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langfordkyle
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:20 pm

STL Future?

Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:55 pm

Sorry if this may irrate some readers about this re-occurring topic, but anyway I was reading this article that seemed rather interesting about the airport managers hopes for STL in the future. It seems they are all talking to the wrong airlines, the ones they are talking to (with the exception of Jetblue & Alaska Airlines) already have hubs close to STL. I think Jetblue would be the best bet, but I doubt it. ( I just realized if jetblue were to come to STL we would have TWA 2.0) What are your thoughts? If you choose to read the article click on http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2003/08/25/story1.html
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: STL Future?

Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:47 pm

I like Griggs optimism and wish him success; crying in your beer never does any good. I doubt if he'll get a new hub as long as AMR's operation stays as large as they plan at >200 flights a day, but for certain he'll see some increases.
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:09 am

RE: STL Future?

Sun Sep 28, 2003 8:16 pm

I dont really know that I would call Jet Blue, TWA 2.0.

My reasons, Jet Blue cost structure is much lower. They fly fewer aircraft types. They offer something trully different with onboard TV. They dont have to deal with the seasonallity of trans - Atlantic flights. They offer one class of service and dont need to staff and cater for an upper class. They have lots of start up capital and most importantly, they are making money.

Id be happy to have a major jet blue operation at my airport.
 
Okie
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: STL Future?

Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:49 pm

The catch here seems to be whether AA is going to release the gates on "D" concourse. So far AA has only indicated that they might release the gates and otherwise will have to pay for them until 2005.
Hopefully for Lambert, in AA's financial position it will let those gates go instead of holding on to them.
Otherwise this may in the long run (2-4years) may be a boon for Lambert by spreading the risk over more airlines. Increasing the competition on pricing for O & D traffic. It definitely seems that Lambert is not taking this laying down and are out there banging on doors. Kudos
XXX
Airtran bringing the 717 back to STL now that sounds more like TWA 2.0
XXX
Ifs and Buts, Candies and Nuts, If it all comes through it will be a Merry Christmas.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:32 am

IMHO - I see STL and AA being downsized even more as time goes by, soon it will become another BNA, and RDU. Then you will see other airlines start to come in. AA Would be smart to release the gates instead of paying for them, tho whoever said an airline was smart.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
langfordkyle
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:20 pm

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:52 am

Actually when I mentioned TWA 2.0 I was talking about the hubs TWA once had (JFK & STL)
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:35 am

Jet Blue would be great for STL. From what I've heard, AA will be consolodating all of their operations to one concourse. The airport authority has already taken back many of the unused slots that AA had.

On a side note, I'm not a fan of Griggs. This airport is rampant with corruption. The new runway expansion has become a 15 year debacle. Between the court battles, and the admission that they will not be able to complete the runway as projected. Now they are saying they don't have enough money to move the ANG base that is just west of the terminal. This would be about 100 feet from the threshold of the new runway, way too close to even use the approach safely. On top of this, they say they must raise fees again to make up for lost revenue for AA's reduction. This will be the second fee hike in less than 6 months.

I feel that STL has a great location and could really be a major hub again. But as long as Griggs is in charge it won't be.
DMI
 
atrude777
Posts: 4422
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:10 am

This article has already been posted. AirTran will not be coming to STL for awhile because it is expanding alot at DFW. so all FL will be focusing on is DFW.
B6 will most definetly come when they get the new plane,s but we may see one daily STL-JFK with the A320 because the only other airline to fly that route is COMAIR. STL will never become a hub like TWA had with STL. we may have alot of flights, but the best we can get is a focus city, which seems unlikely I don't know.

