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jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:34 am

OMG! Worse that I ever expected. The interior is HORRIBLE! Delta, I sure as hell hope you guys know what you're doing, because so far I'm not impressed with a singe thing you've done with "song"
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7118
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:41 am

jetBlue originally planned to charge for in-flight TV and changed their minds. While song hasn't announced what (or if) they'll be charging for IFE, aside from a direct mention of "pay-per-view programming on demand" distinct from "all-digital satellite TV," I do agree that it would be a mistake for them to charge for what jetBlue offers for free.

We won't really know until the IFE rolls out in the fall, though.

It's pretty clear that meals won't be free, but Delta isn't offering meals on flights to Florida these days, and neither is jetBlue.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:46 am

Where are you seeing the interiors? They couldn't possibly be any worse than the psychedelic purple and orange that they kept on the 727's about 2 decades too long.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6441
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:49 am

DL_Mech,

Thanks for showing me with the cabin pictures the website for me and this is great to see with the new color seat onboard of B757-200 aircraft. I am hopefully that might will be flying on Song into the future. Well, talk ya later!

Regards!

Scott W.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:53 am

I can say pretty definitively that Martha Stewart would hate it... she's my idol.

I thing Song will do ok... but jetBlue is very popular and has the "hip" momentum behind it. DL will never, ever be "hip".

N
 
ScottB
Posts: 7118
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:09 am

Just as a footnote to my earlier comment about song's IFE, there was an article in today's Wall Street Journal about song and its strategy; one point made in the piece is that all the IFE but the pay-per-view movies will be free.

The target market for song is the "discount divas" -- basically women aged 35-55 who make travel decisions for their families.
 
Msh744
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 10:09 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:24 am

My two cents: Good Livery, Bad Airline...  Big grin

Fly jetBlue instead!  Smile

-Msh744
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:25 am

Will food even be offered on the first flight (2351)?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:33 am

How soon before I see these goofy looking things fly over my new apartment in MCO's flight path?
 
jmhLUV2fly
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 1999 4:15 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:33 am

It will be interesting to see how AirTran and JetBlue along with Southwest (the lessor of the competitors) will compete with Delta's newest weapon. Even though I do work the AirTran, I wish Delta the best, they are trying to make it just like everyone else.
Do note: in the photos where the Song 757 ship is in the paint hanger that the nose gear is not down and the gear doors are closed, that must be one strong jack if you ask me.
JMH
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6199
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:44 pm

Udo, my thoughts exactly.

But hell, if you put an idiotic name on a WN wannabe, why not have equally stupid color scheme?

Although the WN colors , although bad, do not approach the "Song" colors in that respect.

Song? Die a death equal to every other low fair divison before you. Foregone wish.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
j_hallgren
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 11:48 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:40 pm

Why does the lyrics from that "tune" :SONG sung BLUE enter my mind on this topic?
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
Guest

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sat Apr 12, 2003 8:40 pm

>>In ALB, a few years back we had a rush of LCC. Air Tran, Metrojet, Delta Express.... Anyways, there was word that WN was coming to town and after a month of service WN was doing great and FL was pulling out. Not to long after that Metrojet was gone and then Delta Express.<<

AirTran had one daily to MCO. At the end of '98, they cut all flights to MCO except 11 to ATL. They didn't pull out b/c WN was there.
 
mikeymike
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 6:52 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 12:08 am

a lot of pessimism on this thread...can't help but say that I plan on saying

Song SUNK Blue

quite shortly, however, I believe that at the end of the day Song will stop the market erosion of the North-South Corridor from heading to Jetblue and there will eventually be a duopoly.
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3532
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

Song Is Nasty!

Sun Apr 13, 2003 12:33 am

The song livery, the color is ugly. Song is not going to get jetBlue because they will not achieve that cost structure, and hopefully they will fail like Continental Lite or MetroJet. Hold on for a couple of years, and lets see what happens.
-Transaero Boeing 737-200
What now?
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7105
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 1:23 am

I think Song has a very strong chance against JetBlue. Both airlines are using relatively new planes, which will keep maintainence costs low. Pay is equal at both airlines, save the pilots, which are still under the Delta mainline contract. However, Song has some tools that JetBlue does NOT have. Delta's frequent flyer program is one of the best in the world: you can earn miles domestically on NW, CO, and UA, and internationally on airlines such SQ, EK, VS, AF, AM, and a lot more, with scores of destinations both domestically and international available to you. Also, miles don't expire unless you don't do anything for three years. With JetBlue, your choices are quite limited (I want to go to Chicago for free...I'm out of luck...) Also, their FF system is quite poor...I don't like the points expire at the end of the year and you only have one year to use your ticket...it is quite limited.

