They've got a gate problem, not enough--thanks Delta   I heard they are going to build a new terminal. Has this even begun? Completion date? Why don't they want NW's old base instead of building a new one> By the way, does this mean they will do their own maintenance and not be at the whims of the Sabretechs of this world?

Well I have no first hand knowledge, I do expect that they will be announcing a second hub and possiblely a focus city or two. Anyone can see that right now ATL is maxed and will only get tighter until they add more space. I can see DL not liking that idea. With the new planes coming on line in less than a year it should be interesting to see all the changes that will be happening quickly. I could see also more point to point flights in markets that will support it and thus they would overfly ATL.

I too would like to see more point-to-point flights, and that's likely what will happen. BOS-PHL and MKE-BWI are examples of non-ATL, non-MCO routes that FL has already created. Let's see more. (They used to have MDW-PIT and MDW-ICT, but those were withdrawn due to lack of passengers.)

as far as focus cities/mini-hubs go, FL stepped into BWI very quickly after US closed their hub there, and they have been steadily adding service. a likely candidate for a 2nd hub.

BWI would work as a hub, could offer flights that do not compete with WN routes and it would be very profitable.

I think you will see some expansion at ATL. Not much because of gate space but they do well with what they got. Almost 200 flights a day out of 24-26 gates. Depending on there needs. I think once they start getting 737s you will see them first out of ATL. Don't know how much but since they fly to 44 cities, its real easy to put those airplanes to the west coast because of the high connecting traffic they have as well as the O&D out of ATL.

I would assume ATL will try to accommodate as much as possible. It is getting tight. There are plans to build another terminal on the south side of the airport(don't know when) but it will after the new runway is built. That will be done in 2005. There is also another terminal going to be built to expand the international concourse. That's definite. Don't know when that will start either.

As far as focus cities I think that's the game plan. MCO,PHL,BWI,MKE are all focus cities for Airtran. That will not change. Connecting dots is the way to go. Its cheaper and easier.

At one time ATL was 90% of Airtrans operations and now its about 75%. That number will continue to fall as they build more focus cities.

A new runway will be ready by 2005? I was there last January, and I don't recall seeing any construction. WILL THIS BE NORTH OR SOUTH OF i-285?

There is MAJOR construction going on at the ATL airport. There will be a new runway, a new international terminal and a new control tower. Most of the construction is north of 285, although they are moving dirt in from south of 285 for the construction site.

Much information on the construction project, completion dates, etc. can be found on the airport website:

http://www.atlanta-airport.com/Default.asp

At the home page, click on "site map", then under "airport information", click on "airport construction".

I think I read in the ATL paper that part of the runway will be over I-285. Lots of construction on the southside of the airport these days. All I know its gonna cost HUGE amounts of money to build, but it is needed.

I would love to see Airtran make a second Hub in Saint Louis since AA is cutting back there now

B777UA

I bet STL is the next big city for Air Tran. Plenty of room, big enough city and enough routes AA doesn't want to defend and SWA doesn't fly.

I think you may see ATL-STL but I don't think you'll see too much more. SWA is 1000 pound gorilla there and I don't think Airtran wants to mess with that.

If WN is a 1000-pound gorilla at STL, then DL is a million-pound T-rex at ATL. And FL has been messing with them quite well.

STL seems like a great focus city for FL. WN has actually reduced some service over the last two years, and while they will probably ramp back up in the coming months, there is plenty of opportunity for FL at STL.

Completion dates
Fifth runway: 2006
East Int'l Terminal: 2006
South Terminal: 2010

I would love to see Airtran take all of the new South Terminal. From the maps I've seen of how the airport layout will look in 2010, does anyone think it will possible to build at least one (maybe two) satellite concourse east of the new south terminal? It could be directly south of concourse A and the layout could look pretty much like the existing concourses.

