In the winter schedule, Frontier is starting daily red-eye service to their four Florida cities (Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Tampa and Orlando) as well as Baltimore/Washington.
All the flights leave Denver just before midnight, and arrive early a.m.
A couple of thoughts: I guess they won't have gate space problems for these flights at DIA.
Obviously, they think there is the demand, but I'm slightly surprised that Fort Myers, for example, is daily.
It'll sure boost the aircraft utilization rates.
Given this ramp-up, I'm puzzled that there is no red eye to New York/La Guardia. Are there slot issues there?
cheers
mariner
Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Mariner - my guess it is because of slot restrictions. Transcon red-eyes only go to EWR and JFK, and UA's last flight from Denver is at 6:20.
Oh how I long for the day when the skies were truly Friendly!
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- scottysair
- Posts: 6441
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RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Can you please send me with their link? I need exactly what flight # was flew out of DEN-FLL, please? I still thinking about of those flight is doing well with nonstop out of FLL. Talk ya later!
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
there is a curfew at LGA, not sure what time it expires in the morning though.
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Anders/CALMSP:
Slot restrictions and/or curfew would be guess, too. But it may be something to do with beyond perimeter.
Frontier flights are exempt, grandfathered, from the perimeter rule at LGA. This may also apply to UAL.
I've no idea if that means the slots they had, or if they can get new slots.
Scotty:
The best way to do that is to go to the Frontier website. Under "travel" there is a subheading "timetable" which is a .pdf document. I don't know how to link to a .pdf, sorry.
cheers
mariner
Slot restrictions and/or curfew would be guess, too. But it may be something to do with beyond perimeter.
Frontier flights are exempt, grandfathered, from the perimeter rule at LGA. This may also apply to UAL.
I've no idea if that means the slots they had, or if they can get new slots.
Scotty:
The best way to do that is to go to the Frontier website. Under "travel" there is a subheading "timetable" which is a .pdf document. I don't know how to link to a .pdf, sorry.
cheers
mariner
aeternum nauta
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Frontier flights are exempt, grandfathered, from the perimeter rule at LGA. This may also apply to UAL.
I have asked many times: What is the perimeter rule at LGA? The is the purpose of it? If UA is exempt, why don't they fly from the west coast to LGA?? Can some PLEASE answer??
I have asked many times: What is the perimeter rule at LGA? The is the purpose of it? If UA is exempt, why don't they fly from the west coast to LGA?? Can some PLEASE answer??
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Interesting indeed. As you mentioned, Mariner, I am surprised as well with a daily Fort Myers from Denver. . .should be interesting to see if this one stays around. Now, ATA from MDW to Ft. Myers. . .always booked. . .so we'll see.
Cheers
Cheers
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Benjamin --
The perimeter rule at LGA means that airlines cannot offer non-stop flights to points beyond a certain distance. I am much more familiar with the perimeter rule at DCA, which is quite similar.
At DCA, the general rule is that airlines cannot fly to any points beyond 1,250 miles. Originally, the limit was to be 1,000 miles, but some influential Texas congressmen got it changed to 1,250 so DFW and IAH would be included. The purpose of these restrictions was to reduce traffic and keep widebodies out. Recently, however, some exceptions were awarded to Frontier, America West, and other airlines to fly to places like LAS, LAX and SEA.
I am not sure exactly how the perimeter rule at LGA works, but I've heard it is very much the same. I think exceptions have been granted, but I'm not sure how many. I don't know what the guy who mentioned "grandfathering" is talking about, to my knowledge it doesn't exist. If it did, I think there would be many more west coast flights to LGA, as you mentioned.
The perimeter rule at LGA means that airlines cannot offer non-stop flights to points beyond a certain distance. I am much more familiar with the perimeter rule at DCA, which is quite similar.
At DCA, the general rule is that airlines cannot fly to any points beyond 1,250 miles. Originally, the limit was to be 1,000 miles, but some influential Texas congressmen got it changed to 1,250 so DFW and IAH would be included. The purpose of these restrictions was to reduce traffic and keep widebodies out. Recently, however, some exceptions were awarded to Frontier, America West, and other airlines to fly to places like LAS, LAX and SEA.
