better than most, not as good as some.
 
Eric505
Posts: 565
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 11:18 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:47 am

I think the livery is decent but would be better with more noticable titles on the fuselage.
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life
 
gr8slvrflt
Posts: 1485
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:49 am

How long before it's spotted with DL97 and DL99 nacelles and a black nosecone?!  Big thumbs up
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
Flyawa
Topic Author
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:55 am

Click on -view large-, then click on the tail number to see it while in the paint bay and in its previous DL scheme.
Better than most, not as good as some.
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1462
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:56 am

Well I have to say that the SONG livery looks very cheap to me. Where does it say the name? As you receive Delta Mileage and they want to be known as a Delta Partner (or airline within an airline) they should be more likely like the Delta Livery, at least the same colors!

Won`t be that sucessfull anyway!

I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:04 am

Rather poor c/s.

Hopefully it won't be around too long,Jetblue will finish it off.
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
scottysair
Posts: 6441
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:38 am

This is not wanting get fights against of jetBlue either and Song is very good airlines for itself. Well, we got more photos of Song into the a.net now and here it is:


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Photo © Gregg Stansbery
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Photo © Gregg Stansbery




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Photo © Gregg Stansbery
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Photo © Gregg Stansbery



Regards!

Scott W.
 
jhooper
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:41 am

My opinion hasn't changed. It's a dumb name.........with a REALLY dumb livery.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:50 am

A colleague of mine remarked on the crew bus that it looked like a white airplane had flown through a snot stream.  Laugh out loud

[Edited 2003-04-10 21:52:47]
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:54 am

I must admit that it looks 10 times better in the hanger shots than the outside shot... BUT remember that it was a rainy day today and we haven't seen it in the florida sun.

THEY COULD HAVE PICKED ANYTHING FOR SONG!!!! It's not Green Air. I would have liked to see plain white with a black musical note in the tail and SONG underneath a musical staff on the sides
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
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william
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:17 am

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIME GREEN!!

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
sllevin
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:19 am

You'll know what it is, that's for sure.

Won't be confused for anything else, except perhaps a used Kleenex  Smile

I hope Delta is successful at transforming itself into a major low-fare carrier.

Steve
 
727_Gal
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:26 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:43 am

Ok sure, I don't like lime green, but as I believe I said in the first thread about this, it is distinctive, and how many liveries can we really say that about these days? Yeah yeah, it does look like a eurowhite plane got vandalized by some teenage rascals, but I know it will stand out at first glance. Hopefully it will also stand out once inside the plane - and god, let's hope the seats don't match the outside, eh?  Big grin
 
BUFjets
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 9:27 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:51 am

I'm surprised Delta chose N67171 as a SONG plane. This 757 is one of Delta's newest 757's delivered in 2001. Why not re-configure an older cabin in need of updating? They must have pulled nearly new seats and panels out of this bird.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:55 am

I think it's not a bad livery. Or maybe my expectations have been drastically lowered since the unveiling of Northwest's atrocity.

Aaron G.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:14 am

90% white plus JMC-lime green...it's butt ugly... Embarrassment Embarrassment Embarrassment


I'm glad there's so much Blue out there...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
2cn
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:30 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:27 am

No uglier or boring to me then jetBlues livery.

I think the it is cool looking. Its fun.. not that all boring white body. Cant wait to see it in person.
 
av8rphx
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:10 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:02 am

This livery reminds me of the Apple Vacations livery.


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Photo © Chris Coduto

 
Guest

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:39 am

WOW!!!  Wow! Now that is one unique Livery!


I really fo like it!  Big thumbs up

WAY TO GO SONG!  Smokin cool


DeltaASA16

(wonder when the first a.net user has SONG in their a.net name??)
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:53 am

Surely they could've picked a better looking color than lime green. It wouldn't look so bad in red, I think.

And I wouldn't mind a nice big pair of musical notes on the tail.