WNfan
I too would like to see more point-to-point flights, and that's likely what will happen. BOS-PHL and MKE-BWI are examples of non-ATL, non-MCO routes that FL has already created. Let's see more. (They used to have MDW-PIT and MDW-ICT, but those were withdrawn due to lack of passengers.)

Don't forget the PHL-PIT service they used to run. Did that ever help to lower the trans-PA flight costs. Does anyone know why they stopped this service? It couldn't be for lack of demand, as every time I was on this flight it was full.
Initially I thought that it was due to lack of aircraft, as they cut the PIT-LGA flight as their route network was expanding and they had yet to bring on the old DC-9's.
NS

Originally the PIT-LGA route was on the 717s but when the route went sour they put the dc9s on it. The same for PIT-PHL. The demand on the route wasn't all that great. Usair matched there fares and the rest is history.

Don't forget the PHL-PIT service they used to run. Did that ever help to lower the trans-PA flight costs. Does anyone know why they stopped this service? It couldn't be for lack of demand, as every time I was on this flight it was full.

US Airways is the hometown airline in Pittsburgh, going back to the Allegheny days in the 1950's and '60's. There's a lot of local pride vested in US, as is often the case in medium-size cities that are hub markets for a major carriers. Also, the Pittsburgh business community has the US frequent-flier needle jabbed into their arm all the way to the bone. AirTran miscalculated by trying to set up focus operations at PIT.

AirTran may not have been able to charge fares on the PIT focus routes sufficient to cover operating costs at PIT, due to US fare matching. I wouldn't be surprised if US had predatory-priced and capacity-dumped them, but DOJ never looked into it.

Once US reduces the PIT hub to vastly-smaller RJ O & D operation, AirTran will probably be able to make a go of focus ops in PIT if they want to.

Also, I wonder if AirTran will do focus ops at DFW. I would think that would be a great opportunity, since Southwest seems not to want to enter DFW. To use WNFan's phrase, AirTran isn't afraid of T-Rex fortress carriers. In these fare-conscious times they could probably do well with DFW focus routes.

Jim

I think DFW has a lot of good potential. Valujet had a pretty good route structure there. MCO,FLL,TPA,MDW,BOS,IAD,ATL, and MIA were all served before the crash. I don't know how many gates they had back then. Airtran is suppose to be moving over to the B concourse in OCT and getting 2 gates. I can see more point to point flying out DFW.

ValuJet never served any destination nonstop from DFW other than ATL, and even then there were only 6 flights a day - therefore only needing 1 gate.

Travis

Didn't Valujet have a domicile in DFW?

We had a crew domicile there, yes. In fact, the crew lost on flight 592 was a DFW based crew, but there were never more than nonstops to ATL out of DFW. The only other non stop flights ever operated out of DFW were those to GPT by AirTran in 2000, 2001 and those to MCO which begin in October this year....

Travis

i wrote the below for another similar thread "airtrans new hub". i think that it is appropriate here too. just speculation.

i do not think stl would be a good hub for airtran. this is not necessarily to say stl is not a good hub location for another airline, but i would not recommend it for airtran. atl is too close to stl. for passengers going north-south along the eastern part of the country, atl and bwi serve the airline well. for passengers going east-west from the south, atl serves the airline well. for those traveling east-west from the north, stl would be more convenient than atl, but it would impede the catchment area of atl. i think mke or another northern midwest city would serve airtran much better.

if you recall, before the fall of twa, there was speculation that airtran would buy twa. in fact, airtran did formally acknowledge they were considering the move. of course, they decided this was not feasible, and one of the reasons stated was that stl was too close in proximity to atl, and it would not be economically viable to switch all operations from one to the other.

Believe it or not, I see ORD as a hub in the rising. Might sound odd to some, but if you think in total about all that is going on at ORD, major construction and expansion on the way there in couple of years, very much a possibility. Plus it will take at least that much time to add a significant amount of aircraft (73Gs) to start it up while the focus cities add routes for the more current additions to the fleet. Remember Hubs and new ordered aircraft take time to get in place, even at FL's pace!

