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BIK
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 1:32 pm

"The Americans deciding not to travel to France or Germany on vacation are spending their dollars where they want to because they like the idea of visiting countries that supported The United States."

I hope they have a great time visiting Nauru and Marshall islands...

 
cloudy
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 2:15 pm

I hope they have a great time visiting Nauru and Marshall islands...

------
That is simple ignorance. In fact, the majority of European countries supported the United States. One European leader wrote an opp ed supporting us that was signed by (if my memory is correct) over a dozen European heads of state. Spain, Italy, England, almost all of Eastern Europe outside of Russia, etc. supported us. Many Asian and American(in N. and S. America) countries supported us.

Are France, Germany, Russia and Belgium all of Europe? Excluding Russia, are they even half of Europe? Do you get the whole world if you add China? Come on now. This is one of many cases in which our opponents speak louder than our supporters, making thier side look MUCH larger than what it really is. And if you think we get support because of "bribes" etc. don't forget that France and its crew has been passing out bribes, etc. as well.

My guess is that many countries in Southern Europe and in "new Europe" (Poland, etc.) support us because they resent France's attempt to set up Europe as a block dominated by itself and Germany. Also, they know what not having freedom means. They are willing to sacrifice to preserve+expand democracy and capitalism, because they both are keystones of human liberty. They are glad that we stood up to old Europe's arguments for appeasement in the cold war. They even remember how old Europe sold eastern Europe out to appease the Nazis at Munich. They remember how France let Germany break its agreements and reoccupy the Rhineland. This was a situation VERY similar to what we faced recently in Iraq. Germany had broken a treaty meant to retrain its aggression and Western Europe was not willing to use force to hold its to its obligations. When Europe listened to the liberals and made deals with Hitler, we got World War II. If we had listened to European liberals in the cold war, there is a good chance that there would still be a Soviet Union today. Gorbachev himself has admitted this, as have other Soviet leaders. Unlike us Americans, many people in Europe outside of France and Germany have long memories. And these memories do not always make the French and the Germans look good.
 
jcs17
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 2:15 pm

I think that you will see a fairly minor downturn in US-originating traffic for Air France, maybe 3-5%. I doubt Lufthansa will come off as much, if at all. The real bone Americans have to pick is with the French and not the Germans. Germans are still viewed as a friendly people, for the most part, in America. While you definitely cant say the same for the views of the French in America. I dont think AF will have to reduce service, but it could harm them slightly in the long run.

As for me, I try to avoid French products. I couldve used an Air France ticket to Europe this summer, but will probably opt to either fly Swiss or British Airways.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
kellmark
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fall

Thu May 01, 2003 2:16 pm

Its not a question of visiting countries that support us. But we don't have to visit places that are actively against us. The French were aiding Saddam and reporting to Saddam the substance of meetings with us. And, I note that this week the French Foreign minister is having a lovely little visit to Iran. That is where the Revolutionary Guard death squads force the families of the victims to pay for the firing squad bullets. This from a country which if not for the armed forces and sacrifices of Britain and the US, would still be speaking German. I have been to those Normandy cemeteries. I used to think that the French would have a real understanding of the difference between a murderous thug and those who are trying to free his victims. They used to have the same problem. Now, they have reversed those values. And that is why I will not go to France.
 
Unique
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 3:36 pm

Pilot1113, well said! I do the same! I boycot everything from the US, spending my money domestically, too.
I shall not travel to the States as long as the Bush gang is steering as I don't want to be discriminated.
No offense to the americans I personally know, they're all nice! I'm against the politics, that's all!
 
Sabena 690
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 3:41 pm

Some people really need to grow up...

I'm heavy against the politics of that stupid cowboy/idiot in the white house, but I will still enjoy the glass of coke I will drink this afternoon, together with the glass of good french wine I will drink this evening.

/Frederic
 
Unique
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 3:42 pm

Frédéric,  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up


 
swake
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 7:10 pm

Unlike us Americans, many people in Europe outside of France and Germany have long memories. And these memories do not always make the French and the Germans look good.

Unfortunately memories in quite a number of European countries don't go back more than a few years and I don't even want to refer to WW2. Just remember the war in Bosnia and the following massacre in Kosovo when European governments had to face painful embarrasment for not being able to solve this crisis in their own backyard. In the end the Americans had to pull Milo's plug before even more damage was done.
Personally I am not a fan of G Dubya's policy but I was and still am outraged by the way our government treats this country's most important ally.
 
