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PVD757
Topic Author
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:55 am

Looked quick, didn't see a similar post....so here goes: Spokane-Las Vegas starts 1/17/04. New Saturday only flights (1/24/04): TPA-LAX, MCO-LAS, MDW-SLC, ONT-RNO. Not listed, but stumbled upon looking at PVD's schedule for Jan. 04: PVD-FLL (saturday only) has been re-instated! Just thought I'd get the word out.

SIDE NOTES: Thought for sure they would be opening a new city with the January schedule. Thier schedule now runs through 3/6/04, I bet we'll see a new city then! My top guesses are: ABE, RSW, RIC. What do you think???
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:25 am

I am, to this day, still utterly shocked that WN does not operate at RSW. Could see that coming online for them soon.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
F9Widebody
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:47 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:30 am

I have always wondered why they don't fly anywhere in Colorado. They always say the landing costs are just too expensive. I find it a little hard to believe that the landing costs at COS are higher than SNAConfused
YES URLS in signature!!!
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:44 am

I am, to this day, still utterly shocked that WN does not operate at RSW. Could see that coming online for them soon.

What is so freakin' special about RSW???
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7071
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:35 am

RSW probably won't see WN service for a while for several reasons. First and foremost is that there's no room at the inn right now -- there aren't enough free gates in the terminal until the new one is finished in 2005. Also important is the fact that RSW's traffic is probably more seasonal than just about any other airport in the state. Traffic numbers are weak from May through November with a particularly large historical drop in September unrelated to 9/11; September sees barely 35% of the passenger numbers of March. Finally, RSW's geography is poorly suited to WN's short-haul business model. FLL, PBI, TPA, and MCO are all within 2-3 hours' drive of RSW, leaving little opportunity for short-haul flying to other Florida airports aside from JAX. While they could probably scrape together 10 daily flights to HOU, MSY, BNA, MDW, and BWI, there are likely far better opportunities at present.

It doesn't matter if landing fees are relatively high at SNA; yields are very high there as well owing to the airport's slot restrictions. Given that SNA's slot restrictions are not congestion-related, it makes sense for WN to operate there since they can sell a high percentage of full-fare tickets and manage to operate on time.

I agree with others that COS service is simply a matter of time. I suspect that WN has stayed out of COS until now simply because they've had better opportunities. I'm sure they had little interest in getting caught up in the WestPac/Frontier/United bloodbath in the late 1990's, and there were so many high-fare East Coast markets dominated by US Airways that were just ripe for the picking. As an aside, I remember hearing that Herb Kelleher was once asked in an interview what the top three reasons for Southwest's success were; his answer was "USAir, USAir, and USAir." As the number of opportunities in the East (read: relatively uncongested airports serving medium to large metro areas where US Airways is the dominant carrier) diminishes, I believe they will fill in some of the holes out west, like COS or FAT.

I'm really, really surprised we haven't seen any announcements about STL, though.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4417
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:40 am

When I saw that I was really for sure expecting STL on the list, guess not  Sad come on southwest we are waiting for you at STL!!!

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
PVD757
Topic Author
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:50 am

I too was also surprised that no additional STL was announced. Opening only one new route in the middle of Jan. gets me thinking a little about something... I read somewhere that WN was taking delivery of 3 or 4? more aircraft by the end of the year. Assuming they get 1 or 2 each month, a rough count of at least 7-8 new airframes by the end of their March 6th schedule. Spokane-Vegas can't use up much more than 1 or 2 of those, and even if they retire 2 or 3 -200s that still leaves 4 or 5 new airplanes sitting around by March 04....something "big" might be coming next March!
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:13 am

Hmm...does seem a bit odd. Griggs has stated FL could have a big presence in the future at STL so maybe WN is going to wait it out and see what FL is going to do. I'm told DL is doing that on their ATL-STL runs from my STL contact. It appears to me WN is carefully planning out their moves as they don't want to rush into a situation that has absolutely no time constraint, and they also want to see what all the other carriers do besides FL. And for the doubters, the WN service is coming. They contacted STL the day after the cuts to say they were interested so we know its going to come, just how much and when.
P.S. STL fans, we've got a LOOOOOONNNGGG way to go so you'll have to be patient. Service will come! Big thumbs up

[Edited 2003-09-19 03:17:17]
 
PVD757
Topic Author
Posts: 3285
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RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:10 am

Lambertman...see what you can do to get a PVD roundtrip or two!
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:23 am

I wish, my connections are good in a guy who works for the airport, he just gets all the rumors. But moving on, I bet we'll get PVD or MHT. PVD would be great because my family lives there and the same thing with SEA.
But looking at your new destination list there is one slight correction. RIC has talked to WN in the past months and they have notified RIC that service will not be coming online until at least 2005. Sad Besides, FAT is the hot topic, and for once the rumor actually makes sense, so it seems plausible. Happy trails.  Big thumbs up
 
atrude777
Posts: 4417
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:38 am

I sure hope WN commits to STL, we need them to add frequency to OKC, and MCI, and ABQ and the other cities that were dropped from AA.

