Help Identify This Plane - BA Or JB?

Bruce · Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:35 pm

Here is a contrail that I shot:

http://www.bruceleibowitz.net/mystery_contrail.jpg

I was thinking this could be JetBlue, because it has a blue belly, blue engines, and white sides that sweep down under the tail. But is this really an A320?? It was over Nashville heading east in late afternoon. but Jetblue doesnt have any routes at that time near that area.

do you think it could be a Triple-7? Think of British Airways:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sid Star

BTW, this is an awesome photo IMO. But, it also has a blue belly, blue engines, and white sides that sweep around under the tail just foreward of the horiz. stab. - very similar to Jetblue.

I'm not saying it is this exact jet - mine doesnt have any red near the tail. I merely picked this shot to show the BA colors. Not all BA 777s have red like that you know.

Look at the underside of the wing on the BA. It appears to be two shades of grey. Mine also has two shades of grey! Also, and I dont know if this means anything, but check out the contrails on both. The right engine has a wider contrail on both!

If this is a 777, then I think it would have to be BA. And there are several flight possibilities - it could be coming out of DFW or IAH.

Now see a Jetblue:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jonathan Icasas

Look under the wing; I do not see two shades of grey. Also, most of the JetBlue planes seem to have blue tails and mine does not. Are there any JetBlue's with white tails? I also think the engines of mine are "fatter" than the slender Airbus engines.

What do you all think?

bruce

BOSugaDL · Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:40 pm

If you look at the picture the caption tells you that is is BA....and if you blow it up it says BA on the side

ei a330-200 · Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:46 pm

Of the two, it looks more like a Jet Blue jet. It doesn't have the red under the tail of BA. Its a difficult call. Good luck!

noelg · Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:50 pm

Bosugadl,

I think bruce was meaning us to link to the picture on his website (mystery_contrail.jpg).

Bruce,

It sure looks like a BA 777, you can see the outline of the Speedwing on the front of the aircraft, it has a HUGE APU at the back like a 777, you can just about make out the front of the Union Flag on the tail (just above the elevators), and the wing shape suggests a 777 rather than an A320 (no winglets, three sticky outy bits at the back of the wing rather than two and those HUGE 777 engines!!)

Noel.

Bruce · Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:53 pm

Bosugadl, I was referring to MY photo in the link. I know that the first thumbnail - # 300225 - is B.A.

EI A330, I realize mine does not have red anywhere. But not all B.A. 777s are painted like the example in the thumbnail. I chose that one after a quick search because I wanted one that showed the underside of a BA 777 - like a contrail shot. But it also would not be a Union Jack B.A. 777, because I think the red of the union jack sweeps down under the stabilizer and mine does not. Still, there are some B.A. 777 with more white.

bruce

Bruce · Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:55 pm

Noel, where do you see two instead of three wingl flap guides? In both the jetblue and BA pic there are 3 "sticky out bits" or wing flap guides...or am I missing something?

bruce

BOSugaDL · Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:00 pm

oh sorry Bruce...its very late, and I can't sleep thanks to the Yankees and Aaron Boone Breaking my heart and eveyone's heart in New England...I read the thread to fast, my bad

planemaker · Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:16 pm

I would agree with Noelg that the photo is of a BA 777. Aside from the large GE-90's which are not fully cowled (the reason for a good part of the glint off of the port engine) compared to the fully cowled IAE V2500's on a JetBlue A320, the fuselage width ratio to length would seem to confirm that it is a 777.

UTA_flyinghigh · Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:27 pm

Even in the thumbnail image, the "Koguty" (Poland) World Tail livery on a 777-236 is clearly visible ! LOL ! Big grin

Will

sevenair · Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:07 pm

It is the BA world tail with tartan. I remember this colorscheme being banned in certain parts of the USA because of the white crucifix that is on the design-it has connotations of the KKK aparently.

by188b · Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:09 pm

UTA!

read the thread properly!

Dazed767 · Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:18 pm

Definitely not an A320...look how big the wings are. BA777 is a good guess.

Justin

timz · Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:22 pm

"It is the BA world tail with tartan. I remember this colorscheme being banned in certain parts of the USA because of the white crucifix that is on the design-it has connotations of the KKK aparently."

Is this true? Who banned it? From where?

