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IflyORL
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MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:27 pm

Now that MCO is in the final stages of completing its fourth runway is it possible that somewhere down the line a present or future major air carrier will call MCO home. Possibly Pan Am making a comeback run and adding new services out of MCO rather than SFB. Or maybe a new airline popping up and taking the theme park capital of the world by storm. What do you think??
 
Guest

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:28 pm

Delta Air Lines tried it in the mid-1990s... it didn't work.
 
luv2fly
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:32 pm

I believe UA consider it one for a brief period as well.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
IFLYMCO
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:36 pm

All I can say is I hope this happens. I seem to remember the Delta hub, do you think it may have been becuase MCO is simply too close to ATL to be feasable? Thanks in advance for any comments!



Have a great day!  Smile
Now it should be "IFLYDCA"
 
atrude777
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:37 pm

MCO is way to far south, and its more of a destination airport. just an airport with tremendous amount of flights. the only airline that has connecting in MCO is WN between FLL and MCO and other florida airports, and Delta with COMAIR. I believe thats it.

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
ZID
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:41 pm

MCO is big time O/D. No need to waste airplanes and personnel on a hub schedule. Just get 'em in and out, point to point. The quicker the turn around time, the better. Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money. NEXT!
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
ckfred
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:49 pm

The only way that MCO could become a hub would be to a) offer enough flights from across a network into MCO, then offer connections throughout Florida, and maybe Georgia, Mississippi, and Alabama, and b) offer service to the Caribbean and Latin America.

In other words, someone has to enough guts to take on AA's hub at MIA. Considering the number of complaints that I've read here and on other websites about the conditions at MIA, MCO is an attractive alternative.

But, it's too far south to be an east-west hub, and it won't make money simply being a connecting point for Florida-bound traffic. And getting the route authority to fly to the Caribbean and Latin America will take years.
 
IFLYMCO
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:50 pm

"MCO is big time O/D. No need to waste airplanes and personnel on a hub schedule. Just get 'em in and out, point to point. The quicker the turn around time, the better. Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money. NEXT!"


In that case..anybody forsee any new or exotic airlines coming to MCO?


Have a good one!  Smile
Now it should be "IFLYDCA"
 
PVD757
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:57 pm

It seems that there aren't many airlines that DON'T go to MCO. Charters, heavies, mainline, RJs, International. MCO has nothing to worry about. As long as people want to go on vacation, MCO will be huge and continue to grow. Heck, I'll be there (car seats, strollers, and all) in two weeks! Spent a lot of time on the roof of the terminal in the early to mid 90's. Just a great airport.
 
flynavy
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:05 pm

I was born n' raised in Orlando and I remember seeing KLM 747's (even DC-10's) landing from AMS regularly back in the early to mid-1990's. The only airline that serves AMS from MCO right now (and I believe it's seasonal) is Martinair with a 763. Why did KLM pull out of MCO?

I also remember Saudi Arabian and El Al 747's from time to time. I believe the Saudi Arabiam flight was a continuation of the ATL service. Any chance we could see them again?
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
Guest

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:07 pm

Why did KLM pull out of MCO?

Low-yield, no $$$.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:15 pm

Orlando (MCO), like Las Vegas, NV (LAS), is primarily an origin and destination (O&D) airport primarily during the strong tourist trade in that city. Remember, Orlando is dominated by Disney World, plus other large resorts like Universal Studios Orlando and Sea World Orlando.

As such, you can forget about MCO ever being a hub airport.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:18 pm

In CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO's masterplan- it calls for a similar terminal structure to the current one on the south end and also a large international terminal should the need arise.

I have suggested in the past it would be great to see an airline start a hub for Latin/South America at CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO to compete with AA at MIA. I don't know who.

Perhaps UA if they got in better financial terms.
NW and CO are out since CO hubs at IAH and NW codeshares to Latin America on CO flights
Delta is pretty much out due to ATL being not far away- although is ATL and CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO that much closer than DTW and MSP?
 
flynavy
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:49 pm

Hlywd:

Or United's hubs at LAX and SFO, for that matter.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
Dazed767
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:36 pm

Saudi was Rydah(sp?)/Jeddah-JFK-MCO-JFK-back overseas.....no ATL in there. I had flown on it 2 times before 9/11.....and the loads....well lets just say I had the 747 to myself  Big grin . Maybe in a few years once everything settles down in the middle east we'll see them again?
 
Fly_ATA
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:34 pm

I can see WN and FL continue to get larger in MCO but I don't see any hub type operations there.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:34 pm

Didn't El Al used to fly to MCO too?
 
B4REAL
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:40 pm

It is a strong O&D as well as not well placed for a hub network (but Miami-AA does it okay I guess -for southbound flights). Especially in today's aviation world, a new hub is not in any of the top airlines plans.

There are closer hubs, however - DL's ATL-CVG, US's PIT-PHL, UA's SFO-LAX are all less than 400 miles and are all closer than ATL-MCO (404 miles) or other potential hub connections.

