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AR385
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:19 pm

Since I have seen many threads about what people think of different airliners, I'm interested to know how you see the 747 SP. Whether you flew on it or just spotted it, do you like it? do you hate it?
 
VRG772
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:45 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:33 pm

I think 747SP is one of the ugliest aircrafts I've ever seen, but I can't tell you what I thought about its performance 'cause I've never flown on it.

But I wonder: why was the 747SP built? For what reason it was created? Since it doesn't has a big number of seats, why does it has an upper deck? Wasn't it easier to make a longer aircraft without an upper deck?
Do you know it?

Julio.

[Edited 2003-10-16 07:34:26]
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:43 pm

The 747SP is definitely one of the ugliest planes ever built. It looks like a deformed(midget) 747. Whoever thought up that plane must have been smokin somthing!
 
GroundStop
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:48 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:49 pm

"why was the 747SP built? For what reason it was created?"

Do you think there have always been 747-400's and 777's? At the time, it was the only aircraft able to connect certain markets that were once thought unreachable. The only aircraft in the world that was able to fly from New York to Asia...nonstop. It gave Boeing a vast competitive edge and was revlutionary in the development of future long-range products.

JP
 
cfalk
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:56 pm

When it was built, the SP had fantastic range - close to that of a 747-400 today, using 1960's engines and technology (the -400 at least is updated to 80's). It was essentially built for transpacific and kangaroo routes. It achieved the long range by shedding some weight, and using that enourmous wing, could fly higher and faster than most other planes can reach (above 45,000 feet).

In fact, the SP was on the ragged edge, where almost any deviation of speed (only a few miles per hour) could cause either a stall or shock waves (over the wing, I believe). There was also the problem of keeping the fuel from freezing at that high altitude - one of the flight engineers' jobs.

Charles
 
planemad
Posts: 510
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:35 pm

RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:50 pm

The 747SP looks like if you hold a 747-400 and squash it from nose to tail.

Never flown on 1 before though

Sam
 
Skymonster
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:22 pm

The 747SP is the best looking 747 ever built...

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Andy
 
Springbokheavy
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:48 pm

The 747SP is one of the greatest looking planes ever to fly!!! As in the plugs above they look good in any angle and look great in all liveries. It is just a stubby version of the 747 but with the same wingspan as the normal 747 it was great for long distances.
 
lehpron
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:49 pm

OMG those pictures of the 747SP are so disgusting. Especially in old UAL livery.

 
LGW
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:56 pm

The 747SP is most definatly one of the best looking airliners ever, so different and great to look at.

Great selection of SP shots there Andy

Ben Pritchard
 
eham
Posts: 402
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:07 pm

see the Iranair 747SP regularly at Amsterdam, always nice to see this bird because it is rarely seen nowadays and especially at AMS !!!
 
suspen
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:16 pm

Since it doesn't has a big number of seats, why does it has an upper deck? Wasn't it easier to make a longer aircraft without an upper deck?
Do you know it?


It has an upper deck because it's a 747.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
It's generally "easier" for a manufacturer to make a derivative of an existing type than to design an airliner from scratch.
 
Leskova
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:22 pm

I flew on SPs on Qantas and SAA - and as a passenger I liked'em every time... although the looks of this bird were quite, how do I put this, odd...  Big grin
 
JGPH1A
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:24 pm

I love the SP, its a beautiful aircraft and was streets ahead of the 747 Classic in its day - very comfortable, very smooth and very fast.
 
Guest

RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:53 pm

I love the 747SP! I'm planning to fly either Iran Air or Syrian within next year.
Only 46 747SPs were built. It was the ultimate airliner apart from the Concorde
during the seventies and most of the eighties.

Anders
 
Motorhussy
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:03 pm

For many years, the 747SP was the only international airliner that flew into my home town.

It was a QF lady flying into New Zealand's capital city, Wellington. NZ had retired its DC-8's and was awaiting the 767-200's.

The only craft that could land on our extremely short and wind buffeted runway was the SP. Short and stubby, but brave and beautiful.

And the interior was as comfy as that of its bigger brethren.

I've also flown on SP's of United, TWA and Pan-Am.

They landed on a dime, took off on a quarter and took you further than a pre-war dollar.
 
CX881
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:20 pm

I think it is pretty ugly!
 
luv2fly
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:51 pm

It always made my day when I was able to spot one. Just the fact that so few were produced and just a handful are still flying. What a beauty, with the stubby body and LARGE tail, I guess it is kinda like the A318, you either love it or hate it.
 
na
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:12 pm

Some hate it because its so short, some love it because its like a giant´s baby.
I think its a stunning, cute-looking airplane with awesome performance. And for me the SP looks ways better than the modern-day overstretched airliners like B777-300 or 757-300 for example.
 
