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elal106
Topic Author
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2000 1:50 pm

Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:01 am

Hey guys,

I forgot to mention a few days ago, Swiss is finally going to be joining an Alliance by the end of the month. Thanks to strong influence by American Airlines, British Airways has invited Swiss to join their oneworld alliance. This is a step in the right direction for swiss but still short of enough. I wish them all the best.

Another note, Lufthansa is not that interested in Swiss anymore. It is British Airways who mainly is right now!

My sources: very high management at swiss

You guys will hear about it soon if not already!!
regards,
elal106
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5148
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:10 am

I never believed that Swiss will do anything with LH except as really last chance to survive.

I already said 2 years ago that oneworld is the only chance for Swiss and one must be blind that Swiss shares it mileage program with nearly all Oneworld "partners" and if not mistaken, they codeshare on all Oneworld airlines as well, except LA.

But I wonder Yoni, where do you have this source from? In the Swiss radio they said, that Swiss will negotiate with BA again.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
behramjee
Posts: 5043
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:13 am

Very wise decision! Star Alliance is getting a bit too crowded and One World is more suited to LX due to their many AA codeshare flights even on trans-atlantic routes and BAs vast intl and regional network whilst SKY TEAM has already got a few big Euro guys like AF, AZ, KLM and Czech which is sufficient.

 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:59 am

I do very hope so. Oneworld would be the best solution by fare. I think LH and Star would not be very good. Munich is too close to Zurich and Star would become too strong within Middle Europe (a monopoly in the german speaking part of Europe).
And (this is only a very personal opinion) I don't like LH and the Germans very much.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:16 am

If Swiss goes w/ Oneworld, it makes it almost certain that KL w/ go w/ Skyteam.

BA will still have to address access to LHR in order to have a majority ownership position in LX but, I'm guessing it could take a different flavor since Switzerland is not a part of the EU.

thoughts on that part of a BA/LX deal?
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:27 am

WorldTraveler: There is no BA/LX deal. BA would not want to buy shares of Swiss. LX only would join Oneworld.
 
dispatch
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:14 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:42 am

Behramjee,
please do not jump to conclusions.
KLM is NOT, I repeat NOT in the SKYTEAM alliance!!

Please read this thread: https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1156849/

Peter
 
IwantaBBJ
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:14 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:54 am

I too would prefer LX to join OW over anything with LH, not at last due to the proximity of both VIE and MUC.... But, we just have to wait and see until the deal is secure... So much has been speculated about LX lately, it's hard to know what to believe....

Michael

@elal106: Hope you had a good trip back... BTW, what happened to the pics of your georgous girlfriend in your profile?
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:27 am

Well, all the best to LX, and let's hope OW doesn't suffer another "Canadian"!!
 
JAL
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:18 am

Wonderful to see Swiss finally joining OneWorld!!!!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
gkirk
Posts: 23404
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:03 am

Joining oneWorld to feed the LHR hub??? Or will ZRH and GVA still have long haul flights?
As Elal106 said: Another note, Lufthansa is not that interested in Swiss anymore. It is British Airways who mainly is right now!

I suppose someone could interpret this as British Airways Switzerland...

When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:31 am

BTW, why is BA "in charge" of deciding who joins OW - shouldn't it be a decision that all member airlines have to agree with?
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:41 am

DoorsToManual; two reasons. BA first is the European "leader". Second, BA was the ONE member which was blocking.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:01 pm

as highly anticipated this move seems, as much LX needs an investor. and to be honest, i highly doubt LX could make it around without a financial partner. and so far, there´s been no word on oneworld partners granting financial assistance.

it is true that Star seems overcrowded, especially in middle europe, however, if LX joins oneworld, consolidation in europe is making a step backward.
you might disagree, but i strongly believe that consolidation in europe will mainly cluster around regions and companies with similar cultures/corporate cultures. we all know what happened with KLM and AZ. and from that point of view, IB would better fit to skyteam. in this regard, i feel that Star is positioned best with it firm focus on middle europe and "german" countries/companies (LH, OS, SK). thus, and this is just a personal opinion, the swiss aviation sector would stand to benefit more if LX aligned with Star.

anyway... hopefully, LX finds the best suitable partners for its plans and to make an end to its financial difficulties. it´s certainly not comforting times that LX employees are currently going through.

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:15 pm

BTW, why is BA "in charge" of deciding who joins OW - shouldn't it be a decision that all member airlines have to agree with?

Yes, that's technically true. But if you don't agree with AA or BA, you will probably be bullied upon from members within your own alliance. A unanimous vote might also not be required depending on the alliance.
 
Amir
Posts: 1224
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 8:56 pm

Attn. Elal106

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:20 pm

So, OW will get the ailing company.

Attn. elal106: since you seem to have such great conections (also reading through your profile) please get us the next balance sheet of Swiss before it get's official.......
Some people around need to grow up.

Bergds
amir
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:27 pm

Well, if the worst comes to the worst, with LX in OW, would that make it easier for BA to pick up the assets?

