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LambertMan
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NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:12 am

I read stuff about NW being unhappy at MEM all the time. It goes as far as to speculate on them dropping it completely as a hub. I find some of these claims to be rediculous, they would lose almost all southeastern/southwestern connection pax. Who wants to go from San Antonio to Minneapolis then continue back down to Tampa? NW certainly isn't willing to move a hub right now, and definitely isn't in the right shape to do so. And if this speculation is really true, where would they go?
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:29 am

Where have you read this "stuff"? ... provide a source please. I assume its just conjecture.
 
atrude777
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:41 am

STL? Wishful thinking I know...... Smile

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:57 am

I've read this "STUFF" for all of my bulletin board life all over the place. I doubt it will be STL, as nothing else has gone our way in a bit. But yes, I've heard that NW is unhappy w/ MEM numerous times over in USaviation.com, people who work in the airline industry, pilots, etc...

[Edited 2003-08-23 23:58:18]
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:06 am

MEM is known for its incredibly low O&D numbers (relevent to hubs of other major global carriers).... but NW doesnt really have all that many alternatives.

To close MEM and route all southern pax via ATL and IAH may someday be an option; but it's currently too logistically expensive, and may be seen as anticompetitive

[Edited 2003-08-24 00:07:55]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
TWFirst
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:14 am

"Unhappy" can mean several different things, but I don't believe Northwest management views Memphis as a "lost cause" by any means. To use what I believe is a more appropriate term, Northwest is 'concerned' about the current traffic and yield levels through MEM. I believe you are correct when you point out MEM is an important part of NW's hub-and-spoke route structure, and I'm sure NW management feels the same. What NW is planning to do, is reduce capacity through MEM due to the current market characteristics. I have been told that internal company communications describe downsizing many mainline routes through MEM to RJ's. No destination cuts are planned though, and the AMS flight would also stay. As a side note, the reason that flight switched from KL to NW is because NW found it more economical to fly that route rather than the IAD route (no IAD crew base, thus costs to fly in crew, overnight them, etc.), and KL was just fine with taking over the IAD route, so they switched.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
atrude777
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:23 am

Is it possible that NWA may do to MEM what AA has done to STL?? Reduce flights, and keep major cities at bay and not to EVERY CITY in the USA??

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
TheGov
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:14 am

As far as MEM goes, I can only offer my opinion with a few facts added as examples. Pre 9-11, NW at MEM offered an evening bank of flights with departure times centering around 2000 hours. Immediately after 9-11, this bank was eliminated. Was 9-11 the perfect excuse for NW to reduced the schedule and capacity at MEM? I do not know. But, as we all know, all the airlines reduced capacity and frequency post 9-11. However, within the last year, NW has re-established the 2000 bank of flights. To me, that indicates that NW has faith in MEM as a connecting point. I cannot, factually, state whether smaller aircraft are being used on the re-established routes or not. I suspect that they are.

With regards to the O & D traffic in MEM, it will always be low for NW. Why? A number of people have balked at the high fares being charged by NW out of MEM and will gladly drive to LIT or BNA to save money. If memory serves me correctly, the largest O & D market in MEM is the MEM-ATL market. And because it is served by AirTran, the fares charged by NW and Delta are reasonable. Otherwise and until the LCCs inundate MEM, the O & D market will be low while the O & D markets for LIT and BNA will most likely be high.
Always a pallbearer, never a corpse.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:21 am

In reality.. this is what is actually very likely to happen. MEM will be more or less a regional hub for northwest. Mainline feeder flights will come in, and most of the regional traffic wil be focused there...read: RJ capital of TN. Anyhoo.. this is from the grapevine, and we all know this can change in a heartbeat.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
TWFirst
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RE: The Gov

Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:25 am

Adding to what you said, as part of this capacity reduction at MEM, the word is MEM will have 5 banks of flights per day, with most mainline arriving and departing during the first and last banks.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:10 am

Don't read too far into those claims about being unhappy. Anything could happen. Both you and I know how rumors get spread. Someone somewhere says something whether they know anything or not about the situation and then before you know it, everyone is stating it as a fact. Look at the state of the industry and the state of NW. You could argue that NW is unhappy with DTW or MSP right now. No matter how you look at it, MEM is an important part of the NW route system and many things can and will happen to it in the future.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:22 am

NWA has too much invested in MEM to get rid of it all together, but I'd expect it to go the route of AA in STL and DL in DFW...mostly RJ's, with mainline service to the more popular destinations. Even though it's not exactly the nicest airport, it is a convenient, less-crowded connection point for many cities in the South.