F4N
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 8:45 pm

To all:

The current diplomatic flap between the US and France will probably continue for some time although it will continue mostly on a diplomatic front and nowhere else. That said, I also believe that the notion that anti-French sentiment in the US is limited to some sort of right-wing element or minority is naive at best and foolish at worst. A glance at most p/o polls published in any variety of publications(including liberal ones) indicate that popular disappointment with France is rather more widespread. Nontheless, I doubt that such things will impact anyone's personal choices for airtravel or anything else.

Far more worrying that nominal boycotts or renaming of items or articles is the tremendous trans-European and trans-Atlantic split created by the cynical and shallow(and failed) attempt by the Chirac administration to utilise popular anti-war sentiment to create some sort of French-dominated political, economic and military bloc to provide a "counter-balance" [read oppose] to the US. This is the rift which will be far more difficult for the world than anything else. Dubya has a long established reputation for valuing loyalty
and for an unforgiving memory of opposition. While I'm no fan of his administration and its' policies, the war is over and the dictator is gone; rapproachment with dissenting allies is now part of administration policy, except for one; France. While dissent is a normal part of any democratic process and one where all will undoubtedly put national interest forward, France went way beyond that. French interest in re-establishing themselves as a dominant diplomatic, economic and military power to rival the US is not new; it was essentially one of the conerstones of De Gaulle's policies. However, the attempt to utilize the UN inspections as a lever to protect Iraq (and France's considerable economic interests there) and deliberately thwart US policy against the Iraqi regime threw off the veils of diplomatic niceties. Iraq was not a friendly, little country being bullied by a super-power which needed stronger friends to protect itself. Iraq was a dangerous, Stalinist type of state which had long harbored territorial ambitions and had used any means to quell opposition and achieve its' goals. Chirac's attempt to manipulate this showdown to the diplomatic and political gain of France(and himself, incidently, considering the scandals being investigated with some ties to him and his party) at the expense of the US simply could not be perceived as anything but a major political and diplomatic challenge by the US; Dubya in particular. I do not believe that the consequences of this will be resolved anytime soon, especially since Dubya has every intention it seems of running for re-election.

In short, no, this won't really affect air travel . It will not change my opinion of Europe or Europeans; they are simply not going to look at everything as Americans do. However, the rifts created by French policy will have long-standing and far-reaching consequences which we only are beginning to see.

My thoughts...

Regards,

F4N

 
aaer 777
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Thu May 01, 2003 8:47 pm

Please please folks, it is obvious from the beginning of this trend that there is no foreseeable concensus that can be reached on the topic. You could still be discussing when the media have dropped it for something juicier and more attention grabbing (did I hear someone mention SARS?)
The next couple of points that I would like to make are not a stance (it takes too much energy, first to have a stance, then to get bogged down into defending it) but mere observations:
I was quite astounded by the level of commitment of the mass media in the US to "selling" the war and its necessity to the American public.
It was a lot harder for their British counterpart at first (I am refering mostly to the US style SkyNews) but they seemed to gain momentum when the conflict actually started and they were able to produce some real "sit back in your seat, this is action-movie pictures but even better cause it's for real pictures".
The French media is not as obvious at breeding basic anti-American sentiments but is very insiduous nonetheless and more tenacious also (little jibes and sarcastic remarks can leave a long lasting impression.)
My impression is that only a minority of people in Europe (I don't go the US often enough every year to form an accurate opinion about what its people think, as opposed to what its mass media tells them to think...) were in favour of a military intervention in Irak.
It is done now. There were real people killed in the process, on all sides, and nothing will bring them back.
I just truely hope that some sort of good will come out of it for the Iraki people, otherwise it would have been a shameful waste.
I do not care where the oil or reconstruction contracts go, it will not affect my daily life significantly. I just hope that all parties involved had more than just a short-to-mid-term plan of action. That's my hopes. My feeling is that this marks the beginning of serious complications between the US-old style Europe- the Arab world. But then again, maybe I shouldn't believe all that is written in the press and definitely not all that is shown on TV.
It is so easy to create beliefs out of pictures. I'll give two examples:
50 people jumping on the decapitated statue of Hussein does not convey the feelings of a city of millions but it is a very powerful image.
Bottles of french wine being poured on the street also creates a powerful image. Well it creates of powerful image for me, which, if I were inclined to believe it, would prompt me to get onto the next flight to anywhere in the US (cause surely, these thousands of gallons of wine must be dumped everywhere from Miami to Bozeman, Montana) and lap it off the road (even though Chilean cabernet sauvignon is a personal favourite)
Which part of "NO" do you not understand?
 
hkg82
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Fri May 02, 2003 1:53 am

I’m pretty sure the overwhelming majority of the American & French people don't give a shit about US-France relations. I mean, sure they do, but not to an extent that it would affect their choice of business or leisure destination, what they purchase, etc. They just go on & carry about their normal lives.

