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SJCguy
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Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:01 am

I heard Richard Bronson himself say on Fox News that they will be taking the Concordes come September...what happened to that?

SJCguy
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:08 am

reality set in maybe?

AF announced the musems they'd be sending Concorde to, and BA will still be flying theirs into October..... so where are Branson's Concordes supposed to magically originate from?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
cedarjet
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:13 am

The planes aren't up to it, even if BA didn't mind. As it happens, they do mind. Anyway it was never gonna happen, even if we wanted to. The Concorde thing is typical Branson, he's into British institutions, the airline are always first off the mark to serve the military in war, they were the first into Baghdad after Gulf Wars both 1 & 2, and I don't think it's just for the publicity, I think Branson really believes in it. As well as Gulf Wars 1 & 2, the airline itself is a direct result of the Falklands War, before which no-one really knew where the Falklands were, afterwards it was like, hey, if these islands are worth fighting for, how come no airline flies there? So Branson (music biz geezer)'s big post-war patriotic fugue was to start an airline to fly 747s on this obviously lucrative and mysteriously underserved route from Heathrow to Port Stanley. By the time someone told him there was only about a thousand people living in the Falklands, he'd been bitten by the bug and the route he started with was paper airline British Atlantic's LGW-EWR license instead.

[Edited 2003-06-06 21:42:03]
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
SEA nw DC10
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:15 am

Don't give him the third degree...he's asking a question based on somthing he heard from a somewhat reliable source. Somebody of his standing making a statement on national news to that size is usually not somthing done unless there's at least an ounce of truth...we'll see.

SEA nw DC10
 
SJCguy
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:19 am

Ok, that explains a lot CedarJet, thanks! Too bad though...

SJCguy
 
UN_B732
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:41 am

Branson should get the Concorde, it's the British Taxpayers call...not Rod Eddington's and BA's call...
-UN.
What now?
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:44 am

I think it was actually Airbus that said no. They said they couldn't/wouldn't afford to help maintain the jet - since then, Branson has gone quiet.
 
777236ER
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:50 am

Branson should get the Concorde, it's the British Taxpayers call...not Rod Eddington's and BA's call...

The teenage American hath spoken. BA owns their Concordes. That's all there is to it.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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Plane Holland
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:53 am

"Airbus said no"...... no wonder.. they rather keep playing safe , no subsidies no concorde
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:20 am

I dont think the average british tax-payer is too concerned with concorde, a few decent hospitals and an end to tuition fees would be great.

The concorde fleet is owned by BA, they did a favour by taking them on and running so long.

UN_B732 - if you lived in the UK, you'd realise how much people dislike Branson and his tacky band-wagon hopping tactics...believe me BA is doing us all a favour by not letting them have concorde, he'd turn a dignified and beautiful institution into a tacky circus act. You dont know about the uk, or what its people want or need, in the long run some airplane isnt a big issue in our future.

You know what they say...best to quit while your ahead.
 
RIX
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:29 am

"if you lived in the UK, you'd realize how much people dislike Branson" - good to hear this.

"The teenage American hath spoken" - was this necessary  Smile?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:31 am

Branson should get the Concorde, it's the British Taxpayers call

I'd bet the private millions that BA has spent on Concorde maintenance and operation would beg to differ  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
777236ER
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:44 am

"The teenage American hath spoken" - was this necessary

Given that he's telling the UK government and people how to do things, yes.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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Plane Holland
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:51 am

Why not give it a go? Let Branson try to operate the concorde. Then see what happens.

It's always a personal thingy when people don't want other people to do something they might do better..

rgds. Plane Holland
 
Thrawn
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:56 am

"If you lived in the UK, you'd realise how much people dislike Branson and his tacky band-wagon hopping tactics...believe me BA is doing us all a favour by not letting them have concorde, he'd turn a dignified and beautiful institution into a tacky circus act".