AR385
Topic Author
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:46 pm

I flew on them many times out of MEX. Never did we go lower than 41,000 ft. and we would usually hit 990 km/hr or more (according to the airshow) I recall the TO performance being akin to the DC-10. Considering the hot and high conditions there, this was an achievement. It was very comfortable. and JGPH1A is right, it was way ahead of its other 747 brothers. Even today, I´m sure there are areas where it´s still ahead of the 400.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:59 pm

Can anyone picture in their mind's eye a -SP fuselage & tail today with -400 wings & engines? I've often thought about this.  Wink/being sarcastic It'll probably be the ultra very long range aircraft...easily half-way around the world non-stop. Regards.
 
motech722
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:10 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:14 am

There are certainly a lot of people in here that like and dislike the looks of the B747SP. I for one like it, it is a unique design that definitely served a purpose back in the day and continues to today, otherwise no one would be flying them.


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I have friends that say they think the 747SP is an "ugly" plane, but then like the B737-600. To me the tail on the -600 looks out of proportion to the rest of the plane, seems too high, but it also has its own look, which intrigues me.


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I also have friends that think that the 747SP is a great design, but then think that the A318 is "ugly" because the plane seems to be out of proportion.


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Perhaps we think these planes that have been shortened look so odd and sometimes "ugly" because we are use to seeing their larger brothers. I can't recall anyone saying that the B747-400 looks "ugly", but free your minds and think about this, what if the SP was the norm, and the -400 was the unique design, would you still feel the same? Would the -400 not look "ugly" then after seeing so many SPs flying around.

Think about it.

 
B777FA
Posts: 235
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:16 am

The 747SP was the best plane that I have ever worked. American used to staff the aircraft with 15 F/As which was great.

2 F/As on the upper deck (non smoking first class)
3 F/As on the lower deck first class cabin
5 F/As for business class
5 F/As for coach

With this staffing the galley F/As in coach and business could stay working in the galley and not galley/aisle.When the 747SPs (N601 and N602) came to JFK from DFW we flew them on the JFK-BRU and JFK-LHR routes.The layovers were 24-48 hours so we got to see a lot of these places and the crews were a lot of fun as we were all around the 3-4 year seniority mark and we all knew each other.Flying the SP has definatly been one of the high points of my career so far .
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:19 am

That plane is a Dwarf 747, I really don´t like it and I don´t think it gave Boeing a vast competitive edge or was revolutionary in the development of future long-range products.
 
Querosene
Posts: 83
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:22 am

"I flew on them many times out of MEX"

Who flew SP´s to MEX?
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:50 am

Re: Can anyone picture in their mind's eye a -SP fuselage & tail today with -400 wings & engines? I've often thought about this. It'll probably be the ultra very long range aircraft...easily half-way around the world non-stop

That thing would go for EVER !
 
Guest

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:00 am

Right, the 747SP looks a little strange - but I love that plane. Also different other planes that look a little too short (some 737's, 319, DC9-10 etc).
But I also think the airlines don't buy planes to win a beauty-contest. Also when I see the pic-collection from Skymonster: it depends on the colour-scheme...

Didn't Boeing produce the SP on a special request from SAA who had problems to fly from south-africa via other african countries? So they needed planes for special long distances, or not?
 
olli
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:01 am




Aerolineas Argentinas used to fly some years ago the SP to MEX.

Regards
 
Benjamin
Posts: 422
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:10 am

That plane is a Dwarf 747, I really don´t like it and I don´t think it gave Boeing a vast competitive edge or was revolutionary in the development of future long-range products.

What are you talking about?? As stated here many times the plane flew higher and faster than any plane of it's time (except Concorde of course). MOST importantly, it had, by FAR the longest range. It was the ONLY plane that could fly non-stop East Coast US to Asia. You may not like it, but you can't say it wasn't revolutionary!  Smile
 
luv2fly
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:17 am

No I believe the plane was developed for PanAm who wanted to fly from JFK to NRT non-stop. If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me.
 
Paul777
Posts: 93
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:30 am

Form follows function! Functionality wise it worked! Long distances, smaller capacities, and fast! Probably the precursor to the twins of today! I flew on both, Pan Am and TWA examples and they were fun to be aboard!
 
Guest

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:10 am

Ugly or good looking aircraft - rather a childish way to judge an airplane...
The 747SP served its purpose with its capacity and range...
There were some 40 SPs built...
The later 747-200s and 300s had equal (or even better range) than SPs...
xxx
If you think an airline selects an aircraft for its look, come on, friends...
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
a340pilot
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:22 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:18 am

I think that the 747-SP reminds me of the aircraft on that new airline site:
modified airlines!  Big grin


http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000308

Best regards,
a340pilot
 
BN747
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:55 am

Those guys who 'hate' the 747SP or think that it was 'ugly'...I bet are individuals who were born in the 70's or weren't even concieved at the time the 747SP debuted. It's a lot like the the DC-3s to DC-7 and stratocruisers ...I think they are all ugly. BUT I have a profund appreaciation for what they were and what they did in their heyday. These aircraft blazed the trail for us to get to the 707, 727, 737, 747 (including 747SP) and the entire Airbus line. So every time I see a DC-3 (I see 'em at LGB quite often....I shoot the hell out it although I think it's ugly..because it lit the fuse for commercial aviation! It gave us what we all chase after today! I may not like it, but would I fly on it..you bet your ass I would! So for you 747SP haters, try looking at the aircraft for it's contribution to aviation, this aircraft gave us the 747-300,-400 and if you think those are ugly too....there's no hope, you'll never 'get it'.