Steve in New Orleans
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:20 pm

I don't know where that rumor came from, but NW *is* happy with MEM -- O/D numbers may be low, but excellent location & extremely low costs (thanks to FedEx) make-up for it.

NW is in the process of transitioning MEM into a regional hub. In the Fall, there will be four daily banks consisting of about 230-250 flights, of which all but 80 will be prop/RJ... mainline presence will gradually shrink, giving way to prop/RJ. NW will park, but not retire, a handful of DC-9 (mostly DC-9-50)...
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:24 pm

Also -- regardless of whether or not NW closes MEM (it will not happen), they are not interested in STL -- they've invested way too much into MSP and DTW, and STL would merely steal traffic. Who cares if it's a shorter route than MIA-DTW-LAX -- as long as the price & times are right, the public won't...
 
LambertMan
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:26 pm

Trust me Industrial pate, I do not think they are, regardless of my name. I never said they were either. Talk to atrude.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
dsuairptman
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:50 pm

In brief:

NW will stay at MEM. There are too many benefits and they outweigh the negatives.

NW will transistion MEM to a regional hub, following the moves of other South Centeral hubs.

NW will respond to lost capacity by activating a 5th bank.

I do not know when this 5th bank is slated to begin. Perhaps Industrial Pate and/or other NWA insiders could enlighten us.

That's it in a nut-shell
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
AlitaliaORD
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:11 pm

does MEM have any intl pax service?.......i think i remember KLM being there, they might still be.......can anyone confirm?
Joy To The World, All The Boys and Girls, Joy to the Fishes in the Deep Blue Sea, Joy to You and Me
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:28 pm

NW flies MEM-AMS daily.
 
tekelberry
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RE: NW And MEM

Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:17 pm

NW also flies to CUN if you consider Mexico international.
 
dsuairptman
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RE: NW And MEM

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:31 pm

NW also has a daily frequency to Vancuver from MEM.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:35 pm

YVR is seasonal -- it might not return next year...
 
gigneil
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RE: NW And MEM

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:41 pm

MEM is known for its incredibly low O&D numbers (relevent to hubs of other major global carriers).... but NW doesnt really have all that many alternatives.

MEM and CVG are in the same boat... very low O&D.

CVG has been an unqualified success for DL... and if NW put a little more back into it, they could probably do the same at MEM.

N
 
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yyz717
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RE: NW And MEM

Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:13 pm

Other reasonable intl spokes for NW MEM expansion include YYZ, MEX, LGW. I'm surprized NW has not added a MEM-LGW route....perhaps it was not to canibalize the AMS route.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
LambertMan
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RE: NW And MEM

Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:29 pm

Wasn't the City hall of Memphis lobbying hard for an LGW flight? As I was passing through there on my way home from California I rememeber hearing it or reading it somewhere.
Yyz717, They already have a MEX flight, but I agree with the other two, they seem like good probabilities.
 
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yyz717
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RE: NW And MEM

Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:46 pm

Thanks.....I wasn't aware that NW flew MEM-MEX.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Mon Aug 25, 2003 2:23 pm

MEM-LGW was heavily rumored pre-9/11; the rumors picked-up again late 2002, but to no avail (no surprise IMO). Daily MEM-MEX service was planned twice this year, but cancelled before the first flight operated both times… at this point, it doesn’t appear as though MEM (or DTW/MSP) – GCM will operate next spring… MEM-NRT was rumored more than once on a.net – I laughed each time  Smile.

MEM will never become a large operation like CVGCVG has a disproportionate amount of premium business travel for its size as well as an excellent location to major metropolitan areas… DTW and MSP will always (unless, of course, NW adds another hub like PHL via acquisition/etc.) carry the bulk of NW’s traffic.
 
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keesje
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RE: NW And MEM

Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:34 pm

pro MEM , NWA A330-200 will make more efficient MEM-Europe operations possible.

State of Tennessee will do anything to keep NWA at MEM .. so cost will stay low..

