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triley1057
Topic Author
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 3:29 pm

Cost Of Diversions

Fri Jun 06, 2003 4:23 pm

Yesterday, a KLM 747 enroute from AMS-IAH had to divert to DFW due to severe weather at IAH. I was just wondering how much it costs an airline when this happens? I imagine it has got to cost quite a pretty penny. Also, if a passenger gets sick in flight, is there any insurance that covers this or do the airlines foot the bill?
 
Guest

RE: Cost Of Diversions

Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:33 pm

Diversion costs are beyond my mind... as a pilot, I keep that it mind, I go if I am absolutely, positively sure I am going to get where I am scheduled to go.
xxx
Suppose my flight is with 300 passengers, Buenos Aires to Madrid...
One hour out of Madrid, despite good weather forecast, Barajas is below minimums, will not improve for hours...
xxx
So we land in Barcelona... it is not our staff, it is Iberia handling us, the crew is tired, need to locate hotel, then hotel (airline obligation) for passengers, this will be say... 200 rooms at $100 each... "airline discount rate"...
xxx
Some passengers had ongoing reservations, Iberia does not care much, it is not their passengers - they rebook them on other flights out of Barcelona.
xxx
The return crew (who was in Madrid) is flown to Barcelona (on Iberia) and we have to pay for these tickets - no discounts - "must fly..." and our passengers in Madrid wait for our plane, are given a lunch and a drink at the airport, miserable food at twice the price of normal restaurants...
xxx
Our plane goes to Madrid (we decide to fly as passengers with them) with the fresh pilot crew. Takes 15,000 liters of jet fuel to do so, and we have to pay handling and landing fees incurred in Barcelona... $3,000... the fuel, I dont even mention...
xxx
And I can keep going on like this, since I forgot the little extras here and there... Diversions will kill a perfectly good airline... In this example, we were lucky we did not have to put the 270 passengers awaiting in Madrid in a hotel. That could have happened, would have been 200 extra rooms again...
xxx
And - obviously - the passengers say "this darned airline..." and make us responsible for the weather. I am happy to be a pilot, and not our Madrid airline representative... the worst job in airlines, for these guys - to "work" a diversion...
xxx
After all, happy contrails - the "other airline" would not do better...
(s) Skipper
 
blink182
Posts: 5370
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Cost Of Diversions

Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:17 am

B747Skipper-
Say a bunch of pax were headed to BCN originally with a connection in MAD, what happens then? Do they get refunded for reservations not used(say the MAD-BCN part was Iberia)?

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Guest

RE: Cost Of Diversions

Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:40 am

Good question Blink - I am not an expert of ticketing subjects -
But essentially, if it is a ticket written by AR... we got them to their ultimate destination... no changes, obviously no refund...
But if they bought a ticket to Madrid from us, then separately an IB ticket, which is not part of the full fare (2 separate fares) - they could try to get a reimbursement... dont know what IB will say to that...
xxx
Honest, if you think it is difficult to "become a pilot" - makes me smile...
Ticketing agents have probably the most difficult job. If you call 3 times an airline, and ask for ticket you will be quoted 3 different prices... If you in turn go to 4 travel agents, they will theirselves quote you 4 different fares...
At least I know it takes exactly 323,500 lbs of fuel to make to Madrid...
The ticket, may be... $898.50, or... $772.88, or... $1,248.oo, or...
xxx
I know (and it has been my case many times) airline employees buying airline employee discount tickets - we call that ID tickets - which are technically 50%, or 75% or 90% of the price of the full fares... sometimes a full fare paying passenger pays LESS for his seat than... an airline employee...
And that passenger is a customer. If the plane is full, the employee is politely asked to vacate his seat for the customer...
xxx
No thanks, when I vacation at the beach in Brasil, I drive my car...  Big grin
(s) Skipper
 
triley1057
Topic Author
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 3:29 pm

RE: Cost Of Diversions

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:37 am

That is very interesting. My impression has always been that if a plane has to divert due to weather, the plane lands at a different airport and waits out the weather. When things clear up, the plane is refueled and takes off again for the original destination. Is that not true?
 
UAL Bagsmasher
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:52 pm

RE: Cost Of Diversions

Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:18 am

It costs a lot more than you might think to divert an aircraft. Each aircraft costs a different amount, with larger airplanes obviously costing more. Let's just say the last time I looked, you could buy a nicely equipped SUV for the amount it costs us to divert a B744.
 
triley1057
Topic Author
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 3:29 pm

RE: Cost Of Diversions

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:54 pm

That's amazing. Is there insurance that airlines have for non-weather related incidents such as air rage or sick passengers?
 
Guest

RE: Cost Of Diversions

Sat Jun 07, 2003 8:13 pm

Airlines have insurances (hull - and liability) - correct...
xxx
Diversions for sick passengers - as mentioned above - happen at times.
Not too long ago, flying MAD to EZE while we were somewhere between Canarias and Cabo Verde, a passenger got a heart attack. By chance there were two doctors on board and I immediately asked them what to do, they said "land immediately" - ok - "where?" - that passenger needs to be in a hospital, and we had to select one - I know that in Sal, Cabo Verde, there is nothing much in medical facilities - so the doctors did their best to care for the passenger, we elected to land at Recife, Brasil, where good hospital facilities exist... but to land there, we had to dump a little fuel not to exceed landing weight... upon landing, the ambulance was there, the passenger's life got saved - we incurred handling fees, landing fees, fuel costs, delays, rescheduling of connecting passengers... but nobody got mad... we saved the life of a passenger... that is all that counts... insurance probably paid.
xxx
By the way, we were on phone patch (HF) with Stockholm Radio, they got us on phone link we a few hospitals, one of the doctors coordinated everything with us, the hospital... Stockholm Radio, their team of radio operators had a lot to do in helping us maintaining multiple phone lines.
xxx
Mange Tak, Stockholm (and Ake Schroeder there  Smile )
(s) Skipper
 
AerMickey
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:55 pm

RE: Cost Of Diversions

Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:27 am

I was watching a special on the Learning Channel about Hijacking. They gave an average figure for the 757/767 capacity range and it was about $50,000 to $75,000.


Mick

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