BN747
 
a340pilot
Posts: 554
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:00 am

We are talking about aircraft TODAY!! Not in the 1900's! and we are taking about the looks of the 747sp not the aircraft used in the "pioneer of aviation"
 
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F-WWKH
Posts: 335
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:00 am

The B747SP is ugly? This must be the comments of new generation aviation enthusiasts who obviously never had the chance to see one fly!!! It is one of the most gracious aircrafts around, and a comparison between B747SP and a B777 isnt even allowed with the latter being probably THE most unattractive widebody aircraft around. Two oversized engines, a far too small tail and for the -300 a very long pipe in between. Good looking? Think again and I even give you a hint: have a look at the pics of the B747SP posted above!!! Sincere thanks to those nice Sheikh/Sultans/etc buddies who keep that beauty flying!
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:33 am

A340pilot....you're missing the context of my post..and Duh! Both aircraft..the DC-3 and the 747SP were built in the 1900s! Jeez!..Like I said...some people just 'aren't' going to 'get it!'

BN747
 
Guest

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:37 am

did UA ever put the SP in the new stealth livery or did it go away while still wearing white?
 
dagrant
Posts: 7
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:03 am

Boeing decided to shorten the 747 when they were threatened with losing customers (especially Pan Am) to McDonnell-Douglas and Lockheed. Their idea was to provide an aircraft with a seating capacity about the same as a DC-10 or L-1011. Boeing market-eers convinced engineering to build the SP since market surveys concluded that a.) Passengers overwhelmingly preferred to ride on 747s, and B.) that Pax prefer 4 engines. A big selling point was the SP's commonality with the regular 747, thus eliminating the need for acquiring an entire inventory of spares, GSE, and tooling for the competitor's product. Pan Am began to use the thing for flights going half-way around the world only after they were conned into buying a bunch of the things. They quickly discovered that the money wasted by carrying around an extra running engine on shorter flights would buy a lot of spares, GSE, and tooling for a fleet of the competitor's product. I love the stupid airplane and consider it one of those odd-balls running around like the CV-990 or B-720.
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:04 am

Quite a few wore 'stealth'...I'm sure pics are on A.net.

BN747
 
SAA201
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 2:37 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:26 am

Just a side note, SAA will have its last scheduled B747SP service at the end of this month. From Nov 2003 the Bangkok route will be axed from the airline's network. It will only be a few weeks at the most before the last 2 SP's in the fleet will be cut up for scrap.  Crying  Crying  Crying
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:21 am

Lemme see....my saying ' ...some people just 'aren't' going to 'get it!'....entitles you to, in return, fly off the handle and call me a Moron? If you that makes you feel better..have at it. Just hope you don't fly too many A340's with that kinda logic.

BN747
 
OB1783P
Posts: 310
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:22 am

I flew on a TWA SP from IAD to SFO in the early 80s. I guess it was subbing for a 1011, since transcon didn't take advantage of the long-range capability. I believe I have read somewhere that TWA had bought the SP for some non-stop West coast to Israel routes that never materialized. I may be wrong though.

Right now there is an SP in the cargo area of my home airport, MDT (Harrisburg) not going anywhere, with odd markings such as "Ambassadors for Peace" or something. I couldn't get close enough to read the registration.

There is a nice website about the SP:
http://www.747sp.com/
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:24 am

Cancel the previous...I just saw that you're a trucker..not an A340 pilot...Now I can see that 'The name calling fits'...

BN747
 
a340pilot
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:22 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:26 am

BN747: Alright I was out of line to call you that and i appoligize , but what in the heck do you mean Just hope you don't fly too many A340's with that kind logic
That doesn't make any sense!


 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:32 am

Apology accepted...

'Just hope you don't fly too many A340's with that kind logic' was a dig at what I thought by your A,net name, you were..'an A340 pilot'! But we're past that...so I retract that flippant comment.

Good day dude!
 
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foxecho
Posts: 642
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:23 am

SAA201

Any Chance one of SP's will be donated to the SAA museum society like ZS-SAN will be?

Andrew
 
AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6937
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RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:04 pm

I see this post has inflamed a lot of passions. It's good, I love diverse discussions with points of view from all over the spectra and passionate people defending them. Nice tribute from all of us to this great plane. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there any other subsonic plane out there today that can fly just as fast and high as our stubby guy? I'd also like to hear from people who flew on it and their opinions on its performance

Cheers,

AR385
 
AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6937
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:13 pm

My favorite livery in my favorite plane. You gotta love that blu dolphin look.

 
AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6937
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: What About The 747SP?

Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:15 pm


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