Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:47 am

I have heard rumors from friends who work at AQ that they MAY be considering new routes and routes that extend beyond the West Coast.

Rumor has it that they may be looking for slots to fly to D.C. from a West Coast city. That would possibly mean HNL-OAK-DCA, or HNL-SNA-DCA, or some other options. Would be very interesting to see if they do.

Apparently they are doing very well on the HNL, OGG, KOA to West Coast markets and kicking ass with their competition, HA.

Who knows these days huh.
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:15 am

i would see them using the DCA slots out of OAK, as they have a bigger base there. they fly to LIH, HNL, OGG, KOA, and LAS from OAK
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:18 am

The LIH-OAK run was for the summer only. Seasonal service. They should have it year round. Maybe after it's successful summer season they just might do that. They should even start codesharing with someone else but UA. Maybe it can get them more feed out of OAK and SNA, BUR, PHX, LAS, YVR.
 
Paddy
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:03 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:27 am

It would be nice to see them get some REAL planes and go straight to DCA.
 
User avatar
Aloha717200
Posts: 3877
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:34 am

I predicted this might happen. IT seemed a logical step for Aloha to continue to expand within the contiguious 48 states as a feeder network to it's west coast hubs.

I didn't expect DCA though. I was eyeing a more central/western located city, or perhaps expansion into the SEA/PDX area to compete with HA.

And yes, being the dreamer I am I even had suspicions about SLC and DEN. If we think about it Aloha has got connections to Hawaii from BUR, SAN, YVR, LAS, and OAK, and domestic service to SMF, RNO, LAS, and PHX.

PDX or SEA would be a logical next step, and Aloha could easily compete against Hawaiian. And with the large success Aloha has seen on it's feeder flights from LAS and PHX to it's western gateway cities, they could certainly make a go of it at another western or even a midwestern city. with RNO and LAS already in place, I would lay some good money on the prospect of SLC perhaps seeing an inauguration of service to BUR. I wouldn't bet on service to SNA though, as they'd be going head to head with Delta there, and I wouldn't expect service to OAK either, as they'd be competing with WN.

But, to BUR, they could offer a direct flight and probably get away with it. So that's where I'd put my money. DEN is another prospect. In the midwest...who knows, we might even see some service into Texas. The biggest worry that Aloha will face is trying to compete with WN which has established very well the routes throughout the west, and because Aloha uses second-tier airports for the most part, WN is their biggest threat there.

Still, PDX, SEA, SLC, I'd be on the lookout for plans into those. As for eastern cities, that's anyone's guess. I hardly expected Aloha to think of DCA.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8250
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:39 am

How many 737-700's does AQ had, and how many more are they supposed to get.


This is strictly an unsubstaniated rumor that was passed along on here, so for discussion's sake....

There was mention of possible DTW-(West Coast OAK,etc)-HNL routing. In theory it could happen, but I wouldn't bet anything on it. NW operates DTW-HNL DC-10 service during the winter. Its possible it could go year-round in the future.
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:48 am

AQ is scheduled to get 10more 737-700s with winglets coming to them in the next year, spread over. They already have around 10 I think. Each will be retrofitted with winglets. SO, this may be another indication of longer haul flights stretching beyond the West Coast.

SLC, PDX, SEA, SAN, DEN, COS were all talks prior to ALOHA starting there first flight HNL-OAK. These may all become a reality someday soon. But DCA was just mentioned from a friend of mine who works at AQ.

Also to go beyond the southpacific. They already serve Majuro, Kwajelin, Raratonga. All doing exceptionally well.

The 10 more 737-700s that are coming to them will relieve there old 737-200s used for the interisland market. As they don't need so much now because of the reduced interisland schedule that have taken place over the last 2 years. Also this will give them 1 737 type to play with.

 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8250
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:52 am

That is not true, the inter-island 732's are staying for the forseeable future. The 73G is way too much aircraft for the interisland routes.
 
Guest

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:55 am

There's one possibility no one has mentioned. DC has no service to Sacramento (SMF). None of the DC area airports have that route. Yet Aloha currently serves Sacramento. So, a DCA>SMF>HNL routing is not over the top.

And the extended range 737s are perfect for DCA since its longest runway is 2094 meters (6869 feet).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Je89 W.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter

 
WNfan
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:27 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:00 am

I'd like to see them expand into the Pacific. Guam and Palau come to mind first.