I am not sure exactly how the perimeter rule at LGA works, but I've heard it is very much the same. I think exceptions have been granted, but I'm not sure how many. I don't know what the guy who mentioned "grandfathering" is talking about, to my knowledge it doesn't exist. If it did, I think there would be many more west coast flights to LGA, as you mentioned.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
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- SHUPirate1
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RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
The perimeter at LGA is 1500 miles...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Frontier's flights to Denver from LGA are exempt from the perimeter rule, because they were already in existence at the time that particular perimeter was decided.
Thus they are "grandfathered" in. If you're not familiar with the term, I suggest a Google search.
I believe, but I'm not sure, that UAL has a similar exemption, but it's only on flights to Denver.
Thus, there can't be coast to coast transcons out of LGA.
The intention was to stop LGA (or DCA) from becoming a competitor to the bigger airports - JFK/EWR in NY and IAD in Washington.
LGA and DCA were to be "regional" and the others were to be the big boys. It's not unlike Dallas Love Field versus DFW.
There were also considerations of noise and overcrowding.
cheers
mariner
Thus they are "grandfathered" in. If you're not familiar with the term, I suggest a Google search.
I believe, but I'm not sure, that UAL has a similar exemption, but it's only on flights to Denver.
Thus, there can't be coast to coast transcons out of LGA.
The intention was to stop LGA (or DCA) from becoming a competitor to the bigger airports - JFK/EWR in NY and IAD in Washington.
LGA and DCA were to be "regional" and the others were to be the big boys. It's not unlike Dallas Love Field versus DFW.
There were also considerations of noise and overcrowding.
cheers
mariner
aeternum nauta
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
I believe DEN is grandfathered or simply put, included inside the perimeter. It is not airline specific. LGA has no beyond perimeter rule on Saturdays.
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
ATA will fly LGA-SFO on Saturdays starting on January 24th, 2004
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- copaair737
- Posts: 3571
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RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Denver is indeed inside the LGA perimeter. There is service on F9 and UA, however, it is at the edge of the barrier. SFO-LGA on TZ, starting in January, and the US Airways LGA-LAS service are exempt from the rule because the rule is not in effect on saturdays.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
These make senses, you get more aircraft use, as if they sit on the ground you make NO money. Also most likely will the crews fly the plane back to DIA, if so the crews are happy they get to go home. F9 could offer some special fares or bonus to take these flights. As a shareholder I am happy to see this.
You can cut the irony with a knife
RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
Copaair:
Sorry, but Denver is outside the perimeter - which is 1000 miles. DEN to LGA is 1600 miles.
Don't take my word for it, or even Frontier's - let's go to a third party, America West:
http://beta.americawest.com/aboutawa/companyprofile/aa_cmh_qa.htm#7
It's about half way down, but there's a link at the top: "Why is AWA leaving Fort Myers and La Guardia."
cheers
mariner
Sorry, but Denver is outside the perimeter - which is 1000 miles. DEN to LGA is 1600 miles.
Don't take my word for it, or even Frontier's - let's go to a third party, America West:
http://beta.americawest.com/aboutawa/companyprofile/aa_cmh_qa.htm#7
It's about half way down, but there's a link at the top: "Why is AWA leaving Fort Myers and La Guardia."
cheers
mariner
aeternum nauta
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- SHUPirate1
- Posts: 3428
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RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
That's a typo...it should have been 1500 miles...you can't tell me LGA-DFW and LGA-IAH is less than 1000 miles...heck, some of the South Florida routes re more than 1000 miles...BTW, with respect to O&D traffic, I found it interesting that I found on the DOT's website that LGA has the 7th-most O&D traffic in the United States, more than both EWR and JFK...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
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- VectorVictor
- Posts: 384
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RE: Frontier's Red-eyes
For those with an interest in history...
American flew nonstop El Paso - LGA in the late 60s early 70s w/727. The return to ELP was 1-stop, not nonstop. 1900 miles
Braniff, for a short time in 1978-1979, operated roundtrip nonstop service between LGA - San Antonio. 1586 miles
American flew nonstop El Paso - LGA in the late 60s early 70s w/727. The return to ELP was 1-stop, not nonstop. 1900 miles
Braniff, for a short time in 1978-1979, operated roundtrip nonstop service between LGA - San Antonio. 1586 miles
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