What a complete load of B******s that is. I think you will find that Branson is one of the most respected entrepreneurs in the UK if not the world.
Where do you get your info from, yes he is a master of self promotion but at least he has the balls to do something when it is worth while doing or saving.
I would rather see concorde flying cargo round africa than sat in some stuffy museum.
I have wondered if it means so much to BA why they didn't try and get the design authority from airbus and take it on themselves. But then in this day money talks and the beancounters would never allow it
They would rather employ more managers at there great white elephant in middlesex!!!!
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:58 am

"Branson should get the Concorde, it's the British Taxpayers call"

Yeah well the two British taxpayers in this discussion have spoken, so respect our opinions! If you all lived in the UK you'd realise  Smile

End of story

 
GDB
Posts: 13634
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:00 am

Here we go again;
BA made it work.
BA did the major cabin upgrades, flying it 40% more than AF meant we hit the maintenance issues first too.
BA developed the charter market.
BA saved it 20 years ago by taking over the government's share of it, when they were going to pull the plug, by making it profitable, when we were privatised Concorde contributed to the success, and the government got a £900 million windfall in 1987 prices.
BA pushed the return to flight mod programme after the accident, BA's greatest ever Engineering challenge.

So Concorde people are affronted by the suggestion that we owe the government, much less Branson, anything.

But this thread is a fair question.
Branson met Airbus, he said the meeting was positive and he'd be back in 2 weeks.
Well that two weeks has been and gone,
We deal with the same Airbus people, they told us it wasn't going to happen and they told Branson just that.
They will not support one operator, AF have pulled the plus so we are screwed, Eddington could not even get support up to next April as we wanted. Thus preventing us flying next winter's BGI season which we had sold tickets on before the retirement became an issue.
If they will not support the lead Concorde operator, what chance has VS, with zero experience on the type?
Not that it has ever been easy for us, with all our experience.

Branson, for his own PR purposes, has raised people's hopes, he knows the layman will blame BA no matter what.
This issue affects me directly, you don't have to believe me on this, if you still choose to believe the bearded hype merchant that's up to you.
One more time; Branson will not operate Concorde, he could not if he tried.
End of story.


 
cedarjet
Posts: 8783
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:01 am

Thrawn is right, Branson is course widely respected in the UK and elsewhere. If it wasn't for him BA would still be like cold war style Aeroflot and you'd pay about four times more for your ticket. Ditto many other industries he works in. I know there is a certain fraternity who resent any kind of success but he's on the people's side, unlike most members of the share-options brigade. Anyone with half a brain is glad he's around.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:02 am

BA DC-10, let's face it, your characterisation of Branson as univerally loathed by the British public is inaccurate to say the very least...I personally have nothing against him whatsoever - he runs a fantastic airline which provided me with better service than that available on BA (not to say that BA isn't generally good too).

If it wasn't for the costs, I would certainly have nothing against Concorde in Virgin colours.
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:10 am

"What a complete load of B******s that is" - nice to know you can express yourself in a civil way...dont give it loads matey. Im expressin an opinion, which myself, and people i know hold, so dont jump down my throat darlin....

Where do I get my info from...well ummm lets see, oh yeah, try getting a train from Birmingham to London which runs on time...then ask the commuters what they think of Richard Branson. You'll be gettin a few b******* then....


He may not be completely hated, but dont make him out to be some guardian angel of britain, if you knew what really happened behind the doors of virgin...you'd think twice. Undoubtedly their are many in Britain that have done far more than him, but do they get realised?


[Edited 2003-06-06 23:15:53]
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:14 am

**I dont think the average british tax-payer is too concerned with concorde, a few decent hospitals and an end to tuition fees would be great.**

Hmmm, the average British tax payer doesn't complain about paying for other British traditions like the Royal family that is powerless and just kept for show.
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:14 am

It is not all about costs, I don't want to seem arrogant, but, I work on the aircraft, I know something of what is involved, and the idea of Branson operating it is a joke.
(If he did not know that before, Airbus put him straight more than two weeks ago).
Even if Airbus allowed it, which they won't.
What part of the above can people not understand?
 
[email protected]
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:20 am

UN_B732 - if you lived in the UK, you'd realise how much people dislike Branson and his tacky band-wagon hopping tactics...believe me BA is doing us all a favour by not letting them have concorde, he'd turn a dignified and beautiful institution into a tacky circus act. You dont know about the uk, or what its people want or need, in the long run some airplane isnt a big issue in our future.

Not true.

Branson is unique, his style of PR and antics certainly makes a few enemies. But his knighthood is recognition of his entrepreneral contribution to the British economy and Britain is as a whole, not to mention he created a fab airline from scratch! Having said that and after having read GDB's analysis, it looks like a lost cause.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:29 am

"Hmmm, the average British tax payer doesn't complain about paying for other British traditions like the Royal family that is powerless and just kept for show"

yeah like im bothered about an American's view on the monarchy!?

end of story.
 