Hkg82.
 
cloudy
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Fri May 02, 2003 11:39 am

Please please folks, it is obvious from the beginning of this trend that there is no foreseeable concensus that can be reached on the topic.
----

We have of course not reached a concensus regarding the war, the behavior of France, or the merits of making one's political views affect one's purchase decisions.

But we DO seem to have come to a concensus on the original topic of this thread. Few seem to think that any boycott of France will have any long term impact on traffic or trade between those two countries. Maybe a small to moderate impact in the very short term. But in the long term, life goes on. Havn't seen to many disagree with that. Those who think this is a long term problem seem to mean it is a long term diplomatic problem between the France and the US. Almost no one seems to think there will be long range economic repercussions.
 
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johnboy
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Fri May 02, 2003 4:55 pm

IMHO, most of the people that say they will never travel to France or Germany are the type that stay within 50 miles of their respective hometowns all their lives anyway.

So really, Cote d'Azur or Costa Brava, it wouldn't really add up to anything significant.
 
kevi747
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Fri May 02, 2003 6:09 pm

OK, as a gay, flaming-liberal, male F/A, let me just say that I have no problem with the French. (Well, yes I do.) I don't appreciate being treated like shit by Parisiens. Ever since this stupid war started, Americans have been treated with the same generalized disregard that people are accusing Americans of feeling towards the French.

"You're American!?!? You hate us all!" "Why do you come here when Americans hates us so much?" (both actual quotes of things people have said to me in Paris recently) I'm sick of hearing it. Not all Americans supported this war, so I think non-Americans need to start recognizing that.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
Joni
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Fri May 02, 2003 6:12 pm


These US-originated posts that claim French opposition to the war in Iraq was motivated by inferiority complexes and plots of global domination are typical examples of playing the man, not the ball.

If you look at the facts of the case, you see that Bush (who is, in Europe, widely considered to be a psychopathic dictator) wanted to launch an invasion of a country in order to overthrow its government on shifty motives. No links to terror or evidence of imminent threat of WMD attack against the US had (or have) been discovered, and the Bush administration made it plain all along that the invasion was going to take place regardless of what the Security Council decides or the inspectors find, or don't find. The support Bush got for this preposterous plan stems primarily from one motive, that being states and individuals that wanted to appease the US.

 
swake
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 12:54 am

I'm sick of hearing it. Not all Americans supported this war, so I think non-Americans need to start recognizing that.

Neither did all froggies, krauts or ruskies supported their govts stand on Iraq.

...that Bush (who is, in Europe, widely considered to be a psychopathic dictator)

Crap. A manipulated redneck at most. At least he keeps the carpet clean.
 
North County
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 1:07 am

To those who say the boycott will not have an effect or will become a non-issue as time goes on, I have to ask you to qualify your prediction simply as your opinion.

No one really knows what the true effect will be….

Many Americans are very disappointed in France's actions during the period leading up to the start of the Iraq war. They have been some economic effects in the consumer goods area already, as a sizable number of Americans don’t want to buy French products.

Only time will tell if TOURIST travel to France from the UNITED STATES is affected in the long haul.


[Edited 2003-05-02 18:14:41]
 
BUFjets
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 1:08 am

Cloudy wrote..., "Few seem to think that any boycott of France will have any long term impact on traffic or trade between those two countries. Maybe a small to moderate impact in the very short term. But in the long term, life goes on. Havn't seen to many disagree with that."

I think it depends on Chirac. If he continues his sneaky, self-serving dealings with nations that sponsor terrorism, many Americans will continue to feel unpatriotic about buying anything French.