But the 33 inches of pitch sounds great.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:07 am

I don't think Song is going to succeed, but I really doubt it will have anything to do with the livery. If livery determines success or failure, how do you explain Southwest (which by the way, I find beautiful (old or new) in it's own way.).
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8269
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:05 am

I'm very interested to see how Song performs, from the business aspect and how this will play out in the big shake-up in the airline business that we are currently experiencing.

You people have already counted them out before they've even flown a single revenue passenger. Lets wait until all the details come out about how this operation is going to be run. If they can keep costs low and command enough revenue, this venture will work. Take your opinions aside for a moment to see if this will actually work. Many of you people think it will fail simply because you want them to. You may personally not like them, or their livery and think that is a reason enough for them to fail.

Right now this industry is all about costs. If the price is competitive with other airlines, people will fly Song. Airline passenger service is basically a commodity these day which only product differentiation causing some people to choose one airline over another.

I'm interested to see if this business venture can work. If one of the majors can reinvent itself to recapture market share and regain lost revenue.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:30 am

Here's why I don't think it will work:

1. It is targeted at JetBlue but has costs that are 20% higher than JetBlue

2. It offers fares that are higher than the mainline Delta Product

3. It offers less than 7 day fares that are higher than JetBlue

4. It's planning on "People Express" style growth.

It is also allowing the passenger to accrue miles on the Skymiles program, in effect, allowing low fare passengers to take seats on International mainline flights. IMHO, from the fares offered on competing mainline flights, it's biggest competitor is going to be Delta. I thought that Delta's strategy was to send the "trash" passenger (their term) away from othe ATL hub. But it's considerably cheaper to still fly mainline thru the hub...based on the fares I've been playing with the past few days.
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:34 am

At least Delta is actually painting their airplanes...
 
Olympic A-340
Posts: 738
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:53 am

No offense to anyone, but someone must have been smoking something when they designed that livery. First Northwest, now "Song"....what is this world coming to??
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 4135
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:18 am

Personally, I like it. The world is full of airliners with stripes and horizontally-oriented schemes. The curves and whimsy of Song are appealing, and for an industry that needs differentiation, this is a good thing.

What I would suggest is the exact same template on each 757, but paint other planes purple, orange, etc. (the interior colors noted in the release). Spotters would have a field day, going for a sweep of the 'purple' Songbirds, the green ones, etc.

Chris in NH
 
CO 757-300
Posts: 297
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RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:29 am

what i think would be nice is if they varied in color...

for example a few planes green, some blue, red, purple, teal....
 
ont 737
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:39 am

Davis Neeleman gave us a great talk to all the B6 new hires (150 of us) last Monday. In it he talked about the Delta/Song thing. He gave some very interesting stats. He gave us the example of the JFK-FLL route. Rightnow the average DL oneway fare on this route is $82 and the average fare on B6 is $108. Delta is already undercutting B6 by $26 but B6 flies over 4x the amount of people with a higher load factor. Even with lower fares DL can't fill their planes. (I guess people are just really fed up with DL, or just people really like B6) They are desperate for something new. With DL's current costs they could not even break even at a 100% load factor. Actually it would come out to about 107%. Even if DL can get the $.07 seat mile they claim with Song they would need 100% to break even with a average fare of $82. Either way they still need to raise their *average* fares to breakeven. With B6's average fare of $108 our breakeven is around 56%.

So to make a long story short...... we are not worried.
 
UAL-Fan
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 1999 1:36 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:12 am

If Delta decides to take on Jet Blue, be afraid........
 
flydeltasjets
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:14 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:21 am

When people see that Song is a better product (more room, better in-flight entertainment, meal choices, etc), flying out of more airports, with Delta's frequent flyer benefits, I think that Neeleman might be surprised how quickly his fortunes change.



In short, he should be worried.

I know, others will answer that B6 will kill Song. We will just have to see, for the answer will certainly not be found on this board.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:23 pm

Delta is already undercutting B6 by $26 but B6 flies over 4x the amount of people with a higher load factor. Even with lower fares DL can't fill their planes.

