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clickhappy
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Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:46 pm

"It is more a PR threat," Leahy said of the 7E7. "It is more a marketing tool than an engineering reality."


Wonder if he is right?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/127110_leahy182.html
 
dvk
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:01 pm

Typical arrogance from John Leahy. He makes remarks like this against Boeing all the time.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
CX747
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:07 pm

As the earlier poster stated, this is typical Leahy. Basically he is an arogant New Yorker. The problem is, when the 7E7 is coming out, Airbus will be strapped out the wazzu with A380 costs and won't be able to match it.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
jaysit
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:13 pm

"The problem is, when the 7E7 is coming out, Airbus will be strapped out the wazzu with A380 costs and won't be able to match it."

Right, Madame ZaZa. What else does your magical crystal bowl tell you?

Last time I checked, Airbus' big bird was selling quite nicely.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
voodoo
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:17 pm

LOL. Actually Leahy has precedence on his side. With the Sonic Cruiser, which was touted with an even greater inevitability of success, Boeing clearly leads in the Dream Jet race.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:24 pm

John Leahy is just doing the same he did to the Sonic cruiser..... .

In today's market, when eighter of the 2 main manufacturers comes with anything innovating the other tries to:
1- finish is off by scaring off any possible future customers
2- scare the other manufacturer off by claiming there's only a small market for it anyhow
3- try to match it and outperform it

Boeing has used these 3 tricks all the time since Airbus started building planes, and since a few years Airbus has adopted this 3-step approach too....

With one small exception......
Boeing never ever was successful with eighter step 1 nor 2, and is too weak nowadays to go to step 3...

Airbus has so far never had to go further than step 1 to win.... but I am sure that if the day comes they fail to win on step 1, they won't waiste time and go straight to step 3.



[Edited 2003-06-18 15:38:35]
 
Qb001
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:35 pm

I agreed with Leahy when he said the Sonic Cruiser was more marketing than engineering. I'm not so sure I agree with him saying the same thing about the 7E7.

Leahy tends to forget Boeing is getting a lot of easy money from the US Armed Forces, and that will help them finance the 7E7 R&D effort.

Also, Boeing claims the 7E7 will make maximum use of new material (carbon fiber and other) for major parts of the plane. In its bid for the JSF (that it lost), Boeing was able to develop new technology in building wings with these new materials. If Boeing succeeds in porting that type of technology to the 7E7, Leahy might be in for a big surprise if he sticks to his line that the 7E7 will only be 1-2% more efficient. After all, the world of technology is not static, it's evolving and improving all the time and a plane designed in the years 2000 will for sure incorporate lots of these improvements and, at the end of the day, is very likely to be better.

Don't forget Leahy is also engaged in that marketing war. So it's fair for him to try to undermine Boeing's efforts.

I'm still optimistic about the 7E7.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:06 am

There is one thing that Leahy is forgetting about the 7E7--the plane could become the basis of a possible large-scale sale to the USAF as air-refuelling tankers, two to four US government VIP transports, the basis for a combined AWACS/JSTARS airborne command post and even replacements for the aging RC-135 series of electronic intelligence planes.

One of the major selling point of the 7E7--namely side-by-side LD3 cargo container carriage--could persuade quite a few airlines to buy the plane. One possibility: Lufthansa (LH). LH is desperately looking for an A300B4-600/A310 replacement, and the A330-200 is too big a plane for that purpose; Airbus is not forthcoming with anything resembling a true A300/A310 successor. Boeing could offer a stronger-structure medium-range (up to 4,000 nautical miles range) 7E7 that could meet LH's needs, and very likely it could interest BA, since BA is starting to phase out the 767 from their fleet.
 
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STT757
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:32 am

"There is one thing that Leahy is forgetting about the 7E7--the plane could become the basis of a possible large-scale sale to the USAF as air-refuelling tankers, two to four US government VIP transports, the basis for a combined AWACS/JSTARS airborne command post and even replacements for the aging RC-135 series of electronic intelligence planes."