AvObserver
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:40 am

Topic: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

SJCguy: "I heard Richard Bronson himself say on Fox News that they will be taking the Concordes come September...what happened to that?"

Do us a favor, SJCguy; get independent verification before you post a thread like this-you make it sound like a news fact while in reality, it's based solely on a statement Branson himself made. This will save GDB from redundant typing efforts to present his ever impeccable knowledge and logic on why Branson's campaign cannot possibly work. Though I'd personally like to see Concorde fly in Virgin colors if no one else will fly her, I agree with all of the sound points GDB makes as to why Branson will never get her. They're based on rational facts and not pie-in-the-sky dreams. Once I see Virgin ink an agreement with British Airways with all of the funding in place to purchase Concordes and with Airbus to provide continued support, THEN, I'll believe him. That, however, seems about as likely as pterodactyls returning to the skies!  Big grin




 
Leezyjet
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:32 am

"Where do I get my info from...well ummm lets see, oh yeah, try getting a train from Birmingham to London which runs on time...then ask the commuters what they think of Richard Branson. You'll be gettin a few b******* then...."

It's always easiest to blame the people you paid your money to for the bad service, but sometimes things are not their fault. Virgin Trains is spending millions of pounds on new rolling stock to try and improve things, but as succesive British Governments over the past 20-30 years have failed to invest in the stuff that actually allows the trains to run i.e. Track and Signalling then the train operators (not just Virgin) have to suffer and as they are the companies that the public deal with on a daily basis, they get the brunt of the blame for the terrible services that railtrack (or whatever they call themselves now) provide.

It's the same in aviation. The passenger buys the ticket from the airline, gets told his flight is delayed by 2 hours due to slot restrictions, but as far as the passenger is concerned it is the airlines fault for the delay, not the ATC system as the passenger is not dealing with ATC directly like they are when dealing with the airline.



 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
LHR340
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:28 am

I have a lot of respect for Branson he left school early (due to family problems...I think) and thought he woudn't get any where - and look at him now he is a major name, he owns 2 airlines, a cola, CD shops, Virgin mobile, and islands. I think what he has done with his life is great, and has made A LOT of money out of it....foget the world being ruled by monkeys the world will be ruled by BRANSON  Laugh out loud or should I say Virgin..

LHR340
A340 LoVeR! EC-GQK - LHR The Bussiest International Airport & 3rd Bussiest In The World!
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 12:48 pm

Branson DOES get an easy ride in the press, that's how he gets away with his BS.

He maybe should have privately contacted BA on this, rather than conduct such a public campaign. We'd have told him the awful truth, like how without critical spares support from BA, AF Concorde would have ground to a halt weeks ago, the level of support we've been getting from Airbus for months now, the upcoming maintenance issues (nothing really big in the short term, but even the small things on Concorde cost a huge amount).

In the past that's not been an issue, but when airlines are struggling, BA feel, rightly or wrongly, that they cannot expand Concorde services, thus reducing revenue.
We may think aspects of BA's marketing of Concorde has been at fault lately, certainly we've issues with how Engineering management has run it since late 2001, but you've got to look at it from a 27 year perspective.

When he was running his record label, Branson had The Sex Pistols on his books.
At their last concert, an aggrieved Johnny Rotten told the audience, "ever had the feeling you've been cheated?"
Those of you who are sad at Concorde's demise could apply that statement to Branson's antics recently.
 
aamd11
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 11:54 am

RE: Virgin To Acquire Concorde...what Happened?

Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:07 pm

Get over it, as GDB points out, it aint gonna happen, live with it.

It's sad to see her leave the skies... just be glad u wont be drinking from one of the fleet in a few months time.
They will be going into good retirement, museums etc to be preserved.

There is no way Branson will be flying Concorde, as GDB has said time and time again in thread after thread, the experience isnt there, the costs are spiralling, maintainance is becoming a bigger issue over time.
Is it not true that for each hour of maintainance on todays widebodies (A340 or 777) concorde needs 10 times as much!? (IIRC quoting the AF Concorde artical a few months ago).

Branson has made it worse than it had to have been by going around telling everyone how he will step in and rescue the aircraft...
Personally, i dont think he really thought he would ever get any aircraft, he went along with it anyways, its great, free, very easy PR.

Also as pointed out, they are BA's aircraft, not the British Taxypayers, as of whenever BA bought them off the goverment and went it alone...

Just let it be, the Branson to the rescue threads are wearing thin... very fast.

A^A MD-11

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