My cousin is moving to Palau for one year, and airfares are currently very high thanks to the Continental Micronesia monopoly.
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1946
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:05 am

Aloha currently has 10 737-700s which are going to be retrofitted with winglets beginning this month. Aloha also has 10 737-200s used for interisland passenger flights and 4 737-200QCs used for interisland cargo flights. Aloha has expressed that they would like to increase their fleet of 737-700s to 14 within the next year or two--for more trans-pacific routes. Aloha has NOT ordered 10 more 737-700s for interisland routes and I doubt they will.

As far as DCA or other east coast cities I think Aloha could pull it off, particularly from OAK. I also see them expanding to more west coast and mountain cities like SEA, PDX, COS, SLC or DEN. Aloha is a great little airline with alot of growth on the horizon.

Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
Leneld
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:00 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

I would love to see Aloha Airlines take on Hawaiian air out of PDX. As of now Hawaiian has a monopoly on all direct routes to the Hawaiian Islands from Portland daily to Honolulu and 4X a week to Maui. It has just been reported that during the summer months of 2003, there has been a 5 percent passenger increase compared to last summer. Who knows. Maybe other airlines could add services here as well to other destinations!
 
User avatar
Aloha717200
Posts: 3877
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:13 am

Actually, the 737-700s will NOT be replacing the 732s.

The 737-700 is not designed for such high-frequency, short haul hops. The engines on the plane would suffer from much wear and tear on flights like these, which is why Aloha has not already begun replacing the 732s on interisland routes with 737-700s.

The thing about the NG 737s is that they're designed to fly father and that's where they're most economical. Aloha, if it is to replace their 732s (which has to happen at some point), will need to look at an aircraft specifically designed for short haul, high frequency routes. Otherwise the maintenance costs will kill them and not bring much of a benefit to the 732 replacement.

Aloha was looking at Avro RJ's for a while as these planes were designed to do just that: short haul, high frequency, and with wide cabin to boot. Then Avro went out of business. As of right now, the 717 is the best suited for the interisland market, and I dont see Aloha wanting to change to something like an Embraer or Bombardier RJ unless they had to.

The -700 will not replace the 732s.

I forgot about SAN, yes, that's probably THE most likely next destination in the western US.
 
SunValley
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:51 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:50 am

SLC would be a good move for AQ. Largest Group of Pacific Islander population on the mainland is in SLC, and they have the highest ticket lift for Thru passengers to Tonga of any US City
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5029
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:52 am

UA attempted SMF to IAD flights back in 1999. They lasted about a year. Turned out there wasn't as much traffic as expected between California's capitol and the Nation's capitol, even with feeding UA's hub for the East Coast and Europe.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:02 am

It would be nice to see them get some REAL planes and go straight to DCA.

Heh... no "real" plane with sufficient range capability for HNL-DCA would be allowed to land there - except a BBJ or A319LR.

The 737-700 is not designed for such high-frequency, short haul hops.

I dunno... I think WN might disagree.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

N
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1946
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:08 am

"The 737-700 is not designed for such high-frequency, short haul hops."

"I dunno... I think WN might disagree."

There is quite a difference between WN's flights and Hawaii's interisland flights. Interisland flights are about 18, 22, 30, and 45 minutes in length. The average is probably between 25 and 30 minutes. This is probably quite a bit less than WN's average flight length for its 737-700s which I would guess is over 1 hour and possibly closer to 2.

Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
User avatar
Aloha717200
Posts: 3877
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:10 am

WN's shorthaul flights are alot longer than the extremely short interisland flights. And those that come close don't make up the entire systemwide network. But AQ faces the fact that all of it's routes interisland are extremely short-haul. Granted, the -700 is very efficient on the HNL-SNA runs and likewise, but interisland, the losses from maintenance would serve to lessen the benefit of that efficiency.

We might consider LAS-SNA to be short haul, high fequency, but it's not in the same league as HNL-OGG 7 times a day (or so).
 
User avatar
Aloha717200
Posts: 3877
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:11 am

Wow, Aloha 73G you must have replied as I was typing my reply.  Big thumbs up
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:25 am

I believe there's a range limit for DCA, west coast cities being too far.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:37 am

I don't understand the logic above that AQ kicks ass over HA on Hawaii-mainland traffic- you know, it's a lot easier to fill a 737 than a 767.
 
tbear815
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:52 am

I can see AQ going to DCA, however I don't think it would be out of any of the hubs, like SLC or DEN. Now, if the -700 could do nonstop HNL/OGG to MDW, you could have pick-up in both WAS and CHI. If they did do a W/C stop, I'd put my money on SAN.
 