It would not be ready in time, the USAF already has awarded Boeing the first contract for 100 767-200s to replace the oldest KC-135s. They will eventually replace the whole KC-135 fleet (all 550 of them) with 767-200s, the AWACS, Joint Stars, Rivet Joint and TACAMO fleet is going to be replaced with the 767-400.

The 7E7 is a possible canidate to replace the KC-10 fleet, but the KC-10 fleet is still relatively new (early 1980s). So don't look for their replacement anytime soon.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
na
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:52 am

What do you expect from a big-mouthed salesman? Praises for the competitor? Just ignore him if you don´t like what he says.



The USAF´s choice for the aging 767 is a typical political decision. Straight thinking brains not required. When these tankers will start flying in numbers, they´ll already be old and soon obsolete airframes. They should better wait for the 7E7 and give that program a boost instead of polishing old brass! Imagine how much fuel that would save! But military and saving fuel? Especially US military and saving whatever - are completely opposite sides of the world.

 
sllevin
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:59 am

When these tankers will start flying in numbers, they´ll already be old and soon obsolete airframes.

It's not absolute efficiency the USAF is working at right now. They are trying to replace the oldest of their KC-135 fleet, which has been flying for six decades. Specific airframe details aren't that important -- reliable and robust lift is what matters. And having a mixed fleet of tankers has some specific advantages (such as not having the entire fleet grounded due to an AD)

The truth is that this replacement should have started back in the late 80s and has been pushed off by budgetary concerns for far too long -- and even now, to get it through the budgetary process, they are having to go through this whole "lease" process.

Steve
 
Navion
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:59 am

I think Boeing will do fine with the 7E7. Everyone should notice that Boeing has met or exceeded all of it's performance expectations on it's aircraft in the past 20 years including the 717, 777, and 737NG's. Each model actually bettered it's fuel consumption and performance estimates so it is natural to expect Boeing to do the same on the 7E7. The 7E7 is a much more likely product than the Sonic Cruiser because A) the times simply weren't right for the Sonic Crusier for a host of reasons and B) the 7E7 fit's a much more lucrative niche for future aircraft sales. I think this one will fly (no pun intended).
 
KROC
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:59 am

The KC-135's are not all going to replaced anytime soon. There are plans that have them in the USAF fleet still for quite some time. That leaves plenty of time for the USAF to start buying 7E7 tankers as well as using them as new AWACS and such.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:09 am

May we in that case also start the discussion on whether these possibly huge US military orders will not substitute a kind of unauthorized government backing and doubtful funding of the so-called fully private Boeing 7E7 program?

In relation to the continuous stream of reports form the other side of the Atlantic on how 'scandalous' it is Airbus gets below-market-rate loans from European states for developing the A380, this would not be a discussion which is off topic.



 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:15 am

Na:

You are assessing the airframe's modern-ness from an airline's perspective. Military usage is very different from commercial usage. Military tankers have always used airframes that are typically older than those contemporary aircraft used by commercial airlines. For example, the KC-135 extended the 707 production line way beyond Boeing ceased the 727 production. If efficiency is the sole criterion for operating tankers, then the KC-135 should have long been gone by now. Also, you implied the 330 would save much fuel than the 767, but this is simply not the case. FWIW, the fuel capacity of the 332 is 36,750 USGal., and the fuel capacity of the 764ER is 23,980 USGal. You can do the math. I would also like to remind you, the proposed tanker is based on the 762ER frame, so the 332 would be too big. The 332 would be closer to the size of a KC-10. The USAF isn't replacing the KC-10 at this point.
 
CX747
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:22 am

Sabenapilot, put down the pipe and listen to yourself. The 767 tanker deal has NOTHING to do with the 7E7. The 767 order was placed by the U.S.A.F. to replace their older KC-135E tanker/transport airframes. Now, building 100 KC-767s for the Air Force will take a few years. By the time the first 100 KC-767 tankers have been rolled out, the 7E7 will also be rolling down the Everett or wherever production line. At that point in time, the U.S.A.F. may ask Boeing to make them a KC-7E7 tanker. Personally I highly doubt this but I'm not going to say that it isn't a possibility. In fact, I like the idea of buying KC-7E7 tankers better than KC-767 tankers. With the 7E7, you have a new and robust platform that is at the begining of its life, the airlines will be operating them in massive numbers and therefore plenty of pilots will be flying them. This would give the U.S.A.F. a vast resource of people to fly aircraft in the Guard and Reserve.