Look for PIT-PHL to return before too long. Hearing lots of buzz about a hub at DFW as well. SFO added today. PHX probably next. Also hearing ABQ, SEA & SLC.

As US continues to offer less flights from PIT, Airtran will add back PHL-PIT eventually. The west coast cities will keep coming, however when does Airtran receive their first 73G's to take on these routes as will as LAS and LAX from the 320's

737s start arriving in June, maybe sooner but I doubt it. Ryan may be adding 2 or three more A320s in the interim. The Ryan operation may continue for quite some time along side the 737s. The pilots agreed to allow the service until we had 25 of our own longer range aircraft.

Believe it or not, I see ORD as a hub in the rising. Might sound odd to some, but if you think in total about all that is going on at ORD, major construction and expansion on the way there in couple of years, very much a possibility.

If WN and ATA didn't already both have hubs at MDW, an AirTran hub at ORD might be a possibility. Even well-located Chicago, with its third-largest metro population in the US, would have difficulty supporting three LCC hubs. Maybe AirTran might run some focus routes, but most of the best targets--LAX, LGA, PHL, BOS, SEA, PHX, DFW, are already run by ATA or WN. LA and New York are dense enough, maybe they could support AirTran along with incumbents.

There have been rumors in the Chicago press about JetBlue entering ORD and operating a small focus operation there. Probably LGB and FLL. But a B6 hub at ORD seems unlikely for the same reasons as for FL.

Jim

Just like I said, it sounds odd right off hand, but....It's a big market, hence the ORD expansion in the 1st place and it can happen 

i highly doubt an airtran hub at ord. even with the expansions, ord is too prone to delays. airtran does well out of atl, because atl has very few weather delays relative to other major airports.

A little bit to add to what [email protected] said about ORD. With SFO being announced yesterday, ORD is the largest airport in the country that does not (or will) have AirTran flights. With United's future (and American's as well) still a little shaky, some of their ops @ ORD could get reduced, allowing a new entrant to come in. Midway is home to the LCCs because of the juggernaut over @ ORD. Southwest really started the current wave when they moved into MDW within weeks of Midway Airlines Mk.1 folding. MDW works for some LCCs because they avoid congested airports as part of their business plan, and others because they don't want to pay the higher prices over @ ORD. If AirTran were to start service @ ORD, MDW would not suffer as a result. Look at the Washington D.C./Baltimore area, AirTran will serve all three metro area airports in October. And IAD and BWI probably won't see a large drop in pax as a result either. It's all about location and convience. AirTran serves MIA, FLL, and PBI, all three airports are really not all that far apart geographically; they also serve EWR and LGA, who knows, they might add JFK one of these days.

AirTran will have to eventually decide whether to go ahead and open up a hub somewhere in the Midwest or Rocky Mountain region, or just wait another 5+ years for the expansion @ ATL to allow them more gate space. Originally, AirTran was supposed to have gotten the old TWA gates on D, but they ended up going to Delta Connection. AirTran could probably add flights out of the City-owned gates on D (where the JetConnect flights operate out of), but it would be some tight scheduling coordination with the other airlines that operate out of those gates as well. Eventually, without additional gate space @ ATL, AirTran will have to speed up turnaround times so they add more flights @ ATL. But here's a solution I think could work. They take out the jetways @ 1A and 4, and make the entire area (including "The Hole") the JetConnect ramp. Mainline flights that would have gone out of those gates move over to the D gates JetConnect operates out of right now. Using the 1A/4 area is not an old idea, as it was where the old Eastern Metro Express operated out of (in fact someone scrawled Eastern Metro Express in the concrete when it was poured back when the area was built), and there is access to the ramp level from the gate level (the escalators have been blocked off, but you can still look down and see the old Eastern Metro Express waiting area.