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AA777
Topic Author
Posts: 2361
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:05 am

I was plane spotting at DCA a couple of days ago, and listening to my Scanner which was tuned to the DCA tower.... There was a USAirways 737 that had been told to sit on the runway and wait for clearance to take off... meanwhile, another USAirways 737 was cleared to land-- instead of doing a go-around, the 737 that was on the ground was told to get off the runway, and the USAirways that was landing kept on course.... the 737 quickly turned off the runway, as fast as possible, but just as the second plane was crossing the threshold, I think they realized they were coming in too low b/c the other plane hadn't fully gotten off the runway--- they kept level, and then landed the plane at what seemed like dangerously far at the other end of the runway... from my point of view, it looked like the right wing of the landing plane was just several feet from the top of the rudder of the 737 that was already on the ground!..... Maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought, but it was definitely the closest call I have ever seen at DCA.
 
US A333 PIT
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2001 8:36 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:30 am

That airport is very dangerous, especially when they're landing and taking off on multiple runways which is just about always.
 
zrb2
Posts: 862
Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 10:07 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:10 am

I'm always amazed how the controllers at DCA manage to clear departures and arrivals so close together. What you described doesn't surprise me.
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:18 am

i'm not so sure what makes DCA any more dangerous than other busy airports with intersecting runways - ORD, LGA, BOS, STL to name a few. runway incursions data shows things can get a lot messier elsewhere.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:05 am

They don't too often land jets on both runways... although I guess I have seen it happen before.

N
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:12 am

yeah, most of the time jets exclusively use 1-19 and other aircraft 15-33 or 4-22. weight permitting, you will sometimes see a jet land on 33 to allow a departure to be ready to go on 1.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:32 am

Can anybody say ATL... They have the smartest Runway plan that I have ever seen. Absolutely Incursion resistant (If not incursion proof)
Puhdiddle
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:06 am

WHOA! WHOA! WHOA! WHOA! WHOA!.......ATL???????????

Dude, several times I was there, my heart was pounding! They'd have a Brasilia or ATR landing and they'd have big commericial jet right on his ass. If the commuter missed the taxiway and had to roll to the next one........jeeez! I'm not talkin' once,..... I mean several different times. Oh and if someone who's just landed misunderstands the controller, and interesects the departure runway.....BOOM!!! Not incursion proof.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3015
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:33 am

Guys...

The question is not wheter the airports are incursion proof or not!

The question that you guys should ask yourselves is if the Tower controller working that day in DCA did the right thing or not!....If I was the controller, i would have sent the 737 on final on an overshoot ASAP, and not tell the guy on the ground to get off the rwy! That makes more sence. Fact of the matter is, the pilot was only doing what it was told (to land), and the other guy on the ground also..So it ultimately lies on the controllers hands wheter an airport is incursion proof or not!
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
goboeing
Posts: 2572
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:31 am

ATL is in no way "incursion-proof." Every time you land there, you must cross an active runway in order to get to the gate. A runway incursion cannot happen without someone going across an active runway.

DEN is the closest thing to incursion proof.

Nick
 
redngold
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:45 am

I saw a close one at CLE last year -- a private Learjet coming in, the pilot was an a** who was ignoring all requests and queries by ATC as to his speed, where he was going, would he please use final approach speed, off the runway as quickly as possible, etc. He just kept calling in as if he was landing at an uncontrolled airport, stating how far out he was and at what altitude. There was a 737 coming in behind him and not only did he take his sweet time landing, but then he just sat on the runway after landing. That 737 pilot must have sh*t his pants because there were less than 50 feet separating his gear from the top of the Lear's tail before the 737 pitched up into go-around.
Up, up and away!
 
Guest

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:59 am

It's amazing what they can land at that airport. A couple of years ago, I remember a short-of-fuel UA DC-10, which was scheduled to land at BWI 33 miles to the north, made an emergency landing at DCA during a thunderstorm. And with all passengers and luggage removed, the plane took off the next day. DC's channel 9 had news-cameras there and has film clips of the actual takeoff. I'm sure a few Potomac River pleasure boaters had their hats knocked off by the take-off.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
zobatc
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 2:48 pm

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:23 am

In the event of a tie, duplicate prizes will be awarded.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7105
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:51 am

Last time I was at DCA, we landed on 33 (a US 734 from MSY). Had a departure right behind us too (a Dash 8) on Runway 1, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I've had closer encounters at several other airports, including CVG (departure on 27, landing on 18) and BOS.