Sounds like predatory pricing to me. Leo Mullin is out for blood, so I wouldn't put anything past him. Sounds like Neeleman is keeping detailed notes, which he might need for a court case. DL is going to throw everything they have behind Song; nothing infuriates high-cost carriers like someone having the gall to offer a good or better product with a lower cost structure. The density of the market, though, will probably mean that both will prosper instead.

Song's paint scheme is both boring and ugly at the same time. Aviation Week thought that their logo looked like a sperm. Wavy musical notes and clefs, perhaps with notes in various colors, would have been more creative and interesting.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
flydeltasjets
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:14 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:55 pm

I love how when lcc's (who have lower costs primarily because they pay their employees less - a fact, look it up in any 10k, wages and benefits are by FAR an airline's larget expense) undercut fares on a route, it's good business and healthy competition, but when a major does it, it's "predatory pricing."

Bring on the court case. How'd Legend do against AMR?
 
sllevin
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:36 pm

Actually, the average fare data is interesting, and not surprising.

The "low cost" carriers are routinely, if not entirely, getting higher average fares. It has to do with the public perception that jetBlue or Southwest or airTran is always the best deal.

Perception is a major part of the reality. I look at my parents, who don't even bother looking for other carriers. They just look to Southwest and assume that the pricing will be the cheapest. Delta, AA, UA could be offering $19 fares transcon, and unless they ran a big enough ad campaign that my parents noticed it, they wouldn't even be looking.

They don't go to travelocity, they go to southwest.com when they need to travel.

That's where Song can make a difference for Delta. If they can get it perceived as a low-fare carrier, they can make money, and not by filling every seat at bargain rates -- but by just filling every seat.

Steve
 
sharpnfuzzy
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:41 pm


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Photo © Jason Garnier



Wow, who threw up all over that 757?

horrible livery.....
 
ont 737
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:11 pm

On the FLL-JFK route B6 had to raise their fares or else they would have sold out the flights to far in advance. (and for those who don't know, B6 does not oversell flights) Rightnow B6 can't add flights fast enough. And also remember we are talking about *average* fares here. Walk up DL fares are still 2x or 3x higher than B6's. Song's business model is based on them getting $.07 CASM or lower. Only time will tell if that will materialize. B6 is at $.063 rightnow.

Also, contrary to what some *don't* want to believe, B6 pays their "crewmembers" (that refers to all employees) very well. Starting pay for airport crew is 10.50 with raises every year. On top of that everyone got 15.5% profit sharing in 2002 and the stock options and benefits are amazing.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:39 pm

"Predatory pricing" cases are VERY difficult to win. Among other things, it must be proven that the carrier is setting prices lower than costs. I don't believe there's ever been a successful DOJ prosecution of predatory pricing; correct me if I'm wrong.

Is Delta doing anything revolutionary or different, or are they simply copying Jetblue's model?

Historically, LCCs do well in bad economic times. When the economy turns around, Delta might regret losing all those mainline 757s to "Delta cheap" (Read: Opportunity costs)

[Edited 2003-04-11 07:39:54]
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
2cn
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:30 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:00 pm

Delta is already undercutting B6 by $26 but B6 flies over 4x the amount of people with a higher load factor. Even with lower fares DL can't fill their planes.

Actually, Song is quite full. For the next couple weels on the JFK-PBI route, looking at random days, theres pretty much 10 or less seats available on any Song flight on the route... I'd say not that bad for a start.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23412
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:03 pm

Horrible name.
Horrible livery.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2545
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:39 pm

For those who want to see the inside.......(check out the different colored bulkheads at the aft end of the cabin).

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/business/delta/photos/song/image3.html



[Edited 2003-04-11 12:42:28]
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
flydeltasjets
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:14 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:52 pm

ONT,

It's not a question of what people "want" to believe, it's a fact. JB and the other lcc's pay their people less than the majors. Look it up in each respective 10k, the costs are broken down quite nicely.
 
ont 737
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:27 pm

-Delta is already undercutting B6 by $26 but B6 flies over 4x the amount of people with a higher load factor. Even with lower fares DL can't fill their planes.
-Actually, Song is quite full.