Jetmarc · Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:30 pm

Seems to me that its definitely not a jetBlue a/c since the forward section of the vertical stabilizer thats visible is white - all jetBlue tails have some dark blue or patterned design.... also, you can see the two different shades of gray under the wing just as BA has, jetBlue is a solid light gray...

motech722 · Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:11 am

It's not a JetBlue aircraft. The biggest give away should be the engines. They look nothing like the V2500s on JetBlue's aircraft. Also, the wings are clearly those of a B777. Near the front of the aircraft you can see a hint of red, which is where the normal livery of BA would be. I have to agree with others in here that it is a BA B777.

Take Care

DIJKKIJK · Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:15 am

It is a BA aircraft for the simple reason that the logo on the side says so!!!

JBLUA320 · Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:25 am

It is most definately a British Airways 777, and appears to have the Tartan World Tail.

One thing I can promise you is that there is no way in hell thats an A320!
JBLU

Bruce · Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:32 am

ok, do you think it could be this one?

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © STUART PRINCE

Are there any out there who have access to british airways' schedules/equipment? Can anyone tell me which aircraft operated BA2192 Dallas - Gatwick on 10/2/03? Also, which a/c operated #2024 on 10/2/03?

Consider that the Dallas flight is scheduled depart at 16.30 and this photo was taken at 17.42, and the straight-line distance from DFW - BNA is about 600mi. I dont know if a 777 can cover 600 miles of ground in about an hour. There is a flight out of IAH but at 16.20 - and IAH is 650 miles from BNA.

bruce

Lufthansa · Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:47 am

Geez there are some stupid ppl about that can't figure to click on the link!

Anyway, guys I would like to put forward that perhaps this is either a 772 of Varig, or, its 763.

cancidas · Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:05 am

your pic is definalty a 777, and most likely BA as well.

Ndebele · Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:18 am

That's what I call a United Airlines(!) B777!

RickB · Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:33 am

Lufthansa has a point it could just as easily be a Varig 777 as a BA 777 :-

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Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria

Wings are too big for an A320.

RickB

Bruce · Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:33 am

With BA having so few destinations in the USA west of Nashville that use a 777, it really should be easy to figure out which one it was.

bruce

Mexicana757 · Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:50 am

Hmmmm it does look like a BA 777. you must have a powerful lens to get a picture like that. Big thumbs up

Bruce · Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:17 am

not Varig, they have a bright blue tail which mine obviously does not.

It was a 300mm lens on a very clear day. I do have one other shot of it from a slightly different angle which may be a bit sharper but I doubt I could get that uploaded here because it's small......and most contrail shots here are done with huge lenses.

bruce

Bruce · Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:29 am

Is it just a coincidence that in the thumbnail in my original post and also in my photo the contrail from the left engine is more narrow than the right, or does it have something to do with the way the planes are being operated?

bruce

Olympus69 · Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:52 am

Until I read this thread I had not realized that there were so many stupid people posting messages in the forum. I'm referring to those who talk about tartan tails and BA titles. That photo is fully identified when you click on it - G-VIIR, a BA B777 flying from London to Antigua.

timz · Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:11 am

Even if we couldn't see the fin, VARIG has no scheduled routes anywhere near Nashville-- right?

srbmod · Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:27 am

Sevenair,

The "ban" of BA's a/c with the Benyhone tail is an urban legend. I had read that they were 'banned' from ATL, and I knew it wasn't true because I've seen the Benyhone tail on multiple occassions, and just saw one not two weeks ago. Here's proof of a Benyhone tail @ ATL:

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Photo © Frank J. Mirande

And CLT:

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Photo © Michael Modlin

And TPA:

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Photo © Brian Stevenson - SPOT THIS!

planesarecool · Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:29 am

"Are there any out there who have access to british airways' schedules/equipment? Can anyone tell me which aircraft operated BA2192 Dallas - Gatwick on 10/2/03? Also, which a/c operated #2024 on 10/2/03?

Consider that the Dallas flight is scheduled depart at 16.30 and this photo was taken at 17.42, and the straight-line distance from DFW - BNA is about 600mi. I dont know if a 777 can cover 600 miles of ground in about an hour. There is a flight out of IAH but at 16.20 - and IAH is 650 miles from BNA."

G-VIIA operated BA2024 from Houston on the 2nd October
G-VIIL operated BA2192 from Dallas on that day.