Jeff
 
PizzaPolli
Posts: 234
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:45 pm

Does anyone know where I could see video of that DC-10 takeoff. I know I have heard about that happening for years so I would sure love to see it.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4424
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:59 pm

Whats really scary is...

When as soon as you turn to take off a plane is coming in straight from behind. That happened to my grandma. in FLL she was flying TWA MD-83 back to STL. They sat on the taxiway for a long time, and the planes just kept landing and landing. then my grandma saw a plane coming in low and said well we gotta wait for that to land. But what does the pilot do? HE TURNS IN FRONT OF THE PLANE. she swears HE BOOKED FULL SPEED AHEAD. She said EVERY HEAD was turned to a window to see if the plane was right behind them, finally she took off and then when they turned they saw the plane was already taxing off the runway. THATS HOW CLOSE THEY CAME TO HITTING THE PLANE!!!

Another is while a plane is landing, the other plane comes in after the landed plne and takes off while it still on!!! I did that in STL with WN.

WE were sitting waiting for a company 733 to land, as soon as it touched down, we turned and booked full speed ahead!!! I thought we were gonna crash into it because we were going faster and the 733 was going slower!!! as soon as we took off, I saw him JUST clearing the runway, so I knew we took off while he was still on the runway!!! Thats INSANE!!!

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Guest

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:29 pm

Zobatc writes: "In the event of a tie, duplicate prizes will be awarded."

Okay, you've completely lost me. What are you talking about?
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:39 pm

i remember hearing about that DC10...though if you want to see something exciting on a regular basis, watch a dc-9 take off from DCA's runway 1. those things have a very shallow climb, and always seem to lift off in the last 500 feet of runway.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:02 pm

I agree, all the airports with ATL's runway system such as DTW, LAX, DFW and soon to be MCO are not incursion free.
Now at DTW where they have the 4 parallel runways- two on either side of terminals like ATL, but then two cross wind runways also. Although the two crosswind runways are extremely rare to being used, only in cases of strong winds from the west. At DTW though I often see aircraft after they land taxi way around to the south end of the airport when landing to the south.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:10 pm

TheNoFlyZone,
not quite - it's always up to the PIC on the aircraft to determine whether it is safe or not to land, no matter what the tower has said. You can bet that if an accident had happened in the scenario mentioned, then the blame would also have hit the captain.
 
zrb2
Posts: 862
Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 10:07 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:38 pm

i remember hearing about that DC10...though if you want to see something exciting on a regular basis, watch a dc-9 take off from DCA's runway 1. those things have a very shallow climb, and always seem to lift off in the last 500 feet of runway.

I agree. Especially the Midwest Express Dc-9/MD-80's. Whenever I watch...Those planes always take up the most runway before rotating.
 
bahadir
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:44 pm

AA777,
DCA is an interesting airport. It has limited amount of runway length and it can get pretty busy in peak business hours. Now that it doesn't have the bizjet traffic, it should be better, but incidences like an airplane that is in the "taxi and position hold" getting off the taxiway for the plane that is landing makes a perfect sense. It creates a major problem to send the landing plane back to the departure and try to handle it. It is much easy task to handle an airplane that is on the ground.

In 7 years I visited and lived around DCA, I have seen so many cases like this..

Take care..
Earthbound misfit I
 
transglobal2
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:30 am

RE: Close One At DCA

Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:54 pm

In the UA DC-10 vein, I once heard a story from an old AA employee at DCA who told the tale of an Aer Lingus 720 that in effect did the same thing. This was around 1961 or '62 (before IAD opened), and they'd been holding well south of IDL due to weather. Finally, they declared an emergency and into DCA they went. A couple of other people say they've heard this, too, and I consider the original source pretty reliable.

Still, it does beg a few questions, despite being an interesting story. Anyone else have anything on this?

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