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artsyman
Topic Author
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sat May 24, 2003 9:29 am

This is all that US air needs at the moment...., still losing Millions per day, while already emerged out of chapt 11 and then this...

"This no confidence vote means the relationship between the (Air Line Pilots Association) and US Airways is going to become one of a more legal, combative nature," union spokesman Roy Freundlich said on Friday. "There will be a significant elevation of legal activity."

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?storyID=2809352
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sat May 24, 2003 9:38 am

Before you guys rush off the blame the pilots (as I know you will)...remember, theres probably a reason why they've voted like this. Blame the management instead.
 
737heavy
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:05 pm

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sat May 24, 2003 9:42 am

Yes after all it's not the pilot who make the decisions. They are the one making the money.

Regards
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sat May 24, 2003 10:17 am

Hey, the fact that they were robbed of their pensions and gave up a hefty chunk of their incomes in the interest of "saving the airline" then seeing management going on with the same old same old broken discredited business plan that continues to lose $$$ at near record rates...may just have something to do with the pilots' vote.
 
US A333 PIT
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2001 8:36 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sat May 24, 2003 11:26 am

Why are they complaing about the "tonnage" of the recent RJ order? These RJs are what are going to bring back so many of the furloughed pilots that were laid off after the down turn. What do they care about the size of the aircraft? I can understand being pissed off about the pension deal, but here it just seems like they're looking for things to bitch about.
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4115
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sat May 24, 2003 12:21 pm

I'm almost to the point where I wish Dave Chapter 7nd the whole thing just to stick these pompus asses out on the street and make them junior to everyone else in the world. US Airways is full of extremely senior pilots from Allegheny, PSA, and Piedmont...they don't know what it is like at the bottom of the food chain. I feel sorry for the rest of the US Airways employees...but to the pilots, I hope Mesa gets all the 70 seaters they can.
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Manage

Sat May 24, 2003 2:30 pm

"Bottom of the food chain"? Guess what, 'boy', that's where the fruit of their labor for 20, 25 or 30 years has gone--to the bottom. You work all your life for the "carrot" of a good pension only to have it stolen by the management and lawyers right before you retire--how's that make you feel?

Jobs for the furloughees? Sure, at Mesa SCAB wages. Anyone can get a job paying $35k/year with a B.S. degree. Why would anyone waste the $25K it takes to get your basic ratings or spend 8 years sitting on a boat for the Navy with the potential of being a ERJ FO as your "career goal"?

It ain't like the rest of the USAir employees have been making minimum wage all this time...TC
FL450, M.85
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4115
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sat May 24, 2003 6:02 pm

I love union blowhards that throw the SCAB word around like candy on Halloween.

I'm sorry...if you are intelligent enough to be a captain of a A330, you are intelligent enough to know - you don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you are making 50...60...100...or 200k a year, you always put some away in an IRA or other retirement fund that the company, or anyone else, can't touch.

This superiority complex pilots seem to have over the "we saved US Airways single handedly" is nauseating. Everyone had their own part in it, even Management. Let's be honest...if pilots wanted it their way - the company would have liquidated by now because they wouldn't have budged much on pay, work rules...and definitely none on retirement.

It gets old listening to people who think their stuff don't stink or that they should have something when it isn't fiscally possible anymore.
 
sk
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:04 pm

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sat May 24, 2003 6:54 pm

"union spokesman Roy Freundlich said on Friday"

You know that "freundlich" in german language is friendly  Wink/being sarcastic
 
762er
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2001 8:18 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sun May 25, 2003 3:53 am

If pilots are so smart in the first place than why don't they just get a job doing something else where they'll make more the 35k/year. My only question was, why is it such a big deal to the pilots how heavy the planes are that they fly? I can understand the pension thing, but it's not like management is "stealing" that money as was stated above. The stock market and interest rates simply crumbled and the company doesn't have enough money on hand to make up for it without liquidating. It's as simple as that. US Airways had been a poorly run airline for years, nobody can argue that. But now it's getting it's bearings back to become a carrier that actually makes money (you don't say!). Tell me if I'm wrong AA717, but it seems like you think that Dave Siegel and upper managements should take money out of their earnings to pay for the pension plan that failed because of poor planning by Gangwal, eventhough that really wouldn't even make a dent in what is owed. They are responsible for the mistakes of their predecessors. Well I can tell you that if that was the case those guys would never have gotten on board in the first place and probably that US Airways wouldn't be here right now. Instead of having just a couple thousand people furloughed you'd have about 45 thousand people looking for jobs and another defunct carrier. Bitching isn't going to help the case.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sun May 25, 2003 4:09 am

I agree with Ouboy. But for the management talent of Dave Siegel & Co., most USAirways pilots would be pounding the pavement right now in real dire straits. I am talking worse than loss of pension. Rather it could be more like trying to find jobs flight instructors, at Home Depot, and wherever. As painful as wage cuts and pension losses are, it could have been far worse for ALPA.

762er,

The union deals have scope clauses that often turn on the size and weight of airplanes.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sun May 25, 2003 4:35 am

762er,
most airlines pay a pilot based on the plane. If you fly a 747 then you will make more than a pilot flying the 737. So that is why they care about the plane, the CRJ'S suck compared to a Boeing or Airbus plane.

ual 777 contrail
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 4207
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sun May 25, 2003 7:16 am

"Bottom of the food chain"? Guess what, 'boy', that's where the fruit of their labor for 20, 25 or 30 years has gone--to the bottom. You work all your life for the "carrot" of a good pension only to have it stolen by the management and lawyers right before you retire--how's that make you feel?

Economic restructurings are always bitter for those involved. US management was between a rock and a hard place--reduce the pension, or Chapter 7. The choices were, smaller pension, or 36,000 people (including many non-pilots) on the street, only some of whom would get airline jobs again. It would help, of course, if management at most airlines had a clue about how their golden parachutes make employees in this situation feel, but that's another story. (As best I know, Siegel doesn't have a bankruptcy-proof pension like AA's Carty did)

Union boilerplate about management "stealing things" is more or less meaningless these days. Markets dictate what airline costs can be, and they have determined that regulation inflated them; 9/11 simply sped a long a process that has been underway since deregulation. Markets do not submit meekly to book-length collective bargaining agreements.

A "no confidence" vote of course is a symbolic gesture; it's part of collective-barganing posturing. Is there some vote coming up on something, about which the pilots want to rattle sabers? If so, this is a pretty serious posturing step, and one that's going to complicate things.

Who knows, unions might be able to finish off US Airways yet. Steve Wolf did his best to kill US, and ALPA might accomplish what he couldn't. 70-seat RJ's are pivotal to US's survival. Even a longtime US Airways critic like myself has to respect David Siegel's amazing accomplishments, and express dismay at a step that could help ruin them. There could be a place in the new USA airline world for a US Airways that has a lower cost structure, one that doesn't require gouging communities.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
N628AU
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 4:20 am

RE: US Airways Pilots Vote No Confidence In Management

Sun May 25, 2003 7:43 am

Well said Jim.

AA717Driver,

You need to crack a dictionary and find out what scab means, because to use it in this context shows your ignorance about how the real world economy works.

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