It certainly looks as if it could be the Waves of the City scheme, it has the kinda light blue effect to it:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan C. Umphrey

If you're looking at G-RAES or G-VIIU in the Delftblue Daybreak scheme, G-VIIU came from Washington Dulles that day and G-RAES went to Heathrow from Houston too so that is also a possible option, however i think that stops in Chicago.

Sorry i couldn't be of any more help

-Stephen

Bruce · Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:18 am

Interesting.... both are planes that I've photographed and also from IAH & DFW. Waves of the City has some colors which go under the tail. The other one has yellow, which could blend in with the white on my photo.

Here's mine:

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Photo © Bruce Leibowitz

Ok....here is the 2nd shot of it that I have. I did some re-sizing and some major digital enhancement. I am almost convinced it is G-VIIL but the one problem is I dont see any bright red on the tail as you see in the above thumbnail. here's the enhanced photo:

http://www.bruceleibowitz.net/g-viil.jpg

Note where I point out the wing flap guide & engine pylon. On the 777 they are slightly offset from each other as in the 777 thumbnail above & more clear in the one in my original post.

Also, we should know something very soon. I've got fboweb flight tracker up now showing BAW2192 and although it is only 141 miles out of Dallas it is headed straight for Tennesssee. give it another half hour..... Big grin

bruce

[Edited 2003-10-18 00:23:14]

richierich · Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:45 am

Sometimes I don't always know what the pictures are that people show, but in this case I am very confident.

(1) 100% definitely NOT JetBlue. (JetBlue = B6). JetBlue doesn't even have a plane with red on it, never mind all over the underbelly at the tail.

(2) I am 100% certain it is a British Airways plane. The cheatline is in the right place and you can read the name. Heck, you can almost read the tail number.

(3) I am 100% certain this is a Boeing 777. I am as sure of this as I am that the plane is actually airborne. The giant engines and slender tail give the Triple-7 away - what you can't tell is how big this aircraft actually is.

This was an easy one, guys.

Bruce · Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:20 am

wow! I tracked both flights, and believe it or not, both the Dallas and Houston flights got to Nashville at the same time and crossed paths, #2192 at FL330 and #2024 at FL370! 2024 went to the north of downtown, about 5 miles west of the airport, while 2192 went directly over BNA just as I had photographed on Oct. 2nd. check this out:

http://www.bruceleibowitz.net/baw2192.gif

See the red dot labeled BA2192? That spot is where the plane was but also that spot IS the nashville airport location. The trail of small red dots to the left is the path, so it is going northeast. Just as my photo.

what still bothers me, is that the plane left DFW at 16.41 and passed this area at 18.10 or approximately (according to the flight tracker). My photo was taken at 17.42 so I'm not sure how it would work.

But as we see, a BA 777 does indeed pass directly over BNA from Dallas.

bruce

CanadianNorth · Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:48 am

I dont believe it... you dumbasses!
-it looks like BA
-looks like 777
-blown up you can see the BA on it
-it even says there its a BA 777

CanadianNorth

ManchesterMAN · Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:59 am

I read this thread with utter disbelief - for gods sake guys read the info the photographer has kindly provided:

G-VIIR (S/N 29322) BA2157 from London Gatwick (EGKK) to Vc Bird International Airport Antigua (TAPA), over the Atlantic at FL380.

And to think some people on this site went to school Wink/being sarcastic

No offence,
John

JBLUA320 · Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:01 am

Sorry folks but this one is so unbelievably easy- I cant believe it took several hours and names such as Varig came up!

This is quite clearly a BA 777- enlarge the picture, click it- click it NOW! Notice the painted words on the foward of the aircraft that say "BRITISH AIRWAYS"... this, to me, seems to be a very encouraging sign that the aircraft is in fact from British Airways (mind the sarcasm)

C'mon guys- this one was easy!

JBLU

Midway2AirTran · Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:01 am

I would say it's BA777 too!

jetdeltamsy · Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:04 am

i think it's a ba777.

Guest · Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:05 am

CanadianNorth,

Common Senseless post=Darwin Award!

We're talking about the thumbnail picture...not the picture provided by airliners.net! Looks like we're not the dumbass now aren't we? No offense by last comment!

I Love

BOI

Bruce · Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:16 am

I hope you all realize that I'm not talking about the airliners.net photo thumbnail....I'm talking about MY photo which I posted on MY site.