(I by no means wish to irritate anyone working for LX here, or Swiss aviation fans, but would just like an honest discussion on what BA stands to gain now, and if/when LX might run into trouble).

Is BA just a circling vulture that knows its prey is in trouble?
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:40 pm

As already pointed out: it all is only about LX probably joining Oneworld. This has absolutely nothing to do with a financial investment of any oneworld carrier into SWISS.

The rumours around LH were indeed, that LH would have taken over a part of SWISS. But this - as the now discussed rumour about oneworld - was also only a rumour.

I believe it, when I see it.

Cheers
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
speedbirdyvr
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:44 pm

"Yes, that's technically true. But if you don't agree with AA or BA, you will probably be bullied upon from members within your own alliance"

Sounds like the U.N. if you ask me! Thank God Air France already found an alliance!
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:47 pm

Sounds like the U.N. if you ask me! Thank God Air France already found an alliance!

Let's not turn this into a political argument, eh?
 
Businessflyer
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 4:23 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:56 pm

Completely different story being reported in the FT on the 8th Aug. Basically the story was that Lufthansa is maintaining very close relationships with Swiss in order to prevent Air France from getting too involved in the Swiss market and directing traffic to CDG and SkyTeam. The story concludes by saying that is believed by some analysts that Lufthansa is waiting for Swiss to file for Nachlassstundung (Swiss Chp 11 equivalent) before taking it over.

Very different take than the story here...! I wonder which is right...
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:02 pm

Would that be the story that begins,

"Lufthansa has been warned by analysts to steer clear of taking an equity stake in Swiss, the loss-making flag carrier,..."
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:06 pm

to be honest, i think all of the stories are right.

Swiss management must explore all possibilities and is probably in talks not only with LH and British Airways, but also with AF.

and it´s in the interest of LH to keep LX away from BA and AF, as BA wants to keep LX away from LH, and so on...

and what is true when an airline wants to order Airbus, requesting a proposal from Boeing in order to put pressure on Airbus, applies here as well.

LX wants the matter resolved as quickly as possible, and they certainly don´t want to file for the Swiss equivalent of Chapter 11 as that would give a new financial investor more power over its future size and shape, and negotiating with BA puts pressure on LH, and vice versa.

edit: wasn´t there supposed to be a LX board meeting last week to decide upon the airline´s future? giving answers and ideas to what airline LX might team up with?

cheers
daniel

[Edited 2003-08-11 12:11:44]
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Businessflyer
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 4:23 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:07 pm

Doors...

Yep... that's the story. But the headline does not reflect that fact that the story itself is about how Lufthansa is still very interested in Swiss. Or at least that is the way I read it...

What about yourself?
 
richardw
Posts: 3168
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:17 pm

If they did join one world would a big codesharing situation occur between the UK and central europe on BA and LX flights?
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:26 pm

Businessflyer...I don't subscribe to the FT.com and only buy the print version occasionally, so I trust your interpretation is correct.

Rumours flying everywhere....soon they'll be predicting an "A380 order for LX" rumour...
 
Businessflyer
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 4:23 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:35 pm

Johnny...

Apparently the Board meeting is today, i.e. Monday.

Doors...

Everybody seems to have a different interpretation! But you are right, so many pieces of news/rumours flying about that it is impossible to actually know which one to give any credence to. But I tend to trust the FT since it has been right in this area before... ah well... wait and see what happens... all very interesting!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:24 pm

ZRH,
There is nothing that says that BA has to invest in LX in order to develop a marketing relationship. However, LX needs cash; if they can convince banks to give it to them money based on a strong business plan that includes a marketing alliance w/ someone, all the better. either way, LX needs money and they won't sign onto anything that doesn't include a plan for putting some money in the bank.
 
gibberish
Posts: 411
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2000 5:35 pm

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:25 pm

WorldTraveler:

Barclay's Bank would be exactly what they are looking for. It's been rumored that they were willing to grant Swiss Int'l a credit of CHF 500 Million - the amount they need to survive. A strange coincidence that the Bank is British? We'll find out soon enough.

gibberish
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:58 am

Apparently there are currently 4 options for swiss:

a) "Project Blue", a model developed by the Roland Berger consulting group. LH buys a minority stake in Swiss and down-sizes them a bit, but they remain independent. Swiss gets a 300M € credit from the Deutsche Bank.

b) Swiss joins Oneworld. This model was developed by Bain & Company, another consulting group. They downsize on their own and want to survive without another airline buying a stake in them. A 500M CHF credit would be granted by the Barclay's Bank. (As reported by Gibberish)

c) Swiss remains independent. Unlikely, but not impossible. They would still need a 500M CHF credit. Dosé is against it and will resign if their board goes this way.

d) Nachlassstundung (CH11). The worst case. If none of the 3 options above go ahead, the Swiss flag carrier will fail for the second time within 2 years. It could mean the final end of Swiss.

The meeting was scheduled for today, so maybe we'll know tonight in which direction Swiss is heading.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Swiss To Soon Join OneWorld Alliance

Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:33 am

Hello

Swiss just confirmed that Nachlassstundung (ch11) is not an option!

RJ100
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