Leneld
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:00 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:54 am

Aloha717200- This Question is directed to you... What about Aloha Servicing PDX?
 
expressjetphx
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:33 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:28 am

Personally, I would like to see AQ starting nonstop OGG-PHX, LIH-PHX, and HNL-PHX (instead of OGG-SNA-PHX.) I think that AQ could definantly get into the DCA market, and like Tbear815, I'd put my money on SAN. For interisland flights, I'd like to see AQ operating something along the lines of a CRJ700/900 or an ERJ145/170/190.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:35 am

I believe there's a range limit for DCA, west coast cities being too far.

1,250 miles... but smaller or disadvantaged carriers seem to be able to get slot exemptions.

N
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:20 am

This is directed to ETAUnknown. YES it IS easier to fill a 737 than a 767, Why do you think ALOHA is using a 737 and not anything BIGGER than that? It has the right airplane for the flying that they are doing and they are doing it WELL. If AQ went head to head with HA on ALL of the routes they fly, I think AQ would still kick ass!!

But that is just my humble opinion.

Aloha
 
tbear815
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:48 am

I honestly think AQ's business plan is very well executed. What they do, they do well. Cautious growth, the right equipment, a reputation for good service, and well thought-out routes are things AQ is doing. If you look at AS's early growth, there may be some parallels. Maybe if there are so many financial problems in the industry, our 49th and 50th states' "local" airlines should merge. Some good connex, crew bases already set with no overlap, and fleets attuned to their respective destinations. It just may be a good image tough to beat. Just a thought.
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:54 am

Well thought out response Tbear815

Aloha
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5029
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:54 am

I'm still waiting for the "Navy Shuttle" - HNL-SAN-FAT  Big thumbs up
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:57 am

FATFlyer, don't count it out, it may just happen one day. Someday it would be nice to see ALOHA birds flying here intra-California style.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5029
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:21 am

I don't count it out at all. There is lots of Fresno to the Islands vacation travel.

I've posted this before, but most people don't know that Fresno is the closest airport to the largest Naval Air Station (NAS Lemoore http://www.lemoore.navy.mil/) . Combine that with SAN and HNL and there could be also be Navy related family, friends and business vendor traffic to capture between the 3 areas.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
Aloha717200
Posts: 3877
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:23 am

Well, again, if AQ wants to have a serious intra-california network they will have Southwest Airlines to worry about. But they might try and work around WN. I doubt they could compete, WN is well established.

For Leneld:

I think PDX may happen someday. Probably around or before the time SLC does. I'd imagine that either SEA or PDX will be the next cities to get service to Hawaii, AFTER SAN gets it. I'd lay odds that SAN will be the next airport to see AQ service to Hawaii. If that doesn't happen I will be surprised.

SLC could happen anytime really. Aloha tends to expand their domestic destinations at a different pace than they do their pacific gateways. What I'd guess is that if Aloha expands into SAN, start looking at ABQ, SLC, DEN, COS, or something in that region, to get feeder service.

If any city other than SLC gets that new service, then look to PDX for expansion next, because if SLC doesnt get it just after SAN, then it may be a while before SLC sees service from Aloha at all. PDX should get service before SEA, as SEA already has many carriers offering flights to Hawaii, but PDX only has Hawaiian. Aloha knows, I'm sure, that it could enter the PDX market and make a killing.
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:12 pm

Aloha had SAN in mind prior to HA starting that particular route. But, when HA did that, AQ decided not to. That is my understanding. It could still enter the market, and as well they should. Has anyone been keeping track of the airfares that HA charges for such a route? It's RIDICULOUS!!! Aloha may be doing the wait and see thing. Meaning wait and see what happens with HA on the route and if they come out of yet another chapter 11 bankruptcy. I can also see PDX starting good idea actually maybe a HNL-PDX-SLC or HNL-PDX-DEN/COS. SAN may be just around the corner for AQ. I hope. I would love to be on that inagural flight.


Stay tuned

Aloha
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:17 pm

I hate to burst the bubble, but DCA has both the perimeter rule and slot restrictions.

There was an Act of Congress that made some beyond perimeter slots available to new or "disadvantaged" airlines, but these slots were all allocated.

Supposedly, there may be a new Act which might open up a few more beyond perimeter slots, but every airline will be fighting tooth and nail for these.

When TWA closed down, their beyond perimeter slots became available - one take off, one landing at DCA - and most airlines applied. Alaska got the slots.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:26 pm

AH! Yet another one thinking that the world ended today. Possibilities are endless.

 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5029
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:31 pm

Aloha717200,

Don't forget that WN has not entered FAT yet so the market would be available to establish SAN-FAT first.

Also don't forget the Aloha is now competing with WN on SMF-BUR, SNA-PHX, LAS-BUR, and OAK-LAS. On select routes with 1 or 2 flights I don't think there is a problem.