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Air1727
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:57 am

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:28 am

Pilotpip, it is very easy to tear down Griggs, but if you were ever apart of an airport administration, you would change your tone. Airports are 100% extremely political, and no runway expansion program in a metropolitan area such as where Lambert is located is an easy task. There have been countless years of bantering and ignorant ideas, but in the end, the city will not relinquish control of the airport to the county and with that being said, Griggs and all directors before him, have to deal with what they have. Which means years of court battles, property red tape, delays, federal aid, bonds, commission battles, and the list goes on and on and on. That W1W program was the best they could do with the extremely limited ability they had; so with that being said, Griggs has done his best.

As for American relinquishing control of gates, the port authority has the rights to move American to fulfill operational efficiency and airport marketing demand. American will be reduced to 18 gates.
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:40 am

Ugh, Atrude, assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Nobody ever said they'd not be coming here for a long time. I said they wouldnt build it up, but as far as I know they still have plans to enter the market, just not with the focus city everyone was hoping for. But Atrude, you guys seem to forget we are STILL a hub. Yes, a small one, but it's a hub and we should be thankful for it in these market conditions. When things pick back up, and AA adds capacity back and DFW and ORD are maxed out, where will they go? You guessed it, STL. Granted we will be down for awhile, but we're certainly not out.
Griggs is a good man due to contrary belief. He is by no way taking this laying down, he'll have us in good shape in 5 years. Basically a RDU or PDX on a slightly larger scale. Sometimes it makes me wish we never even had TWBig thumbs up
Oh and on a brighter note, STL-JFK is doing very very well as opposed to its counterpart BNA (announced at the same time), I don't know if they'd just upgrade it to a CR7 or what but I expect one will be coming.

[Edited 2003-09-29 02:45:04]
 
atrude777
Posts: 4422
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:07 am

Lambertman- I am sorry, I just assumed, but I guess I shouldn't!!! Thats very great to hear that COMAIR is doing good on the STL-JFK route. I thought it was already a CRJ-700 when they started, i expect ti to go mainline soon. If B6 sees how good that route is doing maybe they may enter. BY the way not that I doubt your iformation but how did you know the STL-JFKL route is doing good?

lex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:13 am

Well, basically just the fact that DL has a seat selection map on its website and most of the time the fare is around 400 dollars and sold out.....So just general deduction. I havent been back to Lambert for about a month now, I seriously need to go and talk to my man. Big thumbs up
 
atrude777
Posts: 4422
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:18 am

Ohh Lambertman- VERY SMART THINKING..::sitting here feeling very stupid wondering why the hell I didn't think of that.....:: anyways Big grin!!!

Can you IM me at atrude777 on AIM please?? I am very interested in talking to you, and I promise I am open-,minde don IAM and much nicer to talk to on IAM then on a.net

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Air1727
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:57 am

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:19 pm

The best thing that ever happened to STL was Trans World and Ozark. Without it, it would of been another Kansas City with a bleeding heart o&d race and nothing more of stature. American will never bring back to Saint Louis what it had. Increased competition will be the best thing that becomes of this situation, and if all parties do their part, hopefully it will be the standard. Relying on American's future operational planning at Lambert is like betting on Chicago's Mayor Daley rebuilding Meigs Field...hopeless.  Big grin

[Edited 2003-09-29 05:21:22]
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:36 pm

We have all this speculation and crap....yes, I admit, its a load of fun, but soon the market will show what it is truly made of and if it deserves all of these flights we've been calling for. Time will tell, Time will tell........and I can't wait. Big thumbs up
 
FLIBOYZ
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: STL Future?

Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:33 pm

I think AA will definately close STL as a hub all together. Shut it down by the ending of the year or by January. Lots of hype about that in STL these days. From sources that work with AA.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: STL Future?

Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:43 am

Unless things have drastically changed, they don't have plans to shut it down anytime soon. Then you can be assured someone would take a big chunk of the STL market share, just don't know who. Do you really think AA wants FL, F9, or B6 to come in here cannibalize midwestern yields for them? Ahh....no. I even think that if AA left completely, if US keeps getting healthier they'd drop PIT in favor of STL. Just doesn't seem like a completely logical business move if it were to happen.

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