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favre
Topic Author
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 1:34 am

NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:16 am

A330 ETOPS certified..We've been given our final ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operation) authority by the FAA to operate the A330-300. And aircraft 3302 has officially been placed on the ops spec of the airline and it is operating in cargo service across the Atlantic getting operating experience for our flight crews...
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US A333 PIT
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2001 8:36 am

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:19 am

I'm assuming it's 180 minute ETOPS. Tell me if I'm wrong.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:39 am

Favre- any word on how your flight crews are liking it so far?

...and what fleet did most of them transition from? The DC-10? Or up from the A320?

N
 
BAGSMASHER
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:18 am

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:02 am

Anyone know when 3301 is being delivered? The Sceptre system indicates a July delivery date but so far nothing. Also Sept 2 sked indicates 2 daily flts DTW-AMS, so it would have to be before then. Just wondering.
 
e7plnr
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:17 am

3301 is due into MSP Aug 29 for Commissioning.
Skd Sep 2 DTW-AMS-DTW
 
BAGSMASHER
Posts: 164
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:19 am

E7 plnr , Thanks for the info. I'll keep my eyes open.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:01 am

I'm assuming it's 180 minute ETOPS. Tell me if I'm wrong

IINM, USA carriers may only operate ETOPS180/207 over the Pacific.

Atlantic operations must stick to ETOPS138
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Guest

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:18 am

ConcordeBoy -- NW intends to fly the A332 across the Pacific... not sure if the A332 and A333 need different ratings... there's also a good possibility the A333 will fly to Hawaii one day…

Also worth noting that NW expedited delivery of the A330 to mid-2005 earlier this year (from sometime in 2006) ... but now deliveries are shown via late 2008.

 
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yyz717
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:22 am

Has the NW 333 been used on any revenue flights in the domestic US market yet? Are any intended?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
gigneil
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:25 am

They'll get the same rating for both the 333 and the 332.

What mode they operate a certain route in is independent of their rating.

My guess is they'll be allowed to operate over the Pacific as ETOPS 180, and, quite possibly, ETOPS 207.

N
 
US A333 PIT
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:26 am

"IINM, USA carriers may only operate ETOPS180/207 over the Pacific.

Atlantic operations must stick to ETOPS138"

Concordeboy: Either I'm missing something, or that doesn't answer my question. For example: CO 764s are 180 min ETOPS rated, because, although they're used primarily for transatlantic ops, they still fly half a dozen or so routes to Hawaii over the pacific. So can somebody please tell what NWA's 333s are rated at as of right now. If they are 138 minutes, are there plans to upgrade to 180 minutes?
 
Guest

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:31 am

Has the NW 333 been used on any revenue flights in the domestic US market yet? Are any intended?

No. They were scheduled for DTW-SEA in July & August, but NW opted against it and decided to fly it across the Atlantic with employees & cargo instead... guess it was cheaper that way.
 
Guest

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:41 am

So can somebody please tell what NWA's 333s are rated at as of right now.

NW has received 180 minute ETOPS for both the A333 and A332.
 
calpilot
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:10 am

Concordeboy,,,

Many airlines operate across the Atlantic using 180mins.
 
dutchjet
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:42 am

I admit that I am not an expert on this subject, but didn't NW achieve ETOPS approval for A330 operations in record time? Has NW used the A330 for any domestic passenger services? I thought (and obviously was wrong) that an airline needed to use a type in regular passenger service for a period of time before it was granted ETOPS approval.
 
timz
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 138 Minute On The Atlantic

Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:58 am

Maybe ConcordeBoy meant that US carriers never need more than 138 minutes on the Atlantic?
 
N670UW
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Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:17 am

Maybe ConcordeBoy meant that US carriers never need more than 138 minutes on the Atlantic?

Yes, I believe I read that 138min ETOPS (15% more than 120min) was created due to the small area west of the Azores that couldn't reach land within 2 hours.
 
Rick767
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:32 am

Our 767-300 aircraft are 180 minutes ETOPS, and we use 180 minutes over the Atlantic. Means we only need 2 alternates on any track, which simplifies matters and also works for us if BIKF is marginal wxr.

British Airways and Air 2000 do the same with their longhaul twins.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
favre
Topic Author
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 1:34 am

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:15 am

They received fast approval due to simulated ETOPS flights operated by DC-10's under FAA guidelines.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:07 am

Many airlines operate across the Atlantic using 180mins.

I'm well aware of that, but notice I also said "USA carriers"

Take the 767s in your airline for example, they're certified to operate ETOPS180, but have never applied more than -138 over the Atlantic
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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Crosswind
Posts: 2596
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RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:41 am

ETOPS 180min is operator/aircraft specific, not route specific.

If you have an ETOPS 180min aircraft you can dispatch that aircraft on whatever route you want that legally complies with the ETOPS 180min/1200nm rules. ETOPS 138 will cover most, but not all Atlantic routes and as soon as weather deteriorates to the point where en-route alternates are no longer suitable, significant areas of the Atlantic can become unuseable.

ETOPS 138min could present problems for a route like MIA-LHR, as Bermuda is closed at night, you are very reliant on the weather being good in the Azores if winds dictate a southerly route.

The only time we operate to ETOS 138min/911 miles is when technical problems with aircraft force us to downgrade ETOPS capability of a specific aircraft from to 138min, which can make dispatch difficult.

I'm not aware that FAA ETOPS differs from JAR ETOPS in the aspects I mentioned above.



Approximate ETOPS 138min shading - in ideal conditions.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
timz
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Bermuda

Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:27 am

Bermuda is always closed at night? So it's not an adequate (or whatever the term is) alternate for eastward overnight flights?
 
Ejazz
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed May 22, 2002 10:26 am

RE: NWA Receives Etops Approval

Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:17 am

All but the last few of our Amsterdam to Chicago and return flights were ETOPS120 over the Atlantic without any problems or significant reroutings.
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