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deltadude8
Topic Author
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 12:09 am

DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:22 am

Yesterday I was in ATL from 17:00 (5pm) to 21:00 (9pm) and I sat where I could see the runway that I know the MD11's use. I didn't see one in that whole time...is it just me or are the becoming extinct really really fast?

Does anyone know when the last MD11 flight will be and where it will be to?

Thanks,
DELTADUDE8
 
deltadude8
Topic Author
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 12:09 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Sun Jun 08, 2003 10:25 am

I was just checking all of DL MD11 routes and I came up with two...

DL 12 ATL-LGW

and

DL 55 ATL-NRT
DL 56 NRT-ATL

IS THIS RIGHT?
 
tu154m
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Sun Jun 08, 2003 10:41 am

GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:06 pm

GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll agree. The M11 did have its heyday with DL once, and served it well... now, their time is over.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:23 pm

Where did the two that were parked at the MCO gates go? I drove through MCO today and didnt see them.

They were parked there not moving for a couple weeks last May. Did they go to the desert?
 
cicadajet
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2000 1:54 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:05 pm

They've been scarce at JFK for many months..only 1 or 2 all day sometimes, though we did some extra for Mil charters not too long ago.
 
Guest

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:15 pm

I'll agree. The M11 did have its heyday with DL once, and served it well... now, their time is over.

Of course you'll argee - you're bias to the B777.

Personally, I could care less about the technical aspects of the MD-11 vs. B777. The MD-11 have wider seats than the B777... if DL would've installed PTVs into them, they would've been superior in terms of pax comfort.
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
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RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:55 am

The MD-11 looks great in Delta's colours:


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Photo © Kai Hildebrand



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Photo © Ben Pritchard



They are disappearing, there was a post posted on these forums not long ago showing how many were left.

DC-10
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:21 am

What's going to happen to all those businesselite seats?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:01 am

Of course you'll argee - you're bias to the B777

 Insane

So I guess being forced into unscheduled stops on both of my outbound ATL-NRT trips (because the [email protected] thing couldnt make it without refueling) would have nothing to do with that assessment as well? Get real.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:06 am

The MD-11 have wider seats than the B777... if DL would've installed PTVs into them, they would've been superior in terms of pax comfort.

Assuming of course the PTVs didn't start a fire that made the damn thing crash. The MD-11 was a dog, let it die.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:08 am

So I guess being forced into unscheduled stops on both of my outbound ATL-NRT trips (because the [email protected] thing couldnt make it without refueling) would have nothing to do with that assessment as well? Get real.

Because we all know Delta's entire operation is identical to two specific flights in history.  Yeah sure
 
deltadude8
Topic Author
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 12:09 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:45 am

The MD11 stops to refuel on the ATL-NRT route?

 
strickerje
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:35 pm

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:53 am

Assuming of course the PTVs didn't start a fire that made the damn thing crash. The MD-11 was a dog, let it die.

What's the basis for that statement? How is it possible that there was a severe safety issue with installing PTV's?

Also, it's not "dying;" rather it's changing jobs. Saying "its time is up" is somewhat inaccurate, as most are just approaching 10 years old. While it has been replaced with a superior product for passenger service, it will stay in freight service for decades more.

I've been on Delta's MD-11 once, from LAX-ATL, and enjoyed the trip very much. I would have liked to fly on it long-haul one day. Perhaps I'll still be able to do so on another airline, but I'll miss the Delta ones.

-Jeffrey S.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:03 am

What's the basis for that statement? How is it possible that there was a severe safety issue with installing PTV's?

After the SAS crash there was a bit of a stigma about installing PTVs on MD-11s. There certainly aren't a large majority of them flying with PTVs.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:10 am

I assume that you are referring to the crash of SwissAir 111, correct?

That accident had more to do with the PTV system that was installed on the aircraft by a third party firm.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2003-02-16-swissair-investigation_x.htm

[Edited 2003-06-09 00:14:50]
 
mikeymike
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 6:52 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:17 am

The BusinessElite Seats have the same width on BOTH the 777 and MD-11 (21.5"). THe Business Elite seats on both aircraft have PTV's in them.