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And MEM

Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:12 pm

The problem with MEM is that it's the last link with the old Southern Airlines, and the terminal size too small for large aircraft. MEM never really grew as and airport. NW grew in size but the terminal never really grew with it. The Inflight Services office is kind of old. When I was based there back in '99, the Shelby County Council was supposed to introduce plans to enlarge certain gate areas for widebody aircraft in conjunction with the new, longer runway that FE and NW pushed for. There are 2 gates that can accomodate limited widebody traffic. The plan ultimately was shelved after 9/11 like everthing else. Like Industrial Pate said about NRT flights, I too scoffed at that idea. The only aircarft that could fly that route when MEM was at it's strongest, would've been the 777. NW hasn't ordered any and MEM could never support 747's to NRT. Unfortunately, while business traffic is down, NW will continue to scale down mainline operations at MEM for the forseeable future. When the market is solidly pushing forward, you may see MEM return to it's former push. But we'll see what happens.
Made from jets!
 
MSPXJGuy
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:57 am

Regarding the A330-200 comment about sending flights from MEM-Europe. Originally the A330-200s were switched from -300s to serve SEA-NRT and other Asian routes. The A330-300s wouldn't reach Asia so they swapped for -200s. I doubt NW will go much farther with providing more service to Europe out of MEM. If NW did provide more service to Europe it would be either out of DTW or MSP.

As far as regional service goes, yes it will be pretty much a regional hub. They are doing NYC and starting PHL service out of MEM on ARJs (which I love). I just wish MSP got more interesting ARJ routes (so I could have more fun using my buddy passes for others). Ive also heard rumors of MEM-BOS being a regional plane as well.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:37 pm

I would not count on any new European routes from MEM. AMS is really all they need. Easy connections to just about anywhere in Western Europe and beyond.

As a side note, When I was an NWA ramper, I put at least 20 to 25 AMS transfer bags on our evening MEM flight on a nightly basis, including many double transfers to Kiev of all places. Lots of foreign people that work on freighters arrive in the port of New Orleans and head back to their homeland via Northwest.


Steve in New Orleans
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:40 pm

In essence, NW placed an order for 24 A330 in January 2001… although the order was announced as 24 A333, the company was given flexibility to downgrade a (small or large) portion of the order to the A332 as they saw fit. As NW fights to match capacity to demand & also expedite retirement of the B742, they have made the decision to fly the A332 across the Pacific – the birds will debut in the spring on SFO-NRT (and I’d look for NW to take over SFO-AMS from KL to rotate the equipment). NW insists they’ll eventually order either the A340 or B777 (specifically the A346 and B773) to deploy across the Pacific…

In other words, the A332 were indeed purchased from the start for Atlantic operations. My bet is MEM-AMS will be operated by an A332.
 
Iflewrepublic
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:05 pm

Memphis will stay in NWA's greedy hands...period, end of discussion.

Iflewrepublic.
Aviation is proof that, given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:43 pm

Memphis will stay in NWA's greedy hands...period, end of discussion.

agreed... if NW was willing to deal with a PFC (they don't want to), maybe MEM could undergo some renovations... in any event, if NW left MEM I'm sure it'd attract attention (in the future) from AA, UA, DL, CO, etc.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:22 pm

This might not be the right time to bring it up, but...

Does anyone else find it amusing that the marketing Gurus at NorthWest, when they came up with the new acronym for the airline, NWA, had not heard of (or assumed that their passengers wouldn't have) the Hip-Hop outfit Niggazz With Attitude (aka NWA)?

Or perhaps they have, and they're having a little snigger to themselves!
come visit the south pacific
 
contrails
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:32 pm

I can't see NW pulling out of MEM. But if they did, I think WN would be in there in a heartbeat.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
ussherd
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:11 pm

Has NW ever considered using MEM as a hub for flights to Latin America?
Cada loco con su tema...
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:46 pm

Richard Anderson, the CEO of NWA has said that Northwest won't serve Latin America because it is being served to capacity. Plus with the alliance with CO and the pending codeshare with DL, I think tha will cement the idea. My gues is that NW will gradually pull out of Europe at some point in the future.
Made from jets!
 
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keesje
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:18 pm

My gues is that NW will gradually pull out of Europe at some point in the future

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy Amazing View !

