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OzarkD9S
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STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:20 am

We've discussed STL's future ad nauseum recently in light of AA's cutbacks effective in November. There has been talk of a possible Frontier hub, AirTran hub etc...Realistically, I have some thoughts and would like to hear yours.

Southwest: I know that WN is re-evaluting the STL situation. I could forsee the following new routes: SEA, LAX, OAK, MSY nonstop. Additional frequencies in existing markets. Less likely but possible: ISP, MHT, BDL, BNA.
Kansas City sees alot of similar service from WN so these are not out of the question.

Frontier: Announced their (3rd) re-entry from DEN. Possible: 1-2 DCA flights thru STL to DEN to compliment their lone DCA-DEN nonstop. Provided slots can be acquired. May add additional markets eventually, after they test the waters.

JetBlue: JFK seems like a good bet, tho they might wait till the Embraers arrive. OAK, LGB, IAD and perhaps a Florida destination or two down the road.

AirTran: ATL flights to begin with. Doubt we'll see a "focus city" from them, but they are always a surprise.

ATA: MDW possible, but WN has a good lock on that route. But ATA had scheduled service in the past from STL, maybe they'll give it another go.

Delta: SLC and DFW seem probable, most likely with Connection flights.

US Airways: RJ's to DCA and LGA might happen, they gave it a go awhile back and never penetrated the market. With AA's cutbacks...maybe.

Alaska: From SEA if WN doesn't hit it first.

Midwest: RJ's instead of props from MKE with a 4 times daily frequency seems possible.

So, we don't see 200 flights a day added to replace AA, but enough new entrants/added service to soften the blow.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:56 am

OzarkD9S, as a fellow STL'er we have to look at the bright side of things and not dwell on AA, if things pick back up, sure, we'll get some mainline back, and maybe even a 763 flight, I'm sure we could support it.
US: Expect the DCA RJ's I've heard that has been in the works even before the cuts
B6: I agree with you, wait till the Embraers, would make perfect sense for the STL area, 110 seaters can be supported to many markets from STL
DL: I've inquired about the SLC service to others including my neighbor, whom works in the airline industry, and usually knows most of the stuff going down. He said he hadn't heard anything about DL adding flights, dissappointed me.
FL: I think we'll see ATL maybe a flight to PIT or PHL, its a possibility w/ only RJ's by US and AX.
F9: PIT *supposedly* is lobbying hard for the mini-hub or whatever you may call it, but I doubt either city will get it, I think F9 is just using it as leverage to get the DEN gates.
WN: I was thinking something very similar, but I'd guess a PVD flight also.
CO: added 4 mainline departures in Nov.
HP: Got a AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS redeye, and an extra to PHX, been rumblings of a focus city here
TZ: Severly doubt it
AS: SEA 73G could work well
UA: My dad's client, a 744 cpt., based out of ORD, came into his office last week. I asked him if a LAX or SFO flight was in the cards and he said SFO was a good possibility, LAX, he kind of just brushed it off.
Some of these extra flights will ease the blow, but you know and I know from living in STL, that Slay is going to play ball with ANY AIRLINE to get them in here.
 
atrude777
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:00 pm

While very good possiblities.....

Southwest:BNA is too close to operate it, they never operated it in the past, its only a 4-5 hour drive, and I only live 3 hours maybe even shorter so I doubt it will happen......However...since WN's competition is the road and NOT against the Airlines, in a way it would make sense to add that route.

Frontier: I also see DCA, but since Great Plains has announced service to Washington Dc, I doubt Frontier will come in for that airport, but whon knows, all these are my opinions....

Jetblue- I believe Jetblue will come in with the small jets, w/ service to FLL, JFK and possibly, OAK unless WN grabs it first.

AirTran- I see a REAL definite possibilty....we may have Jetconnect come in first.

ATA- I expect STL-SFO first as MDW is locked in from WN, WN would KILL ATA on the STL-MDW route.

Delta- SLC is more possiblity as AA serves DFW non-stop, i expect to see COMAIR on that route or SKYWEST whihc ever delta connection is based in SLC.

US Airways- very slim, stay at regional

Alaska- Very surpised this is mentioend for the first time......I am sure this will be an awesome route, even better if we got STL-ANC if the -700 has the range, AA flie sit with a 757

Midwest- I expect to see a 717 STL-MCI.

These are my opinions!!

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
nonrevman
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:02 pm

I am surprised that DL connection has not started some DFW-STL service since AA is the only carrier on that route. WN cannot fly DAL-STL due to the Wright Amendment, so it seems like some competition in the Dallas-St Louis market should be in order. SLC-STL was attempted a few years ago by mainline, but it did not work out too well.
 
atrude777
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:05 pm

Regarding United Airlines, the express, has added STL-IAD.

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
atrude777
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:09 pm

nonrevman-

When did Delta fly that route?? I was almost 99% sure Delta has NEVER flown that route!!! if they did what was used? the 727?? or the DC-9? or MD-88 or 737?

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:13 pm

Atrude777, I in fact remember the SLC flight, a 6:45 A.M. departure to SLC w/ a 727! My friend was on it. I believe they had a 7 P.M. flight also, or some time around there. Didn't work out due to competition with at the time, TW and WN. SLC doesnt need that much capacity, but a few new RJ flights should do us well.
 
tekelberry
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:35 pm

Midwest: RJ's instead of props from MKE with a 4 times daily frequency seems possible.

I doubt it. AmericanConnection flights to MKE weren't cut that badly to require more frequency on this route. Most of the MKE-STL traffic was hub traffic for AA anyways.
 
atrude777
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:59 pm

OHh I would die if I saw that 727 in Delta Colors at STL!!!!

To bad it was cut, now that AA has dropped SLC hopefully DL will reinstate it, I am seeing a 732, 738, or even a MD88 on that route. AA used to fly a 757 didn't they????
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:31 pm

No, they never had a 752 on that route. I highly doubt we'll see any mainline DL from SLC, lets just hope for the CRJ's. STL is barely filling the 732's right now to ATL, as every flight to ATL will be downgraded to that from MD-88's. BTW, MD-90's are based out of SLC cause of its alt.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:50 pm

I was in STL today, and was speaking with the CSM there, she told me that they were ALL getting axed in October, I believe. You would have to have I believe she said 1966 seniority to hold a full time position as a gate agent, and 1975ish seniority to hold part time. WOW! I was floored! She also said the Frontier and SWA were coming in, at least that is the rumor.. All I can say is that terminal was packed...
 
TLHFLA
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:21 pm

I am thinking maybe the Delta downsizing to ATL that LambertMan mentioned might only last temporaily. That route may become more popular both as an O&D and as a hub feeder route for Delta. The O&D traffic will probably pick up since American is switching to RJs on that route. American's reduction in service to Florida will probably result in some extra traffic for Delta since ATL would be a good place to connect to Florida and other southeastern destinations.

I could see USAirways possibly bringing back some mainline flights. They had some to CLT until very recently.

Bill in ATL
 
WMUPilot
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:53 pm

ATA MDW-STL: I really don't think that that will happen again soon. However you may see STL-SFO,LAX,PHX,LAS. Possibly you may see Chicago Express on a STL-MDW route once we aquire some more aircraft to start expanding again
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:14 am

Here is what I've heard from the airport authority. Jetblue and Frontier have pen in hand ready to sign the contract to move in. USAirways are in discussions to increase RJ flights substantially. Maybe even with Embraer 170's. All other imcumbent carriers are going to step in service. Southwest is operating at 65 flights a day, the New East Terminal can support up to 150 flights.

STL is by no means going to slow down, however, the days as a major hub are coming to an end.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
learpilot
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:49 am

Whoever moves in, hopefully they'll hire me so I can move back home and get out of this bass-ackwardness they call Alabama!  Nuts

God I miss STL!
Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:03 am

Some good responses there. UA to SFO I hadn't really considered, but a morning flight to connect with Asian flights seems a no-brainer.

I still think YX to MKE would work if scheduled and marketed properly, emphasize East Coast connections. MCI seems a long-shot, WN has good coverage and the connecting opportunities from MCI westwards are slim.

DL Connection to DFW I still stand by. This market supported 4 carriers in the past and can surely support 2. AA is getting a very bad reputation in this town and I think almost any alternative would be embraced by the travelling public.

As far as Mayor Slay is concerned, with 2 empty concourses on the way and a new runway in a few years, he is the kind of man to cut a great deal for any airline willing to pick up some of the slack. I don't live in St Louis City, but he's one of the better Mayors STL has seen in good long time.

November is fast approaching, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear a few more announcements in the coming weeks regarding new/expanded service.

Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
as739x
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:30 am

For what its worth. On our long range plans, we have a SEA-STL flight. With many markets, I'm sure certain time of the year the flight would continue to ANC. Alaska is trying to get cost down, and have a very impressive expantion map floating around the company. Also let not forget that PDX-STL is probably just in the range of the CR7, QX maybe? Way down the road though.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
atrude777
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:46 am

Boeingnut

FRONTIER HAS signed the pen and will move in NOV 1, Jetblue however I haven't heard that, but if you say its from the airport authority then I guess I will take your word. Since I live near the STL region, I usually hear alot of the news as well but not the jetblue one.


I expect to hear announcemenets from Delta, Southwest only. Everyone else may trickle in....but Delta and WN prolly would love to add more flights at STL!!

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:02 am

Yeah, I've heard about B6 on KMOX radio. I think they had their cities confused though, they stated they'd serve CLT, MYR, and MCO Yeah sure. I was thining JFK and FLL at best hahah. Delta has said they have no intention of adding flights according to the KSDK ch. 5. NW has added one to MSP and DTW however. I'd personally like the 319's instead of the crappy old DC-9's. I was just on one to TVC, and my dad and I got seated in 5 E & F, wow talk about a first class ride. ALWAYS request those seats if you'll be in one of those nines, take my advice.  Big thumbs up
 
Air1727
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:19 am

Southwest Airlines will not boomtown Saint Louis at all. They have been told by the port authority that they will not be allowed any heavy increase in gate utilization until they can provide full capacity useage in the East Terminal; which right now they do not. All of the air carriers will increase capacity and frequency over time to fill in the marginal O&D gap that will exist once American is down to utilizing 18 gates. And, yes, the chances of Saint Louis becoming a hub again are slim to none. Carriers have no money nor the balls to start moving heavy capital and labor to start another heavy operation. Saint Louis will most definately slow down, and will never be supporting the capacity it once was. jetBlue and Frontier will be welcome sights for Lambert. Slay will play ball, but he is not stupid, and the city will be sure to not overkill their tenant placement. The Delta SLC flight (which I flew many many times) was left over from the Western acquisition which was operated by 737-300s and 727-200s in the end. Delta kept the three times a day schedule, and then reduced down to an evening arrival, RON, and then back at 6:45am; before the route was dropped along with several midwest and east coast flights that Western once operated out of Salt Lake City. Delta most definately will pick up slack in Saint Louis. They always move at the last minute. This time of year, Delta always reduces capacity out of Saint Louis, but once the travel seasons pick up, they will increase again, like they do every year.
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:24 am

I agree completely about the heavy increase in WN flights at STL. They seem very disconcerned w/ STL in general. WN has stated that they would like to stand pat however with their 8 or 9 gates in the East terminal. I see maybe OAK, SEA, PVD, and maybe PDX, but beyond that I doubt anything much.
 
TLHFLA
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:25 am

Was does everyone think about the possibility of Delta adding a mainline flight or two to CVG? I could see some additional traffic through CVG from STL, as it appears to be a convenient place to connect to the east coast.
Bill in ATL
 
Air1727
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:34 am

I wouldn't want to move out of the east terminal either; their cost of operation would increase because they would have to be under leasing agreements with the port authority. Southwest owns those gates; the rest are owned by Lambert. The only East Terminal gates still under full Lambert authority are E33, E31, and E29 (the old Southwest gates; still used for charters, Skyway, and all other international operations). Ahh E29, many many memories with that gate. Sun Country DC-10-40 to Las Vegas, American Trans Air L-1011 to Puerto Vallarta, Key Air 727-100 to Montego Bay, Mexicana 727-200 to Mexico City, Jet America to Dallas and Las Vegas, Sun Country to Minneapolis, Champion Air to Las Vegas, and the beat goes on ;(

Delta will intermittently add mainline service to Covington/Cincinnati using 737-200s throughout the year, but it is only fillergoop when ComAir cannot support the traffic. This hasn't been done since 2001 or so.

[Edited 2003-08-25 04:36:13]
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
atrude777
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:07 pm

ohh the beat goes on....ohh the beat goes on..drums keep pounding a rythm to the brain..la de da de da..


OHHH your talking airplanes..thought you were singing sonny and cher...anyhoo..



I thought the East Terminal was built in 2000, far to late to have those "old" airlines coming in??!?!

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:11 pm

Those E gates he is talking about were part of the D concourse back in the days before the East Terminal was built. They were renamed D to E when the terminal was finished.

[Edited 2003-08-25 05:11:33]
 
atrude777
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:27 pm

ohhhh ok, I gotcha!!!!!


Boy, thats one part of STL I didn;t know about!!

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
N777UA
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:33 pm

No offense to people in STL, but St. Louis just isn't the big money big business type of city that hubs really need to be, especially for major airlines.

Maybe that's the reason why Trans World was never too successful at getting a large business clientele.
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:01 pm

Well, granted STL isn't chicago, as I don't think it is, we still like to think we deserve a hub. I guess I'd rather have the Cardinals instead of the Cubs anyways Laugh out loud.
Back to aviation,
6 3 letter codes N777UA.......MEM, CVG, SLC, CLT, PIT, CLE...........point given.
 
ZID
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:43 pm

MEM - Struggling with low O/D, but the only southern hub that Northwest has, so making do with decent connecting numbers.

CVG - Primarily a regional jet hub.

SLC - The only true Delta hub for western connections, with the downsize of DFW a few years back. Therefore it's unique connection possibilities keep it going.

CLT - Southeastern hubs? ATL and CLT. That's all folks.

PIT - Well, USAirways quick reaction to dump the hub if not given gate and landing fee relief is a pretty strong indication of that airports poor fit in USAirways system.

CLE - Just slightly more than a mini-hub for Continental.

STL didn't fit well for American, but it could fit well for others. As long as the new runway allows for multiple ILS approaches to alleviate the congestion, and as long as the airport authority takes the opportunity with American releasing all of those gates, to tear down those gates and build a decent terminal. The current seventies reject terminal is an abomination.

However, regardless of the many deserved and completely necessary upgrades planned for Lambert; with the state of the economy and the expansion of O'Hare, I wouldn't hold my breath for another hub operation at STL.
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
cloudy
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:04 pm

Look at what Kansas City gets now. That will probably be STL's future. A lot of flights to other hubs. Maybe a couple small focus city/ hub operations . A modest increase in WN's presence. The AA regional jet hub plus a focus city's worth of mainline will still be there. A lot less traffic but a bit more variety. I doubt we will return to today's traffic levels for at least 7-10 years. A hub operation by anybody of the size of AA or TWA's former presence would be a pipe dream. I don't like to be cynical, but what was asked was what is likely to happen, not what we would want to happen or hope will happen. At least it will mean a little bit more variety.....
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:01 pm

Well, for what it's worth, here is an interview with the Airport Director on this issue from the St. Louis Business Journal.

Griggs: AirTran, Delta may brighten Lambert's future
Airport Director Leonard Griggs expects to replace the 210 flights lost to American cutbacks by the time the new runway opens in 2006. He talked about his strategy in a recent interview with the Business Journal.
08/25/2003

article

LoneStarMike

 
Air1727
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:52 pm

The three gates, E33, E31, and E29 (then 81, 82, 83) were never a part of D concourse, and were always the East Terminal. The East Terminal was constructed along with the Concourse D extension during Ozark's late tenure. The three gates were put there, along with a customs facility, to accomodate the then presence of the Military Airlift Command, British Caledonian, and Jet America. Two gates are widebody equipped with customs facilities. At the time, Trans World had rights to the widebody gates on Concourse C which also were the only customs and immigration gate facilities in the airport at the time. Lambert wanted to allow more international entrance if warranted, and that was where the East Terminal came in. Southwest begun to occupy the East Terminal in 1986 when they started service to Saint Louis. Not until the mid-nineties did Lambert create an overflow modular gate house at the end of Concourse D and also a modular extension off of the East Terminal to accomodate Southwest's increase in traffic which was being displaced by American Trans Air's increase in routes to Florida and Indianapolis. The current East Terminal extension was built onto the original, and kept the designation for commonality. The East Terminal always had its own parking, security check points, and ticket counters from the day it was completed along with Concourse D. The old East Terminal extension housed all entrance scheduled and charter carriers after the capacity fill of A, B, C, and D concourses. Charter; Sun Country, Key Air, World Airways, Tower Air, Trans America, Private Jet, Prestige, Northwest (MAC), La Tur, Champion Air, Sky Trek, American Trans Air, Discovery, and Miami Air International. Scheduled; Skyway, Sun Country, American Trans Air, Southwest, Prestige, Jet America, Air 1, Mexicana, and British Caledonian.

Saint Louis most definately has contracted the Kansas City disease of point-of-service operations. But to say Saint Louis is not a commerce driven town is quite the falisy. Saint Louis is an extremely heavy commerce and industrial city with an incredible rich history. There is plenty of big business, not too mention some of the nation's largest companies call it home such as Budweiser Brewing, Monsanto/DuPont, and Ralston-Purina.

Griggs, despite his marginal reputation in Saint Louis for being a bulldog manager, is quite the capable and sharp edged director, and he the perfect man to have in this situation. He was the only one to get the expansion pushed over the rhetoric and red tape, and he has told me in person he will not retire until the new runway is completed. Leonard is a cool cat. He works hard, and is no stranger to the politics and heart ache of aviation. If all goes well, and it will take some time for balance, Saint Louis will have one colorful ramp.

[Edited 2003-08-25 14:58:38]
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:51 am

Delta....there is a surprise. Good news though, maybe we will get CVG and ATL upgraded, I'd love to see a few 752's. AirTran doesnt come as much of a surprise to me, as I knew it was not if, but when. I don't know where they'll add to though. They said they were talking to HA Wow!. They are getting down and dirty to get new people in here if they are going that far. I would love an extension of like an HNL-SFO flight. Good article however, I've now determined that the post-dispatch is the most unreliable aviation source in the nation. Thanks for that about the D and E concourse Air1727, I never really noticed that was added on after the D concourse was built.
 
Tom in NO
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:13 am

As we all know, airport's that hang their hats on an airline hubbing there are, in many cases, skating on thin ice. The examples are numerous: US, EA, etc at MCI, AA at BNA and RDU, currently US at PIT, etc, etc. The airports are almost beholding to that airline.

If I'm the good people of STL, instead of losing sleep over the imminent departure of AA, I'm looking at the opportunities I will have: opportunities for increased services by my incumbent carriers, new carriers beginning service, includings LCC's. I'm also seeing more competitive air fares.

Leonard Griggs is a fine director of aviation. He was part of a small group of us that attended a Rangers game at the old Arlington Stadium a few years back. At the time, he had just moved to STL. For the old-timers here, he was previously at the FAA as the administrator. He does know his aviation, and will have STL positioned where it needs to be.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
atcboy73
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:26 am

LoneStar

That was a great article, thanks for posting it.

I have said it before and Ill say it again.

AIRTRAN!

If you ever flew through STL when TWA was in operation you saw that they had plenty of customers. They just couldn't get the fair they needed to make money. So, like I have said before, what STL needs is an airline that has the cost structure to support operations at STL.

We have SWA and I also think STL will have a large AirTran operation, so much that at some point it will force AMR to look over the situation again and maybe even discontinue the smaller hub operation.
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:13 am

How about TWA just returns, than we do not need all those specs

I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
upsmd11
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:02 am

As someone who lives in SDF, a non-passenger-hub city, the benefits almost outweigh the downside of it. Yes, you only have flights to hub cities or wherever WN decides to fly into from your city. But you usually have pretty low air fares with the LCC's flying in. If you are collecting FF miles you almost always have to connect so you get more miles/points. Plus, if you are on this web site you probably like to fly so you usually get double the flights to get to your city of choice.

There was a thread in this post about WN not serving BNA from STL. Someone said that it's too short... I looked on www.southwest.com and found no scheduled service as well. But WN does service SDF - STL, which is pretty short too. It's 328 miles from STL - BNA and only 281.85 miles from STL - SDF. So there must be another reason for no flights between the pair.

Cheers,
John
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: STL. The Realistic Future?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:17 am

I can't really imagine why the STL airport director would be getting that excited about DL expanding at STL. Other than some RJ's to DFW (4-5x daily) and SLC (3x daily), I really don't see DL having the interest or resources to expand much more. The only other city DL might serve from LGA would be MCO...probably with RJ's too as Song 757's would probably be too big. DL might make a few minor upgrades on the CVG/ATL routes, but nothing to get real excited about.

As others have said, I see STL becoming more like MCI only on a slightly larger scale. Other carriers will fill in where the O+D warrants it, but I don't see anyone rebuilding a hub there. Also, I expect AA to pull down its presence even further. The current schedule AA has for STL (starting Nov 1) is kind of stuck somewhere in between being a true connecting hub and being a pure O+D focus city. More flights will be pared down to the point that STL is purely an O+D focus city (125-150 flights).

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