Those stats were for last month. Song has not flown a flight yet.

Flydeltasjets
Its a little early for me right now and I'm not sure what you mean by "each respective 10k". Are you refering to B6's labor costs per seat mile. If that is the case, you need to take productivity into account. B6 does alot with what it has. There is no reduculous "job padding" that occurs at other airlines. I would say it is more like Southwest in that regard. We do more with less.
 
tu154m
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:08 am

ONT 737............
How do you make it in So Cal on $10.50/hr?!?!?!?!?!!? Please share your secrets!!!!!!!!
Steve
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
Stretch 8
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 4:00 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:11 am

199 seats? Probably a very tight seat pitch. Hello deep vein thrombosis. Ugly pain job. I would rather drive.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
mikeymike
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 6:52 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:28 am

6717 and all the newer aircraft were chosen to maintain a higher reliability on the turn times. Older metal have poor reliability records.

Song does not have any tight seat pitch. EVERY seat on song has 33" of pitch or more. JetBlue is a 32" cabin except for the last row which is 31". Song's exit row seats are pitched at 43" and 39", JetBlues are both at 38".

ONT-737 There were no stats for last month, 2CN was commenting on the upcoming load factor based on the reserved seating for the next month. 2CN is correct in that the flights are already pretty full.

The Livery looks very clean and crisp when noticed in person.
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:31 am

To whoever said "If Delta decides to take on jetBlue, be afraid....", I think the whole idea behind Song is to "take on jetBlue". However, Song's costs are higher, and they will, to a certain degree, take customers from themselves. jetBlue's product is better. jetBlue has the NY media machine praising them on a daily basis. Plus, Delta cannot continue to lose money, which they will, even with Song.

I don't think jetBlue is afraid....at all. In fact, quite the opposite. It's just more positive publicity for them.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5510
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:31 am

199 seats? Probably a very tight seat pitch. Hello deep vein thrombosis. Ugly pain job. I would rather drive.

Song planes will have a 33 inch pitch which is greater than JBLU.
 
vincent32
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2000 7:40 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:56 am

I think that a lot of Songs success has to do with reputation.
For example:
In ALB, a few years back we had a rush of LCC. Air Tran, Metrojet, Delta Express.... Anyways, there was word that WN was coming to town and after a month of service WN was doing great and FL was pulling out. Not to long after that Metrojet was gone and then Delta Express.

Just the thought of having WN in ALB made a lot of travlers excited: low cost, friendly cabin crew...
I think if Song (regarless of the colors or name) can make a good product that is reliable and passenger oriented, they may go somewhere.
But, only time will tell.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
"If it was cool to be a fool, I'd be the hippest guy around"
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:09 am

The interior is uglier than the outside. It looks like Martha Stewart was hired to design the cabin. And that's a bad thing. Selvaggio said on the news last night night that Song is going after the female marketshare, since he claimed that 75% of all leisure travel is booked by women, and 90% of all family leisure travel is booked by women, and no airline has tried to target women before; which explains this entire colorscheme.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7133
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:21 am

I'm not sure I see where the assertions that "jetBlue's product is better" come from; if song will be offering 33" seat pitch and in-flight TV's/music/gaming, not to mention the availability of food to purchase, that would strike me as being comparable to or better than jetBlue's service.

Most people don't care what the plane looks like, as long as it looks airworthy from the outside and inside (not that they could really tell from that either). Southwest's old livery certainly isn't pretty, but it sure is recognizable and it didn't stop them from becoming an incredibly successful low-fare carrier.

I think the success or failure of song will rest primarily with marketing -- whether Delta can create enough buzz to make it a desirable alternative to jetBlue (incidentally, the exact same problem faced by jetBlue at startup).
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:23 am

What will Song passengers say when they find that the vaunted inflight entertainment and meals costs them extra....

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