I am looking forward to the design and development of the 7E7 and how LH, BA etc react to it. I also hope that I can pilot it someday! Doing the math, it would only have been in service 5 years at the point when my Air Force commitment is up.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Qb001
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:27 am

Sabenapilot,

I wrote Boeing gets a lot of easy money from the US Armed Forces; this is exactly what I referred to.

But please, let's not start another A vs B war.

I've always felt that when accused of receiving subsidies, a manufacturer's (whether Airbus or Boeing) reaction is always to say: "Not true, false, I'll die if I lie". And then they go on to say: "My competitor gets the same kind of privileges anyway".

All major aircraft manufacturers (Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, Embraer) receive direct or indirect financial support from their respective governments. So at this point, this is pretty much a non-issue AFAIC.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:29 am

But military and saving fuel? Especially US military and saving whatever - are completely opposite sides of the world.

Your hatred for all things American has been well noted in previous posts; why don't you give it a rest for a bit?

I don't see your air force operating any "fuel-sipping" A330's... Big grin
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
N79969
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:30 am

Our tankers need replacement but I think the lease financing of this tanker deal is a subsidy and a ripoff of the taxpayer. The 767 tankers should be purchased outright to save the taxpayers money. Sen. Patty Murray is unbashedly pushing this grotesque form of corporate welfare.

Replacing 50-year old tankers with 767s is far from scandalous. It would be like if the RAF or Luftwaffe acquired A300 or 310s as tankers.

Leahy comes off as a weasel. Big deal. Let him keep talking.

[Edited 2003-06-18 18:44:28]
 
L1011Fan
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:36 am

Sabenapilot,

If the US Government decides to buy 7E7 tankers it would hardly be scandalous.

What if the US Government put out a requirement for a new tanker and Lockheed decided to creat a plane similar to the 7E7 (in terms of size) in order to bid for that order? Would that be scandalous? Of course the US Government will buy aircraft from Boeing and Lockheed. It's fair to say that the European governments would buy Airbus. My point is that governments all over the world support their own industries. It would be "scandalous" for the US not buy from Boeing or Lockheed because that would be interpreted by the masses as our own government not supporting our economy.

When was the last time you saw a Saab police car in the US? Chances are pretty good the answer is never. That's because state/city/local governments buy American cars. I won't even go into how GM owns Saab either. I saw only Volvo police cars in Sweden. Is that scandalous? The Swedish government was clearly supporting a Swedish company.

[Edited 2003-06-18 18:47:39]

[Edited 2003-06-18 18:50:59]
 
AFa340-300E
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:46 am

Hello L1011Fan,


It is fair when both parties support their respective industries within the rules established by the WTO. It is less fair when one side says only the other side does it and doesn't want to recognize it does it too...

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
ATB - Paris Air Show 2003
 
mt99
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:54 am

"Saab police car "

-- i believe i might have seen some in Aspen ,CO.. Anyone?
Step into my office, baby
 
mt99
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:56 am

Step into my office, baby
 
na
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:06 am

JBirdAV8r,
attacking me with "Your hatred for all things American has been well noted in previous posts" is an insult. Stop such crap.

You´re completely wrong, because thats not the case at all. How do you proof this your accusations? That I critisize Bush doesn´t mean I critisize America. And that he, a notorious oil-guzzler and his government is not interested in doing anything to save energy and these planets resources is a wellknown truth (remember Kyoto?).
Don´t generalize. I like America a lot, I´ve friends and family there. That doesn´t mean that I have to support its (goverments) mistakes like many one-eyed so called patriots do!
If you like your country, you should think and be able to critisize its bad sides to make it better and not stupidly insult others!

Some decisions of our European governments for the Airbus military transport for example are questionable as well. If you read my post again you´ll see that I critisize Political decisions as a whole here.