B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:18 pm

Well, if National could do a hub in Miami back in the '60's and '70's....
Great Lakes, great life.
 
BGIplanefreak
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:52 pm

I agree with you guys, MCO is definitely a major airport, it handles close to 30 million passengers a year, but I don't ever see it becoming a hub.....at least not in the near future. Orlando, not taking into account the theme park business, is a relatively small city. As was said earlier it's mainly O&D here.

I've lived in Orlando for 11 years, and was thinking the other day about all the international service we've lost since I've been here...it's quite sad. Routes to the UK, Canada and Puerto Rico seem to do great, there is always endless demand it seems, but other international routes start up and within a few years (if that long) the service ends.

Here's my list of int'l service we've lost since the early 90s...someone add to it if I've missed anything.
KLM, Aeroflot, City Bird, Lauda Air, EL AL, Saudi Arabian, Balair, Sobelair, Britannia & Monarch (moved to Sanford), Cayman Airways, Air Aruba, LACSA, Aero Costa Rica, Mexicana (only charters now), Aeropostal, Lan Chile, Aerolineas Argentinas, Varig, VASP, Transbrasil, Canadian, Canada 3000, Royal, United to MEX, American to GRU, Delta to ORY, FRA, MEX, FPO, STT, STX.
 
srbmod
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:55 pm

I think you will see AirTran grow @ MCO. With ATL pretty much close to being maxed out for the time being, you'll probably see more direct flights to MCO from other cities. With the coming of the 737NGs next year, I would not be surprised if the MX base being the main 737 MX base, with the new MX hangar opening @ ATL being the main 717 MX base. So I could definitely see MCO-LAS, MCO-LAX, MCO-SFO, MCO-DEN starting up within the next 18 months. Southwest could probably launch additional services as well, and would not be surprised if JetBlue made MCO a minihub once the Embraers come into the fleet.
 
bobnwa
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:02 am

Srbmod,

What connecting cities do you see Air Tran opening up to connect passengers to when they get off the flights from LAX,LAS,SFO, and DEN. An airline opens a hub to connect passengers not to fly them from point A to B.
 
ScottB
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:57 am

There are two primary difficulties with MCO being a hub:

(1) Business traffic to and from MCO is a relatively small percentage of overall traffic. While MCO does have a huge amount of O&D traffic for a city its size, the vast majority of it is tourists headed to the theme parks, and that's not terribly profitable.

(2) MCO has bad geography; it's really only suitable for connections to other points in Florida and (possibly) Latin America. While MIA is a dump, it's a far, far better hub for connections to Latin America and the Caribbean simply because so much of that traffic originates from the Miami area. Miami is an important business and cultural center for Latin America and the Caribbean, while Orlando simply is not. Unless you were offering far lower prices, few people would fly north for an hour, connect, and backtrack to get from Miami to South or Central America via Orlando.

The potential for growth at MCO is primarily in point-to-point traffic, which is what Southwest, Song, AirTran, and Delta Connection have been targeting there.
 
GroundStop
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:48 am

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:02 am

bobnwa,

Srbmod said nothing about MCO being a hub for AirTran. He said he thinks we will initiate new service, particularly out west. The purpose of these flights won't be to connect passengers. Currently, AirTran is successful on nonstop flights from MCO to DAY, FNT, PIT, ROC, MKE, PHF, and others without any connecting traffic. Not to mention we are starting service to DFW and MSP and we connect pax to MCO through BWI, PHL, and 10+ flights a day to ATL. Say it with me..."O and D".

JP
 
Jetmarc
Posts: 497
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:15 am

jetBlue will be expanding from MCO - we've just broken ground there with new MX and training facilities. MCO is where our DirectTV is located - all aircraft are fitted with TVs and satellites here. We're also building a new training center here which will house our new cabin and flight simulators, house flight attendant, pilot, and TechOps/MX training, and allow expansion when we begin receiving our EMB190s. A new terminal is being considered as well. Orlando is great interms of cost of living and most likely will become a crew base and hub...
"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:13 am

**Here's my list of int'l service we've lost since the early 90s...someone add to it if I've missed anything.
KLM, Aeroflot, City Bird, Lauda Air, EL AL, Saudi Arabian, Balair, Sobelair, Britannia & Monarch (moved to Sanford), Cayman Airways, Air Aruba, LACSA, Aero Costa Rica, Mexicana (only charters now), Aeropostal, Lan Chile, Aerolineas Argentinas, Varig, VASP, Transbrasil, Canadian, Canada 3000, Royal, United to MEX, American to GRU, Delta to ORY, FRA, MEX, FPO, STT, STX.**

What planes were used for those flights?
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:24 am

Groundstop,
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the title of the message was "MCO A Major Hub"
Say with me. MCO is not a hub for any carrier regardless of how many flights they have
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:24 am

Well FL has a so-called mini-hub there of course and FL should reach major carrier status by next year Smile I heard FL is also supposed to start flying an Ryan International operated A320 flight out of there. I guess it is going to SFO or another cross-country flight with a stop in ATL but I might be wrong with that guessing.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
FutureFO
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:33 am

TransBrasil used to fly to GRU and GIG out MCO by way of MIA ( B762 service). LY and SV used to fly out of here. SV actually used to have about 4 744's on the ground at any given time. I think the closest hub airline we have is WN and FL. I would however like to see a more open hub system for DL tho. Maybe even some S.A. flights and maybe some Trans-Oceanic flites.