Mine does not say "BRITISH AIRWAYS". But I think that I can make out that little logo that is over the forward door on the enhanced version I posted. These are things I did not realize a couple weeks ago. Along with the underside of the wings color and engine pylon/wing flap guide offset. It's just that the time of departure probably wouldn't allow that BA plane to be in the location I photographed but maybe they left early that day?!? or had a strong tailwind! LOL

bruce

Panman · Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:36 am

Okay to make it easy for all the Einstein's who seem to think it's the airliners.net thumbnail that is being referred to.

Scroll back up to the top, the first two lines of the post say

"Here is a contrail that I shot:

http://www.bruceleibowitz.net/mystery_contrail.jpg"

Now click on the frigging link and feel foolish.

The two airliners.net thumbnails are being used as a reference to compare to the photograph shown in the link in the second line of the original post.

Read, digest, comprehend FFS.

paNMan

AWspicious · Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:17 am

When they coined the phrase "It takes all kinds to make the world go around", I wonder if they predicted the A.net forums...? What really threw me is, some very respectable names have failed to read and understand the original post.
Bruce clearly provided a link to the photo he snapped. He then included two A.net photos to use as reference for his question. Soooo..... Readers were suppose to click on his link and decide if his photo was a BA 777 or not. The ironic thing about all this is, everyone agrees it is a BA 777. Problem is, many are confused about which photo is the BA 777.
And as for my opinion: I think it's a BA 777 with one of the world tails. Maybe Waves & Cranes, or Deltblue Daybreak, or one of the other lighter shaded tails.
No one could dispute the fact this website is entertaining! :-]

a.w.

AA777MIA · Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:25 am

Well, lets see, I clicked the photo, and what do you know!!! It says BRITISH AIRWAYS in BIG LETTERS! I would guess British Airways, and process of elimination tells me that it is not JetBlue since they do not fly the B777...

srbmod · Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:42 am

This is the photo in question:

At first, I thought it was a JetBlue A320, as it looks like there are the wingtip fences that are on an A320. Then I took a model of a 777 I have and holding it at as close to the same angle as the photo, compared several things, the wingtips do look similar in style to the 777, the canoe fairings on the wings match up location-wise, the squared-off end of the fuselage does appear to be a little rounded (an A320 would be much more rounded), and the angle shows a similar amount of the tail.

CanadianNorth · Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:09 am

atleast i won something eh... ok what other awards are left for me to win on this site...

CanadianNorth

AlexG · Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:35 am

My vote goes out to : BA 777, Rendevouz c/s.

Actually you can't tell the tail color!!! In my opinion - what looks white, is just some sunlight reflection on the underside of the horizontal stabilizers, just like it can be seen on the left hand flap actuators, too. And remember, that both right- and lefthand stabs are of the same size (at least they should... Big grin

).

If the image is blown up, you can actually see a very small hint of red on the nose, upside, just behind the cockpit. Okay, the blue part of the nose banner and the large "BRITISH AIRWAYS" titles are not visible, but that could be caused by reflection. Notice that the forward fuselage part seems to be darker than the aft part, could be a hint of the letters not reflecting as much sunlight like the rear, "clean" white body does.

Look yourself:

http://home.tiscali.de/grieser/bruce_1.jpg (entire airliner)
http://home.tiscali.de/grieser/bruce_3.jpg (nose)

I'd say BA 777, and while not exactly sure of the tail color scheme, I'd opt for Rendevouz, because all of the other, more colorful schemes would've included the APU colored alike!

Hope, my hosting of edited versions of your work is okay for you, Bruce!
Otherwise, PLZ give short note ...and get some longer lens! Big grin

AlexG

AlexG · Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:00 pm

Ooops... okay, first read, then post!! Innocent

It's 5 AM over here and I'm sorry, I must've overread the part that your flight had most possibly been tracked down to G-VIIL.

Think, you're right with that one. Didn't stumble over any pic of G-VIIL during my quick scan for a BA777 w/ non-colorful APU...

AlexG

FutureCEO · Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:12 pm

You guys all crack me up! I understood the post the first time I read it. I guess it just goes to show that people don't always read everything. Thanks for the laughs!

Smile

Olympus69 · Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:14 pm

If this was a Hollywood movie the photo would have been enlarged and digitally enhanced until the registration was legible Smile

sllevin · Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:21 pm

I'm gonna say it's not a B6 A320 for one reason: The engine nacelles appear too "short" and look a lot more like the engines off a 777.

Steve

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