The Y/C seats on both aircraft have the same 17.5 to 18" width on them.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:19 am

That accident had more to do with the PTV system that was installed on the aircraft by a third party firm.

Nevertheless, it stopped other MD-11 operators from installing PTVs as readily as they might have liked.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:45 am

Personally, I believe that many operators didn't install them because the MD-11 just didn't/doesn't fit into their long term plans.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:02 am

Personally, I believe that many operators didn't install them because the MD-11 just didn't/doesn't fit into their long term plans.

Swissair certainly removed all of the PTVs on the MD-11s.

Can you name ANY MD-11 operators with PTVs? Off the top of my head I can't think of any.

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/sr111/IFEBan.html
http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/sr111/gamingsystem.html

Two interesting articles. I think certianly there has to be stigma attached to PTVs and other IFE systems i nthe MD-11, and explains partly why carriers like Delta aren't installing them, and speeding up their retirement.

The MD-11 was supposed to compete with the 777 and A340. It failed badly.

On another note: it seems this crash doesn't do much to bolster the arguments in favour of ETOPS for twins. This was a tri-jet and suffered from a lack of fire-supression over water. If this was a twin you could imagine many many vocal voices calling for the halt in the expansion of ETOPS...
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:28 am

No, no I can't..

My point is, by in large, PTV's have been a product of the last five to seven years or so. Many of the larger MD-11 operators have been making plans to remove the aircraft in that time span (Delta, Swiss, Aer Lingus, Alitalia, etc). It didn't make any sense to spend all of the money on a product that would have an incredibly short life span.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:38 am

My point is, by in large, PTV's have been a product of the last five to seven years or so. Many of the larger MD-11 operators have been making plans to remove the aircraft in that time span (Delta, Swiss, Aer Lingus, Alitalia, etc). It didn't make any sense to spend all of the money on a product that would have an incredibly short life span.

Delta, Swiss, Alitalia etc weren't planning on removing the aircraft seven years ago. If anything the Swissair disaster and the IFE problems only added to the other problems the MD-11 faced, decreasing its time with airlines.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
deltadude8
Topic Author
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 12:09 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:18 am

So I guess being forced into unscheduled stops on both of my outbound ATL-NRT trips (because the [email protected] thing couldnt make it without refueling) would have nothing to do with that assessment as well? Get real.

THE MD11 for DL doesnt make a stop for the ATL-NRT trip...Aren't I correct?

The MD11 is a great tri-jet. By far the most comfortable and most roomy Wide Bodied aircraft out. It is quiet and flies smooth on every flight I have ever been on with it.

It is in my opinion the greatest looking aircraft that we see today.


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Photo © Kazutaka Yagi
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Photo © Jonathan Derden - SPOT THIS!



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Photo © Jonathan Derden - SPOT THIS!
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Photo © Andrew Hunt



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Photo © Andrew Hunt
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Photo © Alexander Jonsson



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Photo © Andrew Hunt


I love how it looks like it is JUMPING off the runway

And it has served DELTA AIR LINES with some history of carrying the Olympic Tourch to ATLANTA!

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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt
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Photo © Remi Dallot




 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:00 am

Regarding refueling for the ATL-NRT leg -- it is generally not required, only in case of severe headwind. I've made that crossing several times and never had to refuel.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:04 am

From what I hear, this bird is a "bitch to fly," (from the pilot's perspective) please excuse the expression. Most everything I read about the MD-11 had the word "failure" or "problem" in it. It's just too bad..

Cheers,
FSP
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:06 am

Because we all know Delta's entire operation is identical to two specific flights in history.

Perhaps, though what you [obviously] dont know is that these were nowhere near isolated events... PDX/ANC/CTS welcomed more than their share of fuel-hungry outbound DL MD11s throughout the years.  Insane



On another note: it seems this crash doesn't do much to bolster the arguments in favour of ETOPS for twins. This was a tri-jet and suffered from a lack of fire-supression over water. If this was a twin you could imagine many many vocal voices calling for the halt in the expansion of ETOPS...

This doesnt make sense at all... it should be the opposite: twinjets are the type required to possess fire suppression, so if anything this crash should have bolstered the arguement for model-wide ETOPS; not vice versa.

Not that it matters however... this fire originated in/behind the cockpit, not in the cargo bay.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
initref
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 12:28 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:30 am

ConcordeBoy said: Not that it matters however... this fire originated in/behind the cockpit, not in the cargo bay.

Are you the same guy as that as that idiot "Concordeboy" on Flyertalk? Because he/you said re: fire suppression "Bet SwissAir wishes it had chosen to do so with its MD11s! " in this post
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum88/HTML/001029.html

Glad to learn that you have learned a bit more about fire suppression & ETOPS since then - but clearly your bias for twin-engined widebodies is as amusing as those rednecks who swear by their favorite brand of pickup......

...and using a tragedy in a (flawed) argument merely to support your current aeronautical bias is callous and immature.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:22 am

I didn't realize the MD-11 was such a problem. It seems like any "extra" additions may cause a fire. Why is that?
Puhdiddle
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:24 am

What's going to happen to the Centennial Spirit?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:38 am

And just to think, 13 years ago, the MD-11 was Delta's Flagship. 13 years later, it went from Flagship to Flagshit. (Excus-uh me)

[Edited 2003-06-09 04:44:12]
Puhdiddle
 
mech24
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 1:15 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:38 am

The centennial spirit is going to storage like the rest of the fleet.
 
strickerje
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:35 pm

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 3:39 pm

If anything the Swissair disaster and the IFE problems only added to the other problems the MD-11 faced, decreasing its time with airlines.

Actually, inferior range and greater fuel consumption did the most to contribute to the MD-11's downfall. Delta has been planning to replace the MD-11 with a more efficient model for many years, and the replacement chosen was the 777. PTV's were not installed in coach on the MD-11 due to its uncertain future in the fleet. How many classic 747's, DC-10's, and L-1011's have PTV's? The reason is the same - they're nearing retirement. And the fact that the MD-11 has PTV's in first class on several airlines proves that they can be fitted with them. I really don't see how the decisions to retire the MD-11 early and not to install PTV's in coach can be a result of the Swissair accident.
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:54 pm

Well, I thought that this: "Actually, inferior range and greater fuel consumption did the most to contribute to the MD-11's downfall." was corrected by some upgrade programs. At the beginning of the MD-11 operation at Swissair, there were some fuel stops in Moscow, on the route NRT-ZRH, but since the various programs were implemented, the nonstop flight ened up as a real nonstop flight..... And on a side note, the PW4000's on the MD-11 share also a big part in the whole efficiengy issue. Is DL also operating the PW's?

Cheers, Thomas
 
deltadude8
Topic Author
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 12:09 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:14 am

Does anyone know when the Last flight will be or where it will be to...And I am not talking about to the desert
 
Guest

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:25 am

It should be DL56 from NRT-ATL.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7105
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:46 am

The 777s are taking over from the MD-11s come 1 January 2004. Pretty soon, Delta will only have 3 MD-11s left, all of which will be dedicated to the ATL-NRT flight. All transatlantic and South American flights will be operated with the 763 or 777 (save for some North South America 757 flights).

Jeff
 
strickerje
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:35 pm

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:09 am

Thomas - Thanks for your answer. I'd heard about some of the MD-11 upgrade programs, but I wasn't sure if they were successful or if they affected Delta's MD-11's. All of Delta's use the PW engines, and my understanding was that they were unsatisfied with their performance.

What I'm going by regarding range was that they were, among other routes, intended to operate ATL-NRT nonstop, which they sometimes cannot do (depending on wind).

-Jeffrey
 
modesto2
Posts: 2730
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: DL MD11 Disappearing... :(

Tue Jun 10, 2003 7:05 am

The MD11 may not have been the most efficient aircraft, but it was a beauty in Delta's old old colors. I will surely miss it. More importantly, it continues the retirement of trijets. I have nothing against twins and quads, but 3 engines makes spotting SO much more interesting. Long live Delta's MD11!

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