Lambertman- What are your expectations for STL-ATL-STL for Delta? Are they waiting to see what AirTRan will do on that route? Talking with someone else, he said dreaming wise not to be surpised if we see a 767 during the heavy runs between STL-ATL. I dunno how realistically that is, maybe a 738 or a 757 but certainly not a 767?? I am tired of being pateince lol I WANT SERVICE NOW!!!

ALEX.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
SWAFA30
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:57 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

I read somewhere that WN was taking delivery of 3 or 4? more aircraft by the end of the year. Assuming they get 1 or 2 each month, a rough count of at least 7-8 new airframes by the end of their March 6th schedule. Spokane-Vegas can't use up much more than 1 or 2 of those, and even if they retire 2 or 3 -200s that still leaves 4 or 5 new airplanes sitting around by March 04....something "big" might be coming next March!

Fleet currently stands at 384, with 2 more deliveries scheduled for September. No deliveries in October. 2 deliveries in November and 2 more in December. With 2 more -200 retirments on tap for this year, the fleet will stand at 388 on January 1, 2004. For 2004, there are 42 deliveries scheduled however, the balance of the -200 fleet(25 +/-) will be retired next year. Fleet total by years end 2004 will be about 405 or a net gain of 17 aircraft.
 
aviatortj
Posts: 1694
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:15 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:49 am

Still hoping for MSP. But that will be a cold day in hell.

~TJ
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:56 am

>>>With 2 more -200 retirments on tap for this year, the fleet will stand at 388 on January 1, 2004. For 2004, there are 42 deliveries scheduled however, the balance of the -200 fleet(25 +/-) will be retired next year. Fleet total by years end 2004 will be about 405 or a net gain of 17 aircraft.

True, two more (N80SW and N81SW) are scheduled for retirement by the end of 2003, and this will take SWA from 25 to 23 -200s. However, not all 23 will be gone in 2004; only 18 will be. The last 6 are scheduled to be retired in Jan/Feb/Mar 2005 (2 each month).

For you shutterbugs out there, you've got 17.5 months left to get your pictures....  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:00 pm

Atrude, you seem to be impatient judging by ure posts. Smile/happy/getting dizzy Relax, us fellow STL'ers must remember that
A. WE WERE EXTREMELY spoiled with TW
B. We don't need the service we had right now
C. When things pick back up, and they will, I just don't know when, we will be the airport of choice for any airline looking to expand. Big thumbs up major bonus
D. STL will never get a cartel carrier back in here with a big op, so don't get your hopes up for US like people say we will.
E. These things don't come overnight, airlines plan things out, we don't its spur of the moment, "hey I'll go post this", it takes them awhile to think things out so they won't blow a bunch of cash.
So in the end, we'll prolly never get something like TW back. It's a reality that very few STL'ers have come to realize, but I'm one of the few. Best we can hope for is an AA mini-hub like we'll have, and a large LCC presence, with of course a limited all other major presence. BTW, DL is notorious for operating large A/C into small markets, it wouldn't surprise me, but it is a bit of a longshot.
But back to the topic, Relax, the dots will be connected just a matter of time.

[Edited 2003-09-19 05:02:31]
 
flyabr
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:07 pm

YES...oh please southwest....please start flying to MSP! i'm getting so tired of paying northwest's high fares. MSP really needs WN...
 
atrude777
Posts: 4417
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:07 pm

Lambertman- I admit I was VERY spoiled by TWA. I do realize that we will not get the service we had with 800 daily with TWA.

PS- would you happen to have AIM or yahoo messenger?? I would be interested in chatting this with you, my screen name is atrude777 for both yahoo and AIM.

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:16 pm

YES...oh please southwest....please start flying to MSP! i'm getting so tired of paying northwest's high fares. MSP really needs WN...

You have TZ up in MSP right now and we seem to have a minimal impact on NW but we are doing very well from what i've heard and seen.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
flyabr
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:22 pm

i could be wrong but i'm betting NW is fighting tooth and nail to keep WN out of MSP. airtrain...frontier and america west have provided some alternatives to NW...but we still need more low fare carries with additional routes to come in.
 
Paddy
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:03 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:31 pm

LambertMan said:

"BTW, DL is notorious for operating large A/C into small markets, it wouldn't surprise me, but it is a bit of a longshot."

****************************************************************************************
No doubt about that. Here at PDX(a medium-sized market at best) we get DL 763's to CVG, SLC and ATL. Even though their service is nothing to get excited about, I usually choose them when I fly to the east coast just to be on the roomier 767. Beats the hell out of the A320's, 738's and 752's!