I do agree there is a good chance that SAN is next, but Aloha seems to be doing a lot of tag flights, so FAT-SAN-HNL is strongly possible. Of course so is SLC-SAN-HNL.  Big grin
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:34 pm

FATFlyer-

You are so right. Right on brah!

Aloha,

FLIBOYZ
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:20 pm

Maybe they will start something like HNL-SAN-DCA or HNL-PDX-DCA or HNL-SAN-PDX. That would be cool. There's all kinds of possibilities. But whatever they do, I think they will do well.
 
Bluewave 707
Posts: 2794
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:49 pm

AQ is not even considering the 737-600, nor the 2nd gen -500. I got this info directly from the source, AQ CEO Glenn Zander. He is aware that the -200s will have to be replaced in the future, but they are still reseaching which aircraft will replace the -200, and did not divulge the candidates. Of course we can only speculate ...

That would be interesting to see: HA and AQ 717-200s. Almost like OC and PS MD-80s back in the day at California airports.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
HAL
Posts: 1773
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:48 pm

You really didn't think you could get through this entire string without an HA fan chiming in did you?

Some previous comments:

Apparently they are doing very well on the HNL, OGG, KOA to West Coast markets and kicking ass with their competition, HA.

Apparently you haven't been looking at the financials. Aloha reported a 4th quarter 2002 loss of $29.8 million, and a 1st quarter 2003 loss of $12.9 million. They haven't reported the 2nd quarter yet. Hawaiian on the other hand had a modest profit of $7.7 million for the first half of 2003. You can have great service and nice customer support. But if you keep losing money, you won't be doing it for long.

The 10 more 737-700s that are coming to them will relieve there old 737-200s used for the interisland market. As they don't need so much now because of the reduced interisland schedule that have taken place over the last 2 years. Also this will give them 1 737 type to play with.

FLIBOYZ, if the rest of your information is as inaccurate as this, you'd make a lousy reporter. (Or a great one for the 'Weekly World News')! As stated above, there's no way they'd use the -700 interisland. They'd trash the planes and lose a huge wad of money doing it.

Personally, I would like to see AQ starting nonstop OGG-PHX, LIH-PHX, and HNL-PHX (instead of OGG-SNA-PHX.)

I'm sure AQ would love to do that too. However the -700 just can't make it that far with much more than an empty plane and still meet the ETOPS fuel requirements. Even on the routes if flys now (YVR, ANC) they often have to either stop in OAK on the way, or leave all the luggage behind and ship it around through the lower 48. I've met some really pissed off passengers who had to wait a day or more for their luggage to show up from those flights. Not a pretty sight, especially when one group was arriving for a wedding the next day. The bags showed up with 1 hour to spare.

I honestly think AQ's business plan is very well executed.

Sure, if continually losing buckets of money is the business plan.

Maybe if there are so many financial problems in the industry, our 49th and 50th states' "local" airlines should merge. Some good connex, crew bases already set with no overlap, and fleets attuned to their respective destinations. It just may be a good image tough to beat. Just a thought.

I'll agree with this one, but only for HA!  Big grin There's been a lot of talk among the pilots about it, and it is one of the best mergers we can think of. HA & AS would be a great powerhouse in the Pacific rim if merged.

Has anyone been keeping track of the airfares that HA charges for such a route? It's RIDICULOUS!!!

Has anyone looked at the financial results of the airlines? Maybe you think you have a 'right' to cheap tickets, but the airlines also have a 'right' to make a modest profit or else face going out of business. (Oh yeah, that's right, many airlines already have because they couldn't figure out that you have to charge at least what it costs to fly the route!!!!!)

OK, that's my 2 cents+ for you. Fire away.  Smile

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1946
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:21 pm

This is not my idea or a thought I had, but I saw it posted somehwere else and it made sense. Basically it is:

Hawaiian is a publicly traded company under bankruptcy protection. It is in their best interest to use 'liberal accounting' to make it look like they are making as much money as possible this summer before they bleed as all airlines do in the fall.

On the other hand, Aloha is a privately held company that just got wage givebacks from employees (as did HA). It is to Aloha's benefit to make it look like they are doing less well than they are....say 'conservative acconting' that is easy for them to pull off because they are not under the scrutiny a public company would be. It seems feasible that Aloha may be 'hiding' money by say, paying off debt, so they don't have to give back the wage cuts. Just an idea.

Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:28 am

HAL-

GREAT!!!! BUT what airline is in BANKRUPTCY for the second time?
B
A
N
K
R
U
P
T
C
Y

spells......HAWAIIAN AIRLINES

Aloha will be getting more aircraft over the next year or so. As far as them using it for the interisland market, well, that was a rumor not a true fact. OOPSIES on my part.