Also, DL has the facilities in place. There is no need to get new gates, etc., when entering a new market with Song; they have gates at all these airports already. However, JetBlue has to go shopping for new gates, etc. That saves time and money right away.

Also, DL has VERY DEEP Pockets. They can afford to let Song lose some money, even in this environment.


Jeff
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8257
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 3:30 am

THANK YOU!!!!!
, I wish Delta the best, they are trying to make it just like everyone else.


Thats what competitors are supposed to do. You people get all mad at the majors for their current structure. Then you turn around and get angry when they try to change something. There is nothing illegal with competition. JetBlue is not the end-all to airlines, neither is Song. So sit back and watch what happens. If it results in lower fares, better choices, more flights, and a more solid bottom line for DL, and JetBlue can remain competitive, its a win-win situation for everyone.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 3:35 am

I don't think anybody is getting mad about anything - Delta needs to improve it's profitability. Starting up a "carrier within a carrier" is, IMHO, not the way to do it. And the business rags don't seem to think Delta has THAT deep of pockets - although they are one of the majors (and I'll exclued SWA as a major) that is in better shape, most analysts give them about 13 months, if things don't change.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8257
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 3:49 am

Well, I just made that statement because some people make completely irrational statements. They think Song sucks because they don't like their livery. They want Song to fail, and make blanket statements that they will because they are infatuated with JetBlue.

Now, in my logistics classes we've examined numerous case studies about the airline industry including People Express, Southwest, Continetial Lite, and even MetroJet. If we, as undergraduate students can learn from these cases, you can rest assured that Delta has done their homework too. They have obviously looked through the past examples of what has worked and what has not worked in past "carrier within a carriers". The can learn from past successes and failures in order to hopefully produce a suitable product. Afterall, look at JetBlue, they learned lessons from past failures and modeled their business plan accordingly.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:34 am

Hehe...this says it all.

 
User avatar
spinkid
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:57 am

I think Song will have a problem with not having it's IFE operating when it's first flights do. People will think it's nothing special. jetBlue has been operating it's TV since it's first flight.


 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 6:17 am

I really don't think in flight entertainment sells tickets. Two things sell tickets - price and convenience. If the flight has a good price, but doesn't leave at a convenient time, someone might pay more to get a better time. If the price to change planes at a hub is cheap enough over a nonstop, people will choose it (and Delta mainline is pricing service at even better levels than Song...even for last minute travel). And, if given a choice between a flight with a decent fare and convenient time, but no in flight entertainment, or a flight with a higher fare and in seat TV, people will book the flight without IFE.

How much TV does one need to watch in a day anyhow? Books make for fine entertainment, and if you have to pee, you won't miss anything by getting up and going to the lav. Try it sometime.
 
UAL-Fan
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 1999 1:36 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 7:04 am

I think the interior looks cool. Bright and colorful. And personally I'll take a ride on a 757 over and A320 anytime.
 
PHXinterrupted
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:41 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 7:32 am

It's hard to believe that Song could be any worse than JetBlue...
Keepin' it real.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:24 am

Goingboeing nailed it right on. Nobody gives a rat$ a$$ about IFE. They care about some combination of price and convenience.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

Song Rolls Out

Sun Apr 13, 2003 10:43 pm

Thong Air HAHAH!!

That was a funny comic.
 
ont 737
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:48 am

"ONT 737............
How do you make it in So Cal on $10.50/hr?!?!?!?!?!!? Please share your secrets!!!!!!!!
Steve"

I think a better question would be how I was able to live on the 8.00/hr HP paid me when I worked for them at SNA.


" There were no stats for last month, 2CN was commenting on the upcoming load factor based on the reserved seating for the next month. 2CN is correct in that the flights are already pretty full.

I am not denying that Song's upcoming flights are not full, I never said they weren't. The stats I had were for last month are for *Delta's* (NOT SONG) JFK-FLL flights.


 
MarkTPA
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:54 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:38 am

Those new colors are putrid! It will be a Sad Song when they fall on their face. :-(
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:29 am

Here's a little something to spice up the mix... DL should save its money re-configuring the 757s, and simply buy jetblue. Neeleman is used to having his airline bought by a major (Morris Air & WN) and he and his investors will walk away with loads of $$$. Dave could make buddies with Leo & stay on with DL (like he did with WN) and show those fuddy duddies how to run an airline profitably. We get to keep the 757s on mainline, and DL get's it's profitable LCC to help cover its arse on the unprofitable mainline service. All the DL employees can keep thier saleries becasue the hard working schmucks at jetblue would be making up for thier lack of profit.

It's a win-win!  Smile
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
meechy36
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:47 am

I read through 70 something posts and I could not believe how many of them think this airline will fail because of a livery or interior design. Do you think the average consumer cares what the color of the aircraft is or if the seats are blue or purple? You know what it comes down to? Price and schedules. If customers cared what livery a company had, do you think Southwest would still be in business, how about Valuejet and the Critter? The average passenger couldn't tell the difference between a 777 and a 737 and I know, I am a flight attendant. I can't tell you the amount of times I have been asked what kind of plane this is, and this is often right after the safety video/demo and with a briefing card a foot and a half in front of them. I've had passengers think they were on another airline, most people do not pay attention to their surroundings and are not paying attention to what color a plane is. As for the IFE it is not the big thing that people on this board feel that it is. I don't know anyone who would fly a different airline to get a movie or a bad TV show. More and more passengers are bringing their own DVD players or watching what they want on their computer. They are more interested in Powerports than IFE.

I hope SONG does well, I just wish my airline had something like this in the bag instead of just Chapters 11 and 7.

Mike-BOS
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:36 am

Where are the interior pictures?

I can't view anything on the AJC site...
no wire hangers!
 
j_hallgren
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 11:48 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:13 pm

I think Mike-BOS has it correct...as a pax with some interest in aviation (thus my interest in this board)...I looked mainly at price and schedules when booking/flying...the name of the airline was not important...(unless it was SWA, which I ignored due to method of seating)...as was the color of the planes, so could have been purple/pink/orange combo for my purposes...
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
Ryefly
Posts: 1328
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:56 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:20 am

Here is a picture of the seats UA744Flagship:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Corey Robinson



Wow, are those seats ugly! Anyone have a guess why they are blue? It almost looks like Southwest Canyon blue from this picture.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6441
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:07 am

WOW!!! This is very nice seat inside of Song. I like it alot for myself. I'm will trying to chance flying on Song for this year. Well, thanks for showing me with those photos of the seated.
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: Song Rolls Out

Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:13 am

There are several things that SONG brings to the table, and will likely be introduced to the mainline if successful.

First of all I would like to mention something regarding salaries. All pay groups stay the same with the exception of the f/a's. They are on a schedule totally diferent from their mainline counterparts. The hourly pay is slightly less, however there is a greater flexibility to fly more hours and gain higher pay. The scheduling goes as follows.

Preferential bidding.You load paramaters into a computer, what days off you'd like what type of trips, 1 2 or 3 days. Then a schedule is generated with 3 days a month dedicated to "reserve" status.

The benefit to mainline is as follows: It allows for a sizeable operation to become a testbed for concepts. Just the work rule changes alone makes for a more productive workforce. The DL mainline will not pay for the software upgrades necessary to transition to this type of system until it can be prvent hat it works and indeed produces a cost/benefit premium.

Song will fly freight. 757 cargo space relative to an A320 or a 717.

Song has a seating premium of around 40 - 50 passengers relative to an A320. It can charge less than JB or FL and make more money.

Free computer technology from DL. And far superior technology at that.

Maintenance functions from DL in hangers at various cities. FL made a few million last quarter. When their hanger gets up and running and their first planes come in for HMV in 2 years.....Look out Nelly!!!! We got some new bills to pay! Same goes for JB. How much does it cost to build a hanger in JFK? Maybe they can get the lease on the USAir hanger in TPA and do their repairs there.

Agreed that DL cannot sustain losses for another year. The bottom line is that they will need to retain their customers. It's a company that's been around for more than 70 years. It is run by some of the brighter senior managers in the industry. Who's the guy in front of Congress on Capitol Hill speaking on behalf of the industry? Mullin. What's Neelemans end game? His history is the Stephen Wolf school. Make it pretty then sell it. Then leave.

Final thought. For all of you future aviation professionals on this board. Rooting for the demise of these airlines. It's one less employer and 60,000 more people who are more qualified than you out on the streets looking for a job. Any 20 year old pilots in school out there? Get used to the notion of flying an RJ 6 legs a day from Dog Dick Delaware (DDD) to your feeers hub for 8-12 years until this industry is righted.

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