I am still not buying anything that I know is French. I also wouldn't travel to France now either. I know many other professional, educated people who feel the same. Is it enough to have an effect on France's economy? Time will tell. I think we need to look at flight loads this summer. Many people who are traveling to France now bought their tickets before the war.
 
konrad
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 1:48 am

I just booked a Miles&More award ticket for a trip from the US to Europe in May. I did the booking only two weeks in advance and the only transatlantic flights which had award seats open were UA IAD-CDG and ORD-CDG. So I am connecting at CDG which wasn't initially my choice. I would think that May shouldn't exactly be low season for flying into Paris. But this year the fights seem to be empty. This is in contrast to US introducing a second PHL-CDG flight this summer.
 
magyar
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 2:58 am


I think many of the ''boycotting'' people do not understand the new
reality of the World.
In economical sense, there is no such thing as ''old'' or ''new''
Europe, or as a matter of fact ''American'' or ''German'' product.
Most of the companies that produces for export in the former
Communist Bloc, for example, are owned by foreign investors (mostly German,
French, Japanese, and of course American). So if you favor the product
of a Hungarian (and German owned) company over those of a French
(and American owned) one, what good that makes? And there is no way
that an average person can track down this bundle of investments and
ownership and make a distinction. Just to illustrate this point read http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/outlook/1892726 .
The most interesting part is:

>>
·Of the 10 largest employers in the United States, five are European firms.

·Seven million Americans owe their livelihoods to European investment and 6 million Europeans to U.S. investment. U.S. firms invested more than $750 billion overseas in the 1990s, roughly half of which went to Europe.

·Nearly three quarters of all foreign investment in the U.S. in the 1990s came from Europe, about $659 billion.

And, what of that mother of all business -- China? Sales by U.S. affiliates in all of China during 2000 were roughly equal to the U.S. affiliate sales in Sweden (about $32 billion), less than one-tenth of those in Germany and about one-fourth of those in France.

Mexico? Despite the North American Free Trade Agreement, during the 1990s U.S. firms invested half as much there as they did in tiny Netherlands, $34.1 billion to $65.7 billion. There is more European investment in Texas alone than all U.S. investment in Japan.

Rather than drifting apart, the European Union and the United States have already produced a web of commercial links that is unprecedented and dwarfs the links the United States has with any other part of the world.
<<

So, before one tries to make a statement, please, take a moment for thinking and
do not try to temper with something that can come back and hit you in the
face later.
 
North County
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 4:47 am

Magyar,

In this case I have been talking about Tourist travel to France and to a lesser extent Germany.

The average American planning a vacation, if the present public disapproval with France’s action on the Iraq subject holds, will not journey to France, but pick other countries in Europe for a vacation. Spain, Poland, Hungary and Italy are mentioned quite often as alternate destinations for an European trip.

If a French company makes a buck or two off an American family’s trip to Budapest then so be it but the majority of the dollars would still be spent in Hungary and not in France.

Time will tell if the American public has a short or long memory in this case.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 5:01 am

Time will tell if the American public has a short or long memory in this case.

The same time will tell if the European public has a short or long memory in the case of how that idiot in the white house handled the iraq war.

/Frederic
 
North County
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 5:24 am

Frederic,

Seems some Europeans have already forgotten that a past US president won the Cold War.

They also called him a "Cowboy"

But back to today- seems the French president was all to eager to phone President Bush after the coalition won and try and patch things up....
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 5:29 am

I'll have to agree with North Country. I have a buddy pass on DL to use and I was considering either France or Italy. Well let's just say it was easy to make my decision. I don't hate the French, I kind of feel bad for them. I can see why they're annoyed with us.

I do, however, feel that the French seriously dislike us, and that sentiment was strong even before the war. I could give you stories but I don't have time to type them all right now, but if anyone disagrees with me, I'll be glad to type them later...

Jeff
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 9:00 am

Most people have a short attention span. Remember the Dixie Chicks, having the audacity to speak freely? There were burnings and bannings, their CD tanked for a WEEK or two and then went back to number one.

Like Bogey says, we'll always have Paris.

And another truism: "This too, shall pass"
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
North County
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 9:06 am

From Bill O'Reilly's "Talking Points"

"OK. There was some good news this morning. According to the French government tourist office, The Factor led boycott has cost the French economy about $500 million so far. More than 40 percent of Americans who planned to travel to France have modified those plans. We say good until President Chirac apologizes to all Americans for putting us in danger, the boycott stays."

Very interesting.....
 
Joni
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 7:59 pm


I think this discussion has drifted quite far off topic.

With regard to the concept that Reagan would have "won the Cold War", I thankfully don't recall encountering it before, but it's of course good news that Republicans are still in touch with their creative imagination.