But, HA may have posted a profit, but probably in part because of being UNDER CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY. HMMMMMMMMM

Go figure.

Chime bells went off.....gotta go answer it.

Aloha

P.S. Aloha still rocks
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:35 am

Hal-

Another news clip that I read recently in the Honolulu Advertiser recently said that they were trying to stop paying into the pilot pension fund because HA had only something like $75million dollars or something to that effect and if they had paid into the fund of I believe $45million, correct me if I am wrong, soon, that by the ending of the year HA would not have any cash left, or is it called reserve cash, isn't that the same.

And if THIS is INCORRECT, than I am a lousy reporter, not that I call myself a reporter, not even close. That's why this is called a forum to get info and talk about rumors. Or facts. If there are any.  Wink/being sarcastic ;0

Aloha
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:37 am

Hey FLIBOYZ,

Gloating in this business is REALLY bad form. What comes around, goes around. I don't work for either HA or AQ and never did, it's just that I know better than to pi$$ on someone when they're down. It is a VERY SMALL world in this business, and you might be having to kiss those boots you just sh!t on.

I'd watch it. You could be next. Try growing up....fliBOY.
 
FLIBOYZ
Topic Author
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:17 am

M717-

I don't work for HA or AQ either. And I will never kiss anyones ass or boots for that matter. However, I have been in this industry long enough to know that it could happen to me too. But don't care. If it happens it happens. I move on.

But from personal interests, AQ is my favorite over HA any day. See I used to fly on HA years ago, they have changed for the better, I give them credit for that, but the bad taste they have left me will never go away.

So it ends here. My last comments on them. Because this forum here is getting off track already.

I think the subject posted was Aloha to the nations capital.

Later,

FLIBOYZ
 
contrails
Posts: 1314
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:52 am

Are there any slots open at DCA for Aloha? I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that all the slots had been assigned.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
zrs70
Posts: 3762
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:05 am

If they really want to capatolize (punn intended), they will offer one-stop HA-DC though west coast capital cities. I'm sure that SMF would love a NS to DCA, as would RNO (Carson City).
20 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2020
 
I LOVE EWR
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:07 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:16 am

FLIBOYZ, GROW UP!!! You say you are 26-35 but I doubt that, furthermore what airline do you work for (if you really do)?

Anyway the aviation industry effects MILLIONS of people every day. Some more than others. YOU might not care when an airline goes bankrupt or is going through hard times but what about the people and families that lively hood depend on an airline to stay in business.

I am sure that at ALL the majors there are people who's family income soley comes from that airline. What about those families who work for an airline and then they get laid off or put on furlough? What do you tell the young children of these families when 'Santa' can't put as many kids under the Christmas Tree or that a kid's Birthday Party might not happen?

 
FutureFO
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:59 am

I seriously doubt that DCA would get the flites. I see either IAD or BWI getting the routes.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
HAL
Posts: 1773
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Aloha To The Nations Capital?

Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:21 pm

Oohh. Ouch. That really hurt. zzzzzzzzzz.

As for this:

Hawaiian is a publicly traded company under bankruptcy protection. It is in their best interest to use 'liberal accounting' to make it look like they are making as much money as possible this summer before they bleed as all airlines do in the fall.

You've got to be freakin kidding! Do you realize what kind of microscope a company in bankruptcy (especially one being run by a trustee) is under? Our financial records are spotless, spit-shined, and hopefully accurate to the penny. Otherwise we end up in a world of hurt.

Then this:

Another news clip that I read recently in the Honolulu Advertiser recently said that they were trying to stop paying into the pilot pension fund because HA had only something like $75million dollars or something to that effect and if they had paid into the fund of I believe $45million, correct me if I am wrong, soon, that by the ending of the year HA would not have any cash left, or is it called reserve cash, isn't that the same.

The $45 million is the total due over the next 25 months. The current payment due is is about $5M this month. I won't go into why these types of pension benefits are so important to pilots (whose careers are much shorter than other airline employees). That would take up another whole long string. What the union (and other airline pilot groups) is pushing is a bill in congress that would require the airlines to continue the pension plans without ending them, but would allow reduced payments in bad financial times. It is H.R. 2719, and if any pilots out there haven't heard about it, I'd suggest reading about it and writing your congressman. It's that important.

And finally for FLIBOYZ, read what I LOVE EWR said above. It really is true in this business - It's way too small to start out with a bad reputation. Relax, and try to act a little more mature on this board. I think you'll find it a bunch of smart, professional people here who don't appreciate juvenile behavior.

HAL

One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos