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CO737
Topic Author
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:17 am

Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:34 am

Hi all,
A few months ago I flew to France with Ryanair, and as I exited the plane (an ex-Buzz BAe-146) and started walking to the terminal, I turned on my mobile to check my voicemail. One of the flight attendants then approached me and asked me to turn off my mobile because the aircraft was being fueled. Does anyone know what that's about?
Cheers,
CO737
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:50 am

Same reason every gas station in the USA requires that you turn off a cell phone.... the faint static electricity transfered from your phone to you is enough to spark a gas fire should you not be touching the ground/metal.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:01 am

Static electricity? A cellphone shouldn't generate any more static electricity than any other arbitrary piece of carry-on luggage.

Even so, earthing is not really relevant. You're not in contact with the fuel. If there was a conductive path between you and fuel, that would be an effective earth anyway.

They whould be concerned about:
1. A spark caused by, say, a loose battery contact (this might be a spark but it's not static electricity  Big grin )
2. RFI or similar.

Both of these are extremely unlikely to cause a problem, but I'm not going to fault them for erring on the safe side of the rules...
Cunning linguist
 
silverfox
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:07 am

Point raised about sparks. AFAIR with ref to petrol stations, it ISNT the use of the phone that could cause an explosion, more the PERCEIVED risk of a spark should you drop the thing. Having said that,Has anyone seen a notice banning boots with metal heels in them, or other metal objects that could cause a spark??

Thought so

But it is better to be safe etc.....
 
b744
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 5:48 pm

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:08 am

the faint static electricity transfered from your phone to you is enough to spark a gas fire That's quite funny  Smile

Actually, the reason why you aren't allowed to use cellphones at service stations is in case the phone develops a fault, thereby causing a spark and igniting fuel vapour (unless of course you have an intrinsically safe phone!)

 
WNfan
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:27 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:30 am

Has anyone ever heard of a reported incident at a gasoline station, which resulted in the injury or death of anyone? I have been unable to find a single occurrence.
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:55 am

A few years ago, when my old mate, with whom I was travelling, a 744 Captain, was re-filling our hire car in Mauritius, prior returning it just before flying home to LHR, there were numeorus drivers in the petrol station smoking, and occasionally holding their cigarette in the same hand as this filling nozzle!!

Whoops! But never heard of a nasty incident caused by it!

Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:18 am

Has anyone ever heard of a reported incident at a gasoline station, which resulted in the injury or death of anyone? I have been unable to find a single occurrence.

Yes, our local petrol station had a photo on the wall of a petrol station gutted by fire after a cell phone incident
 
Guest

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:20 am

Besides... my friends, we are talking about JET FUEL...
xxx
Have you ever tried to ignite jet fuel, kerosene, diesel fuel...?
A few years ago, I made the (stupid) mistake to put some jet fuel in my "Zippo" lighter, as a joke... After 100 attempts, the spark from the flint could not even light up that lighter. I finally got it burning with a match...
By the way, I had to throw that Zippo away, it smelled bad thereafter...
xxx
Airports getting "nervous" about non-smoking or no-cellular rules are merely thinking of gasoline fumes (petrol)... Jet fuel, diesel, kerosene are safe.

 
azo
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:59 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:21 am

Same reason every gas station in the USA requires that you turn off a cell phone.... the faint static electricity transfered from your phone to you is enough to spark a gas fire should you not be touching the ground/metal.

I have never seen or heard of a gas station requiring cell phones be turned off. Maybe its just an LA thing, but you shouldn't make generalizations unless you are sure they are true.
Kalamazoozoozoozoozoozoozoo
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:31 am

AZO---

You will find that gas stations throughout California, and soon to be all over the US have stickers advising that you turn off cell phones, don't smoke and if filling portable gas cans have them on the ground when filling (as opposed to in the bed of a truck.) It is based on an industry standard, not an actual law. (They want to minimize liability and advising you to do these things puts more of the liability monkey on your back should there be a fire/incident.)
 
AWspicious
Posts: 2780
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:47 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:41 am

Guys/Gals;
This warning is clearly stated in the owners manual for cellular telephones, and posted somewhat visibly at petrol stations, too. If the manufacturers and government feel the need to post such a warning, don't you think there's a valid concern? Granted, the risk of something happening may be low, but, a risk non-the-less.
Many experts will tell you how you can douse a match or cigarette in a pail of gasoline because it's the fumes not the liquid that is explosive. Cool! Good for them! However, what about the explosive gas rising from the ground when said expert over-flows his gas tank and spills gasoline all down the side of his gas guzzling SUV and leaves a pool of petrol on the ground for the next poor schmuck (a.k.a. expert #2) to drive into... While talking to his homies on his cellular phone trying to set-up da ladies fo da evenin. Can you say "fried chicken" ?
You get my drift. It's not a safe practice. So, turn off your cell and butt that cig before you fill up. Also, abstain from jumping the gun to call your new "port of call" until you are safely clear of the aircraft and the ground operations around it. Not such a big deal, is it?

Peace
A.W.
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:01 pm

Yeah. After taking a number of chemistry lab classes, I am fully respectful of the fact that it doesn't take much to ignite fumes from any hydrocarbon based fuel (i.e. gasoline, kerosene, propane, jet fuel, etc.). While the risk of you torching your car with a cell phone is considerably smaller than the risk associated with getting stuck by lightning, it does exist. The risk provided by the aircraft example is significantly smaller, but it could happen, and some schmoe inadvertently igniting tons of jet-A on a crowded apron could have some pretty horrific consequences.

Bottom line is, comply with safety regulations, b/c they are generally in place b/c somebody got hurt, so no one wants to repeat the incident.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
jplenny
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 1999 9:02 pm

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:18 pm

There is some risk with the cell phone, just as there is with static electricity. All it takes is a spark at a gas station and things will go up in flames.

Take a look at this video..

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA021216Static_fires_hunter.html
 
w_a_s_p_i_e
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2002 8:43 pm

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:11 pm

ive heard that it is dangerous to use a mobile in a petrol station but I was told by a petrol station worker that they say dont use mobiles because they can interfere with the pump, so numbers may stick, the calculations may be incorrect due to the mobile phone being near it.
 
WNfan
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:27 am

RE: Cell Phones And Jet Fuel?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:25 am

The guy in San Antonio was filling gasoline canisters that were inside his vehicle. That's a foolish thing to do -- I always remove my 2.5-gallon gasoline canister from the vehicle and fill it while it's on the ground. The reason is I don't want any gasoline spillage inside the vehicle, but now I realize there's a second reason I do it.

When I consider how many hundreds of thousands of people are filling their cars every day and how few incidents there are (the above-linked article referenced but three) I think it's really nothing to be worried about.

The topic did begin with jet fuel and using a phone outdoors while deplaning as the aircraft is being refueled. I have to think that many air passengers are using their cellphones while boarding in many locations, and we have never heard of a jetliner or aviation passenger being injured as a result of using a mobile phone will enplaning or deplaning.

My point remains: this happens so infrequently that it's not a worry.

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