With regard to the Iraq war, it really amazes me how many Americans (not all, of course) appear to hold a completely uncritical view of the Bush administration's motives and actions and how the US media, while privately owned, yet manages to give a flawless impression of being state-run.

 
Hugo Lucke
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 8:17 pm

One thing strange about this topic, not one reply from France, the command of the english language reportedly poor over there seems to confirm itself here....
 
Guest

RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sat May 03, 2003 10:26 pm

North County wrote:

"Don't minimize or ridicule how Americans now feel about France, Germany and Russia. Also don't understate how much higher we view Eastern Europe, Spain and England."

Speak for yourself and your fellow narrow-minded O'Reilly-quoting reactionaries, North Country. As one of the posters above mentioned, those Americans who travel widely and have seen much of the world aren't likely to be affected by this nonsense (How many countries have you visited?). Most people are smart enough not to choose the countries they visit because their governments happen to have political views different than their own, or because they dared to oppose Bush too vocally. Europeans could easily stop traveling to the US just because of Bush -- that would be equally senseless and, yes, ignorant. Your views are an embarrassment to many other Americans, and certainly worthy of ridicule.

BTW, the general populations of virtually all European countries were against this war, so why not boycott the entire continent as long as you're acting this way?  Yeah sure

"I wouldn’t call someone “ignorant” simply because they chose to travel to a county other then France or Germany due to those countries lack of support for the coalition efforts in Iraq."

I would. Of course, the same applies to any Europeans who would choose not to travel to the US just because of Bush and his policies. Remember, they can boycott us as well.

"International travel does not make you “smart”.

Not necessarily, but it generally makes most people (at least those who travel widely) more open-minded and less ignorant. Maybe you should travel more...

[Edited 2003-05-03 15:41:46]
 
klwright69
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sun May 04, 2003 12:06 am

Back on the subject, I noticed that CO will have double daily nonstops from EWR-LGW again, but not EWR-CDG (according to what I saw at continental.com). Isn't that ironic? Despite what some have said there are some tangible effects in certain places, not just general reduced travel everywhere.

I have a friend from Romania and speaks about the horrible oppression that existed there, not surprisingly she was very pro-U.S. during the Iraq war (gee, and someone said that only the Marshall Islanders were on the side of the U.S.). She laughed when she heard some Europeans say that G.W. Bush was a "cowboy." After having lived in the U.S. for years she was amazed these people (who are self-deluded into thinking that they understand Americans well) actually think calling someone a "cowboy" is an insult. She went on to say that if Europe were threatened again with tyranny on their continent, all these Europeans who "look down" on American "cowboys" would be calling on those same American "cowboys" to rescue them within a microsecond (now there is a surprise). It's the same thing on the Korean peninsula. The same South Koreans who angrily scream anti-U.S. slogans and burn U.S. flags would be crying for the the "big, evil, imperialistic" U.S. to rescue them if they withdraw their forces and little Kim sends millions of troops over the border to "liberate" South Korea.

A poster from Switzerland exhibited some real courage when he declared that he would boycott American products. How impressive. I am sure Coke, Pepsi, Microsoft, Disney, Phillip-Morris, Chase-Manhattan, GE, Ford, and Levi-Strauss are all hurting now as a result of his choices.
 
VirginLover
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sun May 04, 2003 12:49 am

Both of my flights JFK-CDG CDG-JFK on Air France were not only packed, but over booked, I thought we were going to have 2 seats to ourselves  Sad The flight there was filled of school trips, and the flight home was filled of business men and women.
 
LMP737
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Sun May 04, 2003 1:05 am

Gigniel:

".......especially those with years of military service then long airline careers."

Do you have anything to back this ridiculous statement up? Of course you don't, because quite frankly you do not know what you are talking about. What you have done is make a blanket statement without thinking about what you were saying. Then you turn around and call people ignorant. Personally I think your own words fit the definition.

Guess what, I served in the US Navy and I work for an airline. I also believe that all this talk of boycotts, on both sides of the Atlantic, is laughable. The only people who get hurt are the little guys. It's the gentlemen who owns a McDonald's franchise in Paris or the lady who owns a French restaurant in New York that pay the price for other peoples foolishness. In addition, as an employee of an airline with significant trans-Atlantic routes I would be cutting my own throat by going out and saying "Boycott Europe, stay at home for vacation!"
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
North County
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Tue May 06, 2003 12:55 am


PHX-LJU,

Maybe you could "try" and provide trade, tourist figures, expert predictions or some kind of data other then your opinion that others are narrow minded, ignorant, reactionaries.