It really surprises me that PDX gets better service than STL. STL seems like it would be a bigger market, but hey, I'm not complaining. And if NW starts the PDX - AA), Japan">NRT service they are currently contemplating we will be riding high on the hog! I agree though that STL is an ideal place to set up some big operations. It's a central location and the AA reductions should open up quite a bit of room. If I ever get my international LCC start-up going I'll make a hub at STL!!!!  Nuts
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:40 pm

Yeah, WMUPilot, your right. According to a TZ employee in IND, (or my uncle), MSP is one of the strongest markets TZ has.  Wow! Yeah, thats what I said, but anyways, NW will never allow WN in. It would completely destory what they stand for in MSP. HIGH FARES! hahah. Awhile back Sun Country tried to get a piece of the pie in MSP and be the premier LCC. Of course, they did not succeed. NW is very protective of MSP and will do anything to keep it a fortress hub WITHOUT WN.
 
SWAFA30
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:57 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:43 pm

True, two more (N80SW and N81SW) are scheduled for retirement by the end of 2003, and this will take SWA from 25 to 23 -200s. However, not all 23 will be gone in 2004; only 18 will be. The last 6 are scheduled to be retired in Jan/Feb/Mar 2005 (2 each month).

Looked everywhere for the current -200 fleet count and could not find it...thanks for the corrected numbers. Any idea when the first -700 with the winglets will make it's debut?

I will have to bid a -200 Texas Two-Step trip before they are all gone just for old times sake. We never see them in BWI anymore. I heard they were going to keep 3 jets in the "Classic" paint scheme to signify the 3 original cities DAL, HOU, and SAT? Any truth to this or will the entire fleet go Canyon Blue? I have yet to see a converted -500 are there/will there be any?
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:51 pm

Grapevine has it that first previously-delivered -700 with blended winglets will come out of the hanger in October. New Boeing deliveries with winglets start in October 2004.

Winglets just got FAA approval for retrofits on -300s, but don't believe they've been approved for -500s just yet. It may (or may not) be in the works with Aviation Partners.

Haven't heard anything about 3 -700s being kept in the original scheme, but LUV the idea.

Also hoping (no, make that dreaming) that they'll drill and sink a deep post (a -big- one) in front of the HDQ and permanently mount the -last- -200 on it for posterity.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SuperDash
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:52 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:39 pm

GEG-LAS? The part you missed was how they funded that. They dropped 2 SEA-GEG flights. Down to 4. I guess those terrible prop planes Horizon is flying (Q400s) is just, well, kicking some butt. They can't make a go of either GEG or BOI. Must be Horizon's free beer. Easy come easy go, but GEG is down another 137 seats starting in January. Thank goodness Alaska is adding GEG-LAX at the end of October.
 
geg2rap
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:02 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:18 am

Spokane had direct service to LAS via HPX/mesa but I looked at the schedule and they are no longer operating the flight until spring. Las Vegas Service is nice to have in GEG cause the connection oppurtunities are huge on WN. Got any other ideas on the new city for WN? I like COS hope they get at least 1 geg-COS daily out of it.
 
SunValley
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:51 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:33 am

Don't be surprised if the next WN city isn't CLT.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:50 am

WN I am sure is not interested in getting into a blood bath with NW in MSP. Tho they both operate in DTW and do it well, so who can tell. There are so many other markets that WN can and will go into that will not put them up against NW from day one.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:27 am

I doubt WN has any interest in CLT, they have RDU a little way away and seem to serve the Carolinas fine with RDU alone. The hot topic around here is FAT, but I don't know, I have no connections who work for WN. My guess would be possibly GRR. Seems to fit right into WN's gameplan city size wise, and kind of being a smaller airport. COS I think would be a possibility, but WN probably has something up their sleeves we are'nt expecting. Big thumbs up
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: WN Connects The Dots (again)

Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:49 am

Manchester (MHT)-St. Louis makes quite a bit of sense. Everyone handicapping MHT's next destination for Southwest is pointing to PHX (with LAS unleashed a couple weeks ago to tremendous loads & advanced bookings). On the short list behind PHX is more Florida service (read: MORE!), which may be a good bet with the peak Florida season coming into full swing.

MHT-STL is not a 'sexy' route by any means, but I've elevated it on my list of possible upcoming runs, mostly because it represents yet another way out west for travellers but really because AA is relinquishing STL.

Of possible consequence is the amount of overnight space we have at MHT. If I understand correctly, Southwest overnights seven jets at MHT...three at the gates and four on remote pads. STL would almost certainly be an overnighter (I think) with the outbound (MHT-STL) flight departing in the early morning and the inbound one coming in late at night (like the MHT-MCI flight does). I'm not sure what MHT's capacity is for even MORE overnighters, but it might be a factor.

Chris

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