An answer to my post like the one of Dynkrisiolo is something that makes sense.
I was just critisizing that masses of a dying airliner-type are being ordered by the AF when a newer and far more economical type is about to be lauched!
That its a US decision is just coincidental but fits to the notorious desinterest of the current administration in environmental issues. If it would be here in my country I would critisize it as well.
 
AFa340-300E
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:07 am

Hello,

The French administration awarded a major contract to Ford one or two years ago... But let's stcik to aviation.


Best regards,
Alain Mengus
ATB - Paris Air Show 2003
 
L1011Fan
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:10 am

MT99,

I stand corrected. I now challenge you to find a Yugo Police car in the US...LOL
 
Alessandro
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:13 am

Lot of VW buses in the Swedish police (even the US made Valiant, Porsche and the Beetle has been part of the Swedish police). But sure Volvo (Ford own) is common, same as SAAB.
Personally I never take anything for granted until I hear that it got a price tag
(comes to new cars, motorbikes, helicopters and airplanes and so on)....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Qb001
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:13 am

Saab is owned by GM; so it's sort of an American car now. But let's stick to aviation.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:16 am

Folks,

The USAF really does need new air-refuelling tankers because even with the re-engined KC-135R with its F108 (neé CFM56) engines, the airframe itself is getting very old and the USAF is going to pretty soon start running out of salvagable commercial 707's to keep the KC-135 fleet in the air. They'd rather have the salvagable parts go to keep the E-3 Sentry and E-6 TACAMO planes operational.

This why the USAF will get 100 tankers based on the 767-200(ER) airframe, but that is still only a stop-gape measure. With the likely possibility that the USAF will substantially cull the KC-135 fleet for airframe life reasons, I think it would be very smart for Boeing to offer military variants of the 7E7 for deliveries from after 2008 as tankers, combined AWACS/JSTARS airborne command posts, and replacements for the aging RC-135 electronic intelligence platforms. We're talking about the possibility of selling as many as 400 7E7 variants to the USAF after 2008, not to mention the lucrative market for replacing 767's and A300B/A310 airplanes!
 
transswede
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:40 am

Saab is owned by GM; so it's sort of an American car now.

And Volvo is owned by Ford!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy (Only the car-part, not Volovo trucks)
 
JAT
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:57 am

Do you think the 7E7 would be a good choice/replacement for airlines that need an intercontinetal plane the size of a 767-200. It could replace current 762s and A310/300s. Although the A330-200 is sort of filling that requirement right now, isn't it a bit too big to be a true 762 replacement? Personally, I see some great candiadates for the 7E7 among "smaller" airlines. For instance: CSA, LOT, TAROM, JAT, Aeroflot, MALEV etc... Also, a lot of 762s will have to be replaced by bigger carriers that use them now. This plane could be quite succesful, certainly more than the sonic cruiser.

Oh, and to all those people who seem to think that the A380 will be succesful just because of the many (ridicilously many, in my opinion) orders that Airbus got for it, remember the Concorde? There were many many orders for it, even Air Canada ordered some, but in the end only BA and AF ended up using them. I very much doubt the same thing will happen to the A380, but some of those orders may never happen. That EK order for instance, isn't that a bit much?
 
mt99
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:21 am

"Yugo Police car in the US" -
Ever seen the movie "drowning mona"?

http://us.imdb.com/EGallery?source=ss&group=0186045&photo=Ss/0186045/7&path=gallery&path_key=0186045
Step into my office, baby
 
konrad
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:49 am

Did the 7E7 become an official program or is it sort of a feasibility study? When does Boeing expect to be ready to start taking orders? I imagine that this will require rather precise performance data.
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:55 am

Some tend to always lump the A300 with the 310 and 767-200 not the case. The A300 is simply a larger plane without the range of the 310 or 762ER but it sure can haul alot of people and cargo on more regional rte's, compare the 762 with the 310 and the 767-400 is the closest thing in capacity and range of the A300-600R. The A330-200 could be a great replacement for the A300-600r its only slighly larger, albeit the wingspan is too great fro some of the 300 gates. Also if they could shave a few pounds from it it would be great to replace the 300-600r, rememeber alot of heavy DC-10's use to fulfill that role in some cases.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
tekelberry
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:17 am

And that he, a notorious oil-guzzler and his government is not interested in doing anything to save energy and these planets resources is a wellknown truth (remember Kyoto?).

I guess no one in other countries gives a crap about our economy and American workers, which Kyoto would have gravely hurt. Would your country have accepted the deal if your economy was going to h***? Even the Democrats in the Senate opposed the plan due to the economy issue. Bush openly said that he would work with other countries to fight the greenhouse problem.

Do you have any sense in how our government even works? Are you aware that there are more branches than the executive branch? I guess you just overlook Congress (legislative) and the Supreme Court (judicial). They're worthless, right? Bush doesn't represent this whole country's government. You could argue that the Republican party does, but not Bush.
 
tekelberry
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:29 am

Also, this shows a little something about Airbus management. They are a bit immature, wouldn't you say? When has Boeing management ever openly bashed Airbus?
 
skymileman
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:31 am

My point exactly. Boeing is a 5-star company.  Smile
 
gigneil
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:34 am

Boeing management openly bashed Airbus AND Iberia in a public statement following Airbus' win of additional 346 orders.

Let's not even get started on the Kyoto accord.

N
 
skymileman
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:35 am

All right, you are right there. I guess I should have worded it as "Boeing management doesn't openly bash airbus without good reason.
 
N79969
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:41 am

I read the WSJ(?) account about the Iberia deal and what occured. Perhaps it was poor form on Boeing's part but I think they were justified in their aggravation and exasperation. Iberia simply played Boeing and wasted Boeing's time because it seems they never (very) seriously considered the B777. They just wanted the better price out of Airbus.

Unlike Cathay and United who genuinely use two suppliers to keep each supplier honest, I think Iberia went too far in its scheme to tease Boeing.
 
tekelberry
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:43 am

All right, you are right there. I guess I should have worded it as "Boeing management doesn't openly bash airbus without good reason.

First of all, I'm the one who said that, not you.

Boeing management openly bashed Airbus AND Iberia in a public statement following Airbus' win of additional 346 orders.

Boeing didn't have an article written up about it. Leahy went as far as to have it published as an article.

I'm not familiar with what happened with the public statement. Could I have a little more details, please?
 
gigneil
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:49 am

Tekelberry- It was actually a press release.

http://www.boeing.com/news/breakingnews/2003/030130g.html

Whether it was for good reason or not, its still pretty unprofessional... but both sides are pretty guilty of mudslinging.

Skymileman - you're an idiot.


N
 
Scorpio
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:49 am

Tekelberry,

Boeing didn't have an article written up about it.

Yes it did.

Statement's discussed in detail right here:

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1015567/

Skymileman,

Still waiting for you to back up those claims...
 
tekelberry
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:53 am

That's a press release BY Boeing. Where do you see it written up in an actual newspaper, like what Leahy had done with his bashing?
 
gigneil
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:56 am

The point of making a press release is for it to be picked up by media, like a newspaper. It can be construed as the same intent, if not even intended to reach a WIDER audience, than a comment to a single newspaper.

N
 
emiratesa345
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RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:00 am

"Boeing management doesn't openly bash airbus without good reason"

Who cares?

He is entitled to his opinion, and has the right to voice it. It's what democracy is all about!  Laugh out loud

EmiratesA345  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5045
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:01 am

Skymileman,

Airbus makes careless mistakes in building their planes. Boeing tells the truth.

*sigh* Go on... Which mistakes, and where's the proof?
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:04 am

Scorpio,

asking for proven statements in an A vs B war? Where's the point?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:32 am

RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:06 am

Examples:

1. The A320 demonstrator aircraft that crashed at the paris airshow on demonstration flight.

2. The American Airlines A300 that went down in Queens on November 12, 2001 due to structural failure including the separation of one engine as well as structural damage done to the tail.

There are many more. Enough for you to see the light of day yet?
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5045
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Airbus Sales Chief Scoffs At Rival's 7E7

Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:07 am

Aloges,

asking for proven statements in an A vs B war? Where's the point?

I know, but it's fun sometimes to back these little know-it-alls into a corner, and watch them desperately try to back their asses out of the situation  Big grin

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