I spoke of tourist travel from the United States to France. The average American family doesn't make annual trips to vacation in Europe. A trip overseas is a major expenditure both emotional and financially. I brought up the O'Reilly info showing 40% of Americans changing their travel plans to France.

Keep to the facts without trying to degrade those who disagree with your opinion. You don't need to travel far to learn that is what is called an educated debate.

To others:

The Cold war statement was made to show how quickly some Europeans forget recent historical events brought about by Reagan's policy in dealing with the USSR in the 1980s.
 
speedbirdyvr
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Tue May 06, 2003 1:19 am

"Americans will voice their opinions with their American dollars"

Which won't go very far these days! A very stupid comment actually, or maybe you don't read economic news these days. The Euro is soaring right now, and so is the British Pound, Canadian Dollar and Swiss Franc! Bush really needs to get his act together or be replaced because the US$ has been sliding down to levels not seen before in history.
 
exusair
Posts: 658
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RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Tue May 06, 2003 1:43 am

My goodness how we've touched some nerves around here....

OK back to facts....Travelocity mentioned that it's "hits" on it's website for fares between the states and Paris were down more than 30%. This was provided several weeks ago, sometime around the 1st week of the war.

FACT: Around 30% of the citizens of France were for the war in Iraq. This is rarely noted in the media.

France has done several things to protect its interests in Iraq. For France, Germany and Russia it was about the oil and the industrial contracts. There are links to terrorism. Links to Al-quaida and Bin Laden, he was hosted by the Iraqis several years ago.

Please do not assume that all Americans are dumb and unworldly. Our nation is built on diversity and is the fabric of our society. I do not call the Swiss Nazi Profiteers. I do not call the Germans decendants of frenzied mass murderers. I do not call the French blatent socialists with a grander scheme of domination in Europe with the sole purpose of sticking a stick in the eye of the Americans. So please stop calling us dumb rednecks.

I have spoken with several people who have recently returned from Paris. I get mixed answers when queried about attitudes of the French towards Americans. Either the Parisians are concerned about Americans not returning to France and spending tourist dollars and are very accomodating, or they are harrassed while walking down a street and treated poorly in restaurants.

I have never witnessed surly behavior towards French or German citizens in the states solely for their nationality. Germans still flock to Florida. French still come to Disney and other cities in the states. I think the instances of prejudice are more realized by Americans in Europe than by Europeans visiting the states.

I have a friend who is a major wine distributor in Atlanta. French wines aren't selling too well nowadays. I'm not too sure that this behavior will just go away anytime soon.
 
Pilot1113
Posts: 2276
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:42 pm

RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Tue May 06, 2003 2:32 am

>>Pilot1113, well said! I do the same! I boycot everything from the US, spending my money domestically, too.
I shall not travel to the States as long as the Bush gang is steering as I don't want to be discriminated.
No offense to the americans I personally know, they're all nice! I'm against the politics<<

Have fun! It's your money.

- Neil Harrison
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Tue May 06, 2003 2:34 am

Over 60% of the American population were against the war. Some 80% of the British public was.

So technically, we need to be boycotting ourselves, too.

N
 
North County
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:52 pm

RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Tue May 06, 2003 2:52 am


Topic Check:

Is the diplomatic fallout between France and the United States affecting travel to France?

The topic was NOT if the People of a country supported a war – the issue with many (greater then 50%) Americans was what the French government was doing to counter the U.S. efforts on the Iraq issue.

That is why some Americans are boycotting French goods and choosing not to travel to France.

Please note that French business interests have put pressure on the French government to kiss and make up quickly with the U.S.
 
North County
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:52 pm

RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Tue May 06, 2003 3:09 am


Speedbirdyvr,

You should call up the French business interests who are worried about the US boycott. They need your info on the slide of the US economy.

And to think that the French president called Bush shortly after the coalition took control of Iraq...

What was he thinking?
 
LMP737
Posts: 6076
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: US-France Traffic; Affected By Diplomatic Fallout?

Tue May 06, 2003 4:51 am

Gigniel:

Upon further examination I realized that you may have been trying to be sarcastic. If that's the case try putting the sarcastic smile next to it.

P.S. If you're wondering what I'm talking about look up my previous post on this thread.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.

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