Sean from MCO
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
BGIplanefreak
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:51 pm

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:37 am

For a very short time Transbrasil also flew nonstop to Brasilia (not daily though, only a couple times per week) with a 762.
 
flynavy
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:45 am

El Al did fly to Orlando, even as recently as 1999.

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thomacf
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:46 am

Didn't ANA operate weekly service to NRT? I remember seeing their name in a brochure. If they did what aircraft did they fly in?
 
flynavy
Posts: 2179
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:55 am

Thomacf:

I believe that service was a codeshare, but I do have a doubt. I remember ANA having their own seperate ticket counters (where FL's are now located) back in the mid-1990's. I personally have never seen any ANA aircraft at Orlando, ever.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
BGIplanefreak
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:51 pm

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:54 am

ANA never actually flew into MCO, it was a codeshare on US Air via Dulles.
 
Dazed767
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:08 am

I think in 2000 it started with El Al being operated by North American to JFK.

The ORIGINAL AirTran's hub was MCO.

I think before 9/11 I saw in the paper that MCO was thinking about building an "International" terminal, I think within the next 6 years or so? I still don't know why we need a 4th runway....I guess a plane every 10 minutes is too much for them to handle on runway 17  Big grin
 
peachair
Posts: 218
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:01 am

Believe it or not, Aeroflot used to have scheduled service (IL-62) SVO-MCO-MIA and return. Sometimes they had to stop in CYQR or EINN for fuel. I can remember walking out to the ramp to watch it take off. It used quite a lot of runway in the summer and the engines were very loud, and it did not climb very fast. I remember the flight crew required us to hose down the main gear with water after it landed - I couldn't understand why - MCO has plenty of runway and usually the flight was pretty light inbound.
Other MCO visitors we used to see in the early to mid 1990's were:

- TEA (France) Airbus A310
- Varig DC-10
- KLM DC-10, B743
- Virgin 767 (yes 767)
- LTU L-1011 and B767
- LanChile 767
- LACSA 737-200, 727
- Trans Brasil 767-200, 300
- Leisure Air DC-10
- Aero Cancun A310
- Balair A310
- TAESA 727, 757

Also, United DID have a hub in MCO and did terrible. I think at one time they had about 40 flights a day. Delta was going to make MCO a "Latin America" hub. They even had in the schedule B757 service MCO-CCS, MCO-GUA, MCO-SJO. At one time Delta flew B757 MCO-STT/STX. Although the flights were completely full, the poor yields produced a loss and they got out.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:25 am

**Didn't ANA operate weekly service to NRT? I remember seeing their name in a brochure. If they did what aircraft did they fly in?**

If you go to the Orlando Airport main website and look at airlines, it still shows ANA.

LTU still serves here once a week on an A330-200
 
Dazed767
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RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 8:41 am

Don't foget about Laker,Caledonian, and Novair with the DC10s.

Justin
 
drewwright
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 3:51 am

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:07 am

Getting back to that whole O&D thing. Everyone seems to have hit it on the nail. Most of our Delta Connection flights have 30% or less connecting traffic. Delta does seem to feed some traffic through Orlando though. Several times I have seen people connecting from New Orleans or PNS to New York or Boston, when they could have just as easily connected through Atlanta. The wierd part of the whole thing is that most people are connecting from Delta Connection or mainline flights to SONG flights. I thought Delta was operating the airlines seperately?

DRW
 
JohnJ
Posts: 1383
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: MCO A Major Hub?

Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:23 am

A couple of years ago I needed to get to Dallas for a business meeting, flying out of my home airport of Hartford. Interestingly, the lowest fare I could find involved flying on a Delta Express 737-200 from BDL-MCO, where I changed planes to a Delta 767-300 for the MCO-DFW portion of the trip. It worked out beautifully, except for a thunderstorm delay on the trip home. I remember one of the F/As on the 737 on the way down being amazed that I was using MCO as a connection point.

The only noteworthy event on the trip was that I was given a bit of a hassle by a Delta employee at MCO for using my scanner in the airport during the thunderstorm delay (this was pre-9/11). This was during the Comair strike, and I wonder if he thought I was a union spy or something. After I explained that I was an aviation hobbiest he seemed satisfied and left me alone. No matter - I was the best informed passenger in the airport that day as to when my flight would be departing by virtue of the scanner.

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