Are you aware KLM/NWA JV fly daily AMS - Houston, Miami, Memphis, JFK, Newark, Boston, Washington, Minneapolis, Detroit, Chicago, Seattle, San Fransisco, Los Angeles, some multiple times a day ? And have zillions of codeshare oneach others networks ?

Apart from this also US flights to Paris, Gatwick, Frankfurt and AMS-Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto and other North Atlantic flights fall under the JV.


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jetjack74
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:40 pm

Keeje,
Bad choice of words on my part. Other than AMS, in the last few years, the loads there have been dismal. AMS is the only market that NW has thrived from. I have work the TATL flights alot over the last few years and it's not selling the way NW would like it too. Several times since 9/11, they've had to cut daily service to and from some of these cities. At one point, CDG, FRA had to be cut totally from the schedule due to low bookings. We as the crews loved the reduced service to those places, because we'd get 3 or 4 day layover. So let me re-phase that for you. I can imagine the possibility that NW will gradually move away from overflying AMS, (or CDG if that becomes a Euro-hub) at some point in the distant future. NWA is a codeshare-lovin airline.
Made from jets!
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:44 pm

.........Unles we were to gain access to LHR.
Made from jets!
 
hammer
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RE: NW And MEM

Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:50 pm

NWA is only going from 95 flights to about 70---and adding 20-25 RJ's...they are not going anywhere in MEM...
 
ssides
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RE: NW And MEM

Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:47 am

What aircraft does NW fly on its MEM-AMS route?
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
TWFirst
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RE: Ssides

Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:52 am

DC10-30

I'm on this flight in a couple weeks.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:57 am

Ssides asks: "What aircraft does NW fly on its MEM-AMS route?"

Currently a DC10-30. This replaces a KLM MD11 which will apparently be moved to Vancouver for the YVR-AMS run. The 767 currently used from Vancouver appears to be headed to Washington-Dulles where KLM will use it to replace the NW DC-10-30 formerly used on the IAD-AMS run.

 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:56 am

NW overflies AMS to LGW, CDG and FRA. FRA was never dropped from the schedules -- the Detroit automotive business fuels (no pun intended!) that flight. Any reputable carrier (keep your mouths shut, NW bashers!  Smile ) would have a hard time dropping service to LON and CDG... there was speculation that (not including flights to/from AMS) NW would operate 2xDTW-LGW (DC-10, B752), DTW-CDG (B757) and DTW-FRA (DC-10) and keep its current schedule seasonally... nothing ever became of it.

IMO, NW will continue to fly MSP-LGW, DTW-LGW, DTW-CDG and DTW-FRA. I think DTW-FCO will return possibly next summer, but I don't think NW will attempt DTW-MAD again... I think as long as NW operates alongside KL, any European service other than AMS will be minimal, but I wouldn't be surprised to see (seasonal at the very least) DTW-MUC one day...
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NW And MEM

Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:59 am

NW would operate 2xDTW-LGW (DC-10, B752), DTW-CDG (B757)

Interesting... has NW ever operated 752s over the Atlantic before? I'd assume not, as I was under the impression that the A333s were their first major ETOPS operation?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Guest

RE: NW And MEM

Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:01 am

No, they have not. It was pure speculation in early 2002.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And MEM

Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:00 am

Uh Ind Pate,
We did cut flights to FRA from daily to 4 days week back in Sept 02 and cut it completely for the month of Oct 02 and routed everyone through AMS. It was back again daily in Nov and been there ever since. We cut CDG from the Schedule back in Feb 02 for 3 months. It was in the our FA bid packet with a little note attached for the last inbound crew before it was temprarily stopped.
Made from jets!
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And MEM

Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:14 am

The buzz among the 757 pilots was that once the A330's are in full swing, that we will be looking at the 57 for the thinner, shorter routes to Europe. The 5600 series(ships 5636-5649), are partial ETOPS equiped. So there's a good chance you might see them in Europe. They came with capacity to install HF radios in them, the extra fuel tanks will need activating and overwater survival gear will need to fitted and installed. So if you haven't flown on one long distance, than you're in for a treat. I had to commute to and from Seattle for 3 years on those things.
Made from jets!
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And MEM

Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:40 pm

This was a good topic for discussion.
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